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rocketrobot
Jul 11, 2003

moot the hopple posted:

An analogous group-stunlocking Barbarian build is quite possible in POE1 thanks to their ability to extend weapon effects like stun in an AoE with Carnage (whereas Deadfire changed it so that Carnage is damage only).

I was not aware of this. That's really helpful, thanks. I adjusted my build above so any weapon with a status effect that someone like to spread around would benefit from that knowledge whether it's a flaming greatsword or stunning Morningstar. My barbarian will now cast AoE spells by smashing enemies really hard with his weapon.

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Phosphine
May 30, 2011

WHY, JUDY?! WHY?!
🤰🐰🆚🥪🦊
Ah yes, muscle wizard, the best class

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.
are there any ultimate patches left if I decide I hate myself

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
Are there any good guides for how to build characters in POE1 that don't get into gimmicky multiclass builds? I don't want to build Pallegina as a Chanter.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Halloween Jack posted:

Are there any good guides for how to build characters in POE1 that don't get into gimmicky multiclass builds? I don't want to build Pallegina as a Chanter.

Do you mean Deadfire?

Furism
Feb 21, 2006

Live long and headbang

Halloween Jack posted:

Are there any good guides for how to build characters in POE1 that don't get into gimmicky multiclass builds? I don't want to build Pallegina as a Chanter.

POE1 doesn't have multiclassing. Any decently rated guide on the Steam's community, or on Obsidian's forum, should do the trick.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
Oh. I just assumed that if you took a multiclass feat at low level you could take additional ones after that. The only one I make use of is Apprentice's Sneak Attack.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Radia posted:

are there any ultimate patches left if I decide I hate myself

Dunno for sure but there were a bunch left as of a few months ago

https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1691560719865770154?t=okaDX7DMPmSyuyJHyB8obA&s=19

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

oh hell yeah that’s promising

rope kid
Feb 3, 2001

Warte nur! Balde
Ruhest du auch.

Radia posted:

are there any ultimate patches left if I decide I hate myself
Yes.

Zeerust
May 1, 2008

They must have guessed, once or twice - guessed and refused to believe - that everything, always, collectively, had been moving toward that purified shape latent in the sky, that shape of no surprise, no second chance, no return.
I finally dipped my toe into POTD difficulty in PoE1 after 600 hours, and I'm surprised how much I'm enjoying it! I was expecting it to be more of a slog (that said, the Temple of Eothas sucks dicks on POTD), but it really does feel like the game is tuned to work best at this difficulty level, and the fact I have to keep my brain switched on is cutting through most of the trash-mob tedium I was starting to feel playing the game for the Nth time.

It may be a point in my favour that I was already familiar enough with the game's mechanics to build a fairly optimised party - hiring a Cipher at Gilded Vale definitely took the edge off a lot of early fights, and I've now got the Druid/Wizard/Priest trifecta to rain a hell of debuffs down on the troublesome enemies. That, and I was inspired by the conversation upthread to try to make a go of a Fireball Barbarian build, and combining Carnage with Firebrand really does make fights go a lot quicker.

moot the hopple
Apr 26, 2008

dyslexic Bowie clone

Radia posted:

are there any ultimate patches left if I decide I hate myself

You might be interested to know that a new Dorudugan tech was recently discovered. Building off the same principle of the endlessly stacking recovery reduction with repeated swapping of Squid's Grasp/Sasha's Singing Scimitar that I previously shared ITT, Constentin Lévine over at the Obsidian forums adapted it to produce the opposite effect with repeated swapping of the Thundercrack Pistol's Charged Field aura to infinitely increase an enemy's recovery time -- in his tests with Dorudugan, he was able to stack it to an hour of IRL time :catstare:. So you essentially only need to weather the brunt of Dorudugan's initial attack and then use the swap trick until he is stuck in recovery for the rest of the fight. The nice thing is that this tech is entirely based on gear and can be used with any class. However the Charged Field effect is restricted to only certain kinds of enemies so it won't be applicable to all megabosses if you do decide to go for an Ultimate run.

I do have to walk back my earlier defense of the Squid's Grasp/Sasha's Singing Scimitar and Black Jacket technique as it becomes apparent with that trick and the above discovery that recursively stacking recovery modifications is broken as all hell. I think the easiest fix is to restrict these specific duration and recovery modifying effects found on weapons and shields so that they can't affect actions that are currently in progress and will only go in effect with the next action. This way you still keep the balanced behavior that's in the game already with live updating recovery when getting hit by a Dexterity Inspiration/Affliction or moving around after firing a shot with a non-reloading ranged weapon, for instance. It has to be restricted to the effects found on gear that goes in weapon slots specifically because the player can repeatedly swap to them at will to compound their effects (the Outworn Buckler's aura that reduces hostile effects behaves similarly when repeatedly swapped) and you can even setup an in-game AI script to maximally accomplish this.

This would be a slight nerf to Black Jacket Fighters but I think Black Jackets already have strong meta potential by occupying this liminal zone between recovery with their instant swap ability. Only now they're no longer unintended time lords with the ability to warp the forces of time around them.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.
i do think the way recovery works specifically with those items that increase/decrease times is a little buggy yeah. wonder if it has to do with the weirdness of the math with the negative inversions?

dorudugan doesnt really "feel" like the hardest part of an ultimate run to me tho?

moot the hopple
Apr 26, 2008

dyslexic Bowie clone
He's got the highest native accuracy and hits quite hard so in a sense he's a good measuring stick for what defensive stats you'd need to build against. By basically rendering him toothless for his particular fight with the above trick, you've technically lowered that ceiling a bit for yourself. In a practical sense however, you tend to still need tankier stats as a concession to the solo playstyle of the Ultimate so it may not allow you to shave off that many points you'd otherwise need for survivability's sake. But I think it does open up a very intriguing window of opportunity for builds other than the ones that have solved the equation of the Ultimate with a combination of refreshing class resources, Barring Death's Door, and Salvation of Time, and being able to protect Vela with the Withdraw spell (which explains the preponderance of priest as a multi on the plaque of Ultimate winners).

It's still early days for the discovery of this new trick, but it is a proof of concept that has strong potential for Ultimate challengers.

rocketrobot
Jul 11, 2003

Zeerust posted:

That, and I was inspired by the conversation upthread to try to make a go of a Fireball Barbarian build, and combining Carnage with Firebrand really does make fights go a lot quicker.

I prefer the stunball muscle wizard. That said, the phantoms at Caed Nua were significantly harder for me that the Temple of Eothas. But, I didn't roll a custom party so maybe that explains it. Everything before that just melted away.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008

Since this is sort of kind of an Obsidian general thread, some great news was posted today:

https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/1770451086152753324

Alpha Protocol's back, babyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!

I'm getting back into this game (PoE2) and it's rough because the game is fun, but there are so many interesting class combinations to try out... and also bc there's frustration when you're building a character out of the formal attributes in your head and the game necessarily fails to account for what you'd call intersectionality to resemble those particular concepts.

For example -- I made myself a passionate Orlan rogue-cipher, an former slave, from Rauatai. "Former slave from Rauatai" should have a very particular implication, but you are only ever a former slave or a person from Rauatai. Hence people are constantly coming at me assuming I'm a Rauataian nationalist... which I guess might be fair if I were that particular subcultural sharkman, but I'm clearly not. These people don't even know how to do racism right!

In any event, you come to appreciate why being from the Dyrwood wasn't an option in PoE1, even beyond the excuse that gave to introduce the particular setting to you.

Kith
Sep 17, 2009

You never learn anything
by doing it right.


speaking of ciphers, is it just me or are mono-flavored ciphers kinda underwhelming compared to other mono classes

moot the hopple
Apr 26, 2008

dyslexic Bowie clone
I could honestly live without any of their single class-exclusive spells. All their PL8 abilities are a bit of a downgrade compared to their POE1 versions with Defensive Mindweb now dropping allies from the web if hit, Time Parasite not being as impressive without the zero recovery meta of POE1, and Reaping Knives being a mixed bag of first not nearly generating as much Focus for the casting cipher as claimed on the incorrect tooltip and secondly replacing an ally's weapons is often a downgrade for me at the point Reaping Knives becomes available because I can spec and kit a weapon user to be way more damaging or useful with actual weapons and their enchantments, even in situations when RK's raw damage may be relevant. By the time I've reached the PL9 spells, I've already come across earlier penetration aids, debuffs, hard CC, and damage spells that are more Focus efficient -- of the three high level spells, Driving Echoes is the most appreciable to me as the biggest buff to penetration, but I can deal with enemy armor issues without it. Again, it's all stuff that I can live without as a multi-class cipher.

When I go single-class cipher, the main thing I look forward to is the Shared Nightmare passive which scales your AoE size with the amount of your current Focus. This notably modifiers all AoE size so you can also use AoE weapons like Frostseeker, mortars, and rods with their modal activated to really good effect. Beguilers in particular really pop off with Shared Nightmare due to their ability to generate Focus from Deception spells and now being able to hit more and more enemies for even more Focus gain the more spells they cast. In fact, of all the cipher subclasses, I gravitate towards Beguiler if I'm going single-class -- not necessarily because I think the single-class spells are all that great, but so I can get faster progression towards the relevant Deception spells to fuel my spellcasting. Soul Blades and Ascendants I'm more prone to multiclassing with martial classes to supplement their damage and Focus generation while Psions I tend to multiclass with other casters as a fallback spell tank that I can wait to fill up while I'm casting my main class's spell pool.

Thinking more on it, Psion is another reasonable subclass option for single-classing cipher since the rate of their passive Focus scales with power level. I'm just a little leery because they're arguably the worse off if something like a long DoT knocks them out of commission and they don't have having Soul Whip or a multi-class's alternative power pool to fall back on. In which case, Reaping Knives suddenly goes up in value for specifically single-classed Psions because it gives them an alternative Focus generation if their passive is ever disabled.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011
It seems like an Ascendant would get the most benefit from Shared Nightmares though, since they would get ever-increasing areas as Focus builds until it maxes out and they can just go ham with max AoE spells for awhile.

moot the hopple
Apr 26, 2008

dyslexic Bowie clone
It depends on if you see Shared Nightmare more as a supplement for Focus generation as it is in the case for the Beguiler or as a magnifier for Cipher spells as it is for the Ascendant.

I think it first comes down to your preference of single-class or multi-class for an Ascendant. With an Ascendant, I personally prefer the multiclassing route with a martial class like Ranger and an AoE weapon like Frostseeker or the Watershaper's Focus in order to get to the Ascended stage in the first place, which cuts you off from Shared Nightmare but lets you hit max Focus often after only one attack thanks to Ranger's ranged attack bounce and their accuracy/crit potential with those weapons. This tradeoff provides you with a more repeatable setup for becoming Ascended multiple times throughout the encounter. But what if you didn't care about repeatability and wanted to maximize your spell damage output once Ascended? Then there's a lot to be said for single-classing an Ascendant, such as getting more power levels to stack on the PL bonus you're already geting once Ascended and maximizing Shared Nightmare's AoE size as you suggest since their Focus stays at the cap while Ascended. There's even good weapons for a single-classed Ascendant like Kitchen Stove with its per-encounter blast or Amira's Wing with its strong per-rest nukes which can let you immediately become Ascended after one attack, though they won't have the same punch after expending their uses like the weapons and won't as easily be able to get back to Ascended as the multiclass setup. Both are valid and essentially boils down to whether you prefer burst over sustain.

The second part of your conjecture is more the role of Beguiler vs. Ascendant. Even though they share the same base class, I think their subclass differences completely change how they operate. With an Ascendant, due to the steep PL penalty when not Ascended, you tend to not want to cast your spells immediately at the start of the encounter and need to build up Focus first, which may require several strings of attacks if not using some of the aforementioned weapons. Once Ascended, you're also usually locked into casting only the high-cost, heavy hitting AoE damage spells like Amplified Wave due to the way that power level bonuses skews towards having the most effect with damage spells and the fact that you're incentivized to use the more expensive spells to make efficient use of your 100% discounted spells while Ascended. On the other hand, because they gain Focus from casting Deception spells, Beguilers want to Always Be Casting. This is why I say that Shared Nightmare is really great on them because it gives them greater area of effect to hit more targets and gain ever more Focus the more they cast. Granted, they have first hit targets with an Affliction or Flanking to activate their subclass bonus, but this is easily achieved with the Deception spells that you're already casting in the first case, all of which will usually generate more Focus than they cost to cast. So not only will you debuff enemies by making them easier to hit, locking them down in place, disabling all their abilities except for auto-attacks, making them under penetration, mass charming, but you will hit all of their attributes and defenses while gaining Focus. You can then use this overflow of Focus to cast whatever other non-Deception spells you need, which makes Beguilers more flexible and reactive compared to Ascendants, who can also cast these spells out of sequence of Ascended but will suffer a penalty or opportunity cost. It boils down to the role of a dedicated nuker versus a debuffer who can pivot to other areas of the overall cipher kit.

TL;DR Shared Nightmare benefits both subclasses in different ways and you'd have to look at what you really want to do with a cipher. In the context of the single-class cipher discussion, I brought up Beguilers with Shared Nightmare as the least objectionable single-class possibility. Otherwise, I still find multiclassing cipher the route I'd want to go, personally.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever

Having beaten Baldur's Gate 3, and then finishing a playthrough of the original trilogy, I've picked up my playthrough of Deadfire again, which is still in the early phases. My main is a tempest (barb/druid). Are there any must-have skills/spells/items I should look at? I'm very out of practice with this game and want to make sure i'm building a character with decent synergy. I'd taken the character through POE 1 already as a Barbarian, and added in Druid for some flavor when importing to Deadfire. Are there good synergies with these two classes?

Edit: also, am I the only person who thinks the red carpets in Periki’s Overlook look like traps?

chaosapiant fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Apr 7, 2024

mitochondritom
Oct 3, 2010

There's a really good pike that synergies well with Druid electroshock spells and I think would also work as a solid barbarian weapon. Could try to build around that. It's called Lord Derek's Volgue or something like that.

moot the hopple
Apr 26, 2008

dyslexic Bowie clone

chaosapiant posted:

Having beaten Baldur's Gate 3, and then finishing a playthrough of the original trilogy, I've picked up my playthrough of Deadfire again, which is still in the early phases. My main is a tempest (barb/druid). Are there any must-have skills/spells/items I should look at? I'm very out of practice with this game and want to make sure i'm building a character with decent synergy. I'd taken the character through POE 1 already as a Barbarian, and added in Druid for some flavor when importing to Deadfire. Are there good synergies with these two classes?

Edit: also, am I the only person who thinks the red carpets in Periki’s Overlook look like traps?

There's some really good synergies with this multiclass and you can take it in a few different directions to amplify their combined strengths.

If you go with Lord Darryn's Volgue like mitochondritom suggests and I second, I recommend soulbinding it to your Druid side. That way you get the weapon benefits for both side of your multiclass, namely the +3 Storm PL for Druid spells and the weapon feature that lets you apply stacking shock damage charges which is great on Barbarians because their Carnage hits will also apply it. If you soulbind it instead to your Barbarian side, you lose out on the spell power levels but gain the added ability to apply Disoriented with your shock damage stacks. While this is good for debuffing enemies and making them easier to hit, Barbarians already have a better synergy with this multiclass that helps them hit enemies which I'll get into later. I think soulbinding as a Druid with this weapon just gives you more bang for your buck.

If you want to lean in on the shock spell damage potential, you can use the Deltro's Cage plate armor, but that does require you to choose an outcome to the feuding Vailian families quest where you kill the Bardatto matron to take the armor off her. Deltro's Cage then gives you +2 Electricity PL on top of the +3 Storm PL that Lord Darryn's Volgue is granting you. Note that not all shock damage spells will necessarily have both the Electricity or Storm keywords. Fortunately, Druids have access to some of the best spells which benefit from both keywords at the same time in the form of Returning Storm and Relentless Storm which really pop off with the cumulative +5 PL boost from your gear. (Another further note is that Returning Storm and Relentless Storm will not stack at the same time and will overwrite each other so it's best to cast your Relentless Storms first until their duration runs out and then use Returning Storm for the rest of the battle). I don't normally love putting heavy armor on my casters because it slows their spellcasting down, but it makes sense here on a Barbarian/Druid multiclass that needs to get into melee range for their Carnage attacks and Barbarians have ways of overcoming the heavy armor recovery malus which I'll get into later. Stacking armor is one of the better routes to go for survivability on a Barbarian, who gets a -10 Deflection penalty when they use Frenzy. You have a good AR baseline with the Barbarian passive Thick Skinned and the situational AR Druid spells like Form of the Delemgan and Weather the Storm. Along with your excellent Druid healing spells and all the periodic stunning you'll be doing with your Storm spells, a perhaps glassier-built Barbarian/Druid can wade into the frontlines more safely than some other hybrid multis.

One of the crowning jewels for Barbarians is their Brute Force passive which allows them to target an enemy's Fortitude defense instead Deflection if it is lower. This also works on spells by the way, though not many Druid spells that I mention in this post will target Deflection. The main synergy here is debuffing Fortitude to help your Barbarian hit enemies easier in melee, which our Druid spells will help accomplish. First, you can take the Spirit Frenzy upgrade which allows you to apply the Might affliction Staggered to everything you hit, even with hits on spells that you cast while Frenzied. Then you can use Druid spells that apply a Constitution affliction like Venombloom or Plague of Insects. So a Spirit Frenzied Barbarian who casts Venombloom will also cumulatively debuff an enemy's Fortitude score by -20, thanks to the Might and Constitution afflictions that are applying. You can keep a morningstar with the modal activated as your secondary weapon or equip it on another party member and it'll debuff enemies for a further -25 Fortitude, severely tanking their defenses and making them vulnerable to follow up hits/crits, especially with Lord Darryn's Volgue which can trigger all its shock stacks upon critting.

Another general synergy is to take the Barbarian recovery and action speed boosting passives Bloodlust and Blood Thirst. You can cast long-lasting DoT spells like Plague of Insects, Infestation of Maggots, and Insect Swarm in order to increase the likelihood that your Barbarian/Druid gets the final killing blow on enemies, constantly triggering these passives and making up for the recovery malus of Deltro's Cage. Similarly, there's a late game estoc, Engoliero do Espirs, that triggers a lifestealing form of the Wizard spell Ghost Blades every time you kill something. That's with any kill, including kills from the weapon, but also Carnage and spell kills, making it a really nice weapon to switch to in order to mow down and chain kill waves of weakened enemies as the fight progresses.

mitochondritom
Oct 3, 2010

My first playthrough of Deadfire was with a druid, but drat, I am about to download it again and go with this Barb Druid multi class on this basis of this post alone 😂

moot the hopple
Apr 26, 2008

dyslexic Bowie clone
Here's some more druid/barbarian ideas if you didn't want to use the earlier suggested weapon and armor combo or commit to the roleplaying decision required to get the armor. These might even work better depending on your subclass choices.

Lance of the Midwood Stag: As a reach weapon, it lets you attack from afar/behind a tanking ally if your build is more glass cannon-y and you sacrificed some defensive attributes. More importantly, it comes with an enchantment that grants +2 PL level whenever you're under the effects of a Plant or Beast keyword effect. This can be accomplished quite easily by casting your Druid spells Woodskin or Form of the Delemgan. The weapon has inherent synergy with itself by automatically casting Woodskin on yourself when you drop to half health, thus activating the power level bonus without having to cast a spell. The power level bonus are generic and will affect both your spells and Carnage. Carnage is noteworthy because it gets an enhanced damage bonus from power levels, even moreso than what PLs normally grant -- this is multiplicative damage, too, making power level stacking on Barbarians pretty valuable for Carnage purposes. This weapon also has some interesting implications on your race choice. Nature godlikes can stack power levels further with their racial bonus which will be pretty much active constantly on this multiclass thanks to Frenzy. If you're planning on going the low health route to self-activate Woodskin from the weapon, then the extra accuracy and damage from Human's Fighting Spirit passive would be nice. And if you like to live on the edge and stay on the threshold of near death, Death godlikes can be even spicier with their greater PL bonus and their damage bonus against low health enemies which synergizes with some of Barbarian's other passives.

The Spine of Thicket Green: This is the more conservative weapon choice and really nice for a more healer based build like a Lifegiver subclass, especially after you upgrade it to boost Rejuvenation spells. I often find the power level penalty you get with healing after spiritshifting as a Lifegiver to be more of a detriment when stacked up against the benefit of higher power level you get while spiritshifted, so this weapon can offer enough of a bonus along with the Lifegiver's baseline subclass bonus to obsolete the need for spiritshifting entirely. Alternatively, you can still keep Lifegiver spiritshifting in your back pocket whenever you need a huge boost in healing power during emergencies, and this weapon will partly counteract the penalty afterwards. Another non-Lifegiver option is just to lean in on the alternative Plant and Beast keyword upgrade and power up your spells like Venombloom and Plague of Insects instead. This quarterstaff is also a reach weapon so you can attack from the back ranks, or stay on the frontlines and activate the defensive modal while you're casting and turn it off when you're out of spells or ready to start melee attacking.

Slayer's Claw: A great buffing tool because it upgrades your Frenzy to provide +2 Penetration every time you Frenzy. This affects even spells, which is important if you're playing on POTD difficulty and want to use some of the direct elemental damage spells. This is great on a Fury subclass who also gets a penetration bonus with these spells. I would combine it Griffin's Blade on the off-hand to provide even more spell damage bonus. It's a great spellcasting statstick set on a nuker Fury/Barbarian and can do admirable work in its own right as an attack weapon thanks to the penetration bonuses you get when soulbound to a Barbarian.

The Changeling's Mantle: One of my favorite armor pieces is the Miscreant's Leather armor set because it is light armor that has less of a recovery penalty, but I don't always like killing Benwith for it even though he's a little poo poo. The Changeling's Mantle is a nice alternative for this multiclass because it has the same relevant properties, plus it is a soulbound item that can be upgraded through tasks rather than spending materials and gold. Whether your soulbind it to your Druid or Barbarian side will be a matter of taste but I don't think it's too important in the long run since the Shaken debuff proc or the increased action speed from Carnage attacks is only relevant on encounters with Beasts, which matters more in the early game and during the Seeker, Slayer, Survivor DLC where you find this armor. Technically, some of the bosses like dragons count as Beasts but they're usually immune/resistant to Resolve afflictions and Carnage doesn't affect the primary target, unfortunately, rendering those bonuses moot. I just think this armor looks very cool and the little familiar pets that it randomly summons are cute and give a nice, small bonus.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever

That is all great info and precisely what I'm looking for, thank you! Currently I believe the way the family feud quest is going, i won't be able to get that armor. But that's ok, I generally don't like making quest choices based on the rewards; I prefer to roleplay a bit. I'll Google that voulge weapon to see where it is and check it out. Thanks for all the great advice! I've been playing so much DnD that picking up my Deadfire playthrough is a bit cumbersome, even though I've played the game once before to completion.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

chaosapiant posted:

That is all great info and precisely what I'm looking for, thank you! Currently I believe the way the family feud quest is going, i won't be able to get that armor. But that's ok, I generally don't like making quest choices based on the rewards; I prefer to roleplay a bit. I'll Google that voulge weapon to see where it is and check it out. Thanks for all the great advice! I've been playing so much DnD that picking up my Deadfire playthrough is a bit cumbersome, even though I've played the game once before to completion.

It's easy to get and has one of the best soul bound upgrade requirements I've ever seen.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever

I'm using Intimidate a lot more on this playthrough, as a mighty barb, and find it amusing just how many fights i can avoid by glaring and threatening people. My first playthrough was mostly diplomacy, so intimidate is new for me.

Having just spent the first part of the year binging BG 1, 2, and 3 (plus expansions) there are so many QOL things in Deadfire that I took for granted. A couple of my favorites:

1. Everyone can use every weapon. Proficiency just means getting a modal and those are often situational at best.
2. No encumbrance/infinite storage. I genuinely don't mind encumbrance and inventory tetris in my RPGs, but I also love when I'm playing a game where I can go hog wild, pick up everything with impunity, and then sift through it to find usable gear/consumables, etc.
3. Being able to re-target spells prior to them being cast. Very helpful when enemies are generally moving towards your party while you're trying to target them with AOE spells.

I think right now I'm seeing BG3 and Deadfire as the best of the best of western party-based RPGs and they both do things so well, but so differently that I can't pick a clear winner.

Node
May 20, 2001

KICKED IN THE COOTER
:dings:
Taco Defender
Can people theoretically make a new campaign using Deadfire's mod tools, or are they just not as powerful/sophisticated/flexible/whatever as, say, Neverwinter Night's was?

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Node posted:

Can people theoretically make a new campaign using Deadfire's mod tools, or are they just not as powerful/sophisticated/flexible/whatever as, say, Neverwinter Night's was?

Not possible, since all you're really capable of doing with the available mod tools is either script hooks or modifying plain text values. Even if you could add new areas, the actual process of creating a map is rather technically complex compared to a standard 3D scene and likely outside the scope of what anyone but the most dedicated mod team could accomplish.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever

Speaking of mods, are there any must-have mods for Deadfire or PoE1? I've never used mods before in these games.

Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007

Moralists don't really *have* beliefs. Sometimes they stumble on one, like on a child's toy left on the carpet. The toy must be put away immediately. And the child reprimanded.

I've never bothered to mod Pillars 1. For Deadfire, I don't believe there are any "must-have" mods, the game plays fine vanilla. But here's some mods I like:

Enhanced UI
Community Patch
Everyone's Two Cents

The Enhanced UI makes it a lot easier to keep track of how the giant pile of keywords interact with each other.

The Community Patch has bugfixes and typo corrections, and some optional balance tweaks if you want.

Everyone's Two Cents is for some extra dialogue from companions; in a lot of story areas you'll only get lines from one companion but this mod makes it so everyone chimes in. It occasionally leads to some oddities when the game's scripting wasn't anticipating four people speaking up, but I never ran into any major issues using it and it was nice to hear everyone's dialogue.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.
pillars 1 has a good everybody’s two cents equivalent, and imo one of the fire arms balancing mods is nice. those are the only major ones though.

Also IE Mod adds a toooon of QoL so I guess I just lied to you all for no reason

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever

What is the IE Mod exactly? I've got the Enhanced UI installed for Deadfire and like the color coding stuff it does.

Kith
Sep 17, 2009

You never learn anything
by doing it right.


At some point I need to redo my Firearm Rebalance. In retrospect, crush/pierce on Blunderbusses makes them too versatile.

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist

chaosapiant posted:

Having just spent the first part of the year binging BG 1, 2, and 3 (plus expansions) there are so many QOL things in Deadfire that I took for granted. A couple of my favorites:

1. Everyone can use every weapon. Proficiency just means getting a modal and those are often situational at best.

This is so important and weapon specialization is so irritating in other games.

In BG3 I don't think it's as bad as in other games, partly because the scale is sensible and the power curve is not as big as in other games. But Pathfinder games and even Newerwinter 2 is unsufferable because of this. Due to d20 math getting behind the power curve feels horrible, and unless you know exactly what you're doing having small hit bonus from specialization might mean cutting out a quarter of your misses. In practice this means that you look at dozens great artifacts of power and see that Great Scythe of Luminous Destruction +3 will be worse for your character than Second Hand Two-Handed Sword +3, and you'll remember this scythe for an eventual playthrough as a character who wields scythes. Unless I seriously misunderstand the system, in Pathfinder/D&D 3e most characters will specialize in just one weapon out of ~30 which means that even with a big party most of weapons you find are automatically sent to vendor trash bag. In PoE2 even if you are obsessed with only using the weapons you can activate modals for you'll be able to equip a lot of different weapons for every character.

mitochondritom
Oct 3, 2010

The above is the sole reason that I can't abide the Pathfinder games. It's so absurd that you can't just use the cool stuff you find because I didn't have the foresight to spec into some niche weapon from level 1, and if you don't have 3+ feats, well, you're just hosed son.

It's a solved problem (i.e just make it go away, or make groups like Pillars did). Why does it exist. Ugh.

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion


I'd love for Owlcat to go really into depth on a PF2E game, but I don't think they're fans of the system. That's a shame, because it's a great system.

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Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

mitochondritom posted:

The above is the sole reason that I can't abide the Pathfinder games. It's so absurd that you can't just use the cool stuff you find because I didn't have the foresight to spec into some niche weapon from level 1, and if you don't have 3+ feats, well, you're just hosed son.

It's a solved problem (i.e just make it go away, or make groups like Pillars did). Why does it exist. Ugh.

They're bound by using 1st edition pathfinder. It's just outdated.

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