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1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Robot Style posted:

Shawn Levy's spent the last half-decade making mid Ryan Reynolds vanity projects, so he's probably good enough at doing as he's told to not clash too much with the executives and actually get the thing made.

Free Guy was very good :boom:

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1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
Avatar 3 will be released before the Rey movie even starts production

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
I'm pretty sure that one is already wrapped and they're doing post on it now.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

feedmyleg posted:

I don't think the prequels need to do a remake or anything, they're fine as they are and a do-over would only gently caress them up more and make the much less interesting films.

That being said, I would be fascinated to see a re-edit using all of the original footage as a base. Since the modern VFX process was being invented on the fly during the making of them, and they overtaxed the hell out of their crews, each movie ended up being shaggy as hell. But I wouldn't be into it just for a VFX refresh—alternate takes, revised sequencing, and fewer technological limitations. Without a smart and steady authorial hand it wouldn't be better than what we got, I'd just be interested to see how different it would feel.

The VFX ain’t the problem with those films, and I’m not convinced there’s any hidden good takes George just didn’t happen to use.

Edit: lol I didn’t realize AOTC and ROTS were shot on 2/3” cameras. No wonder they look the way they do. And they’re forever locked at 1080p

1st AD fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Jan 27, 2025

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
I don’t think the Discoverse Star Trek era is that bad but it should be noted that Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci worked on both Star Trek 2009 and Into Darkness. So while not responsible directly, JJ kind of birthed the current creative direction of Star Trek.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Mat Cauthon posted:

They probably need Hamill for any sort of good faith effort at resurrecting the movies but would they want him? The guy threw such a poo poo fit after The Last Jedi, despite having a solid arc in that movie and giving what I thought was a pretty good performance, seemingly because he took all the fan reaction at face value. I imagine spending your whole life shackled to this one character and the sentiments of the whole world about it would do a number on anybody but still.

Disney wouldn't want him pulling another "Not My Luke" meltdown if he doesn't like a new sequel entry, but if he doesn't get some kind of nod in it that's a risk too.

nice headcannon but Mandalorian season 2 was filming in 2020, years after The Last Jedi happened and Mark Hamill was on set doing reference for the body double.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Mat Cauthon posted:

I didn't know he did body double stuff for Mando S2 but even so that (and any recent voice work) are horses of a completely different color than revisiting the role in another movie.

You do realize that he reprised his role in a movie, right? The Rise of Skywalker happened. After The Last Jedi.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
I might be inferring too much, but I have a sense that JJ had an idea of where the next 2 films would go, but Rian Johnson threw whatever loosely existed away.

In some aspects I think The Last Jedi is the best of the sequel films, but also there's a bunch of hokey bullshit in there that prevents it from being great

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

No Mods No Masters posted:

What seems noteworthy is that while you or I might achieve that by not caring that much and just doing the bare minimum, by all accounts she achieved it through furious micromanagement and constant drama. I think this is the source of my ultimate feeling of pity for her

Furious micromanagement might work on a film set with a director who you work well with. Much harder as a studio head when you've got multiple projects in development at any given time.

It kind of amazes me Marvel had the run of success that it did in the last decade because Kevin Feige was no less involved but delivered way more output with way bigger box office returns.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Shageletic posted:

Order 44: ask each jedi the last five goals they've achieved

Order 45: have DOGE (Department of Galactic Efficiency) interns email every jedi and ask them to justify their jobs and salary

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
I don't think anyone should take anything meaningful out of the box office failure of The Suicide Squad, HOWEVER until Superman comes out and it's a certified hit, I wouldn't make any proclamations about the success of Gunn and Safran just yet.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Wolfsheim posted:

They probably just meant artistically successful

That studio hasn't released a single film yet, how is it artistically successful? I guess if we're being technical you could lump in the success of The Penguin under Gunn's stewardship, but for me that is a stretch.

Superman might be really good, but none of us have seen it yet.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Blood Boils posted:

Oh I forgot Aquaman 2 & blue beetle

Lookit those cylinders fire!

None of the films you cited are films Gunn had anything to do with as the co-CEO of a movie studio.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

They were actually fairly wrong about that stuff too. The ST uses significantly more CGI than the prequels did, for example.

The 'fakey' look of the prequels is largely attributable to its shitload of miniatures:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvpMVirLsY0

Naw I attribute it to 1)the overall production design which is more opulent/less austere than the original trilogy and 2)they shot Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith on the first digital cinema cameras at a time where the color science to digital cinema was nascent.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Vinylshadow posted:



"Why didn't the Star Wars Hero Shooter do well?"
"...There was a Star Wars Hero Shooter?"

Man, if only they had released it on PC and actually advertised it

PC client would not have helped - this game was terrible to play and was slow.

I don’t mean slow like framerates. I mean every character moved as if you were swimming in molasses.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
The interface was fine. I didn’t line the Fortnite-inspired art style, but again that was fine.

The game played like rear end. Every character moves slowly and the shooting/melee combat never felt satisfying. There was very little variety in game modes.

This game was bad on a basic mechanical level.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
It’s a great musical composition but it’s used multiple times throughout the prequel trilogy, sometimes spliced badly with another track :sigh:

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
Wokely Argue sounds like the unfortunate name some white lib couple gave to their child born circa 2019

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
Touch grass :rolleyes:

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
Picking Kinberg is a good choice if you’re Lucasfilm, a studio whose projects are constantly delayed or have issues moving through to release.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
I’m guessing his hiring is more of a Disney thing. They’ve had a lot of projects languishing on the docket and he’s a guy you bring in if you want to get something released by a certain date.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
No, the Lucasfilm way is "let's just announce it, who cares if it ever happens."

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Robot Style posted:

I feel like recasting the character with someone more age appropriate would have resulted in an entirely different show. The tease they did in The Mandalorian was a pretty explicit King Conan reference, and that seems like an idea that stems directly from the decision to bring Morrison back as an older Boba Fett.

Though if they'd bit the bullet and recast Fett for The Mandalorian, that could have some pretty interesting effects down the line. With Andor, they introduced Benjamin Bratt as Bail Organa in a small role in an early episode so that his appearance later on wouldn't be as jarring to the audience. Recasting Boba Fett for his brief appearance could have been a good way to signal to the audience "we're going to recast some of the characters you're familiar with", and open the door for Luke to be played by Sebastian Stan or whoever rather than being a digital homunculus.

The door to Sebastian Stan being the new Luke has closed IMO, he's 42 now and is getting cast in actual good films + whatever Marvel obligations he still has.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Roth posted:

With infinite time and resources will Disney eventually make something better than the Prequels? It doesn't seem to have worked so far.

Andor exists, ya know. That’s like 8 movies that are better than the prequels.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

No Mods No Masters posted:

Disney is going to run anything successful into the ground whether anyone likes it or not (baby yoda's show).

Fortunately it appears andor was not particularly successful outside the demimonde of age 35-50 posters so we should be safe

Objectively this show is a top 5 streaming original.

Whatever that means, and whatever you want to use to measure success, people are watching the show.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Tezzord posted:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3837020&userid=209402&perpage=40&pagenumber=6

I was looking into one of my favorite posters from the old thread, Cnut the Great, and found that he left not long after I did. What happened? Was he an intolerable prequel hater like me? Quite the opposite. For those who don't remember, he was an inveterate prequel apologist and hall of fame George Lucas dickrider, who used to make long posts about how the prequels were deep and smart. So what happened? Well, it turns out that George Lucas made several statements where he said that droids are not people and don't have souls, and Cnut, ever the good little soldier, took his word for it. You can imagine what happened next: he was swarmed and called a bigot, a fascist and a racist. The absolute worst behavior of the hectoring, scolding, Vampire's Castle internet, but not even about a real person's identity, rather about the personhood of imaginary robots in a movie for idiots. Of course, I had been mean to him too, but I didn't call him a Nazi for saying battle droids aren't people, and part of me says "live by the dogpile, die by the dogpile," but in all sincerity I do feel a little bad. He thought you were his friends and you all turned on him instantly and viciously for Pretend Robot Wrongthink. Personally I can take this absurd behavior, I think it's hilarious how puffy and condescending you get about completely made-up poo poo that matters to nobody including the author of the films, but that fat, soft little nerd was clearly confused and upset and left forever. Do you have any shame at all?

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

2house2fly posted:

I enjoyed the stories in the Knights Of The Old Republic games, but the combat system doesn't stand up on its own. I probably have the fondest memories of the old Battlefront 2, particularly the Galactic Conquest mode. I keep meaning to replay TIE Fighter, I loved it as a kid, but it needs a joystick and while you can hack it to play with a mouse that probably feels awful

I still have bootleg copies of TIE Fighter on 3.5" floppy disks somewhere, including 1 or 2 expansions. I would say that was probably my favorite Star Wars game of all time, but Rebel Assault will always have a fond place in my memory because it was the first Star Wars game I legit bought and I played the crap out of it.

As for more modern games, I think Jedi Survivor is my favorite.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
I still like watching The Last Jedi once in a while because Steve Yedlin made the best looking Star Wars film

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

CelticPredator posted:

1997 cgi is rear end

The current version is from the work they did on the 2004 DVD version but it still looks like poo poo

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
I do like the look of The Phantom Menace, especially given the setting, but I think the other 2 prequels visually look like poo poo and always have.

It’s doubly bad when you look at films that were contemporary to the prequels, I’m thinking The Matrix, Lord of the Rings, Gladiator, and Black Hawk Down.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
I don’t have a problem with how the prequels look because of the production design, I’m clear what is being communicated.

I have a problem with how they look because George made every shot look flat as hell and the camera work is uninspired. I used to think this was down to the digital cameras they used (a first for Hollywood cinema) but Battlestar Galactica used the same camera and that show looks infinitely more cinematic than the prequels, despite that show’s style being more of a run and gun docuseries than a sci-fi epic.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Roth posted:

What are examples of the flat looking shots and uninspired camera work in the Prequels?

For some reason I can't screencap anything on Disney Plus on any device I own, so I just took screenshots from Youtube clips. I'm pretty sure some of the color information is kind of hosed from the Youtube compression, but hopefully it's enough to make my point. I'm only going to address flat looking shots because that's easier to communicate via screengrabs, camera work is going to be more heavily a function of how the camera moves and that requires video (and making GIF's is way too much effort).

When I say flat, I'm using it in 2 ways:
1)The lighting is set up in a way that there's very little relative shadow level in the shot, so everything is lit evenly and there's little separation between different elements within a given shot.
2)The shot itself doesn't create any depth and/or separation between foreground and background elements, either via shot composition (where you put people and things relative to the camera) or via lensing (using the camera lens to separate foreground and background elements).

Sometimes shots are flat in both ways.

Here's a common example, from Attack of the Clones when Obi-Wan visits the clone factory on Kamino:

Everything in the shot is evenly lit, every element of the shot is perfectly in focus, and Obi-Wan is dead center in the frame.

From the same scene:

This one has a little bit more going on lighting wise, but very similar to the last shot in that everything is in focus and the composition is very centered.

Here's a shot I *do* like from that scene, so it doesn't seem like I'm unfairly dragging the whole thing:

This shot is interesting because of the angle the camera is placed, because of how the characters are lit (there's a gradual light falloff as you approach the background), because the subject (the rightmost Jango) is planted on the edge of the frame in a way that focuses your attention on him, and because the lensing does separate the foreground and background elements in a way that's not too harsh. Lensing can be done poorly; White Lotus season 3 is full of awful closeups where everything is too much out of focus.

I also really like the use of perspective here, it creates a nice triangular symmetry in the frame. All combined this shot way better conveys the "foreverness" of the ranks of the clone army than the previous 2 shots because of the depth, the lighting, and the lensing.


Here's shots from Battlestar Galactica that I find interesting. I'm not gonna cherry pick from the entire series so I'm just gonna pick screenshots from a single scene in the show using a Youtube capture:



This scene is in a prison cell and the cinematographer is using a lot of the framing of the characters and the different elements of the set to isolate characters, enhancing the overall mood of separation and fear. They also use the reflection of the prisoner in the bottom of the frame to create an interesting triangular composition as the shot tracks from left to right through the scene.


The camera here is placed at ground angle looking up at our 2 main characters which conveys the power dynamics at work between the prisoner and the other characters, it's also objectifying (intentionally) in a dehumanizing way as you don't even see her face or the whole of her person, just a creepy partial view of her body. Also the prisoner is bathed in light while the other characters are in varying degrees of shadow, the darkest of all being her jailer all the way in the back of the shot. And again as in the previous shot, the use of the cell windows and door to isolate the characters.


From the very end of this scene, a closeup of 2 characters. I like this shot for a lot of reasons I liked the one from AOTC with the little Jango's - 2 main characters in the scene are light brightly relative to the background characters, the lensing puts them in clear focus while the other characters fall out of focus, and there's a nice bit of motivated camera composition - the background military guy is ostensibly a subordinate of the woman on the right, but he's always framed in this scene subtly more towards the man on the left, again conveying his characters reticence towards his superior.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

thrawn527 posted:

From that Star Wars Screen Caps site posted above (which is cool as hell, I didn't know that was a thing, definitely going to use that moving forward), here's a bigger version:



Which, yeah, that looks bad, but on a fundamental level, it's no worse than this:



People are just more used to the matte paintings. Even badly implemented ones.

I'll also take this moment to share the ugliest single shot in all of Star Wars, which is bad for a similar reason as the fake Temple (just some dudes in front of a green screen) but is so much worse:



I'll take the AotC shot over this one any day of the week.

Those all look bad but I’m not necessarily talking about the bad compositing, those shots are just incredibly prosaic.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.
Uhh, they are not dropping half a billion dollars on a film without a script. Think about how many different creative teams need to be working on a film like TFA concurrently. What a ludicrous idea to even entertain.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Blood Boils posted:


In the white and red frame, the lighting IS fairly even and the figures ARE centred, but why is this bad? I don't have a particularly good monitor atm but there's clearly a change in focus between Obiwan & the Kaminos and the Jangoes in the foreground and the increasingly blurrier fetuses and Jangoes in the background, so I don't know what you mean by "everything is in focus". I agree that the white & red are flat shots, and relatively poorly composited, but as thrawn527's post shows this is a constant feature of star wars. If it's a serious detraction in the PT, why not so in the OT?


It’s bad in the OT as well, the only cinematography I enjoy is from Empire Strikes Back. I can do a more detailed post when I get home tomorrow, but in general when everything is flatly lit and in focus, the cinematography gives you little to direct the eye towards. “It’s shot like a documentary” is a defense I’ve heard in this thread, but lots of films shot in that aesthetic look way better! I’m thinking of Battle of Algiers in particular, given the Andor connection.

In my minds eye I can think of several shots in ESB that are beautifully lit and framed and vastly superior to anything in the prequels and the rest of the OT. The closeup of Leia as they’re about to close the Hoth base doors, the camera slowly craning up on Vader as Han is frozen in carbonite, the wide shot of Luke and Vader dueling in the carbon chamber, even the compositing looks better. This is largely because of how the film is lit overall, they use a lot more contrast between light and darkness and, combined with the framing and lensing, creates more volume and DEPTH - both spatial depth and also depth in lightness and darkness.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiaroscuro

In art, chiaroscuro (English: /kiˌɑːrəˈsk(j)ʊəroʊ/ kee-AR-ə-SKOOR-oh, -⁠SKURE-, Italian: [ˌkjaroˈskuːro]; lit. 'light-dark') is the use of strong contrasts between light and dark, usually bold contrasts affecting a whole composition. It is also a technical term used by artists and art historians for the use of contrasts of light to achieve a sense of volume in modelling three-dimensional objects and figures.[1] Similar effects in cinema, and black and white and low-key photography, are also called chiaroscuro. Taken to its extreme, the use of shadow and contrast to focus strongly on the subject of a painting is called tenebrism.

Chiaroscuro is used in cinematography for extreme low key and high-contrast lighting to create distinct areas of light and darkness in films, especially in black and white films. Classic examples are The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920), Nosferatu (1922), Metropolis (1927) The Hunchback of Notre Dame (1939), The Devil and Daniel Webster (1941), and the black and white scenes in Andrei Tarkovsky's Stalker (1979).[28]

Blood Boils posted:


Fwiw I think you do a commendable job analyzing what these BSG frames communicate about the characters and setting, and how that reinforces the themes etc. But beyond acknowledging the how the PT shots emphasize the multitude of the Jango clones, you don't apply anywhere near the same level of consideration. Now I don't mean to imply anything deliberately dishonest or whatever on your part, but this uneven assessment is telling (if it makes you feel better it's unfortunately common across all art criticism, not just star wars). Surely if we can glean characterization and story from the battlestar images, we can do the same for AotC! What is the bright lighting and soft focus telling us about the Kamino operation? What does the placement of the subjects convey, both the centred and triangulated? It's important to be consistent in our criticisms, and not start with a conclusion and work backwards to prove it.

How is it not consistent? I posted one shot where I lauded the lighting and framing as more effectively conveying some kind of meaning about the story than the previous 2. I watched that whole scene and found that one shot of Daniel Logan so compelling relative to the rest that I called it out!

When nearly every shot is stylistically the same, it makes it harder to conclude any kind of meaning or motivated direction behind it. George shot almost every dialogue and exposition scene the same and didn’t put a whole lot of artistry behind it. The thing about the Plinkett reviews about endless shot/reverse shot dialogue scenes calls out, from a different perspective, the same kind of prosaic camera work that I’m calling out.

I looked up his cinematographer in the prequels, David Tattersall - in addition to not being able to remember a single frame of his other films, many of which I have seen, in watching a couple of the trailers to his films they’re similarly flatly lit with lots of wides. George found a guy who works just like he does, and Tattersall seems to have been a busy guy doing action schlock in the 2000’s.

I will concede that, with Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith in particular, the new camera they were using (which has way worse dynamic range than film) necessitated lighting those films differently. In addition, doing flat high key lighting in deep focus shots is probably easier for VFX artists to do work with. However, I keep bringing up Battlestar because they had to deal with the same camera with infinitely less time and money to make things work (including digital backdrops), and the visuals hold up well today despite the show obviously being produced on pocket change.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Maxwell Lord posted:

But not every shot is like that!

https://imgur.com/LI2ppcz

Here for example you've got a lot of lighting contrast and color contrast, and while they could have just shown Anakin talking to a Jawa, showing the sandcrawlers and their lit interiors conveys more of the mood of night falling and darkness growing, and it also is just kind of a nice bit of atmosphere. That's where the Jawas live! That's their home!


If the whole of the prequels had frames like this, well they’d look different (better).

As it is you’ve pulled out the best looking frame in this scene. Which follows a terribly lit/terribly composited frame of Anakin on the speeder.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

galagazombie posted:

Personally I’m all for bringing back Matte paintings. Not just for Star Wars, but for everything. Star Trek had some absolutely amazing matte paintings in the 90’s.

I mean, what is The Volume if not just a collection of giant, 3D, wraparound paintings?

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

Prolonged Panorama posted:

Crazy how much better the film version looks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeu1_sgd1Ac

It looks worse, it's just needlessly more contrasty. I dunno about doing film transfers but this doesn't look good at all. I prefer it how it is, despite the flaws I've pointed out.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

josh04 posted:

Yeah it's just been scanned badly. Look at this poo poo:


I wrote a thing about film scanning and perceived authenticity, if anyone's interested.

Whoa, this is a very good blog post. Pro click.

Edit: I feel compelled to engage because you put so much effort into writing that; having travelled out of my way to see the 70mm prints of Oppenheimer and Dune 2, followed by seeing both at an AMC dual laser, I much prefer the laser. For Dune part 2 in particular, the brightness and contrast levels of the laser projection in particular blows away the 70mm film version.

I feel like I’ve been someone duped by the IMAX marketing department into the value (and expense) of seeing the 70mm film.

1st AD fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Jun 1, 2025

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1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.

euphronius posted:

I think one reasons an unfair bias against the prequels exist is many people saw them in the 00s on awful televisions on dvds which just like objectively !!! Terrible

what

I watched that poo poo in theatres

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