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euphronius posted:Why are you watching the movies and posting here . You clearly dislike Star Wars. I don’t get it. I’m not saying go away I’m just wondering. I don't "dislike" Star Wars. I grew up with it and have seen the OT many, many times. Of course I'm less in love with it now there's more good than bad, and the overall continuity has been somewhat tarnished, but I still try and find things to like in it, and often find myself grading them downwards after my initial impressions, as reality takes hold, despite my initial optimism. 1st post was a jokey comment about being "forced" to watch it with my daughter. Not that I need to justify my parenting, but as most parents will tell you spending any time with their children is golden. It was a joke about how in doing so I will also have to endure some lovely films - of course I wouldn't have it any other way. I was expecting a couple of jokey comments in return, not actual apologism for the PT. I mean, maybe I shouldn't be surprised that people still posting prolifically about the films in 2021 would defend them - probably I should have posted it elsewhere. 2nd post was confirming my opinion on the PT having completed the rewatch - following comments in here that they might not seem so bad on a good cinema system - with a genuine question attached. Perhaps I should have known that disparaging the films would preclude getting a non-snarky answer.
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May 8, 2021 13:57
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:No, that is quite clear. What is not clear is how the concept of balance of these things is meant to work in the Jedi's minds, given they think the Sith need to be destroyed. The movies do not convey this very well, so it's at least a partly on them. Sure, it's possible I have been remiss in my reading and, hey, I haven't thought at extreme length about it - hence posting to see if someone might enlighten me (if, indeed, there is anything to enlighten me on). Wasn't looking for a haughty post suggesting I can't arrive at the obvious conclusion that the PT is terrible in the meantime, but coming from someone who posts endless straw-grasping dissertations about a largely bad nonology, I am not particularly surprised. Forget it, Jake. It's the Star Wars thread.
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May 8, 2021 14:01
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:I don't "dislike" Star Wars. I grew up with it and have seen the OT many, many times. Of course I'm less in love with it now there's more good than bad, and the overall continuity has been somewhat tarnished, but I still try and find things to like in it, and often find myself grading them downwards after my initial impressions, as reality takes hold, despite my initial optimism. What did you think of the cinematography, the sound and the music (in the pt) Those elements to me are objectively good and I also enjoy them a lot
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May 8, 2021 14:34
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The problem with Lucas'/Filoni's interpretation of "balance of the force" is that you have to understand the whole concept. The Whills use the midichlorians to literally pilot force users bodies (using the force, trusting in the force, "You mean it controls your actions?" "Partially, but it also obeys your commands") while dark side users use these abilities for their own ends and defy the Whills. "Bringing balance" isn't about equating the sides, it's returning reality to the greater plan. This is what Lucas's sequel trilogy would have been about. It also retroactively removes agency from every character you ever cared about and therefore can very much go tbh
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May 8, 2021 14:44
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The Jedi's adherence to the status quo is entirely their downfall. They take on Anakin bedgrudgingly, simply because of their dogma, and he's very well aware of this- they don't have the flexibility to deal with edge cases properly. Which really ties into Anakin's whole implied prequel arc- he's reluctantly, begrudgingly given a place in the organisation that he was taken from his home and his mother by, and is desperate not just to prove himself but to prove he can live up to expectations- that he can make himself needed. It's absolutely no wonder he falls at the feet of anyone who offers him genuine appreciation- he wants to be Padme's knight in shining armour (their relationship is very much Lancelot and Guinevere, come to think of it. Kinda makes Luke the Galahad) and Palpatine plays it cool but makes a show of putting his trust in Anakin while sending him on operations outside Jedi supervision, and eventually grooms him to see Palpatine as the only authority figure who has genuine faith in him. In short, Anakin unfortunately is not the saviour of the Jedi Order, but the encapsulation of its failures, good intentions but taking the path of least resistance that goes right down the road to Hell.
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May 8, 2021 14:45
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Szmitten posted:The problem with Lucas'/Filoni's interpretation of "balance of the force" is that you have to understand the whole concept. The Whills use the midichlorians to literally pilot force users bodies (using the force, trusting in the force, "You mean it controls your actions?" "Partially, but it also obeys your commands") while dark side users use these abilities for their own ends and defy the Whills. "Bringing balance" isn't about equating the sides, it's returning reality to the greater plan. This is what Lucas's sequel trilogy would have been about. You really don't need to know more than what the films tell you. "How will I know the good side from the bad?" "You will know when you are at peace" The light side is all about good and peace and all things being in balance, the dark side is evil and anger and lust for power.
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May 8, 2021 14:53
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:But wouldn't a "balanced" Force mean the dark and light sides co-existing, with neither side overpowering the other? I’ve never understood why people think this, it’s not like balance always means an equal amount of everything. When I’m mixing a cocktail it’s not “balanced” when there’s an equal amount of every ingredient. When commercials talk about a balanced diet they don’t mean you should eat equal amounts of cake and vegetables and red meat and lard.
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May 8, 2021 15:20
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Alchenar posted:The light side is all about good and peace and all things being in balance "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil." -Anakin "Once more the Sith shall rule the galaxy, and we shall have peace." -Palpatine The point of Star Wars is not some "good is good" tautology, but a questioning of what people even mean by "good". Is there a darkness in your "good" that you disavow? What is the horizon of your thought? The reason I find Star Wars so fascinating is partly in how the fans can watch the movies over and over and over, but miss basic stuff like that Palpatine wants Luke to win. Luke only triumphs over evil by tossing away his sword, renouncing the rebellion, and abandoning his friends - because it is precisely his attachment to "moderate" good that draws him into darkness. The message is plainly that the rebellion and the Jedi are not radical enough - that their ideological failures have profound repercussions, that the weakness of their political thought leaves them open to exploitation, and so-forth. In case people didn't get it, Abrams and Terrio repeated the exact same thing in Episode 9, with Rey's love of the Resistance literally turning her into a vampire.
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May 8, 2021 15:27
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I do like that they went through the trouble of giving the Resistance ships a movie-style paintjob for their TROS cameo  
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May 8, 2021 15:29
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Another funny assumption about the prequels that I question is this notion that the prophecy has anything to do with the Sith. As in, "bringing balance to the force" is falsely equated with eliminating the Sith. When Qui-Gon returns to the council after his trip to Tatooine, he presents news of Darth Maul and Anakin as two entirely unrelated phenomena. Indeed, the council seems even more dubious about the possibility of the Sith returning than they do of the prophecy coming to bear on them. They all seem to be expecting the chosen one to arrive in their time (as many Christians do), but the chosen one's appearance doesn't rely on the re-emergence of the Sith to do that. "Balance" doesn't mean the one who will emerge to vanquish the Sith. The Jedi merely assume this because Maul and Anakin arise in the same moment.
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May 8, 2021 16:20
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Guy A. Person posted:I’ve never understood why people think this, it’s not like balance always means an equal amount of everything. When I’m mixing a cocktail it’s not “balanced” when there’s an equal amount of every ingredient. When commercials talk about a balanced diet they don’t mean you should eat equal amounts of cake and vegetables and red meat and lard. Alchenar posted:You really don't need to know more than what the films tell you. Fair enough - thanks for responding. Makes sense. euphronius posted:What did you think of the cinematography, the sound and the music (in the pt) I think the music and Ian McDiarmid are generally the best things about the PT. Apart from the excellent new stuff like Duel of the Fates, the soundtrack does a nice job of using musical cues for foreshadowing, occasionally starting a familiar refrain but then moving away after a few notes and (I seem to recall) sometimes switching major pieces to minor and vice versa. I do think they overdo the use of the original themes, lessening their impact at times, but overall I think it's a real strong point. From a technical PoV the sound is of course excellent, and the overall sound design is very strong. Cinematography is more of a mixed bag, I think - Lucas is a strong visual storyteller even now, and there are some great shots and uses of symbolism. Some shots seem a bit flat though, too, and the abundance of greenscreen and density of detail doesn't help at times. No doubting they are visually pretty splendid at many points, though.
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May 8, 2021 16:30
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Reading prophecies wrongly is common story.
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May 8, 2021 16:35
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euphronius posted:Reading prophecies wrongly is common story. I would say it's more common than stories where prophecies are read correctly.
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May 8, 2021 17:19
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Right, of course, its a classic trope that the characters in the story misunderstand a prophecy. It's not intentional irony when the audience themselves misunderstand the prophecy.
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May 8, 2021 18:21
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:You'd think on a comedy forum people would be able to detect a wry comment, especially after it had subsequently been pointed out, but apparently no. You think what you like. Says the poster who called a two sentence joke post a “lecture” 
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May 8, 2021 18:49
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Horizon Burning posted:i believe the light side is first mentioned in TFA. otherwise, yes, it was purely an EU creation and has poisoned how people perceive star wars for years since. there is the force and the perverse unbalancing of it - the dark side. to use the common analogy, you don't say that a little bit of cancer in a healthy body is balance.
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May 8, 2021 19:21
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https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/1391076255370555394 So what he's saying is that the next Star Wars movie will be part of the Sharknado saga
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May 8, 2021 19:51
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I think people confusedly assumed 'the light side' was a thing and that balance meant both the Jedi and the Sith had equal numbers or influence because of how obviously similar the Force is to the Dao.
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May 8, 2021 20:29
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Christians are familiar with claims that Jesus was a fraud, and other than being messianic figures who got murdered I'm not sure there are many similarities between Rasputin and Christ? But sure,  got 'em etc
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May 8, 2021 21:27
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Blood Boils posted:Christians are familiar with claims that Jesus was a fraud, and other than being messianic figures who got murdered I'm not sure there are many similarities between Rasputin and Christ? Beard. Also possibly robe. Also tough to keep dead.
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May 8, 2021 21:44
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Rasputin stayed dead, he just died hard
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May 8, 2021 22:01
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Vinylshadow posted:I do like that they went through the trouble of giving the Resistance ships a movie-style paintjob for their TROS cameo  Okay, this is shamelessly a Space GT40, right?
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May 8, 2021 22:13
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Mantis42 posted:I think people confusedly assumed 'the light side' was a thing and that balance meant both the Jedi and the Sith had equal numbers or influence because of how obviously similar the Force is to the Dao.
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May 8, 2021 22:35
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Mantis42 posted:I think people confusedly assumed 'the light side' was a thing and that balance meant both the Jedi and the Sith had equal numbers or influence because of how obviously similar the Force is to the Dao. Even the sequel trilogy doesn't talk about a "light side," only "the light." Each Star War is fought between a blue team and a red team, each with their own distinctive iconography and parallel toys, but it's a mistake to extrapolate from that to a dualistic cosmology.
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May 8, 2021 22:39
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Blood Boils posted:Christians are familiar with claims that Jesus was a fraud, and other than being messianic figures who got murdered I'm not sure there are many similarities between Rasputin and Christ? Yeah, Christians would just say that Rasputin is Simon Magus, not Jesus.
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May 8, 2021 22:46
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:I don't "dislike" Star Wars. I grew up with it and have seen the OT many, many times. Of course I'm less in love with it now there's more good than bad, and the overall continuity has been somewhat tarnished, but I still try and find things to like in it, and often find myself grading them downwards after my initial impressions, as reality takes hold, despite my initial optimism.
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May 8, 2021 22:50
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PT definitely isn’t red team blue team Disney certainly wants it to be that way though
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May 8, 2021 22:50
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Is the Bad Batch stuff good?
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May 8, 2021 23:44
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AdmiralViscen posted:PT definitely isn’t red team blue team Sure it is. You've got the Naboo vs. the Federation in the first one, then Jedi-Clones-Republic vs. Sith-Droids-Confederacy for the rest, lasting all the way until the Palpatine and Sidious personas are merged openly - which, of course, is when you have the first and only blue-on-blue duel.
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May 8, 2021 23:45
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm not a Daoist but I'm almost certain that that's not how the Dao works. Sure it is, you have the yang gang so clearly there must be a yin gang to act as their opposite.
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May 8, 2021 23:48
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Kart Barfunkel posted:Is the Bad Batch stuff good? It’s as good as the other clone war stuff So far
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May 8, 2021 23:54
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Mantis42 posted:Sure it is, you have the yang gang so clearly there must be a yin gang to act as their opposite. nah, it's von lohengramm who's opposite the yang gang
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May 9, 2021 00:00
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Payndz posted:
I’ve never seen Resistance but that would make sense, since iirc the conceit there is that it’s set on some small independent planet that was largely known for having a local starfighter racing scene before the sequel plot kicked off
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May 9, 2021 01:08
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Halloween Jack posted:Write some more paragraphs about how a forum thread about Star Wars hurt your feelings. Even typed words from people you’ll never meet can hurt if you’re not doing so hot
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May 9, 2021 21:06
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CelticPredator posted:Even typed words from people you’ll never meet can hurt if you’re not doing so hot Probably should avoid the Internet in such cases.
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May 9, 2021 22:36
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Maybe. But also you can find company on the internet as well. It’s not all a cess pool
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May 10, 2021 01:18
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm not a Daoist but I'm almost certain that that's not how the Dao works. Before anyone gets further off track with how the Dao is defined I just want to set the record straight with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5kmkYMqfYY
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May 10, 2021 01:59
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Neo Rasa posted:Before anyone gets further off track with how the Dao is defined I just want to set the record straight with this: Holy gently caress, a "A Chinese Ghost Story" reference is a deep cut.
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May 10, 2021 02:58
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Groovelord Neato posted:I was so disappointed he wasn't a big monster. Felt like a cheat since holograms are universally blue and static-y in Star Wars. I felt it would have been more interesting if snoke was actually the size of yoda and the reason he made such huge projections was because he was a vain dark lord.
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May 10, 2021 07:52
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Neo Rasa posted:Before anyone gets further off track with how the Dao is defined I just want to set the record straight with this: Watched with the sound off and imagine it was sung to the tune of the Spongebob Squarepants theme. Dao Dao Dao Dao Dao Dao Dao Dao Dao Dao Daaaaaaoooooooooo
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May 10, 2021 10:05
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