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jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes

A tanky Paladin/wizard with Abraham the Dog has trivialized the game for me. Abraham gives -recovery penalty and it's a really significant boost. I think it turns a 35% penalty down to 22%, and a 55% to 32%. My dude is stronger and better than my entire team and does the bulk of the heavy lifting wrt damage.

I have a shield that gives +2 AR to everyone around me so with the Paladin AR aura (that also heals) everyone around my walking magical Sherman tank gets +3AR. Also I have that leap belt.

With the exception of my ranger, my team is mostly useless/redundant now. Wizard, after the empowered spell, is really not very impressive. But gently caress that empowered spell is delightful, seeing the dozen or so 25s and 30s pop up on/around a boss is delicious. I believe the flames of devotion buff to attacks after using it applies too.

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Vermain
Sep 5, 2006




jokes posted:

A tanky Paladin/wizard with Abraham the Dog has trivialized the game for me.

Fighter/Wizard is another solid-rear end combination. Llengrath's + Spirit Shield with Full Plate makes you take next to no damage against the vast majority of attacks in the game, and all of the various tools Fighter has to boost its own hit percentage means that you can win most wars of attrition easily and make your Empowered spells even more guaranteed.

Khizan
Jul 30, 2013


bewilderment posted:

Xoti: Pure priest is the easiest path, monk and priest don't really synergise. Pure monk is fine if you're a priest.

Right now a priest is absolutely unnecessary and monk is loving crazy powerful. Pure monk is definitely the power pick here, imo.

GrandpaPants
Feb 13, 2006

Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!

Khizan posted:

Right now a priest is absolutely unnecessary and monk is loving crazy powerful. Pure monk is definitely the power pick here, imo.

Yeah honestly I wish I had make Xoti a monk, since Pallegina with Lay on Hands/that healing song/ancient memory/zealous endurance or Tekehu with Moonwell or Maia with scrolls does all the healing you'd probably ever need. Devotions of the Faithful is a really good spell, but it is just a single buff.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006




I think the big problem with Priests is that their really good buffs are all things you want to use every encounter at the start, which means your Priest is sitting there doing nothing for 12 seconds aside from chain casting buffs and then largely autoattacking due to a lack of remaining spellcasts (and, to be frank, a lack of strongly impactful spells to cast outside of said powerful buffs). They kinda just feel like buffbots.

Mymla
Aug 12, 2010


Xoti has a lvl 1 spell that removes an enemy from existence. It's good.

piano chimp
Feb 2, 2008

ye


Antares posted:

I did pure Ascendant and I didn't find the subclass or high level skillls to be that impactful. Whisper of Treason and Ringleader are your staples, other than that just casting an empowered ectopsychic echo on Eder at the start of the fight and have him charge the furthest thing he can see is a safe bet. Most of the other spells are very weak for their focus/time cost (3s cast + 4s recovery for a 6s stun??) or have significant drawbacks (no loot).

If you're referring to detonate and disintegrate: good news, these spells don't destroy loot! You can cast empowered disintegrate at will and watch things melt. I used both extensively in my Ascendant/Ghost Heart run and didn't lose anything.

I think the rumour that these spells destroyed loot came from the PoE1 beta but I don't think it's been true for a long time.

Entropy238
Oct 21, 2010



Fallen Rib

I'm still on my first playthrough and I've found pure Wizards (Aloth) to be really unimpressive so far. Maybe I'm still in the PoE 1 frame of mind? I've heard evokers are good.

Contrary to what a few people have said I've still found priests (Xoti) to be great. Devotions for the Faithful and Dire Blessing are as amazing as ever as force multipliers. Healing seems strong. Xoti's nuke is quite good too.

Pallegina as a Paladin/Fighter is insanely good. Dual wield with Charge and Flames of Devotion and you've got full attacks for days.

Went for Beckoner as my PC and, while strong, I loving hate how small the summons are. They look really stupid. I should have gone with my gut and went for Troubadour.

Mymla
Aug 12, 2010


piano chimp posted:

If you're referring to detonate and disintegrate: good news, these spells don't destroy loot! You can cast empowered disintegrate at will and watch things melt. I used both extensively in my Ascendant/Ghost Heart run and didn't lose anything.

I think the rumour that these spells destroyed loot came from the PoE1 beta but I don't think it's been true for a long time.

The rumour probably comes from the fact that disintegrate did destroy loot in D&D.

GrandpaPants
Feb 13, 2006

Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!

Mymla posted:

The rumour probably comes from the fact that disintegrate did destroy loot in D&D.

And Arcanum, if I recall.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006




Entropy238 posted:

I'm still on my first playthrough and I've found pure Wizards (Aloth) to be really unimpressive so far. Maybe I'm still in the PoE 1 frame of mind?

Probably. Stuff like Curse of Blackened Sight isn't comparable to its PoE1 incarnation due to the general decrease in effectiveness of per encounter debuffs. CC/debuff spells are useful for mitigating incoming damage and for countering certain monsters, but damage spells are now actually very damaging and quite worthwhile. An Empowered Minoletta's Bounding/Concussive Missiles will take out half a group easily.

DoubleDonut
Oct 22, 2010



Fallen Rib

I played as a priest of eothas in the first game but this

Vermain posted:

I think the big problem with Priests is that their really good buffs are all things you want to use every encounter at the start, which means your Priest is sitting there doing nothing for 12 seconds aside from chain casting buffs and then largely autoattacking due to a lack of remaining spellcasts (and, to be frank, a lack of strongly impactful spells to cast outside of said powerful buffs). They kinda just feel like buffbots.

is the main thing that's making me want to change, having played up to the start of Neketaka. I'll figure out what I want eventually (Cipher/Rogue seems like it might be cool, even if Ydwen can already do that), it's just tough, especially with so many more choices than the first game. The fact that I don't feel the need to exile anyone from my main party in this one (which is why I was a priest in the first game) means that I don't have any immediately obvious choices, either.

Snicker-Snack
Jul 2, 2010


Entropy238 posted:

I'm still on my first playthrough and I've found pure Wizards (Aloth) to be really unimpressive so far. Maybe I'm still in the PoE 1 frame of mind? I've heard evokers are good.

I haven't tried crowd control wizards (heard the terrify cc is amazing however), but I found buffing martial wizards to be crap and nuking wizards to be insane. You can trivialize any fight with the right empowered spells and there's no reason not to rest, but even without empowers you can easily nuke your way to victory as soon as you get the higher level spells because you have plenty of redundant damage. Otoh if you inted to use martial wizards to do the bulk of your damage you now often have to use an entire level of spells to mainain one buff throughout the longer fights. Summoned weapons are complete trash as well, so that's the damage part of martial wizards gone.

FuzzySlippers
Feb 6, 2009



Which build do people like for Rekke? Both multiclass seem kinda odd. What does fighter on top of another melee class get you?

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...


Multiclass priest might be decent if you go for the 2nd level summoned weapons. Those get some of the highest damage per hit of anything in the game, and apparently benefit from all gear that boosts a specific weapon type. So you can get -25% attack speed, hit to crit, accuracy, and all kinds of other goodies from various pieces of equipment.

Considering the only priest spell you really need is devotions for the faithful, and that's what one of the best spells in the game, and you can use some of the best weapons in the game from very early, multiclass priest really doesn't look that bad, just not in line with how overpowered a lot of the other choices in the game are.

Priests do need help, though. I think they need a lot more fast casting spells, and the slower casts need a much bigger impact. And the bonus spells really need a rework. Priests of Wael are the clear winners, with loads of great defensive tools. Berath gives the spiritual greatsword, which is something that could justify the pick. Skaen looks acceptable with the off-class rogue skills. I'm not sure whether Magran's fire spells add that much, but maybe they're okay, and priests of Eothas just get screwed with a bonus list that adds nothing to the class at all. Originally they got druid elemental spells, and that was much more interesting and much cooler.

Entropy238
Oct 21, 2010



Fallen Rib

Vermain posted:

Probably. Stuff like Curse of Blackened Sight isn't comparable to its PoE1 incarnation due to the general decrease in effectiveness of per encounter debuffs. CC/debuff spells are useful for mitigating incoming damage and for countering certain monsters, but damage spells are now actually very damaging and quite worthwhile. An Empowered Minoletta's Bounding/Concussive Missiles will take out half a group easily.

Yeah, thatís definitely the impression Iím getting. Maybe some of the higher level CC will be more effective.

On a different note, the fact that talents and abilities now share the same resource pool means that to play ~*optimally*~ thereís going to be a lot of respeccing as low level abilities get made redundant by higher level abilities. On my Beckoner the skeleton and ghost chants are now more or less completely superfluous so I should really take those points and invest them in passives, if I was bothered.

Ogres seem to be doing work but am I right in saying that they now have friendly fire?

Canít wait to get the dragon summon at the end but I know itís going to look stupid with Beckoner

Xerophyte
Mar 17, 2008

This space intentionally left blank


That wizard spell guide made me want to write one for Druids, so I did. I played Fury for most of the game so my knowledge of the restoration spells is limited.

In general: Druids are the least subtle of the caster classes. You cast giant area damage spells, you heal your friends, you summon buddies. You are better at the first two things than anyone else, just don't expect nuance and precision. Your summons all take 6 seconds to cast which generally sucks, so stick to quickslot summons if you need a quick personal meatshield and leave serious summoning to Chanters who are actually good at it. You can shapeshift into a form that's better at punching, which is very useful if you multiclass with something melee and less useful as a pure druid.

As a pure druid expect to be a backliner most of the time. Focus on int, might and perception.

For the kits:
If you pick Fury, then you don't get to heal but you're the best in the game at blowing things up with giant spells and you can shapeshift into a form with a chain lightning range attack and even more spellpower.
If you go Lifegiver, then you don't summon buddies but you're the best in the game at healing. This is generally more healing than you need, but you're as good as a base druid at blowing things up and summons suck so it's fine if it floats your boat.
If you choose Shifter then you will mostly buff up a bit to better were-punch people, but you're as good a caster as a base druid outside of shifts if you want to.
If you're Tekehu then you're basically a more convenient base druid who has no summon spell trap picks and half your nukes as foe-only.

Notable spells:

Level 1
Sunbeam: Small area blind and damage. Good first pick.
Charm Beasts: Area charm. Stronger than Whispers of Treason, but beast only. Still very useful.
Dancing Bolts: Foe-only medium area damage. Nice, easy to use early game filler but Sunbeam is better if you can aim it.

Level 2
The Moon's Light: A big beefy healing zone. Smaller but stronger version of the priest level 3 consecrated ground.
Hold Beast: Area paralyze for 20s. Absolutely fantastic disable when applicable, but beast only.
Autumn's Decay: Cone damage and dot. Very good damage for the level but cone is somewhat annoying to aim safely.
Insect Swarm: Foe-only anti concentration and OK damage aura. Targets fortitude which is convenient.

Level 3
Returning Storm: Foe-only periodic stun and damage. Hits a single random target so good when fighting a single mook or small group, but doesn't scale that well.
Twin Stones: Strong area damage in tight quarters, can potentially hit with 2-4 different projectiles so more damage than it seems. Ideally need to hit an obstacle so hard to aim for effect.
Infestation of Maggots: Foe-only large area dot, targets fortitude. Good damage on paper but requires targets to already be injured which really limits it.
Nature's Balm: Quick-casting Robust buff, the top tier Constitution inspiration. Heals over time and gives armor, very strong.

Level 4
Moonwell: Area healing and defense buffs. Less healing than The Moon's Light, but still useful and can be layered with it.
Hail Storm: Large area freeze/crush damage. Easy to aim, always likely to penetrate and a good standard opener from stealth.
Overwhelming Wave: Wide line crush and stun. Good, but hard to aim safely for non-Tekehus.
Form of the Delemgan: Area buff to some defenses, and most importantly makes your team immune to dex afflictions like paralyze and hobbled. This is situationally very useful.

Level 5
Relentless Storm: Contender for overall best spell in the game. Foe only pulsing aoe damage and stun. Empowered Relentless Storm on a high int Fury wins 95% of fights outright.
Embrace of the Earth Talon: Small area paralyze and damage. Similar to the 6th level wizard Gaze of the Adragan, but lasts for longer, does damage and hits a smaller area. Mostly useful vs stun immunes, since it competes with Relentless Storm.

Level 6
Venombloom: Persistent area damage and frighten, targeting Will which is nice. A better version Nature's Terror from last level.
Sunlance: Relatively strong single target damage. Targets deflection, which can be good and can be bad.

Level 7
Rusted Armor: Probably the worst armor rating debuff in the game. Reducing armor rating is strong enough that you should still take it, at least if no other character in your party has the effect.
Call to the Primordials: Pretty much the only summon spell worth taking, since it summons 3 blockers that can random good defenses.
Nature's Bounty: Give everyone in the party healing potions that also buff with 20% action speed. It sounds pretty good, but playing Fury I never actually got to use it.
Weather the Storm: Armor for all the elemental effects. Situational but very good vs, say, things that breathe fire or cold for some reason.

Level 8
Entropy: Force crits on a target. Very strong and fills the druid's murder-the-single-important-target niche which is otherwise empty, but needs coordination with the party to really shine.
Regenerate: It's a revive, so it probably comes in handy.

Level 9
Great Maelstrom: The largest and strongest area damage spell in the game. Hits 4 different damage types so enemies are very unlikely to resist well and does maybe 1000-2000 total damage over its duration. One cast is sufficiently strong to kill any enemy you encounter in the game. Literally the only challenge is to not stand in the red circle or otherwise suicide in the 10 or so seconds it takes for everything else to die.
Pollen Patch: It's a precastable revive zone. Not bad, but you could've just cast Great Maelstrom and won the fight.

tl;dr: Empower Relentless Storm at the start of fights to win, until you can empower Great Maelstrom and win fights with a precast instead.

Xerophyte fucked around with this message at May 22, 2018 around 08:26

GrandpaPants
Feb 13, 2006

Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!

FuzzySlippers posted:

What does fighter on top of another melee class get you?

Off the top of my head, constant recovery, armored grace, weapon specialization, the stances, and charge.

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007

Let me sing you a song


Taco Defender

Vermain posted:

I think the big problem with Priests is that their really good buffs are all things you want to use every encounter at the start, which means your Priest is sitting there doing nothing for 12 seconds aside from chain casting buffs and then largely autoattacking due to a lack of remaining spellcasts (and, to be frank, a lack of strongly impactful spells to cast outside of said powerful buffs). They kinda just feel like buffbots.

Wait until Shining Beacon, Pillar of Holy Fire, Cleansing Flame, and then Symbol.

Until some kinda of difficulty change happens I'm pretty sure every class can murder screens.

Tenzarin fucked around with this message at May 22, 2018 around 08:44

Avalerion
Oct 19, 2012


Thatís just how priests were in the first game too so no big surprise there. Durance in poe1 just used one/two spells, his per encounters, then shot things for me.

Nasgate
Jun 7, 2011


I think it would go a long way if you could cast buffs as priest before combat starts. idk if you could make them really loud, or force you to unsneak to balance it.

Mymla
Aug 12, 2010


Nasgate posted:

I think it would go a long way if you could cast buffs as priest before combat starts. idk if you could make them really loud, or force you to unsneak to balance it.

"No prebuffing" is a major selling point of this game compared to older RPGs.

GrandpaPants
Feb 13, 2006

Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!

Mymla posted:

"No prebuffing" is a major selling point of this game compared to older RPGs.

I think I just got triggered thinking about playing a Cleric in NWN2. Oh god it took forever to get ready for combat but I was such a beast afterwards!

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Furism
Feb 21, 2006

Live long and headbang


Don't have time to play this as much as I wish I could (my party is around level 12-13) but I think I've decided I don't really like the changes to Afflictions/Inspirations. Now it's just a game of saving your inspirations (and making sure that your party is designed around having enough of them, and that's a pain in the rear end so far) for when you're hit with a matching affliction. I also miss the super duper big CC crits where your Delayed Motion or Blind or whatever lasts like 30 seconds. I don't like the move to per encounter either, I liked saving up my spells for big fights (especially CC spells). Made them more meaningful. And they made Cipher bad now that they have very limited spells to choose from - one thing I loved in PoE1 ciphers was the large amount of spells you had, and could choose the perfect one depending on the situation. Now that's pretty much gone.

Maybe it's the 500 hours of PoE1 talking but I don't think. I also felt that the per rest and limited camping supplies made the game indirectly more tactical (I know some people disagree with this and might roll their eyes or even snort at this ; but that is my educated opinion).

I do like the change from DR to Pen though.

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