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wiegieman posted:Games are entertainment. If you forget that, and fail to deliver on an exciting good time, your product won't perform. I realize that. But even in entertainment you can have a slow start. The author Neil Stephenson is a great example. It sometimes takes 100 pages (or more... I'm looking at you Anathem) before you get to the good stuff. But the stuff is only good because it took a while to set up properly. I still love Terry Pratchett books, which are instant fun. But when I get to a Neil Stephenson book I have to sit back and remember that "okay, it's going to be a very slow beginning but this is going to be so worth it." Same can apply to TV shows, movies and, yes, video games. Doesn't mean it's a chore, it's just not instantly gratifying (hence my comment about immediate vs delayed gratification). I feel that more and more people are looking for instant gratification in every aspect of life and it's just sad to me.
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May 26, 2020 16:54
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The commercial success of PoE 1 is a bit of a red herring, though well deserved. The game had tremendous momentum from the Kickstarter and the emptiness of the niche it was filling. The slow start to it and the somewhat unnecessarily dreary world turned off many from the second I think. I didn't buy PoE 2 until very recently, though I did play and enjoy DOS2. PoE 2 is so immediately good at the start it made me go back and pick up my second run in PoE 1 and continue it. On the dreariness, there're little to no contrasting tones in the first act of PoE 1 that I remember. Mailer posted:Josh Sawyer thinks the game didn't do well and I just scrolled through two pages debating the ethical choices of the major factions and citing history and current events in the game. I wish I could link him that and tell him to go make a new RPG of this quality and stop wondering why sales numbers were different. Deep discussion on the choices and their consequences as presented in the game for years after the fact was also a feat of the Fallout New Vegas thread, so it's a sign of a good game setting. Phlegmish posted:I will say this, I've seen goons say that they think Kingmaker is poorly written, but I don't really agree. It was fine, kind of lighthearted in a way that (again) reminded me of Baldur's Gate 2. The fact that the writing is not as deep or interesting as Pillars of Eternity doesn't mean it's necessarily bad. Agreed. I enjoyed the lightheartedness of the banter among the PFK party members and it reminded me of BG more than anything else. You meet Linzi right after you start the game and much like Hey, it's me, Imoen, that's a good thing. The problem for me with PFK is Pathfinder itself. I'm not willing to commit to mastering that system as it seems to want me to get full enjoyment of the game. PoE is so much better designed in every way when it comes to the system. The PF engine is quite nice though and the Turn-Based Combat mod is brilliant!
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May 26, 2020 17:15
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I finished act II in PoE and it was still a dreary, boring game. Defiance Bay was exactly the sort of 'pause the game for 10 hours of lore dumps, faction introductions and fetch quests' RPG town I hate. All the companions were boring and/or unlikeable, except Eder. In fact, I dropped the game after grieving mother dumps 10 pages of Chris Avellone huffing his own farts 5 seconds after meeting her, then gives a trivia quiz to check if you were huffing along. Doesn't help that I hate RTwP and found it to alternate between meaningless autocombat and fights alternating 3 seconds of flashing lights all over the screen following by reading the tiny combat log to find out what actually happened. I found Kingmaker with the TB mod to be a much more enjoyable experience throughout in pretty much every possible way, despite also dragging on way too long. Original Sin 1 does completely fall apart after the 1st map though, even playing it after all the updates it has had. The other maps must have been insanely dreadful if what they're now counts as them being fixed. That first map is amazing and about as long as I played PoE, though.
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May 26, 2020 17:32
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So, as the person currently playing POE1 for the first time, thoughts on what has been discussed: 1. An earlier poster compared it to Baldur's Gate 1. That was precisely my thought, especially with my reading this thread over the last 24 hours. It seems that POE2 is like BG2 in that "it's the really good one" with a lot more character and life. Don't get me wrong, I had a lot of fun with BG1 and I'm having a lot of fun here, too. In fact, it's much better than BG1 because my character actually has character. I dropped BG1 because there's just nothing for my PC to do. People said this game starts slow? Nothing loving happens in Baldur's Gate 1. I played it up to that mine and killing/sparing some dude and loving nothing happened. I've had more dialogue and chances to give my PC character in the first five minutes of this game than in all those hours I played BG1. 2. I have heard the POE1 companions are a Bit bland and don't develop, especially compared to POE2. Again, another BG1/BG2 comparison. Nevertheless, I got Aloth and Eder. I like Eder, Aloth is supremely untrustworthy but I need all the help I can get so he ca come. 3. I tried to do the Temple of Eothas with my Level 3 party and my brilliant (this is sarcasm, by the way) strategy of "throw Eder into the room and let the Shadows swarm him so me an Aloth can nail them with AOE spells. It's good for killing two o them but then the remaining ones all start beating the poo poo out of me and I have no healing so.... I've been advised to leave this for later and go get a full party. All-in-all I'm having a lot of fun reading lore and talking to people and the gameplay. EDIT: This is a quote from Reddit quote:In most "vancian" games it's about how willing a player is to do whatever it takes to recover spells after each combat. Not usually about resource scarcity. PoE1 has an absurdly forgiving "rest" mechanic even on low difficulties. There's a reason Deadfire dropped it. How is Camping different in POE2? NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 17:47 on May 26, 2020 |
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May 26, 2020 17:36
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KNR posted:I finished act II in PoE and it was still a dreary, boring game. Defiance Bay was exactly the sort of 'pause the game for 10 hours of lore dumps, faction introductions and fetch quests' RPG town I hate. All the companions were boring and/or unlikeable, except Eder. In fact, I dropped the game after grieving mother dumps 10 pages of Chris Avellone huffing his own farts 5 seconds after meeting her, then gives a trivia quiz to check if you were huffing along. Basically as soon as you left the Cyseal map the game ended, no voice acting, basically no NPCs. Entire villages of people just not having anything to say. No real quests. Just a slog to the end boss. Coming back around I think Obsidian has a real problem with intros and starting their games. KotOR2 and Peragus. NWN2 with West Harbor and the slooooow crawl out. Alpha Protocol with the slow Graybox bits and Saudia Arabia. Pillars 1. Their best games are the ones where they trust the player and world and just let you out with very minimal guidance like New Vegas. Hell, Goodsprings is probably the weakest part of New Vegas if you stick around also. They consistently have good, cool ideas that take the player 10+ hours to even start to see the basics of how the game will be running after the fact. It's a tutorial followed by a guided experience, but the guided experience is always massive. Compare this again to OS1 which I feel had a great intro. Here's a random beach with a few quests/get you to understand the conversation system organically. Here's a dungeon you can do if you want. If you do, it's got some really basic traps to avoid to teach you those systems. Ok, good job, here's the game, total time needed was 30 minutes. Everything is open to you now. You'll figure out the rest as you go, we wanted to show you the cool poo poo ASAP. Like there needs to be an understanding that most people will not play a game past 20-30 odd hours. You need to frontload the poo poo out of your game, and need to get people into the good bits ASAP. And Obsidian doesn't do that. They ask you to take 10-20 hours to go through and get some slow world building and then ok, now it's time for the real game to begin, but by that point people are totally checked out.
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May 26, 2020 17:48
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Furism posted:I realize that. But even in entertainment you can have a slow start. The author Neil Stephenson is a great example. It sometimes takes 100 pages (or more... I'm looking at you Anathem) before you get to the good stuff. But the stuff is only good because it took a while to set up properly. I still love Terry Pratchett books, which are instant fun. But when I get to a Neil Stephenson book I have to sit back and remember that "okay, it's going to be a very slow beginning but this is going to be so worth it." Same can apply to TV shows, movies and, yes, video games. Doesn't mean it's a chore, it's just not instantly gratifying (hence my comment about immediate vs delayed gratification). You can have both long term and short term payoffs, but you can't tell people they're not working hard enough to have fun. If I wanted to be working I'd be at work or playing destiny 2. That's why I stopped playing d2, actually. They just made me go grind a thousand shotgun kills. Any time a piece of entertainment is not entertaining the customer is a failure on the part of the creator. There are lots of ways to entertain, but you have to use one of them. Obviously, I was mostly entertained by poe2, or I wouldn't be replaying it again - but I can definitely see why many would not be, or would decide that another game would give them a better return on their time and money.
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May 26, 2020 17:48
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Overlong and unnecessary personal ramble on modding for the first PoE game. I find it funny that the first game didn't receive more mods, compared to say PFK which has so many. PF:K is easy to mod being a Unity game. I got sick of waiting on Web spells to expire and was able to go from never having done C# or coding on Windows, though an experienced Unix programmer, to getting a fully functional proof of concept of a mod up in a day or so. This included the time to test various C# disassemblers and using one to peek at source and find/learn my way through it. I could also lean on some existing and well-coded mods for the game to bootstrap a mod build quickly. I had it up on Nexus a few days later. A later, more complex, mod was similarly straightforward once I figured out how to achieve what I wanted in the game code. The approach taken by the PFK community using the Unity Mod Manager to hook into the game code made it easy to make mods that work with other mods no problems. By contrast, the IEMod, though an excellent piece of modding, takes a different approach that encourages you to add your mods to it. The hooking in, while still conceptually similar, is an embedded library. I took a look at some simple tweaks I wanted to do and found the code I wanted to tweak in the PoE disassembly easily enough - but found the effort of getting an IEMod build up and running to plug my code into a lot more painful than with PFK's approach. This is my fault, I'm not a Visual Studio or Windows coder, but with UMM in PFK I could just adapt existing mod code to Visual Studio Code, get a build up and running in a very short time. That's a bad jumble of words, but I think it's strange there are so few significant gameplay mods for PoE. Part of it is of course that PF has a huge number of unused classes to mine for PFK mods, but still.
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May 26, 2020 17:50
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NikkolasKing posted:
They moved everything to 'per encounter' instead of having spells persist between rests. So, say, Wizards have 2 casts of a first level spell but they get them every combat encounter instead of refreshing 4 casts when you rest. The big exception is you now have a resource to 'empower' things which basically lets you use abilites as if you were a higher level with more damage etc. That is a small pool and is only refilled by resting along with things like injuries only going away when you rest etc.
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May 26, 2020 17:52
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v1ld posted:Overlong and unnecessary personal ramble on modding for the first PoE game. I find it funny that the first game didn't receive more mods, compared to say PFK which has so many. I think it's because Obsidian had to modify Unity a bunch, and purchased or develop in-house a lot of middleware, that you can't just mod it like a basic Unity game. It's barely the Unity engine anymore. Some Goons were part of a project to build a C# library to hook into the game though, iirc. Deadfire has actual mod support although I must say the documentation isn't... well, it's just not there. There's a tutorial I think and that's about it. I couldn't find any software architecture documentation or a dataset like a relational database (so we know that string_13343 is the Cyclopedia entry for text_23235, for instance). PS: The only mod I want, but it's a huge undertaking, is to make Deadfire combat like PoE1 (DR not Pen and go back to Per Rest resources instead of Per Encounter).
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May 26, 2020 18:00
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KNR posted:I finished act II in PoE and it was still a dreary, boring game. Defiance Bay was exactly the sort of 'pause the game for 10 hours of lore dumps, faction introductions and fetch quests' RPG town I hate. All the companions were boring and/or unlikeable, except Eder. In fact, I dropped the game after grieving mother dumps 10 pages of Chris Avellone huffing his own farts 5 seconds after meeting her, then gives a trivia quiz to check if you were huffing along.  In fact I think that part with the Grieving Mother is exactly where I fell off my last playthrough.I've put 30-something hours into Deadfire now and absolutely love it though. It really improves on absolutely everything.
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May 26, 2020 18:00
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KNR posted:I finished act II in PoE and it was still a dreary, boring game. Defiance Bay was exactly the sort of 'pause the game for 10 hours of lore dumps, faction introductions and fetch quests' RPG town I hate. All the companions were boring and/or unlikeable, except Eder. In fact, I dropped the game after grieving mother dumps 10 pages of Chris Avellone huffing his own farts 5 seconds after meeting her, then gives a trivia quiz to check if you were huffing along. So you don't like RTwP and walls of texts and thought it was a good idea to play a game that is supposed to be exactly that? Can't say I disagree with you on GM, though. But what I did, and realize this might be crazy, is I just stopped interacting with her didn't get her in my party.
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May 26, 2020 18:04
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Zore posted:They moved everything to 'per encounter' instead of having spells persist between rests. So, say, Wizards have 2 casts of a first level spell but they get them every combat encounter instead of refreshing 4 casts when you rest. Hm, that's a bit disappointing. I liked this system. Despite what that Redditor said, this system is totally less broken than Neverwinter Nights where you could just Rest whenever, no items required. Kinda defeated the whole great merit of Vancian magic which is strategy and prudence. I don't think I've said it in here but I adore Vancian Magic systems and that is part of what got me to play these games. Oh well, I'm sure it'll still be lots of fun. Thanks for telling me about this.
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May 26, 2020 18:05
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Furism posted:So you don't like RTwP and walls of texts and thought it was a good idea to play a game that is supposed to be exactly that? I can't answer for KNR, but personally I just really wanted to play a good old role playing game and figured I could put up with RTwP assuming the rest of the game was engaging. The problem was that it was.... not. I have no problem with walls of text - I'm the type who will comb through every nook and cranny talking to every single NPC until their dialogue is exhausted. The content of that text matters though, and I absolutely hated a lot of the writing (particularly Durance and Grieving Mother) The setting was also confusing, I did not feel any connection to the party members and a majority of the quests and dialogue was just dreary and left me wanting to drop the game rather than digging deeper. like I said, Deadfire improves on all of this wonderfully 
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May 26, 2020 18:10
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PoE is dreary, yes, but...it's supposed to be? It was maybe a bit dry even for me, but overall I didn't have a problem with this aspect, everything felt thematically and aesthetically consistent. I kind of liked that everything was low-key for a change. I suppose I can understand that the dreariness itself might be offputting to some, I myself put down Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice because it was too successful at achieving what it set out to do; making the player feel uncomfortable.
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May 26, 2020 18:11
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Yeah PoE1 being melancholy is a big part of the appeal to me. The unifying themes are pretty well developed across the party members and the main story. Everyone, the Watcher included, is searching for closure to be given to them. All of them discover there's no such thing. They all react differently to that revelation. Grieving Mother is the only party member I dislike. Not because she's melancholy and weird but because she's just plain poorly written. Just way too much purple prose. Durance is a much, much better character and probably one of my favorite characters in any RPG period. He's a terrible human being but it's insanely refreshing to have a Priest with actual conviction and principles instead of someone who says the name of a god occasionally. I like the plot and characters of both games about equally, but I think the first game has better encounter design tbh. Particularly in the White March. Multiclassing in PoE2 tends to turn things into boring lawnmower fests. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 18:24 on May 26, 2020 |
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May 26, 2020 18:15
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KNR posted:Defiance Bay was exactly the sort of 'pause the game for 10 hours of lore dumps, faction introductions and fetch quests' RPG town I hate. "Pause the game for 10 hours" is so spot on for so many games when you hit the big town and for the reasons you list. Defiance Bay is where both my first 2 PoE runs foundered. I dread hitting those big cities, partly because I want to do everything and talk to everyone and the sheer density is a bit too much.
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May 26, 2020 18:18
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NikkolasKing posted:Hm, that's a bit disappointing. I liked this system. Despite what that Redditor said, this system is totally less broken than Neverwinter Nights where you could just Rest whenever, no items required. Kinda defeated the whole great merit of Vancian magic which is strategy and prudence. I don't think I've said it in here but I adore Vancian Magic systems and that is part of what got me to play these games. I also think PoE1 system is better because, as you pointed out, you have be careful with your spell usage. Sure the game will allow a fairly high amount of rest supplies (even on PotD the 3 you get are enough for the whole game, once you know where the refills are) but people seem to forget they don't have to use them if they want to make the game more challenging. In any case I think it's just cooler to not spend all your highest level spells every. loving. fight. Deadfire doesn't do that but at the same time the encounter design is objectively better and you will need more spells. It's one of the thing Obsidian balanced very well. I still like the Olde Way but the new one works well enough.
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May 26, 2020 18:18
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Phlegmish posted:PoE is dreary, yes, but...it's supposed to be? It was maybe a bit dry even for me, but overall I didn't have a problem with this aspect, everything felt thematically and aesthetically consistent. I kind of liked that everything was low-key for a change. It's absolutely a matter of taste, but broader tastes in the marketplace trend more towards exciting, fast-paced openings and colorful worlds. When it comes to creating a product that's intended for mass consumption, there's always risks you assume when it comes to creating something that defies popular conventions. Sometimes you get lucky, and something that's dreary and slow-starting hits at the right moment to capture a particular cultural zeitgeist - Game of Thrones, for example. At other times - and more commonly - it lands with a thud, because a melancholy atmosphere captures peoples' attention less well.
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May 26, 2020 18:20
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I bough and played the DOS games because they had co-op, and the turn based combat was fun that way. I have no idea what was going on in the stories of those games. It was a completely different experience than pillars
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May 26, 2020 18:23
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NikkolasKing posted:1. An earlier poster compared it to Baldur's Gate 1. That was precisely my thought, especially with my reading this thread over the last 24 hours. It seems that POE2 is like BG2 in that "it's the really good one" with a lot more character and life. Don't get me wrong, I had a lot of fun with BG1 and I'm having a lot of fun here, too. In fact, it's much better than BG1 because my character actually has character. I dropped BG1 because there's just nothing for my PC to do. People said this game starts slow? Nothing loving happens in Baldur's Gate 1. I played it up to that mine and killing/sparing some dude and loving nothing happened. I've had more dialogue and chances to give my PC character in the first five minutes of this game than in all those hours I played BG1. As the president and possibly the only member of the BG1 fan club, this is precisely why I prefer it to the second game. It was all about adventuring, finding stuff out on the road, and the freedom to seek out what exists on the next map over. The D&D implementation reflected that, even if they didn't anticipate the summoning exploit, in that nothing felt stacked in one way or the other. PoE1 reminds me of BG1 in the map structure - the large expanses of wilderness and impractical dungeons that you'd traverse on the wishes of a random NPC you met instead of part of a mainline quest. PoE2 is the BG2 to this - focused quest chains, centralizing on a capital city early, and with a more colorful and varied look to PoE/BG1's fantasy countryside. Despite that, it doesn't suffer from all of BG2's problems. Massive railroading and bullshit in every direction is what made teenage Mailer say BG2 was trash. PoE2 doesn't do that, and it's much better because of it. I'll trade adventuring for melodramatic cutscenes any day. quote:How is Camping different in POE2? There's no more campfire supplies limit and injuries aren't accrued over time. You'll still get injured, but it's a stat drain (red debuffs) instead of an HP drain. All spells (and most, but not all, abilities) are per-encounter. You very rarely have to rest and when you do you can eat the cheapest food to heal or better food to heal and get a bonus. The only reason resting exists in PoE2 is to provide zones where you can't rest.
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May 26, 2020 18:25
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NikkolasKing posted:Hm, that's a bit disappointing. I liked this system. Despite what that Redditor said, this system is totally less broken than Neverwinter Nights where you could just Rest whenever, no items required. Kinda defeated the whole great merit of Vancian magic which is strategy and prudence. I don't think I've said it in here but I adore Vancian Magic systems and that is part of what got me to play these games. A lot of stuff (particularly most item abilities) are still per rest. Though you can also rest anytime with no penalty in 2, only potential downside is loosing inn/sex bonuses.
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May 26, 2020 18:38
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PoE 1 was very good, PoE 2 was even better. The graphics look better than most AAA games, Edér is the best.
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May 26, 2020 18:51
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dunno if "melancholy" is the problem necessarily - Dark Souls/Witcher 3/Death Stranding come to mind. but PoE writing is exceptionally dry and overly focused on setting minutiae, even in the sequel more broadly the hook for the games is maybe a little incestuous - if you like this kind of game, you'll like this game - which isn't a great help for new audiences
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May 26, 2020 18:55
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Avalerion posted:only potential downside is loosing inn/sex bonuses. hate to lose my sex boni
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May 26, 2020 18:57
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Oasx posted:The graphics look better than most AAA games, Edér is the best.  Deadfire is something else though, the maps are just breathtaking. The jungles and ruins are beautiful, but I've been surprised at the many different environments they've got in the game, like the Blighttown with the mountain of corpses under the city, the skeleton-filled tombs of the temple of Berath and the more ancient Egyptian-looking environment of Poko Kohara. Aesthetically the entire game is just extremely my thing, far more so than the first game.on a completely unrelated note, now that I'm more familiar with the game I'm convinced that I could have a lot of fun doing a more challenging RTwP solo playthrough and I've been thinking about different class combinations and such that could be fun (after I've beaten the game on my current playthrough, naturally). How does Berserker/Ranger(Stalker) sound? I love the idea of running around alone with a big ol' weapon slicing through enemies together with my pet bear or w/e  e: also wondering if the combination of nature godlike (power level on inspirations) combines with berserker (granting inspirations to self). Not sure what sort of stats I would go with though. Your Computer fucked around with this message at 19:47 on May 26, 2020 |
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May 26, 2020 19:11
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Currently running as a Helwalker Monk and I´ve actually managed to get further than I´ve done before. This might even be the character I finish the game with for the first drat time. Currently planning to side with the natives but goddamn do I feel the urge to kick the sister-brother combo that runs this show to the curb and let the Roparu get their shot at things.
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May 26, 2020 19:40
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Your Computer posted:you put it into words better than I have but this is exactly the problem I have with "morally gray choices" in games and why I was worried about the writing surrounding the Huana in Deadfire (particularly after having heard multiple times that it was the sort of game with "no right choices"). It's also not quite true that there are no good/evil choices, but the choices you get generally ask "what kind of character are you playing" more than "what is your alignment" Zulily Zoetrope posted:Incidentally, I'm also super curious where something like the Naga or Scyorielaphas fit into the imperialism narrative.
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May 26, 2020 21:50
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Captain Oblivious posted:Yes, unfortunately Deadfire does out a ton of people as immersed in white man's burden/closeted authoritarian thinking. I don't think human beings now are fundamentally any different than they were a few hundred or even a thousand years ago. We're still subject to the same prejudices and rationalizations that our grandparents and their grandparents were subject to. We can be convinced to align with a group we don't like if the person in charge appeals to us. We can be convinced to act against our interests if the person representing those interests is repulsive to us. And we can start thinking that groups don't have a right to self-determination if those groups hold beliefs that are antithetical to our own/our culture's -- it's even easier if we sympathize with a minority that is suffering within that group. I don't think it's a weakness or shortcoming of Deadfire that it exposes these things even if the individuals doing it aren't self-reflective enough to realize the full scope of what they're doing. I think there is value in you understanding that this world is populated with plenty of people who would soberly support and justify the British Raj or Belgian Congo if they were framed slightly differently. I'll apologize for the main plot being loose and the difficulty being bad and the companion interaction system falling flat on its face and a whole load of other things, but I'm not going to make any apologies for how the factions are portrayed nor for how those portrayals expose biases in people. Every society has problems, every society has leaders that are imperfect or awful in spite of how well other aspects of them work for people. If all it takes to make a cultural imperialist pop their head out is a lovely queen or a repulsive tradition in a native culture, well that's hardly a monumental amount of arm-twisting, is it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaTbI7FCLl0 rope kid fucked around with this message at 22:16 on May 26, 2020 |
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May 26, 2020 21:52
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Hey, that's unfair. I play a cultural imperialist in Deadfire primarily because Atsura and Karü are the likable and competent faction heads and secondarily because the Kahanga and a lot of Huana suck.
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May 27, 2020 00:03
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rope kid posted:I don't think it's unfortunate at all. A fantasy CRPG didn't trick people into aligning with cultural imperialists. I agree with this post Also I don't actually understand why people hate Onekaza? Given her circumstances she seems to genuinely be trying to do the best she can for the Huana, and I'd even go so far as to say that it's understandable that they wouldn't want to shake up their traditional system with so many opponents circling. As far as monarchs go, I thought she was a pretty sympathetic character, though maybe that's just my Canadian sympathy for the crown talking.
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May 27, 2020 00:12
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What if I just play the game postponing any decisions as long as possible and then decide who to kill based on what gets me the best hat
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May 27, 2020 00:20
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:What if I just play the game postponing any decisions as long as possible and then decide who to kill based on what gets me the best hat shout out to all my big head mode players
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May 27, 2020 00:26
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rope kid posted:I don't think it's unfortunate at all. A fantasy CRPG didn't trick people into aligning with cultural imperialists. To be clear, the intended meaning of my post was more "unfortunately there are a ton of people with closeted authoritarian thinking, for Deadfire to out".
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May 27, 2020 00:28
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Starks posted:I agree with this post I haven't played the game in a while, but off the top of my head I can't remember a single sympathetic interaction with her: -She does the whole "pst hey I'm psychic, wanna chat while the ambassadors ramble on" greeting, which I've always found grating. -If you free the dragon in Shadow Under Neketaka, she gets super pissed at you, and if you stand your ground and tell her that that's hosed, she terminates the Huana questline and kicks you out then and there. -Her whole slavery policy. -Her brother can be bullied into feeding the Roparu, but she won't lift a finger to deal with any local affairs. -She is the one who forces you to choose a faction because she will not allow for a collaborative expedition even when the world is at stake. -Her power grab is by far the most ruthless, and I'm not sure I've ever actually gotten the Huana ending because that quest apparently crosses a line for me. All of that is understandable given her extremely precarious situation where spending resources on combating the slavers or granting further concessions to the trading companies could mean the end of Huana autonomy, but it does not serve to endear me to her as a character when you could be hanging with cooler faction heads who will happily listen to criticism and take it to heart. E: -She has a cool hat which could be your cool hat if you get rid of the head underneath! Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 00:43 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 00:38
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I haven't played the game in a while, but off the top of my head I can't remember a single sympathetic interaction with her: You can free the dragon and still stay on her side, but you have to have high Animancy to do it. If you free the dragon and tell her "oh well guess your people are doomed to subjugation and exploitation lol" yeah she's pretty mad. The power grab being "the most ruthless" seems like a pretty decorum.txt complaint to me. It's definitely taking off the mask, but it's the same mask everyone is wearing so...eh?
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May 27, 2020 00:45
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I haven't played the game in a while, but off the top of my head I can't remember a single sympathetic interaction with her: Unfortunately, the best hat, no contest loving feather crown Morally I like the huana *but* fashion requires sacrifices
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May 27, 2020 00:49
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Yeah, sure. It's cool to murder the queen for her awesome hat. It's just not Morally Correct. I started to play again, this time making a more aggressive and selfish character. I still can't stand the RDC, I bounce off those manipulative fascists loving instantly, even when I'm trying to roleplay someone sympathetic to them. Also kind of hard to like the pirates even though I'm trying. I suppose I'll go Valians?
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May 27, 2020 01:10
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I haven't played the game in a while, but off the top of my head I can't remember a single sympathetic interaction with her: Almost all of that makes perfect sense to me given that the stakes for the Huana are existential (at least in her mind, ending slides notwithstanding). She can justify imprisoning a dragon or ignoring local issues because she is fighting a bigger picture battle. A hungry roparu is better than a dead roparu. I think that's why her brother - who is much shittier than Onekaza IMO - is in charge of the local stuff. Also by slavery policy, you mean the fact that they allow non-Huana slavery in the deadfire? I agree that's pretty bad, but iirc the game never really throws that in your face as a major conflict; it turns out that Crookspur are enslaving Huana anyways so they're in the wrong both morally and legally. Am I remembering this wrong? Hieronymous Alloy posted:Unfortunately, the best hat, no contest This is correct but let's also acknowledge that the DLC had great hats: https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/The_Mask_of_the_Weyc https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Survivor%27s_Tusks Starks fucked around with this message at 01:27 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 01:19
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Captain Oblivious posted:You can free the dragon and still stay on her side, but you have to have high Animancy to do it. If you free the dragon and tell her "oh well guess your people are doomed to subjugation and exploitation lol" yeah she's pretty mad. She also sends you packing if you pick the history option that calls her a garbage ruler for not paying attention to things happening under her nose, which is, again, entirely understandable, but if the game wants me to feel like a bad guy for going against her, it should not make all the best burns dialogue options that piss her off. I dunno if "ruthless" is the right word, but blowing up the Brass Citadel and framing Castol for it just makes me uncomfortable in a way none of the other faction quests do. Well, that and siding with the slavers. Starks posted:Almost all of that makes perfect sense to me given that the stakes for the Huana are existential (at least in her mind, ending slides notwithstanding). She can justify imprisoning a dragon or ignoring local issues because she is fighting a bigger picture battle. A hungry roparu is better than a dead roparu. I think that's why her brother - who is much shittier than Onekaza IMO - is in charge of the local stuff. Well yeah, I don't disagree, I just also don't like her on those same grounds. And yeah, it doesn't really come up, since the only way to complete the Wahaki alliance quest is to kill the slavers. If you fail that quest and still side with the Huana, she will let the slavers continue doing their business, though. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 01:30 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 01:22
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Mr. Prokosch posted:Yeah, sure. It's cool to murder the queen for her awesome hat. It's just not Morally Correct. I think equitable hat distribution is a clear categorical imperative
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May 27, 2020 01:26
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