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The White Dragon posted:which is a drat shame because you could do this to the leaden key in poe1. you could literally wipe out every member in the entire region, just walk into their office and straight up murder everyone there because they looked at you wrong and destabilize them entirely An invisible organization that the average person doesn't know about that influenced events through-out history is different than a major power in the world, who is actively conquering it. It would be nice, but it also would have the consequence of making an enemy of a major power without one protecting you, so people will complain that the moment they got out to sea an armada of ships attacked them. It's an action that would result in a fail-state.
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Nov 15, 2018 20:37
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ProfessorCirno posted:EDIT: Like if your response is "the game is about learning about the lore and setting!" then congratulations, you have described a book.
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Nov 15, 2018 20:45
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The best part of the Pillars game is the combat. I didn't care about murdering Thaos a second time, but I certainly looked forward to seeing my dumb combat ideas unfold.
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Nov 15, 2018 21:35
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frajaq posted:HUNT A GOD But when playing the game I never felt the story was building up to a combat encounter with Eothas.
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Nov 15, 2018 21:35
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:I cant remember - what happens if you murderbone all the factions in poe2? What is the wild card state I'm pretty sure it gives you the standard factionless ending in that case: you buy some fancy boat upgrades and sail to Ukaizo alone. The factions get stuck in a stalemate for control of the Deadfire because there's no decisive naval battle over Ukaizo to determine a "winner", and the whole region goes to poo poo more so than it was during the events of the game itself. The Watcher gets (more) famous for being the first person to set foot in Ukaizo. Unless they added new ending slides in a patch it doesn't really reflect the different ways you can get to it, from "I worked with every faction a little, did some stuff that arguably should have some long-term impact, but went my own way in the end" to "I personally killed everyone in the known world in my journey to become King poo poo of Murder Mountain, then bought a fancy boat I guess" Hieronymous Alloy posted:Oh yeah good point, I wonder if you lose the quest discount I doubt it, but the mountains of loot you'd get from (presumably also) singlehandedly murdering every living person in the game would make a few thousand cp off your purchase of a galleon look like chump change either way.
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Nov 15, 2018 21:37
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frajaq posted:HUNT A GOD For this picture they should have done a pic of Ashen Maw where Eothas grabs you with his big hand in an evil looking volcano, and then when people got there they'd be like "oh cool he's actually saving me"
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Nov 15, 2018 21:44
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Ah, fond memories of battling an ancient Engwithan fampyr and his cronies, after he ranted at me about beetles, on that very hand
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Nov 15, 2018 21:46
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I can’t say it wouldn’t have ruled if the promo material had been the party waiting patiently in the foreground while huge fantastical avatars engage in a petty squabble, pointing at each other and mugging
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Nov 15, 2018 21:57
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2house2fly posted:Ah, fond memories of battling an ancient Engwithan fampyr and his cronies, after he ranted at me about beetles, on that very hand
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Nov 15, 2018 22:00
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I wanted to play through the game again as a rogue with a crossbow but then I remembered that weapon type and several others don't really exist in deadfire. One thing I think the first game did better is the itemization, and I'm not just talking about some types of weapons getting completely shafted. The lack of multiclass meant a lot of niche items were still useful in specific builds due to spell holding/auras/passives and the characters being more specialized.
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Nov 15, 2018 22:05
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Jimbot posted:It's very interactive. You just want to be king of the world. That was stale bullshit two months ago, and unsurprisingly, it hasn't gotten any fresher. Nobody here is mad they weren't made king of Deadfire, and you saying that kinda clues in that you're just speaking out of your rear end. People are saying that they didn't feel like their character actually mattered. Also. quote:You're using the factions as much as they are using you. It's why after people played it, there were pages long discussions on which faction was best for Deadfire and each one had its positives and negatives. Let's look at the Huana questline. First, they pay you to go investigate the undercity, which really isn't you using them. Then, you go to a strange and mysterious island to find knowledge the prince wants that you can't use, so hey, they're still using you. Next, you go into the Watershaper's Guild to help them deal with all THAT bullshit, and I'm really still not seeing how this is helping you outside of "also they pay you." Finally, you kill a bunch of slavers, and then get rid of the other two major factions, for the Huana. Man yeah I really see how I'm using them a ton there. And this is repeated across the other factions. You are never really a member of any of the factions. You are at best a Very Friendly Mercenary, and again, this is repeated in the ending, which is "and then the watcher hosed off as if nothing happened." Except Aeldys, I guess, so there you go, you can fully join one side of one faction. And think about what you just said. People are debating over which faction was best for Deadfire. loving nobody debated over what the best actions for your Watcher to take are. Because throughout the whole game, you are eternally an outsider (even if you were born in the loving Deadfire), and you leave an outsider. It doesn't even matter who you romance. Game is over? Man I hope the romance wasn't TOO serious, because apparently you just loving bailed on them in the end. At the end of the day, there's no ending for the Watcher in Pillars 2, because you as a character do not matter. You as a game mechanic that does quests matters, but your own actual input? No.
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Nov 15, 2018 22:26
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Pallegina called me her casitá so I think you'll find I matter very much 
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Nov 15, 2018 22:30
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camerata > compagna > casitá
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Nov 16, 2018 00:19
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ProfessorCirno posted:That was stale bullshit two months ago, and unsurprisingly, it hasn't gotten any fresher. Last two pages have been about player agency or the lack of it on matters that, in the context of the world, you wouldn't have any. Being the pawn of a major power is precisely because you're an outsider - it's part of the framing device. If you don't like being a pawn then just murder everyone and be the master of your own destiny. Head to the goal yourself while exploiting them for your own financial gain. It's your character and the choices you make define the character. And as an outsider, who was set on this journey by being killed by one god and brought back by another, is fulfilled and you set out on another adventure. I won't argue that there's a level of detachment there. But in this kind of story that lets you influence the state of the world, being able to roam free is paramount. It's every tabletop character ever - they don't have immediate obligations that tether them to one place or else they wouldn't go on adventures. Jimbot fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Nov 16, 2018 |
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Nov 16, 2018 00:37
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rope kid posted:camerata > compagna > casitá *Christopher Walken voice* Would you like some...compagna?
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Nov 16, 2018 00:37
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rope kid posted:camerata > compagna > casitá Cruising for a bruising in your own thread, wow
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Nov 16, 2018 00:45
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rope kid posted:camerata > compagna > casitá Oh yeah. Well the point is, I think she likes me
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Nov 16, 2018 01:20
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Make an Alpha Protocol style arpg with all the story reactivity but set in PoE's universe tia
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Nov 16, 2018 01:25
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rope kid posted:camerata > compagna > casitá are those showing priority, or progression?
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Nov 16, 2018 01:29
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:Make an Alpha Protocol style arpg with all the story reactivity but set in PoE's universe tia Work for a fantasy Steven Heck.
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Nov 16, 2018 01:38
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isk posted:*Christopher Walken voice* Would you like some...compagna? This came off way more eyebrow-waggly than I intended, but whatever
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Nov 16, 2018 02:02
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Basic Chunnel posted:I can’t say it wouldn’t have ruled if the promo material had been the party waiting patiently in the foreground while huge fantastical avatars engage in a petty squabble, pointing at each other and mugging wael would never 'mug'. it'd look more like... 
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Nov 16, 2018 02:20
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ProfessorCirno posted:Let's look at the Huana questline. isn't this every rpg where ur a blank slate yojimbo character?
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Nov 16, 2018 02:31
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jfood posted:wael would never 'mug'. it'd look more like... Wael would be one of those assholes wearing a Guy Fawkes mask and acting mysterious
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Nov 16, 2018 02:39
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marshmallow creep posted:are those showing priority, or progression?
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Nov 16, 2018 02:40
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Ginette Reno posted:Wael would be one of those assholes wearing a Guy Fawkes mask and acting mysterious wael is beautiful, dandy and bright. eothas is the basement dwelling incel chud who's mad at daddy.
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Nov 16, 2018 02:52
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BTW, I understand why many players do not like the ending of Deadfire. I did make a conscious choice to not allow the player to prevent Eothas from breaking the machine at Ukaizo, but allowed them to determine how the metaphysical wreckage would settle, who would control Ukaizo (if anyone) as well as the course that individual major factions would take (e.g. Castol/Alvari, Furrante/Aeldys). I cautioned our marketing folks against making Eothas look like he was being aggressive toward the party because it could set up an expectation of violent confrontation. In the game, we did try to reinforce at several points that Eothas was both impervious to physical harm and he couldn't be dissuaded from his primary goal. I think the end of Ashen Maw makes at least the former very clear -- though again, I understand there's a difference between understanding something and liking it. I appreciate a lot of stories where the central characters can either only mitigate doom or they can't mitigate the doom directly, only deal with collateral damage. In a game like F:NV, you can affect a lot more in part because even monstrous people like Legate Lanius in the setting are still just people -- but things always go wrong. When F:NV came out, a fair number of vocal players were annoyed that there wasn't an "all good" ending. There are always things that get screwed up no matter what you do, sometimes because of, sometimes in spite of, your actions. The gods of Eora, including Eothas, are incredibly powerful and stubborn. Being pushed around and ignored by the gods was supposed to feel annoying and irritating, but the resolution to the story wasn't supposed to be unsatisfying. My hope was that the gods' increasing desperation and reliance on the Watcher would give the player a sense of satisfaction and that Eothas' willingness to listen to the Watcher's opinions about how to leave things would give them a sense of place and purpose between Eothas, the gods, and mortals. Unfortunately, for a lot of people, that was more aggravating.
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Nov 16, 2018 03:07
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I just want to endlessly board a variety of ships as a goddamn pirate. Arrrr.
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Nov 16, 2018 03:09
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So does this mean Pillars 3 is going to be an adaptation of Fritz Lang's Metropolis? The mediator between head and hands must be the heart!
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Nov 16, 2018 03:16
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rope kid posted:The gods of Eora, including Eothas, are incredibly powerful and stubborn. Being pushed around and ignored by the gods was supposed to feel annoying and irritating, but the resolution to the story wasn't supposed to be unsatisfying. My hope was that the gods' increasing desperation and reliance on the Watcher would give the player a sense of satisfaction and that Eothas' willingness to listen to the Watcher's opinions about how to leave things would give them a sense of place and purpose between Eothas, the gods, and mortals. Unfortunately, for a lot of people, that was more aggravating. I don’t have to kill the Gods with my two hands but I’d like a thumb in their eye, at least. I don’t feel that I matter in any way to what happens beyond what Eothas allows me. I’m also surprised (though I really should not be) that people thought FNV didn’t have a good ending when you can spare the Khans and the Brotherhood and the Boomers in the NCR ending.
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Nov 16, 2018 03:33
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I'm very interested in player disempowerment in stories, so I was all in on it. And to me it seems very fitting for the PoE setting for whatever reason.
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Nov 16, 2018 03:37
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Eothas is the Battle Of Hoover Dam, basically. You can't stop it from happening but you can affect how things shake out. One thing I'd have much preferred would be to have a conversation with him like the one with the Eyeless at the end of White March 2, where the way you've resolved quests previously affects what options are available to you. You can't empower Berath if you took anarchistic options like siding with Aeldys, etc. I liked telling the Eyeless "knowledge is dangerous" and they said "really, bc you liked knowledge just fine at the animancy hearings" I can only imagine what a nightmare that would have been to program though. I can't even get modded-in crewmember names to display in scripted interactions
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Nov 16, 2018 03:46
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rope kid posted:I appreciate a lot of stories where the central characters can either only mitigate doom or they can't mitigate the doom directly, only deal with collateral damage. I wonder if the reception would have been different were it a doom that didn't have agency. Or if it were a doom like Iluvatar's, where the being responsible is so high above reality he's literally outside of creation. I actually really like the fake Engwithan gods, but they are basically a scam. So it really feels more like a juiced up conman is loving you over, not that you are making hard choices in doomed circumstances.
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Nov 16, 2018 05:51
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yeah except theyre actually almighty gods, there is no con in that aspect, and being a giant statue is a bit more than "juiced up"
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Nov 16, 2018 05:57
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rope kid posted:Unfortunately, for a lot of people, that was more aggravating. The only aggravating part is imagining running into durance and him lording it over you that at least *he* stopped Eothas once.
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Nov 16, 2018 06:49
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User posted:I wonder if the reception would have been different were it a doom that didn't have agency. Or if it were a doom like Iluvatar's, where the being responsible is so high above reality he's literally outside of creation. I actually really like the fake Engwithan gods, but they are basically a scam. So it really feels more like a juiced up conman is loving you over, not that you are making hard choices in doomed circumstances. They are in every sense of the word gods though. Magran can erupt volcanoes. Ondra summoned a moon. It's implied that Woedica used to apparate to personally strangle oath breakers. With the wheel they had the power to punish or reward deeds in life upon death. I think the big divider in who liked the story and who didn't boiled down to how steeped someone was in religion and mythology. Whether they were created or not, they *were* gods, and they sat at the top of the order. They could reward devotion, and they could punish transgressions. I'm not sure that some of the pantheon even cared if mortals knew they were created, so long as mortals still worshiped them and didn't try to unseat them. I never expected to be able to stop a god because I was raised to know that a god is totally and completely above a mortal. You worshiped, you feared, you loved, and you obeyed because you existed at the pleasure of a being that could smite you in the now and the hereafter with no recourse. SYSV Fanfic fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Nov 16, 2018 |
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Nov 16, 2018 07:05
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Durance and Edér are by far the best written NPCs in the games.SYSV Fanfic posted:They are in every sense of the word gods though. Magran can erupt volcanoes. Ondra summoned a moon. It's implied that Woedica used to apparate to personally strangle oath breakers. With the wheel they had the power to punish or reward deeds in life upon death. If the gods are so powerful, then how come with the entire pantheon supporting the Watcher, he still just gets to, well, watch. Oh snap nominative determinism strikes again. Stupid pantheon, you should've made him a godstopper. User fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Nov 16, 2018 |
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Nov 16, 2018 07:10
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SYSV Fanfic posted:The only aggravating part is imagining running into durance and him lording it over you that at least *he* stopped Eothas once. Lmao if you didn't murder him for his poo poo so you didn't have to sit through his lovely monologues.
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Nov 16, 2018 07:30
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Again though you didn’t have to stop Eothas, could have been written so that you have to help him break the machine. Or even just instead of Eothas asking what he should do with his essence after, the player himself just does it. Or you fight him after he breaks it when he’s weakened himself...
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Nov 16, 2018 07:41
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I quite liked the ending, although it wasn’t really in line with my expectations. The marketing was more or less “hunt a god, my lord” to be fair. I was expecting a McGuffin to show up at some point but it never happened. By the time I started sailing to the point of no return with no concrete plan to stop Eothas it did dawn on me that, yep, that’s probably how things are going to play out. There is a lot to be said though for concluding a game that’s primarily focused on tactical combat by tactical combat, even if the ending doesn’t work out in the player’s favour. While the guardian of Ukaizo was cool it wasn’t a fight with much emotional weight.
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Nov 16, 2018 08:01
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