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Wouldn't it have been more on brand for him to force-choke her to death anyway. I thought that was what happened before the panel with the lightsaber through her. And the art is terrible. Just the lazy way Vader is stabbing her. And why is he using his left hand? Vader's a righty! I hope somebody was fired for this blunder! Bring back Wookie crushing moons I say.
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Apr 26, 2019 01:28
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Years ago there was a website called Internet Grudge Match or something similar. They would have fights between pop-culture characters (e.g. John McClane vs The Death Star) which would be decided on by fan vote and also have "humorous" entries from fans detailing how a chosen competitor would win the fight. One time they had a Boba Fett vs Predator match and my first thought on seeing it was "...Who the gently caress is Boba Fett?", even though I had seen all three OT films many times. I then clicked on the link and seeing the picture and going "Oh, that guy! What a loser" He easily won the fan vote because the internet makes you stupid, Predator would have kicked the poo poo out of him.
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Apr 30, 2019 00:47
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Cross-Section posted:Making Star Wars (via patreon-exclusive podcast) is saying that Han is Rey's daddy, who had her when he was estranged from Leia. Kylo (and apparently Lando??) knows but nobody else does. I don't believe this is true, but assuming it is, Rey and Kylo are half-siblings (and Kylo knows?) so what's with the implied romantic connection? They didn't have to bring back near-incest from the OT, nobody missed that!
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May 28, 2019 00:58
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Beeez posted:I'm curious how and why we're supposed to think of Rey and her generation as correcting the flaws of her forebears. Thus far she hasn't really demonstrated what would differentiate her and prevent her from being a failure as Abrams claims. People place importance on the fact that she's not a Skywalker, but rather than expressing the idea that anyone can be a hero, it just makes her seem like a Great Woman who is inexplicably superior just because she is, to the point where the lightsaber that used to just be a personal family heirloom of the Skywalkers has turned into Excalightsabur for some reason. If anything, characters like Han, Lando, the Ewoks, and Artoo represent the idea that some kind of divine specialness isn't necessary to be a hero far more than she does. Also, the idea that post-Vietnam America was a time of uncomplicated, uncynical hope is laughable in general, but that's beside the point that Rey and the other new heroes haven't been effectively represented as meaningfully overcoming the faults of the previous generation at all. It's also redundant. The PT and OT (whatever you think of their quality) already did the sins of the father stuff. Chad Luke made the right choices where the Virgin Anakin made the wrong ones, like how Luke treated Vader in the throne room vs how Anakin treated Dooku. You don't even need the PT for this, as even in the OT themselves, the older generation are clearly wrong/bad/stupid. For example: "What I told you is true, from a certain point of view" said Obi-Wan after being caught in a huge loving lie "Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression - the dark side of the Force, are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you, it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice" said Yoda, shortly before Obi-Wan's apprentice turned back from the dark side "I MUST obey my master" said Darth Vader just before turning on his master and throwing him down a shaft You can see from the first two how Luke already knew the old Jedi ways were poo poo and he should come up with his own new way. So the story of the previous generation being poo poo and the current generation fixing their gently caress-ups has already been told in Star Wars. And told better. By undoing the victory of RotJ they created a problem in that now the audience might believe that even if Rey & Friends fix all the things in Ep IX, there still might be an Episode X sometime that says "Boy, things are poo poo! Rey totally hosed it up!" So there's no investment.
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May 31, 2019 07:18
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Are they going to come up with a reason for this conflict in the third and final movie in the trilogy? The FO's motivation seems to be "We are the Empire, just not as competent" and the Republic/Resistance/Rebels are "We don't like the FO". It's all so hollow. The good guys are only "good" in that they oppose the bad guys, who are "bad" because they have jacked the aesthetic of the previous bad guys in the series. Any reasons that do exist for this conflict rely on the audience remembering the OT and the conflict there, the ST adds nothing, just coasting on past glories. I have never seen a story not even bother to give a reason for why the sides are opposing each other, even basic fairy stories for children manage it, but they didn't even try here. Imagine the events of the movies were exactly the same but the FO had a different look and equipment, so no stormtroopers, star destroyers, tie fighters etc. The audience would be totally lost. 100% of their character comes from their appearance, so you know they're just the empire again, there is nothing else there. So baffling and lazy.
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Aug 28, 2019 03:43
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But why are they doing it? The bads guys do bad things because they are bad is not an answer.
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Aug 28, 2019 03:50
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That's just the empire again. I have seen those movies. If you're saying the answer is that it's the bad guys from last time back again, well, that's really boring isn't it? That's why they have the empires look, it's doing all the work. If they had new designs people would be bound to ask questions about where they are coming from. And I know that just because Nazis lost once it doesn't mean they are gone for all time. Look at the resurgence in fascism in our world, but that just didn't spring from nowhere. There are reasons why dipshits think being Nazis again is cool and good, they didn't just pop up from out of nowhere, there are causes. This is what I'm asking the ST to do, but all it's done is say "Remember the empire? Its those guys again." and I just don't give a poo poo. I'm asking for the characters in the movies I watch to have actual character, that's all. I wouldn't be satisfied with a story where a guy shows up dressed in black, kicks a puppy and then they never bother doing anything else to explain why he is the bad guy. It's barely even one dimensional and that's just one of the problems with these movies.
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Aug 28, 2019 03:58
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I have always thought that Sith didn't make up all of the dark side force users. Like all Sith are dark, but not all dark are sith. Like all Catholics are Christian, but not all Christians are catholic. But I have no idea what gave me this idea, it's not in the movies and if it's in the video games I can't remember which one, did I just make that up for myself?
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Aug 28, 2019 21:36
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YaketySass posted:
This is a view I always found strange, as I thought the Force was already democratized. Sure we spend most of our time with the Skywalkers (Anakin, Luke, Leia, Sheev kinda), but Yoda, Obi-Wan, Maul, Dooku, all the dozens of nameless jedi etc, aren't Skywalkers. So by saying "Anybody can use the force/be a jedi" I never thought was anything new, it was always like that.
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Aug 31, 2019 02:33
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To be fair to the sequels, it is hard to try and continue a story that has already 100% finished. Stupid too, but that money is not gonna make itself and Disney didn't spend $4b to not make Star Wars films, so here we are.
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Sep 4, 2019 00:03
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My earlier post about it being hard to continue a story that's finished was more about them going back to that Empire/Rebels well, rather than the fact it's impossible to tell a new star wars story. They had pretty much an open field and chose to do what the OT did again, but not as well. Maybe Lucas' mini universe idea would have been better, or if the war profiteers from TLJ were the actual villains of the story rather than just an aside that I'm betting will never come up again, we could have some good movies. But they went back to the old story and it's just not interesting, the empire lost last time, who cares about some cosplayers trying to carry on their legacy? This is why even though I don't like the ST, I think a lot of the hate is misdirected at Rian Johnson and TLJ, whereas I think the problem stems from TFA. That movie just locked them into doing the same old poo poo, Johnson seemed to want to break free but was constrained by the story prompt he received. Although he could have done a better job of actually "killing the past", rather than just talking about it and ending with a fascist group headed by a space wizard vs a plucky group of rebels again.
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Sep 4, 2019 21:31
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But it's her bar, she can just not hire scabs!
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Sep 7, 2019 04:24
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I'm confused by how Rey knew Luke redeemed Darth Vader. Who spread that information around the galaxy? Luke is the only living person who could have told that story, did they make a TV movie about it that the whole galaxy saw? Why would anybody believe Luke when he said it?
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Sep 10, 2019 22:07
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Necrotizer F posted:
Anakin is the only human to survive a podrace. It is heavily implied that this is due to his force abilities. He does this before he even meets a jedi. No training required. Of course you can also ask yourself how the very first force user learnt to do sweet tricks if you need to be taught it. If training from another is required, there can be no 1st force user, so evidently it can be self-taught.
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Sep 25, 2019 00:25
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If Qui-Gon was meant to be an example of an ideal jedi, how come in the first scene he's in Obi-Wan correctly senses there's something wrong with this whole trade dispute deal (seeming to feel Sidious behind it all already) and Qui-Gon tells him to shut up as they are facing cowards who will fold easily? Sure got that one wrong.
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Sep 25, 2019 23:47
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General Dog posted:I don’t think it’s likely that the synopsis is accurate, but I am curious what part of it you find to be implausibly stupid. It's mostly that it seems like a lot of content for one movie, all the events in and of themselves are perfectly believable. But then again, he could be spending a lot of words on things that are on screen for 2 seconds and there isn't as much content as his outline suggests. I'm still betting it's bullshit though.
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Oct 2, 2019 00:00
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Also, Rose's method of saving Finn is batshit insane. Not only should that have killed them both, but it was nice of the FO to not fire on them and let them retreat. I guess Rose had read the script ahead of time and knew it would work. teagone posted:Deductive reasoning suggests that if Luke never showed up, they'd eventually find a way another out because you can't end the film with all the good guys getting killed. I mean you could, but that'd be a real downer. Do the characters know they are in a movie? Hang on, Rey having seen the previous films makes more sense now.
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Oct 8, 2019 02:20
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Oh my god those leaks were at least a bit accurate, this is so bad lol. I didn't like TLJ but at least there was an attempt to do something there, this is just nothing, base pandering. I don't feel anger I'm just done. I haven't seen Solo yet and it looks like I'm skipping this one too. I'd like to thank Disney for curing me of Star Wars, they've done me a service.
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Oct 23, 2019 00:59
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It's not hard to realize that everything people post in this thread and other threads about movies are of course posting nothing more than their opinion. "This movie sucks" isn't meant to be an objective statement of fact and that the poster doesn't qualify their statement doesn't mean they are claiming an objective truth, of course it's just their opinion man. Jesus. What matters in all this is can they give some reasoning so you can understand how and why they came to their opinion, even if you still don't share it. You don't need to cite sources or anything, just lay it all out.CityMidnightJunky posted:You must realise that this isn't true, and that your views on the MCU are just personal preference, right? You claim it isn't true, so you must have access to some objective truth about the MCU to lay on us, so please go ahead. (Your post is also just your opinion, see how that works?) If you disagree with teagone's assessment of the MCU and thus his fears of what could become of Star Wars, you need to show WHY his opinion might be wrong, you know by talking about how the MCU isn't just the same movie made over and over again. But this might be difficult because teagone is clearly objectively correct.   TLDR: Just assume everyone's post starts with "in my opinion..." and go from there. Pointing out what they posted is just their opinion is stating the bleeding obvious, argue against their opinion with your own, anything else is just "nuh uh" and worthless in a loving discussion forum.
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Nov 2, 2019 07:15
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I think the admiration for Holdo is something from the internet, not something from the film itself. I think the films is (very badly) trying to say something about what happens when trust breaks down between a boss and their workers. For example, Luke doesn't talk to Ben about his worries, just reacts and it all goes wrong. Snoke fucks with Kylo as a part of his plan to lure Rey and discover Luke's location and this results in him getting cut in half. People can clearly see the gently caress ups Luke/Snoke made there, but when it comes to Holdo, nah, she did it all correctly. I think the movie is more interesting if you assume it's saying she hosed up like the others. As someone upthread mentioned, switch Holdo's/Poe's genders and see how horrifying her behavior actually is. It's just really badly made so it all gets muddled, spends so much time making Holdo seem shifty/incompetent that when they try to reverse course and say she's cool, they just can't pull it off. I'm still in disbelief that ostensibly left-wing people on the internet are arguing sincerely that a someone in the military should always just blindly follow orders, no matter how dumb they seem or if a superior refuses to explain them. "I was just following orders" is something Nazis said, not an instruction for fighting fascists for fucks sake. The week before I saw TLJ for the first time I rewatched Generation Kill. Having that in my mind, a movie saying just follow orders seems insane. For those who don't know GK is a HBO mini-series based on a book by a journalist imbedded with Marines during the invasion of Iraq in 2003. During this a Lieutenant grabs a radio out of a superiors hand as he tries to call in an air-strike because: the perceived hostile threat doesn't actually exist and it's a really close thing and they don't want to get blown up by their own guys Luckily the superior is so stupid he can't say the correct things to get the strike approved and it doesn't go ahead. Later this same Lieutenant gets orders to send his men out in Baghdad at night to impose some order and he straight up refuses because they won't actually achieve anything and his men will be in real danger This (real) Lieutenant faced disciplinary actions for what he did, but both book and show portray him as 100% correct. TLDR: sometimes you have to disobey orders if they are loving stupid, counter-productive or dangerous. Just because a lady gives them doesn't make a difference.
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Nov 19, 2019 23:47
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And then he medivacs the kid anyway. Better yet is the reason why the kid got shot. It's because he wanted to take an airfield (that was deserted and was going to get stormed by British SAS anyway), so he order his men to just roll up on it and made the approach a total free-fire zone. As in if you see someone? They're hostile, shoot them. Some of the men under him refuse to pass that free-fire order on because they're not stupid. And so some kids walking with their families livestock get lit the gently caress up. But yeah, just follow orders lol.
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Nov 20, 2019 00:05
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euphronius posted:Are you saying they aren’t functionally equivalent now? Please make up your mind All sith are darksiders but not all darksiders are sith. See: catholics and Christianity. HTH
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Nov 21, 2019 06:29
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Captain Splendid posted:TARS is literally there at the end of the film. gently caress knows for CASE Case is seen with Anne Hathaway on her planet at the end Droids are clearly people
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Dec 3, 2019 23:48
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I get the feeling the "trio" in this trilogy was supposed to be Kylo, Rey and Finn. Kylo looking at Finn at the start of TFA and fighting him at the end might have meant they were supposed to have a character dynamic as well, but then things happened, Poe lived and everyone got separated into their own sealed stories that aren't allowed to touch each other because ???
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Dec 11, 2019 04:12
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Timby posted:This continues to be a baffling criticism to me. Neither of the prior two Star Wars trilogies were mapped out beforehand. They weren't planned, but they didn't seem antagonistic to each other either. Both the OT and PT built on each other. The ST? It seems Rian spent lots of TLJ saying "nah" to all the stuff JJ was hinting at, and if the leaks are true (they are), JJ is going to do the same right back at TLJ stuff. You can make it up as you go, but good improv is "yes and" not, "gently caress that poo poo". A big criticism of TLJ is that nothing is achieved and they end the film were they started. Snoke's death could be seen as progress, but it seems uh, he was Palpatine's puppet all along and Sheev is back, so actually nothing happened? This trilogy is madness.
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Dec 11, 2019 23:33
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Rey's parents, Snoke's identity etc. I'm actually fine with both those, but it seems that JJ is winding them back with ep.9 so lol
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Dec 11, 2019 23:38
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I think that's what most people (myself included) who didn't like TLJ wanted. And if the argument is that Rey shouldn't take Kylo's hand because he isn't actually sincere about things, you write it so Kylo is sincere. But instead it's Empire vs Rebels, from now until the end of time.
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Dec 12, 2019 01:05
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Knives Out is great and I like Looper but when TLJ came out I remember somebody somewhere saying "This movie was clearly made by the guy who decided his time travelling hitmen movie needed telekinesis" and that's a pretty good take on Rian. Brick is also really good but the plot actually requires JGL not to know what the girl was talking about in the phone call when she mentions a brick and it's like, come on dude there's weird lingo in this movie but that one's real easy, it's drugs! But then again I always read JGL in that movie as actually being a massive dumbass, not the cool smart guy he might sometimes play at being. Rian's got some contrivances in his writing is what I'm saying.
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Dec 15, 2019 03:54
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With KK saying that maybe trilogies aren't the way anymore, is that the closest we have to confirmation that Rian Johnson's trilogy is dead? A few months ago he said maybe it wasn't happening and now this.
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Dec 18, 2019 00:10
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riseofmydick posted:People keep saying there's no one that could have directed these films well and they also keep bringing up different directors but I have yet to hear someone mention Christopher Nolan, Peter Jackson or Matt Reeves. When Disney bought Star Wars back in 2012 they talked to roughly 20 filmmakers about what they would do with it. Obviously JJ got the job, but Nolan and Tarantino (?!) were among the people they talked too. Whether they (Nolan etc) didn't want to do it, or Disney didn't like what they pitched is  Nolan has been open about wanting to do a Bond film and you would think that would be great, but he hasn't ever got the job. Rumor is because the Broccoli's don't like directors who have minds of their own, so Nolan isn't their cup of tea, maybe Disney is the same?
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Dec 19, 2019 00:09
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Zoran posted:In Story Group Official Canon news, it turns out that Ben didn’t attack anyone or destroy the temple after Luke attacked him. The building blew up for unknown reasons, killing many of the students in the fire, and a few surviving Padawans came across Ben alone in the flames. He told them what Luke had done, but they didn’t believe him and attacked, so he fled Good thing Luke was totally unrepentant about this, dunking on Kylo at the end of TLJ. It's almost like the entire thing is Luke's fault and Ben was blameless and the stupid padawans provided the final touch of pushing him to the dark side. The jedi really are the worst.
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Dec 19, 2019 02:38
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According to Rian Johnson, initially in early drafts Poe and Finn both went to casino planet, but because they "were too similar" and "the same character" (? how?), they needed to split them up and thus created Rose, who being different would actually have a character dynamic with Finn.
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Dec 19, 2019 03:46
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Raccooon posted:I still don't get the decision. They have the best chemistry together of all the characters. The scene of them escaping in the Tie Fighter in TFA is probably the best scene in that movie. I agree with you, but we didn't make the movie did we? I am still really confused as to how Poe and Finn are the same. As you say, they have good chemistry, but they are clearly different people and would bounce off each other well on a caper. But Rian disagreed (or this is his explanation for a decision he didn't make and he has to come up with something) and so Rose was created. Then binned for this film after copping abuse online. Poor Kelly Marie Tran, she deserved better.
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Dec 19, 2019 03:51
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About the awkward editing in TLJ making some people think it got hosed with in post, in the commentary Rian Johnson says originally the first shot after the opening crawl would be a pan down to Finn waking up from his coma and him wandering out into the evacuation/battle. Obviously this got changed and he didn't do that until after they had escaped. So, to a certain extent, the opening of TLJ was changed and the order of events might have been hosed with, leading to the confusion of why Leia can't just call the ships back herself etc. As it stands, the bombers are so slow that even if they did retreat when Leia said, there's no way they make it back to the capital ships before getting got. Along with the hyperspace tracking plot later in the movie that feels like it was done by ADR in some points (Finn and Rose figuring it out especially), TLJ might have been very different in it's original scripted form.
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Dec 25, 2019 01:30
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I think the R1 "fix" was supposed to be how the empire could leave a gaping hole in the design of the death star like that. The explanation that already existed was the empire was big and arrogant and didn't think the rebels were a threat. R1 changed that to the design flaw being deliberate, rather than an oversight. And remember the flaw was the chain reaction, not the exhaust port itself.
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Dec 25, 2019 22:49
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At the very least there's that shot in the trailers for TFA of Maz handing Leia the lightsaber, so something must have changed in the edit.
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Dec 27, 2019 00:01
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Han Solo's "I know" line wasn't scripted, the scripted version which I believe to be "I love you too" sucked and didn't fit Han, so Ford/Kershner agreed to change it. Movie magic! You will notice that "I know" fits his character perfectly, whereas poo poo like "yo mama" seems to come from nowhere. Almost like the people making the ST didn't really have a handle on the characters and their voices.
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Dec 28, 2019 22:56
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It's weird because the surviving rebels are the only ones that would pass those stories on and if their cries for help were ignored, why is the galaxy suddenly listening when they say "Oh it was sick, we were saved by jedi Luke Skywalker showing up and stunting on these plebs in the first order". Maybe the first order is doing propoganda for the rebels, telling everyone they would have won but a magic wizard showed up and defeated them, man the rebellion is cool. They do seem stupid enough to do that.
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Dec 29, 2019 04:54
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On why TLJ seems to get more hate than the other two in it's trilogy, to me it's because it actually seems to have some ideas and themes, compared to loving nothing in TFA or ROS. So people talk about and criticize it because there is some meat on the bone there, no matter how faulty, because there is nothing to talk about otherwise. It is a much better film than it's two siblings, (I think, haven't seen ROS but I'm going off people's general reactions) while still being a bit crap IMO, but people latch onto it more because otherwise the conversation is "TFA is just poor rehash" or "What the gently caress is this?" about ROS. Over the holidays I watched Skyfall again and I realized that it is a very similar film to TLJ. Both are about breaking down their subject matter (James Bond and Star Wars) and trying to rebuild and reaffirm it by the films end. Skyfall has Bond "dying", being old and useless and failing. Then, with Judi Dench quoting Tennyson (?), he is reborn as strong as ever, with his old Aston Martin, his theme music and a visit to his home. Then the film ends with him officially meeting Moneypenny and entering the old M office, ready to serve her Majesty once again. Yay, Bond's Back! Just like the old days. Even if the old days sucked and the British Empire is long gone and M deserved everything that happened to her (I don't like Skyfall much either, although it is loving pretty, thanks Roger Deakins!) In TLJ they question all the Star Wars poo poo and try to do the same reaffirmation at the end, with Luke saying he's not the last jedi, Leia saying it's all good and Broom Kid looking to the stars, dreaming about adventure. Yay, Star Wars is back! Just like the old days...Except (and this is my personal opinion, can't speak for everyone) I didn't want Star Wars to be back, I liked it better when it looked like everything was changing, so the reversion to the old status quo of Big Empire vs Plucky Rebels just made me want to never see Star Wars again. Supposed to be an uplifting ending, but to me it was just depressing. This will never end until the grosses go down. So I quit Star Wars and haven't seen either Solo or ROS, I think this is the optimal choice.
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Jan 21, 2020 01:21
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Death of the Author is also really important when talking about film, as they can't really honestly be said to have a single creator. Is it the director? Writer? Producers? Financiers? Actors? Set-designers? Composer? Visual Effects Artists? What to do when these people don't agree? (Ask Ridley Scott and Harrison Ford if Deckard is a replicant for example. Then ask Phillip K Dick as well). Judging the movie by it's own contents and context is really the only sensible option IMO.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:05
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