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Schwarzwald posted:The common note with all of these is that they're largely explained ahead of time in dialog of the film. Even in situations where things go wrong (like the attack on the DS2 shield base) the audience knows what the goal is and can appreciate how things might fail. The lightspeed ram in TLJ is a different thing; it's not just a surprise to the characters, it's a surprise to the audience. This isn't necessarily bad, but it's very unlike Lucas's Star Wars. This is something that also bothered me in TFA. I went into the movie cautiously optimistic because I saw what JJ Abrams did with his Star Trek movies. The fact that key plot points aren't conveyed to the audience (Church of the Force, choosing Anakin's lightsaber lost at Bespin rather than using Luke's ROTJ one, why the Republic doesn't consider the First Order a threat despite its massive military, the "thrown together" plan to blow up Starkiller Base, etc) really bothered me. It's why I chose to wait on TLJ. When I read the reviews, saw Hamill's reaction, and various synopses, I was glad I didn't waste $15-20 and 2.5 hours watching it. That's just me, though. 
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May 25, 2019 05:45
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Preston Waters posted:That's not true at all, unless you have a gun placed right in the angle of attack the ship is diving at (just like the guns in the trenches aimed at the horizon!) Wow its impressive how you're wrong about literally every point.
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May 25, 2019 06:17
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banned from Starbucks posted:Wow its impressive how you're wrong about literally every point. I get the feeling Preston only watched the movies on mute since all of his "points" are addressed in-dialogue.
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May 25, 2019 07:19
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Bogus Adventure posted:I haven't watched ESB so I only know the summaries and spoilers, but everything about it sounds like the story is driven by the incompetence of the Empire. They come out of lightspeed at the wrong point, giving the Rebels time to evacuate. Then fall for a simple trick in the asteroid field. And if the heroes could escape at the end because the Empire merely turned off the hyperdrive then it just sounds like bad writing.
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May 25, 2019 11:45
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Is Preston backpedaling or moving the goalposts? Or both? I'm of two minds about the lightspeed kamikaze. On one hand, that scene was friggin awesome, and nitpicking the tactical stuff is kinda silly. On the other hand, it's one of those things that really take you out of the movie in a "wait, why hasn't anyone done this before?" kind of way. It's something I think was assumed you couldn't do because it utterly breaks the setting. Why bother with star destroyers when you can just use a light speed rail gun across the solar system? It's like if jedi could force grip the blood vessels in your brain or heart. There's no reason they shouldn't be able too, but it fucks the story up when you introduce powers like that. Or saber fights, where someone turns a lightsaber off midswing. Or using lightspeed to bypass planetary shields (gently caress you, abrams). It's lazy storytelling imo.
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May 25, 2019 16:10
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Bogus Adventure posted:This is something that also bothered me in TFA. I went into the movie cautiously optimistic because I saw what JJ Abrams did with his Star Trek movies. The fact that key plot points aren't conveyed to the audience (Church of the Force, choosing Anakin's lightsaber lost at Bespin rather than using Luke's ROTJ one, why the Republic doesn't consider the First Order a threat despite its massive military, the "thrown together" plan to blow up Starkiller Base, etc) really bothered me. It's why I chose to wait on TLJ. When I read the reviews, saw Hamill's reaction, and various synopses, I was glad I didn't waste $15-20 and 2.5 hours watching it. TFA has COMPLETELY different issues than TLJ to the point where hating one doesn't preclude hating the other.
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May 25, 2019 16:21
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Darko posted:TFA has COMPLETELY different issues than TLJ to the point where hating one doesn't preclude hating the other. The masochistic part of me want TRoS to be terrible in a third unforseen way, so we can have a trilogy where every entry is bad in such a unique way that people discuss if they were even part of the same trilogy.
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May 25, 2019 18:14
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This guy gets it. banned from Starbucks posted:Wow its impressive how you're wrong about literally every point.     
Preston Waters fucked around with this message at 18:18 on May 25, 2019 |
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May 25, 2019 18:16
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hello, non-cspammers. meet preston waters
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May 25, 2019 18:49
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Preston Waters posted:You mean like when Luke accepts that he'd rather die than join Vader and lets go so he can fall to his death in Empire? The Holdo kamikaze is essentially the same type of thing. Yoda explains that if Luke confronts Vader he's be outmatched and at risk of being persuaded and then after this confrontation we see that Luke is outmatched and at risk of being persuaded. When Luke accepts that he'd rather die than join Vader we have the completely expected outcome of him drat nearly dying to accomplishing nothing, except arguable saving his soul or whatever. (Saving his friends was something he already accomplished beforehand.) Holdo kamikaze's is (in comparison to Lucas) uncharacteristically out-of-the-blue. There have been several suicidal actions from the Resistance ahead of it in the film, they've gone mostly unaddressed by the characters and the lightspeed ram runs counter to those in both method and efficacy. Whether or not "the audience should have been able to realize what was going to happen" is besides the point. Again, I'm not saying it was bad per se, but it is a genuine departure from Lucas's style.
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May 25, 2019 19:39
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Flavius Aetass posted:hello, non-cspammers. meet preston waters Is this the schtick?
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May 25, 2019 20:36
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When you can't make a decent counter-point in a film discussion, resort to ad hominem attacks: the GBS is strong with them.Schwarzwald posted:Yoda explains that if Luke confronts Vader he's be outmatched and at risk of being persuaded and then after this confrontation we see that Luke is outmatched and at risk of being persuaded. When Luke accepts that he'd rather die than join Vader we have the completely expected outcome of him drat nearly dying to accomplishing nothing, except arguable saving his soul or whatever. (Saving his friends was something he already accomplished beforehand.) On the first point, I honestly can't remember if I expected it to happen or not because I saw ESB when I was like 6 or 7yo. However, I agree Holdo's counter-attack was (more) out of the blue. That was the point, because we were viewing it happening from Poe's perspective. That's why I'm satisfied with the shot lingering on him as the camera pans out afterward -- he was completely wrong about her and seriously felt like he got kicked in the gut because they lost a key commander and a heroine. I was speaking about the audience because your complaint was that there wasn't enough foreshadowing of what was to come. I'm not sure who you're talking about if you're not speaking about the audience, who are the ones processing said foreshadowing. As far as Holdo's fate? We already knew how that was going to end when she resigned to stay behind on the flagship.
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May 25, 2019 21:09
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Do we all agree that Holdo was only created so a character named Ackbar wouldn't be the suicide bomber?
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May 25, 2019 21:18
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Flavius Aetass posted:Do we all agree that Holdo was only created so a character named Ackbar wouldn't be the suicide bomber? his voice actor had died. too soon, shitlib.
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May 25, 2019 21:24
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Flavius Aetass posted:Do we all agree that Holdo was only created so a character named Ackbar wouldn't be the suicide bomber? no because this posits that anyone at disney considered making an alien an important character in the first place
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May 25, 2019 21:39
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Brother Entropy posted:no because this posits that anyone at disney considered making an alien an important character in the first place Well, Raddus did pretty well for himself. Even got a ship named after him.
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May 25, 2019 21:42
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Bogus Adventure posted:Well, Raddus did pretty well for himself. Even got a ship named after him. i had to google who this was which i feel disputes the 'important' part of 'important character'
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May 25, 2019 21:46
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Brother Entropy posted:i had to google who this was which i feel disputes the 'important' part of 'important character' I was being facetious
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May 25, 2019 22:02
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Bogus Adventure posted:I was being facetious it gets hard to tell in this thread sometimes........
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May 25, 2019 22:06
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Brother Entropy posted:it gets hard to tell in this thread sometimes........ Fair dues. He was kind of important in Rogue One. I thought it was funny that they named the ship Holdo ended up kamikaze-ing into the First Order after him.
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May 25, 2019 22:08
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Preston Waters posted:On the first point, I honestly can't remember if I expected it to happen or not because I saw ESB when I was like 6 or 7yo. However, I agree Holdo's counter-attack was (more) out of the blue. That was the point, because we were viewing it happening from Poe's perspective. That's why I'm satisfied with the shot lingering on him as the camera pans out afterward -- he was completely wrong about her and seriously felt like he got kicked in the gut because they lost a key commander and a heroine. I'm not talking about audience expectations or even foreshadowing, and I'm not making any complaints. I'm trying to point out how the storytelling style of that scene differs from Lucas's particular idiosyncrasies.
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May 25, 2019 23:53
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Flavius Aetass posted:Do we all agree that Holdo was only created so a character named Ackbar wouldn't be the suicide bomber? I should've been a writer.  McCloud posted:Is Preston backpedaling or moving the goalposts? Or both?
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May 27, 2019 12:45
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Darth TNT posted:I never realized this, I wish they had used Ackbar for this. Preferably with another one liner like. "Welcome to my TRAP! The correct line is “Allahu Ackbar”
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May 27, 2019 13:10
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Making Star Wars (via patreon-exclusive podcast) is saying that Han is Rey's daddy, who had her when he was estranged from Leia. Kylo (and apparently Lando??) knows but nobody else does.
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May 27, 2019 14:59
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Cross-Section posted:Making Star Wars (via patreon-exclusive podcast) is saying that Han is Rey's daddy, who had her when he was estranged from Leia. Kylo (and apparently Lando??) knows but nobody else does. Who gives a poo poo
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May 27, 2019 15:58
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General Dog posted:Who gives a poo poo "The Star Wars Spoiler thread"
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May 27, 2019 16:17
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Cross-Section posted:Making Star Wars (via patreon-exclusive podcast) is saying that Han is Rey's daddy, who had her when he was estranged from Leia. Kylo (and apparently Lando??) knows but nobody else does. Lmao, Han and Qi'ra hooked up, lol
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May 27, 2019 18:44
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Cross-Section posted:Making Star Wars (via patreon-exclusive podcast) is saying that Han is Rey's daddy, who had her when he was estranged from Leia. Kylo (and apparently Lando??) knows but nobody else does. Imagine I’m making a fart noise with my mouth but forever.
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May 27, 2019 19:06
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Cross-Section posted:"The Star Wars Spoiler thread" Sorry, it's commentary on the spoiler, not the post
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May 27, 2019 19:07
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Wouldn't that make it The Rise of Solo instead? Or is Skywalker a kind of STD that Han caught from Leia and passed on to all subsequent partners and descendants?
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May 27, 2019 20:35
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The Rise of Skywalker refers to Anakin and the movie is basically going to be Dirty Grandpa with Kylo and ghost Hayden. When they get to spring break the sand gags write themselves
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May 27, 2019 20:48
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JJ: "The Star Wars universe is not tied around one single family." *audience applauds* JJ: "... It's tied around two." *much less enthused applause, trailing off quickly*
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May 27, 2019 21:03
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I kind of liked this one character from the Legacy comics. Who was a Fel, an Antilles, a Skywalker, a Solo, a grey Jedi lol and the Galactic Emperor. 
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May 27, 2019 21:28
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What's a Fel?
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May 27, 2019 23:27
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Blood Boils posted:What's a Fel? "What if the Empire wasn't really evil per se, but still an Empire?"
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May 27, 2019 23:31
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Blood Boils posted:What's a Fel? The original one was basically Red Baron in spaaaace before Resistance did the same thing.
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May 27, 2019 23:40
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It seems like the First Order could have built a pretty formidable droid army for the time and money it took them to build the Starkiller Base. Given how puny the Republic’s standing army apparently was even pre 9/11, they probably could have rolled a good chunk of the galaxy.
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May 28, 2019 00:20
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Cross-Section posted:Making Star Wars (via patreon-exclusive podcast) is saying that Han is Rey's daddy, who had her when he was estranged from Leia. Kylo (and apparently Lando??) knows but nobody else does. I don't believe this is true, but assuming it is, Rey and Kylo are half-siblings (and Kylo knows?) so what's with the implied romantic connection? They didn't have to bring back near-incest from the OT, nobody missed that!
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May 28, 2019 00:58
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Gotta get that game of thrones heat
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May 28, 2019 01:08
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General Dog posted:It seems like the First Order could have built a pretty formidable droid army for the time and money it took them to build the Starkiller Base. Given how puny the Republic’s standing army apparently was even pre 9/11, they probably could have rolled a good chunk of the galaxy. Thread seems to have come to the consensus that the plot and setting of TFA only works in the context of "It's there because it was there in ANH." If the Republic was so weak as to be that easily toppled the FO wouldn't have needed to secretly build Starkiller Base in hiding. If the Republic wasn't that weak then Starkiller base would not have destroyed it in a single attack. If however, the Republic and Starkiller Base are just Alderaan and the Death Star with the numbers filed off, it makes perfect sense.
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May 28, 2019 01:14
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