|
Rey is a Palpatine anyways, sooo...
|
#
¿
Oct 23, 2019 04:49
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Jul 11, 2025 22:10 |
|
|
Can someone ask Pablo why Operation Cinder was a thing if the Emperor was still alive?
|
|
#
¿
Oct 24, 2019 01:38
|
|
|
The forcebond was really a stroke of genius. It gave the filmmakers carte blanche to throw their hero and antagonist together throughout the story without having to worry about time/distance constants.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 24, 2019 01:55
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:I cant stand the idea that I now must watch the OT and know that Vader is Luke's father and have to recontextualize the entire saga. The sequel defender has logged on.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 27, 2019 00:42
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:RLM brought this up at some point, but the SW universe is pretty shallow and is not going to be able to be used by Disney the way Marvel is Captain Jesus posted:Disney should have started with adapting the old EU in a similar fashion to how MCU adapts the comic book storylines. I suppose they kinda resorted to it eventually by including Thrawn in the Rebels but rebooting the EU seems like a bad idea in retrospect. The old EU was full of cool (if often very stupid) stuff but the new EU seems boring and probably even worse than the old one. RLM has a point, but it's not anything that comes from the Star Wars brand itself - it's probably one of the most enduring franchises ever. It's the fact that Disney has handled their newest acquisition in just about the worst possible way. They threw out the old EU and rebooted it with some really bad novels that didn't to much to impress their most devoted consumers, then started cribbing from the old EU. Then, they kicked off the sequel trilogy by doing it with no overall direction, a bunch of mystery boxes, and a core cast who were barely defined if at all. They tried to avoid anything that people might associate with the prequels (such as, say, politics and taxes) and replaced it with a, well, nothing. Whether the new support for the prequels was an inevitable aspect of time and distance, a response to the disappointment with the sequel films, or Disney astroturfing that's since backfired can't really be determined. It doesn't help that dark clouds hang over the Disney-era of Star Wars given their treatment of George Lucas. It doesn't help that Disney themselves don't seem to understand what parts of the sequel trilogy work better than others - such as Kylo Ren - and are just kind of floundering about trying to make everyone happen. People extended a lot of good will to Episode 7 under the thought that it'd go somewhere or that it had to be 'safe' and 'familiar' to make battered fans feel reassured - like some kind of domestic violence situation. Then, with TLJ, it became clear that there was no plan. By all accounts, Episode 9 is walking back whatever Episode 8 shot for, for better or worse. Imagine if Return of the Jedi had Obi-Wan tell Luke that Vader was lying, because that's seemingly where the film is heading with Rey Palpatine and half of its other developments. The bit with C-3PO in the trailer trying to have this big moment with his 'friends' feels like the perfect summary of the sequel trilogy as a whole. He's never interacted with Rey or Finn, and I think Poe has just told him to shut up a few times. It doesn't help matters that it feels like the sequel trilogy was motivated as a way to start printing money based on recognizable icons and designs without needing to pay residuals or royalties. Only it backfired, because Disney didn't do nearly enough to make people actually care about their new characters and just about all of their new designs outside of what we see in Rogue One are terrible. Enthusiasm for Star Wars has waned because Disney has hosed it up. They know it, too. TLJ performed below expectations and the discourse was terrible. Solo was a trainwreck. Benioff and Weiss' trilogy has been canceled, and Johnson's films aren't looking likely either. I don't think Episode 9 is going to do much to revive things, I'd say they just want it to not be another TLJ or Solo. A nice, safe reception that allows them to say, look, the saga is finished! I can't believe they're going with 'The Emperor is back.' Sure, Dark Empire did it, but the rest of the EU tried to pretend that didn't happen.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 29, 2019 14:19
|
|
|
By the sounds of it, Rian Johnson had a very good relationship with Kennedy which seemed to get him a bit more leeway. Another issue is that, apparently, Trevorrow wanted Luke to survive Episode 8 and that may have played a part in him being removed from the project. My guess is that Disney thought the film would be more controversial than polarizing, and underestimated how much people cared about the legacy of the original characters (or that rumor about Lucas have residual on them all is true and so they mandate was just to wipe them out ASAP.)
|
|
#
¿
Nov 5, 2019 07:51
|
|
|
The ending of TFA was definitely tinkered with late in production. I think it ranges from 'changing Luke from lifting boulders to standing there' to 'Rian changed one of the droids' to 'the whole final bit of Rey going off to find Luke.'SuperMechagodzilla posted:DisneyLucasfilm’s M.O. - on every Star Wars film - has been to give the directors relative free reign, and then edit the poo poo out of whatever they turn in. The posts you did about the tinkering TFA had done to it was interesting, would you go into more detail? Timby posted:Trevorrow got sacked from Episode 9 because Kathleen Kennedy was absolutely horrified at how terrible The Book of Henry was, and the first few script drafts he turned in were just godawful and no one, from Kennedy on up to Iger, saw a way to recover from it. On the other hand, it probably didn't open with a Yo Mamma joke, so, I'm not sure the quality of the script is to blame. Like with Solo, Disney isn't above putting out misinformation to cover up the real issue.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 5, 2019 08:34
|
|
|
Poor Rose.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 5, 2019 10:42
|
|
|
Abrams said Lucas was involved with TRoS as far back as April, and someone who pointed out that Palpatine would be Rey's grandfather prior to that big leak post (which has since been shown to be correct) has said the claims in that article are "basically" correct.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 11, 2019 01:14
|
|
|
"Tell your sister... you were right... Maclunkey!"
|
|
#
¿
Nov 13, 2019 05:09
|
|
|
Episode 9 says that, no no, it wasn't that no one heard the Resistance and decided not to come, it was that the wicked First Order was blocking the communications. (Please ignore the part of Last Jedi where they're like 'They heard us, but they're not coming?')
|
|
#
¿
Nov 18, 2019 06:40
|
|
|
Captain Splendid posted:Please tell me this is satire You can pretty much go into the Mandalorian thread in TV/IV and see people saying that about this very forum's thoughts on TLJ. "Irredeemable pissbabies," lol.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 18, 2019 12:25
|
|
|
Holdo is coded like the Rebels in Rogue One who were down with surrendering to the Empire and stuff, which no one ever really mentions, either.Timeless Appeal posted:Yes. His first reaction to her is implicit respect for her reputation followed by "Not what I expected." This is so dumb, dude. Holdo is wearing what amounts to an evening gown on the bridge of a starship where virtually everyone else is wearing military uniforms. In fact, I feel pretty safe in saying that she's the only character except Leia, who is a political leader and figurehead, to do so. Even Leia, with her overcoat-esque cloak and dark colors brings to mind a revolutionary leader (in-exile or otherwise). Is Lieutenant Connix suffering from internalized misogyny, too? People draw comparisons to Mon Mothma, but she was also a political leader giving a high-level strategic briefing to a massive organization at its height. I doubt she was wearing that during the Battle of Endor. I doubt she was even at the battle. Princess Leia doesn't go around in her white robes during battle situations. Holdo showing up in that clothing during a crisis situation is flat out weird and bizarre. You've got all these dusty, dirty grunts who're shocked and mourning after a devastating engagement... and here comes Admiral Holdo, who looks like she's just come back from an evening ball. "Not what I expected" is positively benign. It's weird that Poe wouldn't have any idea what Admiral Holdo would look like anyway - the Resistance is not a big organization, and there can't be too many flag officers within it! SolarFire2 posted:He deserves an explanation because he's a commanding officer on board the ship that's currently under attack. Pretty much. Poe is seemingly the ranking pilot and presumed CAG of all remaining fighter pilots in the Resistance. People acting like he has no right to know are just absurd. You'd think he'd be the person to involve given her plan involves shuttles, people to fly them, and so on. It's funny, too, if you look at the novel. When the First Order fleet shows up, Poe goes to detail his plan of attack to Leia, who actively tells him not to bother her with it and do what he thinks is best. But then I guess she gets cold feet and demotes him when people start to die? Even in the film, Poe had to surely get some level of clearance to launch all those bombers and fighters. And it's ignoring that by the time Leia tells him to retreat, the enemy TIEs are already out and the bombers are slow as poo poo and vulnerable. It also ignores that the cruiser could just jump away and the Rebel fighters could jump away, too, given how they've always had hyperdrives. The need for the fighters to come back before they could jump is just another thing Johnson lifted wholesale from Battlestar Galactica without trying to make it work in Star Wars. Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Nov 19, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Nov 19, 2019 06:23
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:It is sexist to judge lady in the workplace for wearing lady clothes. Do women in the military wear 'lady clothes?' No? banned from Starbucks posted:Do you think Mon Mothma, who stays aboard the ship, put on some camo pants and a tactical vest during the space battle of Endor? Was Leia participating in the battle and giving orders? No?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 19, 2019 15:23
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Also Jedi generals don’t wear uniforms. General Kenobi didn’t wear a uniform Yes they do. It's their robes. Because they are warrior monks. Sequel defenders are so dumb lmfao
|
|
#
¿
Nov 19, 2019 15:34
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Lars Skywalker is a military general ? Are you having a stroke?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 19, 2019 15:35
|
|
|
Polo-Rican posted:you're confusing star wars and star trek. rebels / resistance are often shown in fighter pilot garb, but otherwise are they ever shown to have uniforms at all? Uh, yes?     And all the fighter pilots wear the same orange uniform, with the bomber pilots wearing tan. The Resistance is hardly a motley crew where everyone is wearing whatever. The maintenance guys all wear a similar thing, the pilots all wear a similar thing, and the military command staff all seem to wear a brown jacket with dark brown pants. That guy in the last shot is even called an Admiral on Wookieepedia. Even Leia's above outfit is remarkably similar to what the Resistance medic wears. Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Nov 19, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Nov 19, 2019 15:46
|
|
|
Generation Kill is so good. Also up there is the tough guy with the raspy voice who goes by Godfather who admits to the journalist that he'd never been in a real combat situation before but had to present a tough, disciplined exterior to keep morale up. And he makes good calls and bad calls, like with the injured child where he outlines his reasoning why they can't just medical evac the kid through enemy lines after like half a dozen of his subordinate officers pressure him to.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 19, 2019 23:59
|
|
|
euphronius posted:.. Tran is of Vietnamese decent mastershakeman posted:If this were true they'd have cast a Chinese actress just like her kissing finn, disney didn't understand how or why that would be an issue to the chinese audience
|
|
#
¿
Nov 20, 2019 23:27
|
|
|
Even if it wasn't Disney's attempt, the Chinese people who I saw TLJ with said basically the following: 1. She's here to get money from us. 2. But she's not even Chinese, she's Vietnamese. 3. She's Asian, but did they make her look ugly on purpose? 4. Why didn't they swap actresses with her sister? They echoed the first point with Donnie Yen in Rogue One, but Donnie Yen's huge over there so they were fine with it. Brother Entropy posted:if disney was thinking about china they wouldn't have made every star wars they've made so far so incredibly reliant on seeing prior movies that never came out in china It all makes sense when you realize they want the China money in the laziest way possible, which fits how they've gone about the rest of the sequel films. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
¿
Nov 20, 2019 23:53
|
|
|
euphronius posted:He literally stands up mid stage and soliloquies about how hope is the only thing he fears and lmao that’s what does him in Uh, Snoke doesn't say anything like this. Between this and the 'the Resistance has no uniforms' guy, it makes sense that people defend these films because they're just... imagining things. Here is what Snoke says: quote:SNOKE: Come closer, child. So much strength. Darkness rises, and light to meet it. I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise. Skywalker... I assumed. Wrongly. Closer, I said. He's not scared of hope. If anything, he's contemptuous of it.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 05:08
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Earlier than that Do you mean this line? quote:SNOKE: Skywalker lives. The seed of the Jedi Order lives. As long as it does, hope lives in the galaxy. I thought you would be the one to snuff it out. Alas, you're no Vader. You're just a child in a mask. Still no fear.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 05:11
|
|
|
euphronius posted:If he’s not afraid why does he even care If he's afraid of Skywalker, how come his plan to find him consists of 'do basically nothing' and why does he speak of hope with contempt? People aren't afraid of things they hold contempt for. Why does Snoke even care is precisely the thought you should be having, given how Luke was going to hang on that planet until he died anyway. Come on. Watch the movie.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 05:14
|
|
|
euphronius posted:?? Okay, but why? Skywalker has gone into exile. His school is lost, his students dead (or converted), and the Jedi seem to have faded back into myth and legend. No one knows where Luke is, no one knows what he's doing. What we find out as an audience member is that Luke has gone to Ach-To in exile, seemingly to wait out his days and die. He's even cut himself off from the Force. At this point, Snoke has won. It's not like Snoke is particularly concerned or scared or paranoid about Skywalker. He wants to kill him to snuff out hope, whatever that means, but Luke isn't exactly a hopeful dude we meet him and he hardly inspires Rey to deal with Snoke. Snoke setting up the Force Skype is what killed Snoke. Besides, that's not motivation - that's a goal. Motivation is what gives Snoke that goal, and 'I want to kill the concept of hope' isn't motivation because it's meaningless.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 05:24
|
|
|
euphronius posted:She doesn’t reject him until he claims the Sith throne Snoke and Ren aren't Sith.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 05:29
|
|
|
euphronius posted:It’s literally stated in the movie Okay, well, you might want to tell the boffins at Wookieepedia. quote:Snoke, a Force-sensitive humanoid alien male, was a mysterious being who rose to power as Supreme Leader of the First Order during the New Republic Era. Although he was a master of the dark side of the Force, Snoke was not a member of the Sith Order, which became extinct as a result of the deaths of the last two Sith Lords, Darth Sidious and Darth Vader. And JJ Abrams: quote:"Kylo Ren is not a Sith. He works under Supreme Leader Snoke, who is a powerful figure on the Dark Side of the Force." And Andy Serkis: quote:"He’s [Snoke] definitely not a Sith, but he’s certainly at the darker end of the Force. Without giving too much away, that begins to unfold a little in this one." Maybe you can provide the literal statement in TLJ? euphronius posted:He wants to kill luke not only to snuff out generalized hope but becuase he foresees his own death through luke which happens I'm sorry? When does Snoke claim he's foreseen his death through Luke? What're you talking about? Snoke can't even foresee Kylo Ren killing his 'true enemy!'
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 05:38
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Quoting Wikipedia ok whatever Look, if the Wookieepedia guys say 'he's not a Sith' then he's probably not a Sith. Those guys tend to be pretty obsessive about getting things right. Like, if there was a quote where Snoke said he's a Sith then they probably wouldn't say he's not a Sith in the opening abstract of his article. A Sith a specific form of dark side Force user. They have specific traditions, such as the Rule of Two with one Master and one Apprentice, and ritualized ascendancy by the latter betraying the former. Another of these traditions is a Sith name and usage of the title 'Darth'. For example, Darth Sidious, Darth Vader, Darth Maul, and Darth Tyrannus. Every Sith we meet across six films has the title Darth. Ben Solo took on the name 'Kylo Ren' and Snoke seemingly didn't take one at all. euphronius posted:It’s literally stated in the movie So, provide this literal statement.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 05:47
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Ren says it. It doesn’t matter tho . if you are hung up on wookiepeida nothing I say or the movie says will convince you Euphronius, if I put on a fancy suit and adopt a bad Italian accent when I go out to rob a bank, does this make me a member of the Mafia? Look, you're the one who said there's a literal statement of Snoke and/or Kylo Ren's specific allegiance to the Sith. Provide it. I'll give you a hint: there's exactly one line mentioning the word Sith in The Last Jedi, and it doesn't say what you think it does.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 05:56
|
|
|
euphronius posted:There is one important self referential line and like literally tons of other evidence lol No, no, answer the question. If I put on a fancy suit and adopt a bad Italian accent when I go out to rob a bank, does this make me a member of the Mafia?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 06:04
|
|
|
euphronius posted:I’m talking about Star Wars not your cos play fantasies or whatever The fact that you don't see the difference between 'is a thing' and 'is like a thing' and 'is inspired by a thing' says it all, really. The fact that Snoke and Ren aren't Sith while being functionally indistinguishable from Sith is one of the biggest problems within the sequel trilogy.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 06:09
|
|
|
euphronius posted:What is a Sith? I provided this answer a few posts back drawing only from the movies. Like, you directly quoted the post even (and ignored it.) I feel like I'm engaging with someone with, like, genuine brain difficulties here or a literal, actual child. What about the fact that Abrams and Serkis also said they're not Sith? And where's that literal quote you said exists? And does putting on a suit and accent make me a member of the Mafia? Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Nov 21, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 06:17
|
|
|
euphronius posted:You admit they are functionally equivalent which is enough to support a statement “Ren and Snoke are Sith” based on a functional understanding of identity and being verbs discussed as long ago as Socrates et al like 2300 years ago. Okay, but Sith have names/titles that use the word 'Darth' in them and this is core to their philosophy and identity. Snoke and Ren don't have these. This means...? Euphronius, planes and birds both have wings and move through the air. But they are not the same thing. Do you understand this?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 06:25
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Are you saying they aren’t functionally equivalent now? Please make up your mind But they both have wings and fly through the sky. They are like a thing, therefore they are the thing. Not only do you not understand my posts, you don't even understand your own arguments (obviously, or you wouldn't make them.) Why don't Snoke and Kylo have Sith titles, Euphronius? That is to say the usage of the specific Darth title which has shown up on every single Sith we've seen in the past six films? Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Nov 21, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 06:30
|
|
|
euphronius posted:You are insulting me with puerile garbage Why don't Snoke and Kylo have Sith titles, Euphronius? Why did a director and actor say they're not Sith? Only a very stupid person would treat a B52 and a passenger jet as the same thing - whether something carries passengers or nuclear ordinance is extremely important. Like, what're you trying to say here? Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Nov 21, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 06:38
|
|
|
Like, your initial point was not that Snoke and Ren were functionally equivalent to Sith but that they were Sith! You even said there was a direct quote in the movie that proved that they were Sith! Not like Sith, not similar to Sith, not functionally equivalent to Sith but literally Sith. Are you having a stroke? Am I having a stroke? Are you trolling the thread because you're upset no one likes the bad movie? What on Jakku is going on? Why are you appealing to Socrates? Why don't you answer direct questions? Are you posting from Classical Athens and require us to send someone back in time to help you? Does the Socratic method reveal a secret understanding of The Last Jedi? Was Socrates a time traveller? Are you Socrates? Is Socrates having a stroke?
Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Nov 21, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 06:42
|
|
|
euphronius posted:You are confused over the definition of being verbs. I don’t blame you assuming you are American as American schools are not particularly rigorous when it comes to language . I don’t know what else to say to you. You’ve already admitted ren and Snoke are Sith so there isn’t much more Im interested in I never admitted they're Sith. In fact... Horizon Burning posted:Snoke and Ren aren't Sith.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 06:49
|
|
|
And the problem here is that, like, you genuinely don't understand that just because something has a similar function inside a story doesn't mean it's the same thing. Why don't Snoke and Kylo have Sith titles, Euphronius?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 06:53
|
|
|
euphronius posted:First, you said “functionally indistinguishable” Because the function in the story is 'be a bad guy, have a red lightsaber.' That's how they can be "functionally indistinguishable." You understand that in your tortured, weird plane analogy it's like... B-52 is Sith, the passenger jet is 'Whatever Snoke Is', and idea of a plane is dark-side practitioner? Why don't Snoke and Kylo have Sith titles, Euphronius?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 07:02
|
|
|
Captain Jesus posted:Your posting is so stupid that you have convinced me that Snoke and Kylo are in fact Sith. It's like Socrates said: turn on your monitor, lest you mistake a pigeon for a B-52.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 07:32
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Jul 11, 2025 22:10 |
|
|
Uncle Wemus posted:Is Sith an ideology? Like there must be thousands of people with the force in the galaxy that belong to neither Jedi or Sith. Pretty much. The same way Luke says that the Force doesn't belong to the Jedi, nor does the dark side of it belong to the Sith. Sith are just a particular sect with a particular set of rules - such as the Rule of Two, where there's a Master and an Apprentice and the duty of the latter is to betray and overthrow the former. A key part seems to be taking on a Darth name and title. I'm not sure there's more than that directly in the films, but it seems like the Sith has a particular wish for revenge against the Jedi Order for some past grievance. I think, when I was still lurking this thread, there was even a poster who made the argument that Palpatine might not be a genuine Sith, just someone using it to provoke the Jedi. Otherwise, the Sith we hear about are... Darth Plagueis, dead. Darth Maul, dead. Darth Tyrannus, dead. Darth Sidious, dead. Darth Vader, recanted and dead. So, when Kylo says 'The Jedi, the Sith, let them both die or whatever' he's not saying that he and Rey are Jedi and Sith, he's referring to the antiquated beliefs they share - the idealized institutions they believe will fix things. Rey thought Luke the great Jedi Master would come back and save the day. Ren thought that the Sith were galactic badasses, not seeming to know that Vader renounced being a Sith. Euphronius is right that Ren worshipped Vader, a Sith Lord - but Sith clearly don't worship other Sith. Ren desperately wanted to be a Sith - hence the mask, the red lightsaber, and so on. But he's not one, hence the worship. As Snoke says, he's just a child in a mask. And speaking of Snoke, the big man himself seems to be imitating Emperor Palpatine more than Darth Sidious. Like, those red guards in RotJ weren't Sith guards - they were just Imperial guards. That is, Republic guards with red armor. Snoke doesn't seem to understand the relationship Vader and Palpatine had. Otherwise, he probably wouldn't be trying to make Ren into a new Vader. If Sith is a religion, then whatever Snoke follows is like some more secular type of dark side belief system. Snoke isn't even trying to restore the Empire, not really. He just seems to want to destroy things - Hosnian Prime, Luke, ephemeral concepts. So, the two of them are just pretenders. There're probably heaps of people who call on the Force without being Jedi, and of those people there would be individuals who fall prey to anger and hate or whatever without being Sith.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2019 10:10
|
|