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euphronius posted:Also everyone in the sequels had seen the OT and PT I don’t know why you’re making all this stuff up. The characters don’t know basic poo poo like there being two Death Stars. Or that Luke accomplished more as a fighter pilot than as a Jedi.
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May 29, 2021 17:26
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Grendels Dad posted:Nobody said they are good at watching these movies. Remember, they are audience surrogates, stands to reason that they miss or mix up basic poo poo. “At the height of their powers, [the Jedi] allowed Darth Sidious to rise, create the Empire, and wipe them out. It was a Jedi Master who was responsible for the training and creation of Darth Vader.” No-one who’s actually watched the Lucas films ever refers to the antagonist as ‘Darth Sidious’. Luke’s account of the events is about as distorted as you can get without it being an outright fabrication.
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May 29, 2021 23:11
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porfiria posted:This is really flaccid dialogue, incidentally. The lines read as though they were studio-mandated, in how carefully they elide any reference to the ills of the Republic. In context of the film, Luke is trying to justify abandoning the Resistance to die - including his own sister. You’d think he’d have some stronger criticisms but, for the duration of this monologue, Luke has no actual beef with Leia and only the mildest possible self-criticism: the Jedi just weren’t strong enough. So this is unambiguously both an effort to depoliticize the prequels and and an effort to mute criticism of the Resistance - because nothing Luke does makes any sense except as a rejection of what Leia stands for. Those who’ve been following this stuff for a while might recall that several lib posters have previously argued that the Republic would be a utopia if not for the overwhelming power of Palpatine’s ‘Sith energy’. That was the exact same attempt at depoliticization: after six films, the moral is that ‘Darth Sidious’ just had more skill points than Mace Windu.
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May 30, 2021 01:25
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CelticPredator posted:Disney was hella scared of even acknowledging the PT in anyway, which is why I appreciate RJ for trying to go there. Canto Bight is cool looking and closer to the PT then anything in the ST. And he said darth sidious. Which made people mad because it reminded them of the prequels lmao The design work on the casino is obviously deficient when contrasted with its supposed influences: podracing and the fish opera.
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May 31, 2021 01:08
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The United States posted:What the hell was a force dyad anyway and why was it so important? The Exogolians - psychics on an isolated planet who secretly control the universe - had put in place a decades-spanning plot to have the Exegolian leader possess the body of messianic war hero Luke Skywalker. The purpose of this plot is to have Exogolians openly rule the universe in this beloved form. (Although it’s presented as if the Exegolian leader, Palpatine, will literally commandeer Luke’s body, the metaphorical point is that Luke has always-already inwardly lusted for universal domination in a Palpatiney way.) Luke only needs a slight push to “turn into Palpatine”. He and the Exegolians are actually natural allies. Also, as we all know, an aspect of the Exogolian possession ritual involved the manufacturing of a false enemy to draw Luke into action. This was Snoke and, later, Kylo Ren. So, to recap: the Exegolians created Kylo Ren to scare Luke into assuming control of the universe. The Exegolians don’t particularly care who’s in charge, so long as they aren’t a leftist, but Luke seemed like the best candidate at the time. When Luke exiles himself and eventually dies, unknowingly postponing the Exegolians’ plans, the Exogolians find a surrogate Luke in the leader’s once-lost granddaughter. Rey takes over Luke’s role in the plot - but, unlike Luke, she doesn’t want to control the universe on her own. She really, deeply, wants Kylo Ren to be her co-emperor. Likewise, Kylo Ren wants Rey to be his co-emperor. This is the “dyad”. The dyad effectively creates a glitch in the system, because the Exegolian ritual follows the Highlander rule that “there can only be one.” Rey and Kylo can’t both be Palpatine, so they are declared “false emperors” and the original Palpatine is rebooted with their excess power. It’s an unexpected event, but the Exegolians don’t mind too much. In conclusion, the dyad is a land of contrasts. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Jun 23, 2021 |
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Jun 23, 2021 10:28
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euphronius posted:The movies are explicitly telling what the FO is. If that were true, the text would say “Snoke reigns over the First Order.” Snoke is the king, and the country is what he is king of. Instead, the text uses “reign” in the metaphorical sense. It says only that the First Order is successful and/or important.
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Jun 26, 2021 13:03
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euphronius posted:I took it as an artful synonym or shorthand for “governs as a sovereign power” which would not really fit in a craw but I guess you are right it could be read less literally So, to be clear, you think the opening text of Last Jedi says: The FIRST ORDER is a nation with territory outside its borders. Having decimated the peaceful Republic,
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Jun 26, 2021 13:21
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euphronius posted:No I already said what I thought it means. It’s ok there is more evidence they are a government besides that. Well yes; I've already established that they are the Star Wars equivalent of the Soviet Union. The issue is that this basic fact about the setting is extremely difficult to determine, which is only underlined by your struggle. "Well, it says here that they are 'supreme', and they have a 'supreme leader'. It's all extremely clear".
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Jun 26, 2021 13:55
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euphronius posted:The FO took over Rose’s mining world and ran it. That is something governments do. Govern worlds. In the single line of dialogue you're talking about, Rose doesn't say anything about the First Order taking over the world - let alone governing it. "The First Order stripped our ore to finance its military, then shelled us to test their weapons."
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Jun 27, 2021 01:48
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euphronius posted:If anyone has an link to scripts I could find some stuff I can save you some time: There is no stuff.
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Jun 28, 2021 02:52
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Luke Skywalker’s X-Wing is actually called “Luke Skywalker’s X-Wing”. He wrote it on the side with a space-crayon, to prevent misunderstandings.
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Jul 7, 2021 17:58
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Mymla posted:The top 3 star wars movies are the plinkett reviews of ep 1-3. Those are E.T. movies, according to the same logic where Elliott is a Star Wars nerd and E.T. simultaneously recognizes Yoda as an old friend.
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Aug 30, 2021 03:01
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TheLoquid posted:Is there anything at all in previous movies that suggests that ramming something with a huge ship going at nearly the speed of light wouldn't cause a huge amount of damage? Because there is absolutely nothing to me about the Holdo maneuver scene that is unintuitive or hard to parse. Big ship going really fast is going to do damage. What is the problem, exactly? It ruins your sweet sweet tactical realism in a series that features heroes bringing swords to gunfights? It’s precisely the opposite. On a plot level, you are of course correct: the character just crashes her boat into the enemy boat, doing some fairly significant damage but ultimately delaying their attack slightly. So why do people dislike it? People generally don’t understand why they like or dislike things, so they’ll say that the crash is bad because it breaks the plot of Star Wars. In actuality, it’s bad because it breaks the narrative of Star Wars. Why is the act of crashing a boat into another boat depicted as the single most “insanely epic” thing that has ever happened in the entirety of Star Wars? There’s simply a dissonance between what happens and how it happens, like if the scene where BB8 shoots coins at a guard were the climax of the film. The soundtrack goes dead silent as the guard topples over in slow motion, crash-zoom into an extreme close-up on his eye or something. Cut to Palpatine reacting with utter astonishment before passing out. Rey screams “IMPOSSIBLE”, etc. It’s completely out of step with everything else going on.
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Oct 14, 2021 04:55
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2house2fly posted:Strap some engines to it and now it's a space-based installation. Anyway yes it is tedious, picking holes in the logistics of space opera technology always is. The technology isn't enormously complex at all. Advanced tracking and precision teleportation were introduced in Episode 7 - new techniques invented by Hux and Han Solo, respectively. "Hyperspace skipping" becomes a common practice soon after. It's the use of precision teleportation to evade the new tracking systems. Easy, done. The baddies have superior firepower and more advanced technology, but the goodies can find a way around it with bravery and trickery. The problem arises when entire films are devoted to the mechanics of this poo poo: fuel levels, shield effectiveness, etc. A significant chunk of the Episode 8 narrative involves characters debating different uses of the technology, drawing your attention to it. Like, ok, the baddies have super-radar. I guess we need a way to jam it or blow it up. "You can't." Wait, why not? "Well, you see, [reams of insanely convoluted exposition leading to additional exposition about finding a dude with a flower, which ends up being false because later exposition says they had radar jammers all along]".
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Oct 14, 2021 17:44
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2house2fly posted:People already had a bone to pick with it because it subverted expectations and made Luke a child murderer and Poe was punished for not respecting a woman and they get arrested for parking illegally at a space casino and Snoke died without revealing his backstory and they pandered to the Chinese market by having an Asian character and they didn't kill Leia even though Carrie Fisher died a year before the movie came out. What if I loved all those things.
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Oct 14, 2021 20:55
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Halloween Jack posted:You love that Carrie Fisher is dead? hosed up if true. #1 thing on the list: subverting expectations.
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Oct 14, 2021 21:03
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Boba Fett looking at the book of Boba Fett for the first time: “what the gently caress is a book?”
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Nov 2, 2021 02:45
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It bears repeating that the twist is not the name but the fact that she’s The Literal Antichrist. Fan get caught up in these parentage reveals, and lose sight of the part where anyone’s supposed to give a poo poo. Spaceballs already mocked that stuff back in the 80s. “Luke’s father is some guy named Vader” means nothing without Luke’s psychological investment in his father / the Jediist faith, and Vader’s characterization. Rey doesn’t have anything like that, because the point is simply that she’s evil. The drama is solely that Rey genuinely, stupidly, wants to crush all her enemies with overwhelming power.
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Nov 5, 2021 00:58
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TheLoquid posted:Giving into despair and killing yourself is not struggling against your seemingly inevitable demise, is the thing. FN isn’t giving in to despair; he’s specifically fighting because “I won't let them win!” - because he doesn’t see the Resistance victory as inevitable. This is as a contrast to Leia, who has spent the entire film expecting Luke to show up.
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Nov 8, 2021 22:40
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keep punching joe posted:AOTC was not a good movie. The only good thing about it are the dumb anakin/padme memes. Attack Of The Clones IS the dumb anakin/padme meme.
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Nov 20, 2021 20:39
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Attack of the Clones is also just a masterpiece of straight-faced camp, misunderstood by humorless fans since a least the point that the title was announced.
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Nov 21, 2021 05:54
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Just Chamber posted:For sure it's incredibly important technology wise. Absolutely a terrible film though. Praise certain elements like the score and the art direction sure but i'm not sure how people can call a film that has worse acting, dialogue, narrative and action than most video games a "good movie". Without the magic done by the amazing people at ILM and John Williams and it's just a big budget fan film. You’ve written several hundred words now, but you haven’t yet explained why you think things are good or bad. You are only repeating “it’s bad” and then providing lists of videogames with cutscenes. Have no idea what you are trying to convey. You may not know this, but you can go on YouTube and search for “[Recent Videogame] The Movie (All Cutscenes)”, and a fan will have almost definitely spliced all that garbage into a feature-length film. I defy you to find a single one worth sitting down and watching.
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Nov 22, 2021 02:21
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No Mods No Masters posted:I just struggle to understand the point of the second and third films in this trilogy about a character's poisoned relationship with his mentor figure and descent into fascism, when the entire poisoning of the relationship and descent into fascism takes place offscreen between the first and second films As with “Grey Jedi”, “Falling To The Dark Side” is a fan-invented meme that isn’t actually present in any of the actual films. The closest thing to a ‘fall to the dark side’ in the prequels occurs partway through Episode 1, when Anakin is indoctrinated into Jediism and becomes a Republican.
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Nov 23, 2021 01:44
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No Mods No Masters posted:I didn't say that at any point in this conversation. Feels like your trigger finger is a little itchy I mean that the Republic in Episode 1 is already fash-ish, and the ‘best’ Jedi to train Anakin not only sucked but died in that film anyways. There’s nothing really missing in the gap between “Obiwan really shouldn’t be training this kid” and, ten years later, Obiwan being way over his head while Anakin’s already pushing against the leadership. Yoda is correct that Anakin shouldn’t be trained, but simply for the wrong reason: Jedi indoctrination will ruin the impressionable young Anakin.
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Nov 23, 2021 04:22
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Space Sweepers is absurdly good.
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Nov 25, 2021 17:40
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Just Chamber posted:There's less meat to them than the prequels I agree but with certain audiences especially younger there's a big love of Kylo Ren, his relationship with Rey is all over the internet ... This is only barely related to the movies themselves at all, though. Like, the billions of Sonic Hedgehog OCs aren't proof that people love the gameplay in whatever latest videogame installment. ReyLo collapses unless isolated from the broader context. The (meta) narrative is that they're forever prevented from loving by the dumb nonsense events of the movies. Should consummation ever take place... well, what are they going to have for dinner afterwards?
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Jan 17, 2022 20:06
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General Dog posted:Right, but if it's not handled well, then maybe it shouldn't be. Rey's feelings about and knowledge of her parents, are basically re-written between TFA and TLJ, and then TRoS blows it all up anyway. Hold on; this is something we need to be more specific about. Rey, the character, never gave a poo poo about who her parents were - and that has remained consistent across all three films. “Rey, your dad was... a ‘junk trader’!!!” She doesn’t care at all. “A junk trader... named Triclops!!!” Complete indifference. Rey was sold into slavery at like six years old. She knew drat well who her parents were. What we’re actually talking about is a massive gulf between what the character wanted and what the (fan) audience wanted. Rey’s big, motivating question is “why did Triclops abandon me?”, while the audience is asking “how is Rey related to Luke???”. These are completely different questions, not even grounded in the same premises. There’s no analogy between them. The belief that Rey is related to Luke is based on a misinterpretation of the early TFA teaser, where Luke delivers a speech to his nephew - Ben Solo. This mistaken belief was exacerbated, in the actual film, by the fatal mistake of never actually showing Rey’s parents during the dream sequence. By not-showing the parents, fans immediately assumed that something very important was being hidden from them. “Is it Luke??? No, Luke is too obvious! It must be Jyn Erso! Maybe Luke hosed Jyn Erso!!!”, etc. Things then got progressively worse as Disney played into that belief. The whole “your parents were filthy junk traders” line makes little sense in context, because Rey already knows this fact. Moreover, she has already accepted that her parents are dead, and has embraced Luke and Leia as her new parental figures. Rey, at no point, believes that Luke is her biological father. The ‘reveal’ is only important to fans. So, to the really clear: before TFA was even released, fans had absolutely zero interest in the basic story of the ST: why did Rey’s parents abandon her? What is her purpose? The arc, on paper, is this: “My parents must have abandonned me for a reason.” -> “I need to move on.” “I’ll serve the Resistance because I’m desperate for validation.” -> “Actually, I‘ll serve due to my deep commitment to neofeudalism.” “Oops, I’ve been a Satanic bioweapon all along.” -> [Highly ambiguous, vaguely-Christian ending.] ...and fans rejected it wholesale. In this situation, if you’re George Lucas, you don’t blink. You keep telling the story properly, regardless of what people demanded. But Disney blinked, and implemented a bunch of half-measures, so that “The Mystery of Rey’s Parents’ Identities” was just kind-of there, in an obligatory sort of way, even as it distracted from the actual narrative. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Jan 27, 2022 |
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Jan 27, 2022 05:29
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General Dog posted:I’d say the movies sometimes seem to have a tough time distinguishing what the audience cares about and what Rey cares about. Like her identity as a fan avatar overrides her identity as a person existing within the story. I reckon there are actually very few specific instances of that. The trickier reality of the situation is that fans have developed an elaborate extrafilmic narrative about ‘the fandom’ that bears little or no relation to the actual films at all. We can easily distinguish between “Rey” and “Fan-Rey” because, with the latter, it’s all projection. Rey, the actual character, grew up in a junkyard full of decommissioned military vehicles. Her parents (Triclops and Killing Eve) ditched her on this planet, and Rey now puts everything into her job as scrap harvester, out of the mistaken belief that excellence will bring her folks back. Rey consequently knows a lot about spaceship technology, and even dreams about being an oldschool fighter pilot. However, despite this, Rey knows extremely little about the history of the Galactic Civil War, outside the basic events of Solo - and knows perhaps even less about current events. Basically the only point fans sort-of have in common with Rey is the “dreams of being a fighter pilot” - but Rey is in a world where X-Wings and whatnot are mundanely real. She drives past a crashed X-Wing on her way to work. Obtaining her own spaceship is an achievable goal. The only thing really holding her back are her psychological hang-ups. There may be something in the general feeling that something was ‘lost’ in the transition to adulthood - but, again, there’s no analogy because Rey ‘recaptures her childhood’ by joining the contras and killing a bunch of people. She isn’t just a nostalgic consumer of Disney products, psyched that McRib is back; she’s psyched because the Space Cold War has turned Hot, and she's jumped to the top of the hierarchical theocratic faction vying for control of the now post-apocalyptic landscape. This brings us closest to the point, I guess, since the ultimate ST metanarrative is the online battle between 'good' and 'bad' fans. In the analogy, the Resistance is Disney Itself, offering reassurance that the rebooted Star Wars franchise is ‘for you’ (and not ‘for them’). By posting culture war nonsense online, you are communicating with Disney and may see those prayers answered as the franchise is tailored to your input. If you don’t pray hard enough, well, then those bad fans will have their way with your childhood. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Jan 27, 2022 |
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Jan 27, 2022 16:14
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It's a great example of how Lucas is diametrically opposed to fandom, because fans are like "oh my god how could you do that to our beloved friend Indy?!" and Lucas is like "this grave-robber Jones guy is just a huge piece of poo poo."
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Feb 2, 2022 06:24
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Schwarzwald posted:Folks point fingers at TLJ and ROS, but I think TFA is worth more scrutiny. Halloween Jack posted:If I'm being honest, TROS is more entertaining in some ways. If you like trashy movies that are just absurd gibberish from start to finish because they're hacked together from parts of better movies, TROS is that with a quarter-billion dollar budget. The weird tension is that Rise Of Skywalker is the worst-made of the ST films but also the only one worth making. It's clear with hindsight that the previous two are almost-entirely gratuitous backstory for Episode 9, where Rey's story actually begins. This is because the protagonist 6 is FN and the protagonist of 8 is (technically) Poe - both of whom are the focus of only one film apiece, with nothing to do before or after. The only character with an arc across all three films is Kylo Ren who, after a brief stint as antagonist, ends up being a surprisingly minor character - roughly analogous to Padme Amidala in the PT, and/or Newt Gunray. Condensing the ST down to the parts that actually work, you would have a single film where Rey (who has already nearly completed her training under Leia) runs into our actual protagonist: the escaped stormtrooper FN, who is fleeing his nemesis Kylo Ren.
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Feb 4, 2022 20:06
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No Mods No Masters posted:The thesis of TLJ is that the jedi and the republic need to accept their (unspecified) failures and learn the (unspecified) lessons from them, in order to chart a new (unspecified) course that will be the best of both (unspecified) worlds What Johnson botches is a very schematic thesis/antithesis/synthesis deal, despite repeating it over and over. "the force is using midichlorians to move rocks" / "no it's deeply spiritual" / "moving CGI rocks with midichlorians is deeply spiritual" This might sound sensible, but it's the opposite of dialectical synthesis, where we're engaged in the negation of a negation. The correct message would be "your 'deeply spiritual' force-worship is grounded in a vulgar materialism!" That's why, in contrast to Johnson, George Lucas made the properly dialectical point that the Jedi are themselves 'dark': "the Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way..." TLJ is consequently not a response to the prequels, but a regression from the Lucas films.
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Feb 5, 2022 19:17
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Darko posted:I thought of Force as genetic my entire life because I heard "the force is strong in your family" as a kid. The mutant powers are genetic, but the twist is that midichlorians are named after mitochondria. Force powers are passed on matrilineally. That means there’s actually no link whatsoever between Luke and Anakin, or between Rey and Palpatine. The main ‘bloodline’ in the movies is the Naberrie bloodline, passed from Padme to Leia to Kylo. The bloodline then dies out, at that point, because Leia didn’t have any daughters.
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Feb 7, 2022 06:35
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Cannibal Llama posted:I suppose I shouldn't be shocked by this and I also suppose I shouldn't really care because I really don't give much of a poo poo about Star Wars anymore but are we actually at a point where people are seriously claiming that the prequels are better then the original trilogy? Shiroc is right; up until very recently, Return Of The Jedi had the dubious honour of being the worst official live-action Star Wars movie. The prequels basically exist to drastically recontextualize it. My pick for best tends to vacillate between 2 and 3. (The overall-best Star Wars movies are Elysium and Mechanical Violator Hakaider).
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Feb 8, 2022 01:46
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TheLoquid posted:e: are you sincerely suggesting that there are no characters who represent good in the prequels? Because that would be an absolutely wild reading of the prequels. There are heroes on both sides. However, we are talking about ethics - and the point of the prequels is that none of these good guys are ethical.
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Feb 8, 2022 02:00
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Pook Good Mook posted:Yeah, the statement that The Last Jedi is important or at least influential because we're still talking about it is entirely true. It's not exactly true, because you're talking about the discourse around the film. The film itself is ancillary to all this.
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Feb 8, 2022 04:25
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Nodoze posted:This is why I always say JJ and Rian are both to blame. JJ turned in unfinished homework under the guise of the mystery box oooooo “We gotta find Luke” was a fairly last-minute change in the film, which coincided with making FN the comic relief. It’s a cheap-and-easy way to put more emphasis on Rey, who ends up finding Luke - making it into her goal, instead of just something that happens. No director had final cut on any of the Disney movies. If you keep an eye out for it, you can very easily spot reshoots. We’ve got Rey in ROS chanting “be with me”, and she’s very obviously not talking about “the ghosts of every dead Jedi.” Who knows what the original deal was. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Feb 8, 2022 |
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Feb 8, 2022 13:54
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Basebf555 posted:I definitely blame Abrams first and foremost, because like you said he's the one who put everyone behind the eight ball when he made a movie set 25 years after the last one that has close to zero explanation or information about how we got from point A to point B. He very clearly went into it with the idea that fans didn't want to hear about all that "political" stuff and made the choice to basically make a Star Wars pastiche with no context or plot connectivity whatsoever to the previous films. The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker just had too much ground to make up as a result and the trilogy couldn't recover. We actually know of at least one "politics" scene that was cut: a bit of exposition going into the Neofeudal Resistance's strained alliance with the New Republican party. While it's true that Abrams wanted to reduce the number of scenes about politicians and diplomats, Force Awakens was originally conceived as highly political, with the failure of the New Republic expressed through Han and Leia's divorce and estrangement from their son. The New Republic collapsed due to its internal contradictions, and the Snokist party quickly gained ground. The timeline of events is important: Leia's marriage failed first, and then Ben Solo got sent to military school, where he became interested in subversive communist literature. (It's at that point that Luke tried to murder Ben to protect the New Republic (which, you'll note, had already failed in principle) - which, of course, only pushed Ben to join the First Order.) So, if the film hadn't been all hosed up in reshoots, the family drama would be inextricably linked to the broader political context. The only major failing with the concept of TFA is that they don't clearly distinguish Snoke from Palpatine. It's absolutely essential for Snoke be understood as something altogether new on the political landscape. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Feb 8, 2022 |
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Feb 8, 2022 16:22
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euphronius posted:That’s interesting. Hard to see how Rey fits into that story. Well, Rey is obviously Han and Leia's adoptive child, replacing Ben. This obviously raises the possibility that Rey will help 'fix the marriage' and restore the New Republic, but this obviously isn't enough to address the underlying dysfunction, and Han dies. In the broader political context, Rey is of course an impoverished serf from Tatooine - which is technically part of the (New) Republic territory, but politically excluded. So the adoption of Rey by Leia is a sort of half-assed approach to the problems that lead to the New Republic's collapse.
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Feb 8, 2022 17:47
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Pook Good Mook posted:Is it even worth talking about the possible paths that TFA could have gone down? There were about 50 spec scripts before Disney even bought the property, and then Disney reviewed tons more before picking JJ who in turn had a large number of drafts and re-writes. I don’t mean spec scripts; I mean the shooting script. The production began shooting with a fairly different story, and then they did a ton reshoots, weird editing of the existing footage, and ADR. It’s pretty well-documented.
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Feb 8, 2022 18:22
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Robot Style posted:Reshoots are just a hallmark of movies in general. Something that works on the page, or even while filming, might not work once you get it into editing, and studio movies have been including reshoots in their overall schedule for decades. There's definitely big red flag reshoots on recent movies like Rogue One and Justice League, but stuff of that size is usually pretty rare. The techniques used are normal 'fixes' for small problems, but the sheer scope of their implementation here is wild. In TFA, for example, the goal was to create an entirely new protagonist (Rey) and new central conflict (gotta find Luke!). This doesn't happen unless someone deems the entire film a problem. (From what we know, the original protagonist was FN, and the central conflict was "gotta protect Rey and escape this bullshit space war". Rey would then emerge as a new protagonist, after FN 'dies' in the third act.) TLJ was the least tampered-with, out of all the Disney stuff, but there's still a lot of fuckery.
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Feb 8, 2022 20:53
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