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OctoberCountry
Oct 9, 2012


G-III posted:

The thing that pisses me off the most about the sequel trilogy is how brightly Boyega shined in TFA only to be sidelined into an almost joke of a character for the TLJ and RoS. Such wasted potential.

He's sidelined into a joke character half an hour into TFA

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Ingmar terdman
Jul 24, 2006



Cant imagine why this got scrapped

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

One death is a tragedy, ten deaths is a statistic. Especially if it saves my job.


He’s an engaging actor, but Finn was kind of a wasted character out of the gate. Why set him up as a defected Stormtrooper but then basically characterize him as a 12 year old boy?

General Dog fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Jun 4, 2020

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

From my point of view, the Jedi are evil. But what really is... evil?

punishedkissinger posted:

Also, why would Amidala signing a piece of paper make an invasion legal? What is going on with the Galactic Republic here?

The treaty says that it's okay for the Trade Federation to basically take control of the planet and its government. The treaty would have to be ratified in the Senate, and Nute Gunray believes Darth Sidious has enough influence over the Senate to do what he says when he says "I will make it legal."

Happy Noodle Boy
Jul 3, 2002

Don't fuckle with Shuckle(s)

Like that other Shuckle, but different.


Ingmar terdman posted:

Cant imagine why this got scrapped



“Putting Rose on-screen again? No can do” - some producer, probably

Mat Cauthon
Jan 2, 2006

The more tragic things get, the more I feel like laughing.

Fallen Rib

General Dog posted:

He’s an engaging actor, but Finn was kind of a wasted character out of the gate. Why set him up as a defected Stormtrooper but then basically characterize him as a 12 year old boy?

It tracks that someone abducted as a child (toddler?) and indoctrinated to be a Stormtrooper for his entire life would be a little stunted as far as social development and what not but as others have pointed out they discard any sort of ethical quandaries or internal conflicts Finn should've had in order to turn him into a sympathetic protagonist. Aside from his expositionary dialogue about First Order weapons or whatever he basically never references it and no one questions that a Stormtrooper would 100% reject all of his training and beliefs basically overnight. If the explanation is "the Force did it", well they obviously don't go anywhere with that.

Just a waste of what could've been a cool storyline, some interesting character development, and a talented young actor.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

There's also the fact that every stormtrooper could be another Finn, which none of the movies do anything with(except the episode 9 ex-stormtroopers who already left the First Order). Episode 8 seemed like it at least wanted to (I heard there was supposed to be a stormtrooper rebellion sub-plot that got Moused out) but in the others everyone including Finn is like mowing down stormtroopers with a machine gun and poo poo

BizarroAzrael
Apr 6, 2006

"That must weigh heavily on your soul. Let me purge it for you."

Speaking of (maybe not as much) unrealized potential:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv9B1T33i4w

I feel like I was aware of this as something in development in the past but I had no idea the whole series was made. Interesting that George buried it apparently for the sake of new creators but holy poo poo imagine if we got figures based on this instead of more loving Funko Pops.

OctoberCountry
Oct 9, 2012


2house2fly posted:

There's also the fact that every stormtrooper could be another Finn, which none of the movies do anything with(except the episode 9 ex-stormtroopers who already left the First Order). Episode 8 seemed like it at least wanted to (I heard there was supposed to be a stormtrooper rebellion sub-plot that got Moused out) but in the others everyone including Finn is like mowing down stormtroopers with a machine gun and poo poo

Yeah the original Finn/Phasma fight had him convincing the troopers under her command to turn against her.

There's also a really weird deleted scene where a stormtrooper, played by Tom Hardy doing a ridiculous southern accent, recognizes Finn while they're infiltrating Snoke's ship and he realizes that the First Order has covered up the fact he defected. Also Tom Hardy slaps him on the rear end because Rian Johnson.

OctoberCountry fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Jun 4, 2020

Cheesus
Oct 17, 2002

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.

Yam Slacker

Bongo Bill posted:

The treaty says that it's okay for the Trade Federation to basically take control of the planet and its government. The treaty would have to be ratified in the Senate, and Nute Gunray believes Darth Sidious has enough influence over the Senate to do what he says when he says "I will make it legal."
Was that Palpatine's original move? To speak up against ratifying the treaty signed under obvious duress by his own home planet and be the one calling for a vote of no confidence against Valorum?

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

From my point of view, the Jedi are evil. But what really is... evil?

Cheesus posted:

Was that Palpatine's original move? To speak up against ratifying the treaty signed under obvious duress by his own home planet and be the one calling for a vote of no confidence against Valorum?

I interpret him as just improvising a lot. Even just talking with Gunray, when he gets bad news, he says things like "This may work to our advantage." Because Naboo is his own planet, he can see both sides' hands and choose the play that will work out best for him. The general shape of the plot is fixed, however: goad the Trade Federation into threatening the peace and getting away with it, so that the people of the Republic have an enemy and don't trust their leaders to handle it, all the while preventing them from being actually defeated. In an environment like that, the galaxy will just keep getting full of anger and hatred, which he believes he will create abundant opportunities for him to exploit.

Elfgames
Sep 11, 2011



Fun Shoe

Bongo Bill posted:

I interpret him as just improvising a lot. Even just talking with Gunray, when he gets bad news, he says things like "This may work to our advantage." Because Naboo is his own planet, he can see both sides' hands and choose the play that will work out best for him. The general shape of the plot is fixed, however: goad the Trade Federation into threatening the peace and getting away with it, so that the people of the Republic have an enemy and don't trust their leaders to handle it, all the while preventing them from being actually defeated. In an environment like that, the galaxy will just keep getting full of anger and hatred, which he believes he will create abundant opportunities for him to exploit.

it's like he belives in a mysterious force that has the ability to guide and shape destiny, and that he can manipulate it to benefit his side in a conflict

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


OctoberCountry posted:

Yeah the original Finn/Phasma fight had him convincing the troopers under her command to turn against her.

There's also a really weird deleted scene where a stormtrooper, played by Tom Hardy doing a ridiculous southern accent, recognizes Finn while they're infiltrating Snoke's ship and he realizes that the First Order has covered up the fact he defected. Also Tom Hardy slaps him on the rear end because Rian Johnson.

One of the most annoying things in the films is that in both TLJ and RoS, Finn has to board a First Order ship, and it's never relevant to the plot that he used to be part of them. Like, I'm not even asking for a full Stormtrooper rebellion plot, or him dealing with the trauma of returning to the place where he was abused - just something that indicates the writers remembered what his back-story's meant to be, have him know his way around or use an access code or something!

Hell, have a scene like in ANH where they have to bluff their way through a situation, only because Finn actually knows First Order procedure, he can actually pull it off!

OctoberCountry
Oct 9, 2012


Angry Salami posted:

One of the most annoying things in the films is that in both TLJ and RoS, Finn has to board a First Order ship, and it's never relevant to the plot that he used to be part of them. Like, I'm not even asking for a full Stormtrooper rebellion plot, or him dealing with the trauma of returning to the place where he was abused - just something that indicates the writers remembered what his back-story's meant to be, have him know his way around or use an access code or something!

Hell, have a scene like in ANH where they have to bluff their way through a situation, only because Finn actually knows First Order procedure, he can actually pull it off!

Why establish stakes or character traits when the heroes can just get on the Star Destroyer with an awesome special collector's coin (available for purchase at Disney's Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge) that you only just introduced in the previous scene?

Ingmar terdman
Jul 24, 2006



Totally forgot about the admiral's magic coin. One of the many five minute mini-plots

The one thing I'll hand to ROS is the two location lightsaber duel, which of course was building off of the force skype from TLJ. The choreography is kinda whatever but it reminds me of the Brackett draft of the cave vision where Vader shows Luke the galaxy and is pulling stars out of the sky and stuff

Jewmanji
Dec 28, 2003


Ingmar terdman posted:

Totally forgot about the admiral's magic coin. One of the many five minute mini-plots

The one thing I'll hand to ROS is the two location lightsaber duel, which of course was building off of the force skype from TLJ. The choreography is kinda whatever but it reminds me of the Brackett draft of the cave vision where Vader shows Luke the galaxy and is pulling stars out of the sky and stuff

Yeah the fight was hampered a bit by the fact that while it’s visually arresting to be teleporting back and forth, they’re not really interacting with either environment. Being in two places at once has limitless choreographic possibilities and they whiffed on it

Ingmar terdman
Jul 24, 2006



Might be a stretch but rey being in kylo's bedroom seemed like the beginnings of an idea, and it being shiny and white and not spooky seemed like some kind of idea as well. Love scraping the bottom of the barrel to posit whether a movie is trying to say anything

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Angry Salami posted:

One of the most annoying things in the films is that in both TLJ and RoS, Finn has to board a First Order ship, and it's never relevant to the plot that he used to be part of them. Like, I'm not even asking for a full Stormtrooper rebellion plot, or him dealing with the trauma of returning to the place where he was abused - just something that indicates the writers remembered what his back-story's meant to be, have him know his way around or use an access code or something!

Hell, have a scene like in ANH where they have to bluff their way through a situation, only because Finn actually knows First Order procedure, he can actually pull it off!

In TLJ boarding the First Order ship is Finn's idea, specifically because he used to work on it and can find his way around

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CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



Remember in TFA when it was revealed Finn was just a janitor.

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