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Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect
So!

when I played this game back at release, it seemed like there were quite a few bugs that could cause quests to break, or not be offered if you did certain things out of order.

in particular, I got locked out of some huana related quests because I went to the slaver area early, and killed everyone. this seemed to stop me from doing some quests with them - I couldn't quite figure it out, but I missed an entire plot chain around the slavers as a result.

I was wondering if there's a particular order I should approach the various faction quests in relation to the main quest, and if there's any big sidequests I should be approaching in a certain order so I don't break the scripting/sequencing this time around.

One I'm already aware of is the gullet quest (avoid the elevator down into the old city, instead go through the chain of quests in the gullet that leads you there instead).

anything else? any other advice? I want to see as much of the game as I can in this run, and am planning to side with the huana at the end.

Party this time around is:
me (no subclass, single class monk)
Eder (swashbuckler - secondary tank/damage)
aloth (fighter/mage - main tank)
Xoti (single class priest - already regretting not multi-classing her, support frontliner)
fifth spot is floating (currently Tekehu as as single class druid).

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Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

Ratios and Tendency posted:

Going down the elevator is fine, just don't explore to deeper maps or rest while it's waiting for you.

Avalerion posted:

In regards to the slavers, all three factions eventually give you a quest to go deal with them (one way or another), I like waiting for that before I go in to slaughter them all.

Miftan posted:

To add on to what everyone else said, the quests sometimes overlap so it's best to do one from each faction and then the next faction instead of blazing through one quest line because they'll sometimes have contradictory objectives at the same location.

thanks everyone! Now to get lost around Neketaka for the next 8-10 hours doing sidequests.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

nerdz posted:

this is insane and I love it


Barbarian with sky high levels of intimidation was extremely satisfying for my last playthrough. The game has a ton of intimidation checks for the best things

Oof this is a great idea.

I’m midway through my second run (single class monk), but it’s time to restart again to try this out.

I never play an evil character in these games, so maybe this is the time to do it.

I’m thinking barb multiclass but not sure what the best option will be. How are barbarian/chanters? Maybe I could do one that focuses on stripping armour and providing offensive buffs for the frontline?

How is barb/bleak walker?

I’d probably want Maia, Eder and xoti in the core party.

Any thoughts ?

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

kilus aof posted:

From my experience with X-COM: Apocalypse, Arcanum and Fallout: Tactics which all had real time and turn based modes you'll get enemies that are weak in one mode become hard in the other and vice versa. Same with the power of player's weapons and abilities. Turn based and real time just play out so differently.

Yeah, really excited to see how this plays out and even how mechanics like spell cast time, spell durations, buff and debuff durations, dot times etc all interact with a turn based system.

I noticed from that little clip that there will still be time for longer casting spells to be interruptible and I am not even sure how action speed etc are going to work.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

Walrus Pete posted:

Turn-based mode is going to make me care so much more about interrupts. I was on the "set up detailed AI scripts to reduce micromanagement" side of things in Deadfire so I didn't make good use of them often. But with an enemy ending their turn mid-cast, just asking to be interrupted, it's gonna be fantastic.

So pumped for this ! Concentration is going to become way more important to keep track of for both your casters and theirs, and I can see the value of a character like Maia (or just a ranged interrupter role) become way more important.

Hmm suddenly a whole bunch of those cipher spells that interrupt seem more interesting.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

ilitarist posted:

Dragon Age Inquisition is more similar to PoE RtwP than you might think. They shot themselves in the foot by making tactical combat UI horrible so that you better pause and switch between characters than use tactical camera. They also fill it with thrash fights and tune default difficulty so that you can play through the game relying on AI personalities and doing little extra activities like crafting. My wife loves the series but she doesn't enjoy rtwp much so DAO wasn't very fun for her. In DAO you have to be involved with combat no matter what difficulty you're playing, the same thing with PoE1 where your companions don't have a good AI so you can't just control a single character.

Still, DAI has all the right parts. On higher difficulties it's tactical. Even more so, it's strategic like PoE1: you have a limited number of healing items and there are only a few ways to heal yourself without using potions, so you have to go back to your camp and rest from time to time. They also added special difficulty options and those make both combat and social elements much more important. E.g. negative opinion gain is doubled with one option so it's hard to keep a full team, some companions will probably leave eventually. Or various enemies get random specialized buffs a la Diablo 2 mini-bosses. It's still not a great tactical game - it's more about sustainability than quick clever tactics - but it's close.

Unfortunately I felt that game broke a lot of the tension around healing the moment you started crafting armour on hit gear - which would allow fast attacking characters to gain permanent armor and avoid any health damage.

This was amplified with the trespasser update that gave warriors a buff to one of their warhorn abilities that let their entire party gain an armor on hit buff for its duration.

I’d just rush to that ability on nightmare mode and then things would get a lot easier before I even left the first zone.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect
Most intrigued to see how chanter phrases build up and how often their auras tick and just how that even feels in turn-based mode.

Download nearly done, looking forward to trying this out.

Boo at retargeting being disabled.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect
immediate thoughts on turn-based mode:

- okay I'm respeccing, because anyone who can access some sort of teleport/movement ability needs it NOW.
- that warrior grab ability is something I will actually now use.
- my bleak-walker/skald herald tank is feeling super flimsy and weak so far. (probably a concession of going bleak walker, but I wanted to roleplay as one this time around so I decided against something like the kind wayfarers or shield bearers)
- I just quite quite figure out how engagement is working and how to get it to really stick.
- I usually play this game on veteran (PoTD is just too much for me), and in turn based I am chewing up consumables & item charges left and right. this is great - because combat is so fast paced in real time with pause, I sometimes forget to use a scroll or chomp down a potion when needed.
- gorecci street sucked (those archers), I had to re-do it once or twice.


I'm looking forward to seeing them re-balance around action speed & recovery times, but for now, this is quite good.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

User posted:

I wonder what percent of BG players had never played AD&D before. I'm guessing it was pretty low.
Actually, this was me and all my friends in school.

Baldur’s gate was our gateway to D&D and more complex mechanics in games in general.

I learned everything about the ruleset thanks to gamefaqs.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

RPZip posted:

What's busted in it so far? Looking over it it looks like action speed is just initiative now, which seems significantly less important.

I know that having weapon swap cost a turn is super annoying, especially as it’s going to really grate when I get into fights with penetration issues later.

But yes the action speed and initiative one is the main deal along with fast attacking weaker weapons (like daggers) struggling to keep up with two handers.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

Azran posted:

Opinions on Turn Based mode?

I love it.

Has really made me value consumables, items and use all my abilities in fights. I find I’m empowering for more resources far more frequently and considering spells and abilities I would have otherwise missed in the past.

The downside is it needs a serious balancing fix and there are fundamental issues with the way certain classes are built that doesn’t translate well in turn-based yet ( any class that wants lots of action speed and -recovery time suffers here).

I’d like to see the entire hit/graze/crit and accuracy system reworked for turn based (it’s just too slow otherwise) - or - whole encounters need to be retuned with less mobs but stronger ones.

It has a very different meta to the standard game which is fun and fine, I just want classes like monks to feel ‘fast’ and at the moment - they don’t.

My hot tip - take mobility skills! Escape is broken-good.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

cuntman.net posted:

how do i see what a status effect does if its on an enemy

This has been annoying me for around 120 hours of game time so far as well. I bet I’m missing something obvious

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect
Having so much fun in my turn based play through so far but I did make a huge mistake of multiclassing xoti.

While a single class cipher feels fun moving between casting turns & focus generating, xoti jumping between monk duties and priest stuff (buffing, debuffing and healing) just doesn’t work as well.

At the moment I’m just having her run headfirst into packs and tank with dance of death/blade turning, which means she has zero action points to do anything but refresh blade turning.

The priest/monk kit never worked super well together but boy does turn-based really highlight it.

Oh well, I’ll drop her for vatnir I guess.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect
Keen to dig into some of those balance changes.

Knockdown status giving -deflection is good (otherwise it just felt a bit useless given how it worked) and I’m interested to see how much the damage boost to one handed weapons is.

I think dex = stride is good too. Stride is def. useful for positioning in turn based.

Still waiting to see if they’ll cap free actions in some way (a hunter spamming evasive fire 7-8 times in a single turn is silly) and if they’ll make a bigger tweak to benefit faster speedy builds, but these are all great steps in the right direction.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

cuntman.net posted:

you should try the barbarians spirit tornado. its a free action that does aoe damage and terrify

Also upgraded fighter grab move that lowers deflection - you can grab and set everyone up and debuff them at the same.

Free actions being able to be spammed multiple times a turn sure needs a tweak.

I’m all for being able to use lots of free actions in a turn (ie setting up your wizard buffs), but repeatedly spamming spirit tornado to melt things is a bit silly.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

I believe if you look through the nexus comment thread for the unity mod there's a file you can download to make it work post 3.0 . I did manage to change character classes about two weeks ago, though there was the patch yesterday. I reallocated a bunch of skills last night and it worked fine.

Curious - I’m assuming this mod lets you change character classes mid-run.

I’d be keen to respec xoti out of multiclass monk/priest if I could.

Maybe I should give it a whirl.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

Digital Osmosis posted:

So I got the Unity console working, letting me change companion's classes,

I'm struggling to get it working on the latest patch, how did you fix it?

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

pmchem posted:

I'm a bit worried about TBM-specific balance changes (like the deflection when knocked down thing, and who knows what else). If the two modes diverge greatly in the actual effects of skills, that would be unfortunate. I'd rather that they tweak the actual TBM mechanics further and not play whack-a-mole with individual skills.

this is one of those changes that I feel is actually necessary for turn-based. knockdown doesn't cancel out an enemy's turn (they immediately get back up as soon as their turn comes up in that round), so it was next to useless outside of the interrupt prior to this change.

now if you have initiative and knockdown someone early, you can take advantage of their weakened deflection before they pop back up and have their turn.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

Prism posted:

Same, but Skyward Kick (my main is a monk).

Turns out that if you're running the dance that gives you 2 wounds a round, you can keep a single target locked down with Skyward Kick for ages.

Or melee tank forever with blade turning. Dance is so good in tbm.

Just a thought - if they were to make knockdown function like stun/paralyse and take away a turn/action - then it would be wildly overpowered compared to other higher level abilities that offer the same function but for more resource cost etc.

I’m really into the fighter grab ability that debuffs as a free action. Oof yeah.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect
I dunno, but unless you’re professionally working in games development and have intimate knowledge on unity and the complexities of the QA process of games; maybe best not to armchair huff about how outrageous and lazy game developers are.

Just a thought, I dunno.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

Pellisworth posted:

I dunno about Arcane Archer, but I've been using Maia as a ranger/rogue on PotD turn-based and she's my highest damage dealer. Rogue gives her the Escape ability for positioning and some strong passives, Arterial Strike is a great interrupt. Having an on-demand ranged interrupt is incredibly powerful in turn-based.

Me too. Between her, Eder, Konstanten and my herald pc character, no one is getting a spell off unless it’s a free action.

Lockdown squad - most fights involve konstanten and my herald taking turns to paralyse entire groups while Eder and Maia melt everything else around them and use a few key interrupts as needed.

Upgraded into the fray is also amazing for stripping defenses and pulling someone into the range of chanter cc shouts.

I’ve got serafen in there too for debuffs and positional cipher abilities but he feels slightly redundant compared to the rest of the crew at the moment.

Might replace him with aloth in full nuke/aoe damage mode.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

PirateBob posted:

Too late now. Maybe there's some dialogue stat check that needs 15. :shobon:

Don't suppose there's any way to change your hero's voice after the game has started? The preview in character creation doesn't reveal that the stoic sounding Vox dude will speak like a smug twat.

There is, If you go to your character’s stat sheet there’ll be two buttons under their portrait: one that lets you preview their skill tree and the other that lets you change the portrait and voice:

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

PirateBob posted:

Am I supposed to multi-class my companions too? When you pay to retrain someone, can you change their class?

And what about armor in turn based, do I just use the heaviest stuff because initiative doesn't matter?
You can multiclass them if you want. Some companions work better multiclassed (I can’t imagine Eder as a single class and Maia is almost always better as a multi) but you may find some companions work better single classes (serafen as a pure Barb or xoti as a priest for example).


You can favor heavier armor in turn based but I still like my casters to have medium armour so they can act earlier in rounds as needed.

Unfortunately you can’t respec their class once picked - my current game has me stuck with a multiclass xoti that I massively regret.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

PirateBob posted:



Btw, if anyone reading this is wondering, the unique arquebus The Red Hand is arguably not worth the money in turn based, compared to a regular exceptional arquebus. The main thing about it is that it gives you 2 shots before reloading, but this obviously doesn't matter in turn based.
i’m still using it on Maia in my turn based run and it does weird and fantastic things with her initiative.

She almost always goes first in every round and in general seems super strong.

Thoughts though - any other potential weapons I should try out with her?

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

Heithinn Grasida posted:

All perception afflictions cause flanked, actually flanking an enemy causes flanked and the cipher spell “Phantom Foes” causes flanked. I don’t think anything else causes it, at least that I can recall right now. Phantom foes and chill fog are likely the best bets for getting flanked on all enemies.

Yeah a high int cipher is going to cover the whole screen with the aoe for phantom foes. Easily the best way to mass flank.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

Ginette Reno posted:

I was wondering about that because I had Xoti start using it recently and she is hitting like a truck.

Me too - it’s wonderful and ropekid don’t you change it please.

I’ve finally settled into a groove with multiclass xoti in this run. First 3 rounds or so are buffs - while I let her use dance of death to max her wounds. She gets up to about +10 int on herself from duality in that time as well as dance of death just stacks wounds so fast.

Then she either goes to town on someone with the flail with modal on or uses blade turning to melee tank.

I’m wondering if I might go for the extra damage per wound upgrade with turning wheel and not spend wounds unless desperate.

Also swift strikes has come into its own now that i understand the value of all the stride it gives you.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

ilitarist posted:

Coming back to the game after a vacation I see a lot of very long battles which makes me hesitant to try turn-based on my next playthrough. It may be my coward focus on sustain and PotD difficulty. My party is Monk, Fighter/Rogue, Paladin/Wizard, Cipher/Rogue, Chanter/Druid. Some battles take forever even when I quickly dispose of lesser foes. Like that fight against a guy with a lantern in portal quest. It was long in realtime, I've switched to a quicker speed at some point.

Maybe it feels longer because I start the battle in a very slow mode and pause all the time.

I was worried about how slow things would take in turn based but I’m really enjoying the pace of my current turn based game.

The only thing that’s really annoying is the priest spell withdraw. It lasts way too long in turn based.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

JawKnee posted:

stealth isn't a problem then? What I'd read was that smoke veil doesn't allow for attacking from stealth any longer

Shadowing beyond is an essential skill to take if you want to use backstab/attacks from stealth as your primary way of doing damage.

It costs a lot of guile tho.

But to be honest you get so much value as a rogue in turn based that losing easy backstabs and riposte being a bit trash isn’t a dealbreaker. the level 1 one guile free action teleport +50 deflection is so so powerful and super fun to use.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Bring back on-hit weapon proc carnage

Considering how limp barbs are in turn based, this would be welcome.

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

Digital Osmosis posted:

I'm kind of considering trying the Vela challenge in the near future. She follows the PC very closely, right? Seems like the ideal party would be pretty tank heavy, with the PC and another party member doing backline single DPS. I imagine that might end up with the fights taking forever, though. Has anyone found success with Hylea's challenge?

I’m thinking you’ll want lots of scrolls of withdraw & barring deaths door, a priest and maybe a Druid (beetle shell).

Turn based may make it a lot easier, as withdraw lasts like 5+ rounds.

Having a tank or two built around punishing enemies who disengage could be a good way to go as well.

If you’re going turn based, a skald can cast the paralyse & stun shouts 3 rounds in a row (then empower to cast more) locking down large fields of enemies for a very long time.

Fighters can also stun large packs with charge.

You can also use a stealthed character to lay a trap before combat so you can corral the enemies closer together before the turn based combat kicks in (letting you stun and drop lots of aoe on them in round 1).

Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

rope kid posted:

Chris personally edited both characters down to 1/3 their original size.

Oh boy.

I might be willing to entertain some sympathy for Avellone’s comments on workplace harassment and working conditions if he didn’t spend most of his time in a Nazi-filled gaming forum complaining.

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Banjodark
Jun 10, 2001

Beautiful and good
Punishing with his kindness
Jacob is perfect

Panic! at Nabisco posted:

Uh oh, I made int my main stat, since I wanted big ol' healing AoEs and to have my phrases completely overlap.

I believe for turn based the ideal breakpoint is 14 int and that’s where most two round abilities become 3 rounds.

Or maybe it’s 1 round abilities become two rounds.

That being said I still think High int is dope and awesome and unlocks sick rp choices as well as giving you better sized aoes for all your spells and abilities.

That’s still really valuable even in turn based.

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