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SoldadoDeTone
Apr 20, 2006

Hold on tight!

Has anyone tried a Soul Blade/Devoted? I'm toying with trying it as my first character. Note: I play on Hard, not PoTD because I'm a giant baby who hates losing.

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Dog Kisser
Mar 30, 2005

But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.


Oh boy, Monk/Cipher here I come. Been playing PoE as a monk and enjoying it even though I'm incredibly fragile. Threw Ender's second chance armor on to give a little more survivability, and it's working pretty well. Dying bumps you to 10 wounds, which is nice if a little... Grim.

Eraflure
Oct 12, 2012


Probably going for a paladin/cipher.

Do you still have to minmax your mechanics to find all hidden treasures/open every lock in Deadfire?

adamarama
Mar 20, 2009


Milky Moor posted:

How's the writing in PoE2? PoE's merciless mountains of exposition and worldbuilding history got grating barely an hour or two into the game. I was much more a fan of Tyranny. Any indication as to how PoE2 is turning out?
Cheers. I'm definitely going melee so yeah, might just go straight beguiler/rogue.

I'm trying to make the most of the multiclass system so any advice in general is appreciated. Definitely going to go paladin/chanter on pallegina. Eder might work as an unbroken/Streetfighter. I'm not sure about xoti as priest/monk, might be a bit squishy?

ChrisBTY
Mar 29, 2012

this glorious monument


Avalerion posted:

You start at level one and get to re-pick everything. Should put that in the OP - or maybe even the thread title.

So nothing except story stuff really transfers?
Good to know.

Octo1
May 7, 2009


adamarama posted:

Im gonna make my PC a rogue/cipher. I'm gonna go with beguiler but what rogue subclass works best? Stealth seems poor so assassin is out. And the trickster downside seems too much. Street fighter seems ok? Am I missing anything?

Street Fighter is the worst of the bunch for beguilers.

I tried assassin/beguiler in the beta and it was very strong, one of the strongest builds I tried. The Assassinate bonus gives you (among other things) +25 accuracy, and it can apply to non-weapon abilities including Cipher deception powers. If you do decide to go with an assassin/cipher (or any other spellcaster) multiclass, then keep in mind that you need very high Dex and Int (around 18 in both) in order finish casting spells before the invisibility from Smoke Veil runs out.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


Dog Kisser posted:

Oh boy, Monk/Cipher here I come. Been playing PoE as a monk and enjoying it even though I'm incredibly fragile. Threw Ender's second chance armor on to give a little more survivability, and it's working pretty well. Dying bumps you to 10 wounds, which is nice if a little... Grim.

If you're playing a Monk, it's generally advisable to wear full plate.

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Could you imagine the step?
It's genius!


One thing I really wish I knew for Deadfire is what consistutes a high stat. You could put all 20 of your points on your MC into, say Metaphysics, but it's unclear whether there'd ever be a check that high, so you'd be at risk of completely wasting them. Of course, at the other end, if you spread them around, you run the risk of being unable to pass any checks in the latter half of the game, if they've balanced on the assumption people will have specialised...

frajaq posted:

I'm reading some of the abilities from Cohh's stream and...

they nerfed Paladin auras hard?????

I think with the upgrades, whichever one you upgrade becomes significantly better than the PoE1 version, but the other one is weaker, yeah.

CottonWolf fucked around with this message at May 6, 2018 around 14:19

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!

Biscuit Hider

CottonWolf posted:

One thing I really wish I knew for Deadfire is what consistutes a high stat. You could put all 20 of your points on your MC into, say Metaphysics, but it's unclear whether there'd ever be a check that high, so you'd be at risk of completely wasting them. Of course, at the other end, if you spread them around, you run the risk of being unable to pass any checks in the latter half of the game, if they've balanced on the assumption people will have specialised...


I think with the upgrades, whichever one you upgrade becomes significantly better than the PoE1 version, but the other one is weaker, yeah.

At least from the beta files, 19 perception was the highest per you needed to spot all traps in the game. Also, everything is capped at 35 now max possible with buffs.

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Could you imagine the step?
It's genius!


Hieronymous Alloy posted:

At least from the beta files, 19 perception was the highest per you needed to spot all traps in the game. Also, everything is capped at 35 now max possible with buffs.

Oh, I meant the passive skills, bad wording on my part.

Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Greetings from Asbury Park

I really like the sound design or whatever you call it in this game.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!

Biscuit Hider

CottonWolf posted:

Oh, I meant the passive skills, bad wording on my part.

ok, more detail then, based on beta info: (bit of a repost for thread regulars):

From some data mining of the beta code that people did upthread (apparently max trap perception and max trap mechanics are moddable values)



the max perception you apparently need to catch all traps is 19. the max Mechanics you need to disarm the best trap appears to be 12.

The max lore skill you need to read all scrolls in the beta is 15. There don't appear to be any skill-locked potions or explosives, just scrolls and traps.


The "party assist" thresholds (i.e., the minimum number of points you need in the rest of the party to get an additional bonus point in your own skill check) are 4, 7, 11, 16, and 22 for , +2, +3, +4, +5, and +6 respectively. Note that that's total points in the rest of the party, not total points in the whole party -- the person making the check doesn't count to that total. Party assist only counts for in-dialogue or in-text-minigame checks, not for in-combat or other performance checks.

You can pretty easily make sure someone in the party covers all the active skills, because there are only seven of them, but the passives are a little harder to get complete coverage. Some of them have some synergies too -- for example sleight of hand guy probably also wants some stealth, for reverse pickpocketing.

Also, unless it changes with a patch, Alchemy is *extremely* strong at high levels.

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Could you imagine the step?
It's genius!


Hieronymous Alloy posted:

ok, more detail then, based on beta info: (bit of a repost for thread regulars):

From some data mining of the beta code that people did upthread (apparently max trap perception and max trap mechanics are moddable values)



the max perception you apparently need to catch all traps is 19. the max Mechanics you need to disarm the best trap appears to be 12.

The max lore skill you need to read all scrolls in the beta is 15. There don't appear to be any skill-locked potions or explosives, just scrolls and traps.


The "party assist" thresholds (i.e., the minimum number of points you need in the rest of the party to get an additional bonus point in your own skill check) are 4, 7, 11, 16, and 22 for , +2, +3, +4, +5, and +6 respectively. Note that that's total points in the rest of the party, not total points in the whole party -- the person making the check doesn't count to that total. Party assist only counts for in-dialogue or in-text-minigame checks, not for in-combat or other performance checks.

You can pretty easily make sure someone in the party covers all the active skills, because there are only seven of them, but the passives are a little harder to get complete coverage. Some of them have some synergies too -- for example sleight of hand guy probably also wants some stealth, for reverse pickpocketing.

Also, unless it changes with a patch, Alchemy is *extremely* strong at high levels.

Cheers!

Wizard Styles
Aug 6, 2014

level 15 disillusionist


Eraflure posted:

Do you still have to minmax your mechanics to find all hidden treasures/open every lock in Deadfire?
As Hieronymous said, finding traps and hidden things uses Perception now and disarming traps and opening locks still uses Mechanics. Judging by the beta, playing without a character with high Mechanics is definitely possible but annoying.

CottonWolf posted:

I think with the upgrades, whichever one you upgrade becomes significantly better than the PoE1 version, but the other one is weaker, yeah.
The upgrade should just affect all of the auras. Having upgrades to a modal only affect one of the modal choices is just really bizarre design to me.

Vargs
Mar 27, 2010



TEENAGE WITCH posted:



wew lad pt.2

You can tell this was written by the same person as Grieving Mother's dialogue because it is long and boring and I won't read it.

willing to settle
Apr 13, 2011


Think I'm going to have to go pure cipher and be sub-optimal after all. Helwalker does seem like a neat multiclass but it looks to me like many of these vaunted crit synergies are only going to kick in in the level 16-20 range. I've always hated building characters to be able to finally Be The Best right at the end of the game, and I'm not sure swift flurries is enough to put up with severely delaying most of your cool cipher powers until then.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!

Biscuit Hider

willing to settle posted:

Think I'm going to have to go pure cipher and be sub-optimal after all. Helwalker does seem like a neat multiclass but it looks to me like many of these vaunted crit synergies are only going to kick in in the level 16-20 range. I've always hated building characters to be able to finally Be The Best right at the end of the game, and I'm not sure swift flurries is enough to put up with severely delaying most of your cool cipher powers until then.

There's also a sorta weird thing going on right now where guns, on crits, do less damage than they do on normal hits, because the "blunted criticals" effect reduces crit damage by more than the base crit bonus increases it ( they're the same numerical value, .25, but [ (1 X 1.25) X .75 = .93, not 1], so gun criticals end up doing 7% less damage than normal hits). So I'm not sure how valid a gun-based, crit-build cipher is going to be, unless that's something they fix in an early patch.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...


I知 ridiculously excited for this. I haven稚 really had time to play games in a few months and I値l probably only be able to scrape together a few hours a week to play this one hundred hour game. But I知 still super pumped.

I知 totally the multiclass type of player. I like to play characters that deal with things with a huge bag of tricks and have just the right move for every situation, even if they aren稚 overtly the most powerful. My favorite classes in the bg games are fighter/mage and fighter/mage/thief. But I知 not sure I知 that into multiclassing in this, at least at first. It seems like single class is actually going to end up more versatile than multi in a number of cases, while multiclasses are going to double down on a synergy. Since I知 probably going to play this game 8,000 times, I値l likely end up going for a bunch of different things, but what I知 most interested in is:

Pure monk (crit build with a spear)
pure wizard (melee)
chanter/paladin
chanter/rogue (riposte skald)
cipher/monk
rogue/priest (I.33 sword and buckler Walpurga cosplay)

etc. holy poo poo I知 going to have the worst restartitis ever with this aren稚 I

Walrus Pete
Apr 16, 2008

Yo ho?


Hieronymous Alloy posted:

There's also a sorta weird thing going on right now where guns, on crits, do less damage than they do on normal hits, because the "blunted criticals" effect reduces crit damage by more than the base crit bonus increases it ( they're the same numerical value, .25, but [ (1 X 1.25) X .75 = .93, not 1], so gun criticals end up doing 7% less damage than normal hits). So I'm not sure how valid a gun-based, crit-build cipher is going to be, unless that's something they fix in an early patch.

So what you're saying is I should use an arbalest (and maybe a war bow after the alpha strike) for my ranger/rogue build?

Octo1
May 7, 2009


Walrus Pete posted:

So what you're saying is I should use an arbalest (and maybe a war bow after the alpha strike) for my ranger/rogue build?

Arbalests also have blunted criticals.

Walrus Pete
Apr 16, 2008

Yo ho?


Octo1 posted:

Arbalests also have blunted criticals.

Enigmatic Cakelord
Jun 16, 2006

ASARI EYEBROWS



So, there watching Cohh and then a streamer that used a preset world state, it appears there may be some bugs with importing saves. Is this a known issue, rope kid?

First thing I noticed is, as I mentioned before, that Eder joined the Night Market instead of becoming mayor of Dyrford in Cohh's game. And then (reactivity spoiler for Deadfire) a streamer had the orlan child on her ship while using a preset world state, but Cohh did not. Even though he imported a save where he kept the baby while leaving Sun-in-Shadow.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!

Biscuit Hider


Eraflure
Oct 12, 2012


Speaking of pistols, how do they work when paired with a melee weapon? Do you only use the sword when you're in melee range? Do you still benefit from 2h weapon style bonuses?

En Garde Motherfuckers
Apr 28, 2009

Hey. Is it just me, or do my balls itch?

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

ok, more detail then, based on beta info: (bit of a repost for thread regulars):

From some data mining of the beta code that people did upthread (apparently max trap perception and max trap mechanics are moddable values)



the max perception you apparently need to catch all traps is 19. the max Mechanics you need to disarm the best trap appears to be 12.

The max lore skill you need to read all scrolls in the beta is 15. There don't appear to be any skill-locked potions or explosives, just scrolls and traps.


The "party assist" thresholds (i.e., the minimum number of points you need in the rest of the party to get an additional bonus point in your own skill check) are 4, 7, 11, 16, and 22 for , +2, +3, +4, +5, and +6 respectively. Note that that's total points in the rest of the party, not total points in the whole party -- the person making the check doesn't count to that total. Party assist only counts for in-dialogue or in-text-minigame checks, not for in-combat or other performance checks.

You can pretty easily make sure someone in the party covers all the active skills, because there are only seven of them, but the passives are a little harder to get complete coverage. Some of them have some synergies too -- for example sleight of hand guy probably also wants some stealth, for reverse pickpocketing.

Also, unless it changes with a patch, Alchemy is *extremely* strong at high levels.

What I'm curious about is if they specify maximum values (and, presumably, minimum values) with the expectation that trap/hidden stuff difficulty scales with level, like combat encounters are supposed to if you turn on the option- and whether this also applies to skill checks in dialogue as well.

Level scaling options are still in, right?

GrandpaPants
Feb 13, 2006

Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!

Why do guns and whatnot even have blunted criticals? They already have an accuracy penalty to account for the veil piercing (which doesn't end up being that great of an attribute anyway) and they all require reloading. Like even from a flavor perspective, I imagine getting shot in the head with a gun isn't any less painful than getting shot with an arrow?

Samara
Jan 6, 2011

quote:

Deposited $150 at Mt Gox to try this Bitcoin thing out.

Stolen 6 days later. Really enjoyed my time there.

Helpful? Please donate - being this retarded ain't cheap!

Samara Investments
Basement Suite #101
Mom's House, Hometown FL
USAAA+

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Significantly easier to sit through due to full VA for dialogue.

I値l never play another RPG unless it has full VA

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!

Biscuit Hider

GrandpaPants posted:

Why do guns and whatnot even have blunted criticals? They already have an accuracy penalty to account for the veil piercing (which doesn't end up being that great of an attribute anyway) and they all require reloading. Like even from a flavor perspective, I imagine getting shot in the head with a gun isn't any less painful than getting shot with an arrow?

I could be wrong but I believe the idea is thst in the first game they didnt want people stacking bonuses on things with very high single shot base damage and oneshotting enemies.

willing to settle
Apr 13, 2011


Hieronymous Alloy posted:

There's also a sorta weird thing going on right now where guns, on crits, do less damage than they do on normal hits, because the "blunted criticals" effect reduces crit damage by more than the base crit bonus increases it ( they're the same numerical value, .25, but [ (1 X 1.25) X .75 = .93, not 1], so gun criticals end up doing 7% less damage than normal hits). So I'm not sure how valid a gun-based, crit-build cipher is going to be, unless that's something they fix in an early patch.

Hmm, well that sucks. These values are relatively easy to change through xml modding though right? And the "intended" effect is for guns to do the same damage on crits as hits?

En Garde Motherfuckers
Apr 28, 2009

Hey. Is it just me, or do my balls itch?

Eraflure posted:

Speaking of pistols, how do they work when paired with a melee weapon? Do you only use the sword when you're in melee range? Do you still benefit from 2h weapon style bonuses?

iirc you get the dual wielding speed bonuses, but only use the sword in melee (or the pistol at range, duh) and for some reason always reload the pistol before striking? So, if you pop off a shot then close to melee you still have to reload before you swing the sword. Also I don't think you use both weapons for full attack actions, not sure though

Wizard Styles
Aug 6, 2014

level 15 disillusionist


Heithinn Grasida posted:

I知 totally the multiclass type of player. I like to play characters that deal with things with a huge bag of tricks and have just the right move for every situation, even if they aren稚 overtly the most powerful.
It should be said that that's not really how a lot of multiclasses work out in Deadfire. This is judging by the beta, which means level 6-8, but there are a few issues that prevent multiclass characters from being those toolbox characters:
You get one ability point per level, two if you reach a new Power Level. That isn't a lot for any character and means only the formerly Vancian caster classes really end up with a broad array of active abilities because they get a free spell per power level or have access to Grimoires. And even they still have spell slots sorted by Power Level (instead of using a shared resource pool for everything like the other classes). The Rogue's Trickster subclass also gets an extra active ability per Power Level (and is fun although not very powerful) but that's it iirc.
A multiclass character has to spread those ability points between at least two class resources. More if you're playing a multiclassed Monk (needs abilities using both Wounds and Mortification) or Chanter (needs Phrases and Invocations). So they naturally end up with less abilities for each of their resource pools, meaning they get to make less choices about how to spend them.
You also generally want to upgrade abilities you've picked, so I don't really expect things to open up all that much later in the game.

Eraflure
Oct 12, 2012


En Garde Motherfuckers posted:

iirc you get the dual wielding speed bonuses, but only use the sword in melee (or the pistol at range, duh) and for some reason always reload the pistol before striking? So, if you pop off a shot then close to melee you still have to reload before you swing the sword. Also I don't think you use both weapons for full attack actions, not sure though

That actually sounds decent. Pistol and sword it is then!

drat I'm so stoked for this game

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!

Biscuit Hider

willing to settle posted:

Hmm, well that sucks. These values are relatively easy to change through xml modding though right? And the "intended" effect is for guns to do the same damage on crits as hits?

I think?

Though the actual damage formula is more complex because just about everything (except I think Might) uses additive multipliers (ie., 25%+25% =50%, not 1.25*1.25) so the above is a simplification of the problem.

Savy Saracen salad
Oct 15, 2013


Can't wait to play as a cutthroat pirate. In my first play through I will plunder the seas. No ship will be safe from my corsairs.

Hannibal Rex
Feb 13, 2010


Has there been anything concrete about how the Scavenger Hunt thingy will be integrated with GOG? I'm happy to still throw a pre-order in Obsidian's direction, despite not having time to play the game for another couple of months or so, but I don't want to feel like I've missed out on something when I do.

Gorelab
Dec 26, 2006


Captain Oblivious posted:

If you're playing a Monk, it's generally advisable to wear full plate.

Plate feels like it'd be terrible on monks unless you're going full on straight tank for them. It slows them down a bunch which gets rid of a good strength and means you get less wounds which means less punch powers.

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.


I like medium armor on monks, usually.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me


En Garde Motherfuckers posted:

iirc you get the dual wielding speed bonuses, but only use the sword in melee (or the pistol at range, duh) and for some reason always reload the pistol before striking? So, if you pop off a shot then close to melee you still have to reload before you swing the sword. Also I don't think you use both weapons for full attack actions, not sure though

I just tried this last night, and it seems that in melee you exclusively use the sword, without reloading the pistol. And no, you don't use both for full attack actions. But I also couldn't get my rogue to consistently use the ranged weapon first instead of just closing for melee.

Apraxin
Feb 22, 2006

General-Admiral

Does the build info we have so far make it seem like a fighter/cipher hybrid is viable, at least below PoTD? The aesthetics of a Blackjacket dumping pistols into the enemy before flinging spells off and running in with a sword is appealing, but I'm not good enough at reading the figures to determine if it's a viable build (or eben what cipher sub-class would pair best).

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GuyUpNorth
Apr 29, 2014

Witty phrases on random basis

Quick glance through the new thread makes it look that I am not the only person who is multiclassing Cipher. Are there any serious downsides to Cipher/Darcozzi as beefier frontline PC?

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