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GorfZaplen
Jan 20, 2012



If I enjoyed Tyranny's combat how much would I enjoy Pillars? For all its flaws I actually do enjoy the cooldown spam combat, it's very tense

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Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.



GorfZaplen posted:

If I enjoyed Tyranny's combat how much would I enjoy Pillars? For all its flaws I actually do enjoy the cooldown spam combat, it's very tense

Pillars doesn't really use cool downs, generally you use some sort of class resource to power abilities and get a set number of uses or you build up a resource throughout combat and spend it.

In Pillars one the magic classes are limited to x number of power per rest. (Works a lot like sorcerers in Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights, in Pillars two almost all abilities refresh after each combat.

Otherwise you'd probably like it, but it is different from Tyranny.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



All that changed in Deadfire where Wizards and such have per encounter resources instead of per day. A change for the better, in my opinion.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.



Jimbot posted:

All that changed in Deadfire where Wizards and such have per encounter resources instead of per day. A change for the better, in my opinion.

But both are different from Tyranny's magic, where you had unlimited uses of spells, but they all had cool downs and you could only have a certain number equipped.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



Closest thing would be playing a cipher (party of ciphers?) or perhaps the Helwalker monk.

Giga Gaia
May 2, 2006

360 kickflip to... Meteo?!

Jimbot posted:

All that changed in Deadfire where Wizards and such have per encounter resources instead of per day. A change for the better, in my opinion.

i love per rest..

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010





Giga Gaia posted:

i love per rest..



You are correct. I wish more RPGs had this.

a fatguy baldspot
Aug 29, 2018



Okay, going Godlike psyblade then. Any tips?

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



a fatguy baldspot posted:

Okay, going Godlike psyblade then. Any tips?

Soul blade is a really good melee focused subclass that will let you do tons of damage in melee. Donít forget your spells, though ó cipher debuffs are extremely strong.

If you go devoted, unless your weapon choice already does crush damage, strongly consider taking monastic unarmed training ASAP. Youíre considered proficient with fists, so you can switch to unarmed at any time to have a high damage backup weapon.

Great swords are a really good weapon choice for soul blades because of a unique great sword available early that will allow you to attack in an AoE, which is amazing with the soul blade special. They also let you hit with all three physical damage types with monastic unarmed training, which combined with cipher and devoted penetration boosts will mean armor simply wonít be a concern for you. Of course, there are also a lot of other good weapon choices, with flails, morning stars, sabers or swords probably being standouts.

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006



Fun Shoe

Dick Burglar posted:

The problem with gishes like fighter/wizard is that you're constricted by the action economy. Yeah, you can swing a sword or throw a fireball. And that's the problem: you can either swing a sword or throw a fireball. I suppose you could open with spells to soften up your targets then switch to sword to finish them off, but the best multiclasses are ones that compliment each other's abilities. A melee class with a cipher, for instance, helps the cipher build focus, and the cipher class actually provides a decent bit of beefing up your melee capabilities. Or you have chanters bolted onto various classes, because chanters can be built to do a lot passively, so you don't actually have to worry about their action economy very much. Two melees work fine because melees tend to have fewer actives anyway, and their passives are usually complimentary to the other class.

The best fighter/wizard is going to be a wizard who focuses on buffing defenses and using the wizard's summoned weapons to maul people in melee. There's even a grimoire you can buy/steal from The Dark Cupboard (I think that's where it is?) that has all the relevant spells.

Not sure about turn based but at least in RTWP mode a gish can pump out a lot of buffs really quickly given how fast cast most buffs are. Then they can just use melee to do dps. The only trouble they run into then is dispellers.

Such a gish could also throw out dps spells if they wanted but that's a lot of spells to use between the buffs and dps spells. Easier to just buff and then whack things generally.

a fatguy baldspot
Aug 29, 2018



Can you change your subclass

Dick Burglar
Mar 6, 2006
Check out my hot takes because I'm a straight white male

Ginette Reno posted:

Not sure about turn based but at least in RTWP mode a gish can pump out a lot of buffs really quickly given how fast cast most buffs are. Then they can just use melee to do dps. The only trouble they run into then is dispellers.

Such a gish could also throw out dps spells if they wanted but that's a lot of spells to use between the buffs and dps spells. Easier to just buff and then whack things generally.

Did you actually read my whole post or did you just read the first sentence? Because your post says exactly what I said in the second paragraph.

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006



Fun Shoe

Dick Burglar posted:

Did you actually read my whole post or did you just read the first sentence? Because your post says exactly what I said in the second paragraph.

I did, but then I apparently blacked out right after reading it and hit post . That's what I get for posting at 6am.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



a fatguy baldspot posted:

Can you change your subclass

No. What are your subclasses? Almost any combination can be made to work pretty well, though some are more optimal.

a fatguy baldspot
Aug 29, 2018



Heithinn Grasida posted:

No. What are your subclasses? Almost any combination can be made to work pretty well, though some are more optimal.

Psyblade/fighter soul blade/devout

This game is so fun anyway. Like Iím really getting into the world and lore. I like it!

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist


Yeah, there's really nothing quite like it. And it's sad!

I've played full BG1 for the first time after PoE2. I know it's a classic but the world is more fairy tale than a novel. You get exposition from people in a middle of nowhere who immediately wander off after saying what they had to say. Little reactivity to anything at all. Even recent Pathfinder Kingmaker seem to continue that line of D&D superfluousness. PoE1 went too far and was too talkative, but PoE2 is just perfect.

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006



Fun Shoe

ilitarist posted:

Yeah, there's really nothing quite like it. And it's sad!

I've played full BG1 for the first time after PoE2. I know it's a classic but the world is more fairy tale than a novel. You get exposition from people in a middle of nowhere who immediately wander off after saying what they had to say. Little reactivity to anything at all. Even recent Pathfinder Kingmaker seem to continue that line of D&D superfluousness. PoE1 went too far and was too talkative, but PoE2 is just perfect.

I love the hell out of the BG series and played it all the time growing up.

BG2 is one of the best rpgs I've played and if you can stick it through BG1 (which some people dislike or find dated at this point) you will probably enjoy it a lot. I love the whole series, but I can see how someone who didn't play it back then might find bg1 dated now. Bg2 aged very well though and is a total classic.

Captainicus
Feb 22, 2013



I never knew the assassin Rust in delver's row has a unique stiletto which you can only get by force-attacking him, then at half health he ends combat and throws a smokebomb so you can have a CYOA chase through the narrows to catch him

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



Ginette Reno posted:

I love the hell out of the BG series and played it all the time growing up.

BG2 is one of the best rpgs I've played and if you can stick it through BG1 (which some people dislike or find dated at this point) you will probably enjoy it a lot. I love the whole series, but I can see how someone who didn't play it back then might find bg1 dated now. Bg2 aged very well though and is a total classic.

Agreed. Iíll personally never understand folks who always recommend starting with the second game in a series where your character persists. The power curve from stripling to semi god is awesome and canít really be appreciated if you only start with BG2. I never play BG2 without doing a completionist run of BG1-ToSC-Siege and I never will. And I do think the games hold up perfectly well today.

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006



Fun Shoe

chaosapiant posted:

Agreed. Iíll personally never understand folks who always recommend starting with the second game in a series where your character persists. The power curve from stripling to semi god is awesome and canít really be appreciated if you only start with BG2. I never play BG2 without doing a completionist run of BG1-ToSC-Siege and I never will. And I do think the games hold up perfectly well today.

For sure. I think you do get more out of the experience doing the full run.

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist


Ginette Reno posted:

BG2 is one of the best rpgs I've played and if you can stick it through BG1 (which some people dislike or find dated at this point) you will probably enjoy it a lot. I love the whole series, but I can see how someone who didn't play it back then might find bg1 dated now. Bg2 aged very well though and is a total classic.

Funny enough, I've played BG2 shortly after release. I didn't like BG1 even then but BG2 was much better, yeah.

It also proves that a good RPG should have a lot of urban or not quite dungeons areas. That's why comparisons to PFKM often surprise me, as PFKM basically has no towns, just some sort of MMO lobby that is your kingdom. Also BG2 sure doesn't shy from using its setting to the max, throwing you into very interesting places and situations. It might be silly in a more down to earth series like PoE. Makes me sad about the current realistic trend. I think this is a big part of what makes BG2 so memorable.

BG2 has the advantage of not being low-level D&D where random crit can one-shot your main character. And I still remember how painful was it to actually play through a lot of combat encounters with mass confusion and level drain. So gameplay-wise PoE2 is still the king cause it removes all that tabletop BS that doesn't work in a game you make for PC.

zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather




I played a fair share of BG2 a long time ago, but never finished it and I played about a minute of BG1 only because I never found the time. I wouldn't mind doing a BG1 -BG2 run one of these days. What makes the first one super dated?

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011



Big, empty wilderness areas between plot points, simplistic dialogue options, and no interesting companion interactions.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



a fatguy baldspot posted:

Psyblade/fighter soul blade/devout

This game is so fun anyway. Like Iím really getting into the world and lore. I like it!

Thatís a rock-solid combination anyway. Some pointers:

-Donít sit on focus for soul annihilation. Itís most efficient if you spam it. Build focus to cast buffs, debuffs or DoTs, then aim to stay at 0 focus until you want to cast again.

-Mule kick is cheap and really strong.

-Cleaving stance is really nice, since soul annihilation gets kills reliably, which then build up focus for the next soul annihilation.

-Clear out is amazing ó itís low key one of the best martial actives in the game. And itís great for ciphers because it lets you build up a ton of focus at once.

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Ziggy Hero!
Ziggy! Save! Everyone!



Does Overseeing increase Barbarians Cleave AoE?

Furism
Feb 21, 2006

Live long and headbang


I understand what BG1 means for Video Game History but I think it's still popular mostly because of its reputation. With a more modern set of eyes - I didn't play it at release but I played the EE 6 or 7 years ago - and no particular emotional attachment, I thought it was okay. Right after playing EE I bought IWD 1 and 2 on GOG and I think I had more fun in those games. I didn't really miss having companions, custom characters were good enough for me. And the maps were gorgeous.

I never played BG2 more than a few hours because I had cRPG fatigue (from completing BG1/IWD1/IWD2 back to back), but I think I'll revisit soon. I'll probably look up the most broken builds to abuse and steamroll the content.

All of this to say that for me PoE1 is still a more fleshed out game, the wilderness areas take a mostly good portion of the game's world and they weren't so big I didn't have to zig zag through them to make sure I cleared everything. But PoE wouldn't exist if it wasn't for BG1, let's not forget that.

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011



Is it just me or is White March really difficult!!

Iím level 7, but Iím losing at least one guy every fight, and having to rest much more often than in the base game, which usually is about once per Endless Paths floor. Iíve had to rest twice just exploring one half of Longwatch Falls.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



Jay Rust posted:

Is it just me or is White March really difficult!!

Iím level 7, but Iím losing at least one guy every fight, and having to rest much more often than in the base game, which usually is about once per Endless Paths floor. Iíve had to rest twice just exploring one half of Longwatch Falls.

Itís been a while since I played, but I think level 7 might be a touch too soon?

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011



Iím going by the couple of posts last page that suggested level 7, or alternatively once Act 2 asks you to pick a faction (Iím at both)

Octo1
May 7, 2009


Jay Rust posted:

Is it just me or is White March really difficult!!

Iím level 7, but Iím losing at least one guy every fight, and having to rest much more often than in the base game, which usually is about once per Endless Paths floor. Iíve had to rest twice just exploring one half of Longwatch Falls.

Here's your problem, Longwatch Falls is the hardest of the areas and you should leave it for last.

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011



Octo1 posted:

Here's your problem, Longwatch Falls is the hardest of the areas and you should leave it for last.

Ah thatís a relief. Thanks.

I wish the game told you!

Giga Gaia
May 2, 2006

360 kickflip to... Meteo?!

i dont even do longwatch falls until my second tour through whitemarch. its brutal

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



I canít remember which part of the white March has the mines but youíll definitely want to avoid that at early level, too

En Garde Motherfuckers
Apr 28, 2009

Hey. Is it just me, or do my balls itch?

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

Does Overseeing increase Barbarians Cleave AoE?

it should, yes.

whether this is worth it over other gear options depends on whether you're in 1 or 2 imo. In 1 carnage hits inherit any on-hit/crit weapon effects, so if you have something that prones on crit or whatever you can lock down big groups pretty easily (by the time you hit high levels your carnage hits are more accurate than the attacks that generate them, hilariously). In 2 carnage is downgraded to not inherit much of anything (except maybe the Shaken effect from that one Frenzy upgrade, I don't remember offhand) so it's a lot less valuable generally.

a fatguy baldspot
Aug 29, 2018



Heithinn Grasida posted:

Thatís a rock-solid combination anyway. Some pointers:

-Donít sit on focus for soul annihilation. Itís most efficient if you spam it. Build focus to cast buffs, debuffs or DoTs, then aim to stay at 0 focus until you want to cast again.

-Mule kick is cheap and really strong.

-Cleaving stance is really nice, since soul annihilation gets kills reliably, which then build up focus for the next soul annihilation.

-Clear out is amazing ó itís low key one of the best martial actives in the game. And itís great for ciphers because it lets you build up a ton of focus at once.

Oh man thanks! I just read that soul whip is not that great and I was thinking of switching to Psion. But the person talking seemed to think soul whip was active, I canít find a button for it so maybe they were mistaken.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



a fatguy baldspot posted:

Oh man thanks! I just read that soul whip is not that great and I was thinking of switching to Psion. But the person talking seemed to think soul whip was active, I canít find a button for it so maybe they were mistaken.

Soul whip is passive and a modest damage boost. Soul annihilation is active, but is really strong. Soul whip has two passive upgrades, biting whip and draining whip, and this is one of the gameís few trap choices ó draining whip is always better. Itís a huge dps boost for soul blades, so pick it up immediately.

Psion is for cipher/caster multiclasses that stay in the back and never use weapons. If I recall, the passive focus generation disables when youíre hit, making it really bad for martials.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


a fatguy baldspot posted:

Oh man thanks! I just read that soul whip is not that great and I was thinking of switching to Psion. But the person talking seemed to think soul whip was active, I can’t find a button for it so maybe they were mistaken.

Switching to Psion would be rough for a melee cipher. Melee ciphers' big advantage is that melee puts out more DPS than ranged (generally) so you get more Focus in return for higher chances of getting killed. Hurting your Focus generation for no reason by switching to the subclass that is designed to cast all the time from backline safety isn't worth it.

Furism
Feb 21, 2006

Live long and headbang


Giga Gaia posted:

i dont even do longwatch falls until my second tour through whitemarch. its brutal

You need to put the shield that reflects graze ranged attack bounce back to the attacker on your tank. Then it becomes hilarious.

Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007




RIP me who did both Longwatch Falls and the Mines as the first things in White March 1 & 2 respectively. I made it through on Hard mode but it was a slog, to be sure.

Jay Rust posted:

Big, empty wilderness areas between plot points, simplistic dialogue options, and no interesting companion interactions.

To add to this, low-level DnD has the problem where you can literally be killed by a house cat as a level 1 mage. And while the dungeon crawls are obviously fun for some people, I find stuff like Durlag's Tower to be really difficult to find the energy to progress through. You're either crawling through the thing with an invisible thief slowly disarming everything, or you're relying on meta-knowledge from your five previous playthroughs so that you know not to rush your fighters into that chokepoint because it will set off the seventeen lightning traps that have been placed in the doorway. BG2's dungeons are generally better designed and are more likely to have environmental cues that let you know a trap is present. And your characters have more HP and better saves so they're a lot less likely to get insta-gibbed when they set off a trap, meaning you aren't forcing reloads with every misstep.

Furism posted:

I never played BG2 more than a few hours because I had cRPG fatigue (from completing BG1/IWD1/IWD2 back to back), but I think I'll revisit soon. I'll probably look up the most broken builds to abuse and steamroll the content.

Ranger/Cleric dual-wielding Crom Faeyr and Flail of the Ages is probably your easiest to play I WIN combo in BG2.

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v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Furism posted:

You need to put the shield that reflects graze ranged attack bounce back to the attacker on your tank. Then it becomes hilarious.

Which shield is that?

Got back into PoE 1 to finish it after having put it down on March 27th from the save date, 2 weeks after covid stay at home started. Wrapped up WM2 last night and that was so well done, now to finish up Act 2 and go into the final acts.

WM 1/2 are very well written and I like the additional challenge though I'm mostly overleveled for it - played all the way through on Hard and was bulldozing most of WM2 content at level 13-14.

Except for those monks at the Abbey, whoo they can bring on some hurt! But it turns out you can go through that entire map and quest without a single fight. Obsidian did a great job in making that possible while still holding the story together. Wiki said you have to fight Kuoto at the Veil no matter what but that was wrong as I found out by heading straight there after getting the thingamajig (updated the wiki to reflect that). Went back and did the fight anyway just to check it out. You don't have to fight any of the Low Tide monks either if you explore around and pay attention before doing the thing that can piss them off. All really well done and the kind of in-game optionality I love to see.

I wish there was a 3rd option at the end of the Abbey where you can just take the thingamajig and use it to unlock things and then head out without making any changes at the Abbey either way, let them get on with that themselves and more in keeping with your own agenda.

The lore is presented well and it's great to get up close and personal with the gods. Had to cheat to get the tempered ending, I was at 5 of 6 condintions - felt those conditions were a bit too rigid.

This run was begun in Dec '18 and has seen two extended hiatuses. It's great how easily you can get yourself back into the story and quests. A little time with the journal and I was mostly back on track. Quite a lot of pausing in combat to read through action descriptions, but it's all fun and good. Obsidian did a great job with all that.

Glad I didn't go straight to PoE 2 as I was initially thinking! PoE 1 has been great fun, though I didn't like it that much when it first released.

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