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2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Dick Burglar posted:

I've always wanted to play a Bleak Walker for story purposes but honestly the paladin kit doesn't terribly interest me in either game. I've got a Bleak Walker run that stalled out on PoE1 that I need to pick back up, but I'd rather play something else in Deadfire. Would it be possible to mod the Bleak Walker tag (for conversation triggers) onto another class in Deadfire?

I should think so, the game data lets you create new subclasses and modify existing ones. You could probably just mod the Bleak Walker subclass entry to say it's a subclass for, say, a Druid, and basically play as a base Druid who for conversation purposes is a Bleak Walker.

Anyone happen to know what the earliest conversation in the game is that has a subclass-specific dialogue option?

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Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011



Priest of Eothas has one with the Dawnstar wagon trapped in mud

Scorchy
Jul 15, 2006

Smug Statement: Elementary, my dear meatbag.


The console version of Deadfire (with all the DLCs) is headed to Xbox Game Pass this Thursday.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

2house2fly posted:

I should think so, the game data lets you create new subclasses and modify existing ones. You could probably just mod the Bleak Walker subclass entry to say it's a subclass for, say, a Druid, and basically play as a base Druid who for conversation purposes is a Bleak Walker.

Anyone happen to know what the earliest conversation in the game is that has a subclass-specific dialogue option?

This doesn't seem to work I'm compelled to investigate further

boo boo bear
Oct 1, 2009


priest of magran has a dialog check with ald engrim on the beach.

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?


Hot Rope Guy

2house2fly posted:

This doesn't seem to work I'm compelled to investigate further
That's odd - as far as I can tell, as long as the guid of the subclass stays the same, it shouldn't matter what class you attach it to since that's all the conversation conditionals look for. I only did the most cursory of investigations though

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

boo boo bear posted:

priest of magran has a dialog check with ald engrim on the beach.

And priest of Berath has one when you first wash up. Priests get a bonanza at the start of this thing!

boo boo bear
Oct 1, 2009


makes sense, used car salesmen never shut up when trying to sell you a lemon.

I dunno how useful it'd be but someone did go to the trouble of tallying all the dialog reactions. priest of mags/eothas were the top two for classes and huana from the deadfire were tops for 'racial reactions', for lack of a better term.

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/97707-unique-dialogue-options-report-deadfire-edition/

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




boo boo bear posted:

makes sense, used car salesmen never shut up when trying to sell you a lemon.

I dunno how useful it'd be but someone did go to the trouble of tallying all the dialog reactions. priest of mags/eothas were the top two for classes and huana from the deadfire were tops for 'racial reactions', for lack of a better term.

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/97707-unique-dialogue-options-report-deadfire-edition/

Huh, Ghost Heart Ranger has more checks than any subclass besides priests of Magran, Eothas, or Berath. Guessing those are mostly with Maia.

Only 6 specific checks for Bleak Walkers, so you could just roleplay the cruel and aggressive, no nice or diplomatic options as pretty much any class and you won't miss much content.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

I think the Ghost Heart ones are for bits where a normal ranger can say something like "my animal companion will handle this" or "hey look at what my animal companion is doing"

boo boo bear
Oct 1, 2009


the ranger reaction count might be folded into the cyoa stuff, there's usually an option for pets to do something useful in those.

Dick Burglar
Mar 6, 2006
Check out my hot takes because I'm a straight white male

If I remember correctly, someone said Ghost Hearts get an added "you summon your companion" mini-blurb before normal ranger reactions, which is why they have so many extras.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Well here's what I have to say about that:

Pilchenstein
May 17, 2012

So your plan is for half of us to die?


Hot Rope Guy

2house2fly posted:

And priest of Berath has one when you first wash up. Priests get a bonanza at the start of this thing!
Fun fact: that's not a subclass check, it's a deity check, which I think amounts to the same thing but it does mean that moving priest subclasses to another class might not enable all dialogue checks.

Anyway, I tested the theory from my earlier post and you can just swap the GUID of two subclasses around (I also swapped the display name in this case, just so I could tell the mod was working - my druid is actually a lifegiver here):

Zore
Sep 21, 2010




Yeah, the Ghost Heart stuff basically is just a list of every time Rangers get an animal companion related interaction plus like 2 unique ones. Most of them are either removing the normal Ranger stuff (like the Governor on the first island won't be weirded out by you having an animal tracking mud inside because you have a ghost) or adding the blurb about summoning to the regular Ranger blurb.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



The downside of having several hundred subclasses to experiment with mechanically for combat purposes is that meaningfully integrating them into plot mechanics becomes all the more untenable. It's easy to get hyped up on a compelling conceptual class, like Paladin orders, but the player's still doing most of the work in making the concept seem real.

For all its primitive elements I always really appreciated the way that BG2 made the PC's background set and varied "custom" content by their class. The hotness since then has obviously been tying "custom" content to player choice in background, from Dragon Age all the way to Cyberpunk 2077, but in pretty much every case the results are relatively paltry. I appreciate that PoE tried to tackle both approaches but they probably would have been spread thin even if they chose just one.

Have to imagine whichever designer came up with the Ghost Heart was the one tasked with dropping in every bespoke variant interaction. That or they were super popular with area designers by the end of development.

Meatgrinder
Jul 11, 2003

Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est



Hah, I was thinking the other day that I had yet to see any errors in any piece of text during my runs, and here's a glaring one right at the start of it.

Count Uvula
Dec 20, 2011


Meatgrinder posted:

Hah, I was thinking the other day that I had yet to see any errors in any piece of text during my runs, and here's a glaring one right at the start of it.

You didn't see it cause it's a result of him loving around with modding

Meatgrinder
Jul 11, 2003

Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est


Count Uvula posted:

You didn't see it cause it's a result of him loving around with modding

The mod changed 'teach' to ' learn'? I thought it affected the first answer, not Engrim's line.

Mr. Prokosch
Feb 14, 2012

Behold My Magnificence!


I don't think that's an error on the part of the writers, but rather conveying his accent. Using 'learn' in the sense of 'let me learn you something good' is very common in some areas of the English speaking world.

boo boo bear
Oct 1, 2009


it's not exactly a text error, just engrim's unique take on the language. sorta like slang.

'learn'em good' is a pretty common boxing expression, means you beat the absolute poo poo out of a guy who probably didn't belong int he ring.

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.


Eld Engrim speaks Hylspeak. I wrote that dialogue and the use of "learn" was intentional.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



Vernacular in my high fantasy setting?? That's unpossible

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

boo boo bear
Oct 1, 2009


in conclusion: english is an incredibly stupid language and all the rules are bullshit.

literally

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



English owns, Beckett was scared

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011



Eld Engrim? Shouldn't that be Old Ongrim ??

Prism
Dec 22, 2007

yospos


ilitarist posted:

This didn't feel that wrong to me because at that point you don't have a full party and it's an optional fight.

...it is? What else can you do about it? Serious question, I didn't know there was any way but straight through.

Scorchy
Jul 15, 2006

Smug Statement: Elementary, my dear meatbag.


Prism posted:

...it is? What else can you do about it? Serious question, I didn't know there was any way but straight through.

I always just stealth around counterclockwise and scamper into the mine entrance. When you come back out they're gone.

Meatgrinder
Jul 11, 2003

Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est


rope kid posted:

Eld Engrim speaks Hylspeak. I wrote that dialogue and the use of "learn" was intentional.

Ah! English is my fourth language and I am rarely exposed to its spoken variants. I had never heard anyone use this turn of phrase before, but I have seen other examples of people doing stuff like that, using the opposite of what they're actually saying. I just always figured it was an individual confusion rather than a product of their provenance. Fascinating!

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist


Scorchy posted:

I always just stealth around counterclockwise and scamper into the mine entrance. When you come back out they're gone.

Yeah. Mind you, it's not stealth in a sense you need skills and be careful. Just not move directly at those enemies.

Also about the inverted difficulty. I understand the joy of realizing that you've broken the world and has ascended above most of the enemies. But now that I think about it I blame Fallout 2. A lot of people have experienced true catharsis when they learned about Navarro Power Armor debut tactic. Doing it makes learning any game mechanics unnecessary and as long as you believe in the world consistency you probably feel like a superhero. It feels like many RPGs replicate this feeling one way or the other.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Meatgrinder posted:

Ah! English is my fourth language and I am rarely exposed to its spoken variants. I had never heard anyone use this turn of phrase before, but I have seen other examples of people doing stuff like that, using the opposite of what they're actually saying. I just always figured it was an individual confusion rather than a product of their provenance. Fascinating!

"That'll teach'em" and "That'll learn'em" mean the exact same thing.

Prism
Dec 22, 2007

yospos


Scorchy posted:

I always just stealth around counterclockwise and scamper into the mine entrance. When you come back out they're gone.

ilitarist posted:

Yeah. Mind you, it's not stealth in a sense you need skills and be careful. Just not move directly at those enemies.

Huh. Had no idea that worked; I think I assumed I had to fight to keep them safe, which is a weird thought because they're in the safety machinery and I'm not ditching them for that long.

Thanks!

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004



Having finally finished Pillars of Eternity 2 last night, the one thing I really want from Avowed now, is to be able to meet all of the gods again but this time they are fully modeled and viewable in first person. I was sad that we only really get to meet Eothas. Having the other gods just be viewable as artwork to the background of giant dialog dumps in between chapters, was really disappointing.

I said come in! fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Feb 18, 2021

Dick Burglar
Mar 6, 2006
Check out my hot takes because I'm a straight white male

To be honest, I'm not sure the gods would really 'hold up' in 3D. I have a feeling they'd seem too mundane.

DourCricket
Jan 15, 2021

Thanks Coupleofkooks

It will be interesting to get to interact with the gods from the perspective of a character who doesn't know that they are artificial

I feel like that colors a huge amount of the Watcher's dialogue options in 2. Though Avowed will probably be more like Pillars 1 where contact with them is pretty short.

e:

Dick Burglar posted:

To be honest, I'm not sure the gods would really 'hold up' in 3D. I have a feeling they'd seem too mundane.


Eh, if you keep the same perspective of them being dozens of time your size and most of them being weird looking monster things, that could be pretty cool.

DourCricket fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Feb 18, 2021

How are u
May 19, 2005

"I interpret Biden saying we didn't put kids in cages as more accurately saying our policy was not just to lock kids in cages,"

Dick Burglar posted:

To be honest, I'm not sure the gods would really 'hold up' in 3D. I have a feeling they'd seem too mundane.

Same, it would require some real work to pull off. The in-game descriptions of the gods in their various forms are so compelling and cool!

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004



DourCricket posted:

Eh, if you keep the same perspective of them being dozens of time your size and most of them being weird looking monster things, that could be pretty cool.

They have already gotten some work in on this too with Grounded!

netcat
Apr 28, 2008


Lmao what the gently caress. I didn't know you could actually die at the end of WM2. That's pretty dumb

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2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

I remember being surprised when it straight-up killed me. Also if you finish the main game without completing WM2 the final ending slide is replaced with "anyway, a while after all that you got killed by an army of monsters"

E: there are two moments like that in Pillars 2 as well, plus one in the DLC. if you refuse to do what Berath wants at the start, or try to sail to Ukaizo in a regular non-upgraded ship, or let Whehami take your body in SSS, a little ending plays for it. I think the Eothas/Ultimate challenge adds one too?

2house2fly fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Feb 23, 2021

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