Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


Ghost Leviathan posted:

Yeah, iirc they don't go into any of the context about how they actually are siblings, which you'd think would be significant given Leia is royalty and Luke was raised by an aunt and uncle on the rear end end of the galaxy. The prequels still basically gloss over that, iirc Leia's adoptive father is supposed to be a significant character but I barely remember him?
Leia finds out that her father was the man who brutally tortured and was complicit in murdering her whole planet is her father but also I don't know if she even knows that? But she has no real emotional reaction to it.

Honestly, Fisher deserves so much credit for making Leia into a real character because I don't think it's on the page. But Jedi's biggest sin is how much it actively removes opportunities for agency from her. The sibling revelation is more about Luke than it is her and its main impact on her character is her boyfriend thinking she doesn't like him anymore. Almost becoming a slug's sex slave isn't great either.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Yeah, iirc they don't go into any of the context about how they actually are siblings, which you'd think would be significant given Leia is royalty and Luke was raised by an aunt and uncle on the rear end end of the galaxy. The prequels still basically gloss over that, iirc Leia's adoptive father is supposed to be a significant character but I barely remember him?

I should watch the Clone Wars where a pre-Empire Tarkin apparently shows up as a Republic Army officer.

If you want, I don't think it's a spoiler to say that Tarkin also shows up in the first episode of Bad Batch that premiered today, which was pretty great. Way better than I was expecting.

Shiroc
May 16, 2009



Snowman_McK posted:

My favourite, simply due to the cultural cache he had at the time, will always be Maddox calling the very deliberate dramatic irony of Anakin's quest to save his wife leading to her death a plot hole. I'm not going to link to the site because holy poo poo it is so much uglier than I remember (and also somehow still going)

There's whole tracts of film internet that have always treated a film like a speedrun of the events depicted. Anything that isn't optimal is a plothole.

Elizabethan nerds saying how Shakespeare is an idiot because Romeo and Juliet is a LOVE STORY but for some reason their actions result in a TRAGEDY????

Ingmar terdman
Jul 24, 2006



I mean people in this thread have said it doesnt matter that "let the past die" is said by a villain and rejected by the heroes. It was said in the trailer and movie so it is fair grounds for being a cinema sin

gudetama
Apr 1, 2021


from today's Simpsons short "The Force Awakens From Its Nap": Snoke Mr Burns

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

Grendels Dad posted:

Idle hands are the devil's playground.

Explains the golden bathrobe and evilness.

And the accent.

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


Ghost Leviathan posted:

I should watch the Clone Wars where a pre-Empire Tarkin apparently shows up as a Republic Army officer.

Then you'll want Season Three's "The Citadel" "Counterattack" and "Citadel Rescue"

He's also in Season Five's "To Catch A Jedi", "The Jedi Who Knew Too Much", and "The Wrong Jedi"

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Timeless Appeal posted:

Leia finds out that her father was the man who brutally tortured and was complicit in murdering her whole planet is her father but also I don't know if she even knows that?

oh crap, I never noticed that. I don't think Luke would tell anyone?? Leia found out Darth Vader was her father offscreen after the movie was done!?

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?


She ignites it on an angle in this video too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggWBEj8ppgM

Wonder how it works.

Ingmar terdman
Jul 24, 2006



Drawing up a contract with my wife to determine how many funko pops I will have to forgo every month to buy the flashlight with a water balloon on the end

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007




teagone posted:

Wonder how it works.

There's a pair of spooled strips of plastic that unfurl (think of a tape measure being extended) and press together into two halves of a clear cylinder, inside which is a strip of LED lights that produce the illumination. Disney patented it a couple of years ago:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US10065127B1/en

Neat trick, though it looks like it would be fairly fragile.

The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

https://twitter.com/Slav79003/status/1242626893750378496

https://twitter.com/scottyo365/status/1389675746600312832

https://twitter.com/scottyo365/status/1389675754640887810

Ingmar terdman
Jul 24, 2006



They don't even work that way you're supposed to stand very still while a film crew member hands you the lit one

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

2house2fly posted:

oh crap, I never noticed that. I don't think Luke would tell anyone?? Leia found out Darth Vader was her father offscreen after the movie was done!?

She'd have to be not paying much attention to him to not put two and two together during Return of the Jedi. He tells her that Vader is his father, she says, "Your father?" all disgusted, then he tells her that she's his sister.

Like, unless she assumes he means half-sister, her next thought after, "Oh okay" really should have been, "Oh, so Vader is my father, too?"

But then again, it's a really sloppy scene.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Sir Kodiak posted:

There's a pair of spooled strips of plastic that unfurl (think of a tape measure being extended) and press together into two halves of a clear cylinder, inside which is a strip of LED lights that produce the illumination. Disney patented it a couple of years ago:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US10065127B1/en

Neat trick, though it looks like it would be fairly fragile.

That's very cool, but given how fragile it may be, I wonder if they'll even sell them, or if they'll just have "cast members" use them.

Still cool, though.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


2house2fly posted:

oh crap, I never noticed that. I don't think Luke would tell anyone?? Leia found out Darth Vader was her father offscreen after the movie was done!?
I mean beyond being disrespectful to Leia, they also deflate the drama of it. Like you can imagine a version of Jedi where Luke is important to the Rebellion, but also kind of terrifying. Han is happy to see his old buddy... who is the son of the man who turned him into a wall ornament for a whole year and he somehow wants to redeem him. Vader's line about telling Leia that Luke was right actually kind of hints at this, but it's a conflict we don't actually see.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



thrawn527 posted:

That's very cool, but given how fragile it may be, I wonder if they'll even sell them, or if they'll just have "cast members" use them.

Still cool, though.

Some video i watched at like 1am one night explained that its not as fragile as you'd think. You could swing it, and hold it, but probably not duel with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smeoxx10PNE#t=326s

all rumors, probably used in the hotel and parks, maybe for sale.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012



Timeless Appeal posted:

I mean beyond being disrespectful to Leia, they also deflate the drama of it. Like you can imagine a version of Jedi where Luke is important to the Rebellion, but also kind of terrifying. Han is happy to see his old buddy... who is the son of the man who turned him into a wall ornament for a whole year and he somehow wants to redeem him. Vader's line about telling Leia that Luke was right actually kind of hints at this, but it's a conflict we don't actually see.

Up until the throne room scene, Return of the Jedi is all about deflating the drama. It has a scene where Han aims a gun just directly past the man who betrayed him in the last movie, and the next time they talk they're just friends again.

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010



So uh, this is a video game channel but I think this thread would like this video. It's about how the KOTOR games first embody and then deconstruct the monomyth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI2iOB8ydGo

fatherboxx
Mar 25, 2013




Sure but the truth is Filoni and the story group thought that using Kanan was better than inventing a new surviving Jedi and comparatively nobody read the comic, moving pictures always take priority in Star Wars canon over static ones and words.

Otherwise we can declare anything that we don't like/doesnt fit in-universe drunken ravings

Noob Saibot
Jan 29, 2020


So much for the mythical Lucas film “story group”.

Filloni is doing what Geoff johns does at DC he’s gonna do whatever he wants and completely disrespect other authors and because he has his own fan base the execs are gonna go along with it.

The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

fatherboxx posted:

Sure but the truth is Filoni and the story group thought that using Kanan was better than inventing a new surviving Jedi and comparatively nobody read the comic, moving pictures always take priority in Star Wars canon over static ones and words.

Otherwise we can declare anything that we don't like/doesnt fit in-universe drunken ravings
Star Wars absolutely needs more "that's not how I remember it" though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN74bOubUug

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDYvG_P3MnU

SolarFire2
Oct 16, 2001

"You're awefully cute, but unfortunately for you, you're made of meat." - Meat And Sarcasm Guy!

Noob Saibot posted:

So much for the mythical Lucas film “story group”.

Filloni is doing what Geoff johns does at DC he’s gonna do whatever he wants and completely disrespect other authors and because he has his own fan base the execs are gonna go along with it.

Good. Undo 'Snoke is closed from Luke's hand' IMMEDIATELY.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



Noob Saibot posted:

disrespect other authors

get over yourself, it's Star Wars.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Thing is though that Geoff Johns is a racist piece of poo poo who's in love with the bland white guys he dimly remembers from his childhood.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

SolarFire2 posted:

Good. Undo 'Snoke is cloned from Luke's hand' IMMEDIATELY.

Why? That's hilarious. It should have been in the movie. Better than just making Snoke out of nothing, which is all we really had to go on.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




Rise of Skywalker was already incredibly stupid it would've livened things up to go even dumber with the Luke hand thing.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




Noob Saibot posted:

Filloni is doing what Geoff johns does at DC he’s gonna do whatever he wants and completely disrespect other authors and because he has his own fan base the execs are gonna go along with it.
Good. The comics and novels are awful garbage.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



https://twitter.com/VeraDrew22/status/1389669067309547524

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


It's hard to be too outraged by posters in comparison to just how dirty they did his character in the films themselves. They're honest in a way, because Finn may as well not exist.

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


SolarFire2 posted:

Good. Undo 'Snoke is closed from Luke's hand' IMMEDIATELY.

Instead, make Snoke an amalgamation of all the severed body parts we've seen over the years

Dooku's head, Ponda Baba's arm, Luke's hand, Jango's torso, Anakin's forearm, Maul's legs

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010



who's dick does he get?

Kart Barfunkel
Nov 10, 2009



Mantis42 posted:

who's dick does he get?

All we know is he gets Maul’s balls.

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


Kart Barfunkel posted:

All we know is he gets Maul’s balls.

Can't believe Maul was a testosterone poisoning stereotype all along, ergo fitting in perfectly with the rest of the stereotypes in TPM

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009






A character in the Bad Batch says “Republic ? Empire ? What’s the difference ?” And I smiled.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


I really like in The Last Jedi how Snoke is handled because it's like: Why even explain who this person is? Regardless if he's literally a Palpatine clone or not, he's a Palpatine clone. You already know this story. I think him actually having a stupid convoluted origin story actually strengthens that point because it doesn't even matter.

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN


Timeless Appeal posted:

I really like in The Last Jedi how Snoke is handled because it's like: Why even explain who this person is? Regardless if he's literally a Palpatine clone or not, he's a Palpatine clone. You already know this story. I think him actually having a stupid convoluted origin story actually strengthens that point because it doesn't even matter.

The difference is actually extremely important.

Snoke is pretty much entirely defined by his relationship to Kylo and Hux, who represent the people of the First Order and its military, respectively.

While a similarity to Palpatine explains how Snoke could recruit Hux and secretly lay the groundwork the Final Order, Snoke needs to be overwhelmingly different from Palpatine in order to get Kylo Ren on his side.

And this is not a symmetrical relationship, because Snoke's Vaderism is what defines him. It's his whole public persona, it's the basis of his policies, the source of his popularity, etc. Snoke's Palpatiney qualities are, as a contrast, just a weird personality quirk that blows up with the reveal that he was Palpatine's slave all along.

So what we have in the actual films is a failed twist, since we are never shown why everyone loves the First Order so much.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


SuperMechagodzilla posted:

The difference is actually extremely important.

Snoke is pretty much entirely defined by his relationship to Kylo and Hux, who represent the people of the First Order and its military, respectively.

While a similarity to Palpatine explains how Snoke could recruit Hux and secretly lay the groundwork the Final Order, Snoke needs to be overwhelmingly different from Palpatine in order to get Kylo Ren on his side.

And this is not a symmetrical relationship, because Snoke's Vaderism is what defines him. It's his whole public persona, it's the basis of his policies, the source of his popularity, etc. Snoke's Palpatiney qualities are, as a contrast, just a weird personality quirk that blows up with the reveal that he was Palpatine's slave all along.

So what we have in the actual films is a failed twist, since we are never shown why everyone loves the First Order so much.
Can you elaborate on the Vaderism because I don't think I agree with that?

But also hard agree on the incoherence of what exactly the First Order is.

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN


Timeless Appeal posted:

Can you elaborate on the Vaderism because I don't think I agree with that?

But also hard agree on the incoherence of what exactly the First Order is.

Vaderism is simply belief in Darth Vader, which is the belief that Vader was the true the chosen one who brought balance to the force. Incarnation of God, died for our sins, etc. In other words, it's Space Christianity. "I will finish what you started."

If you listen to what Snoke actually says and does, he spends the entire runtime of the first two films trying to kill Luke and Rey because he believes that one of them is the antichrist. It's his overwhelming preoccupation, and he barely seems to care about anything else. It's later revealed that his prediction was accurate: Rey was, in fact, the antichrist all along - literally put on Earth by Satan to fool everyone into making her Queen of the Neo New Republic, glowing with a false light:

"In place of a Dark Lord you will have a Queen! Not dark, but beautiful and terrible as the dawn!"

"I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise. Skywalker, I assumed - wrongly."

There is no "incoherence" here, despite the films being badly made. Palpatine never claimed to be a progressive, whereas that's Snoke's entire deal. Palpatine specifically created Snoke in order to smear and demonize progressives and thereby secure Rey's rise to power.

Ben Solo then sacrifices himself in an attempt to convert Rey to the true light, but the film ends before we can see if it takes.

SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 15:18 on May 6, 2021

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


SuperMechagodzilla posted:

If you listen to what Snoke actually says and does, he spends the entire runtime of the first two films trying to kill Luke and Rey because he believes that one of them is the antichrist. It's his overwhelming preoccupation,
Nah. The main thinkg Snoke actually does is try to destroy the Republic and the Resistance. A thread that carries through TFA and TLJ is the dichotomy between how Snoke treats Hux and Kylo. Hux is treated with respect and generally gets what he wants--snuffing out the Republic and the Resistance while Snoke abused, negs, and mocks Kylo. Except when Kylo isn't around in which case Snoke will gladly humiliate Hux.

Snoke literally tells the audience how he interacts with people, not too different than Palpatine, "Weakness properly manipulated can be a sharp tool... how's your wound?" He then goes onto his emotionally abuse of Kylo and that's where you're getting the new Vader line which I think you're taking in good faith. But you're missing the whole dramatic irony of the line. When he says that he was wrong for thinking that Kylo is the new Vader it's meant to probe and prod at Kylo's own aspirations, but it's also a backhanded compliment. He wants a slave solider who he can manipulate into doing his dirty work. We know that's true because Snoke previously turned to the audience and said, "Hey, this is what I do to people." The irony is that Snoke WAS wrong. The great dramatic twist of TLJ is that we're going to finally see what happens when a Vader like figure grabs the brass ring.

But I think in general, you just take Star Wars badies in way too good faith. There is a huge Wizard of Oz thread going through the prequels and the sequels. Lucas does a flip on the original trilogy where Darth Sidius--the scary phantom--is not all that effective. None of what he does as a Sith is particularly more effective scary than what he does as a kindly old man until he takes power and both versions of him merge. in short, it's the man behind the curtain you should be really afraid of and ignoring him is how you lose.

JJ and Johnson also plays with the Wizard of Oz imagery more literally. JJ depicting him with this giant booming presentation and Johnson just making him a floating head.
Like if you think I'm full of poo poo on this, come on. For JJ, I do wonder if it's about more hinting that there is a literal man behind the curtain and Snoke is just a front. Johnson takes it more to be about shallowness of the Dark Side itself.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply