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Is Sami Zayn a good friend?
This poll is closed.
[Truth] Yes 61 56.48%
[Truth] No, but only because I'm a monster 4 3.70%
[Lie] No 3 2.78%
[Lie] I'm Sami Zayn 40 37.04%
Total: 108 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

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Auritech
May 27, 2004

In every dream home a heartache

I think Roman should come out to the American Males theme song. It’d at least stop the booing for twenty seconds while the crowd is utterly confused

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


The sad thing is this isn't even a new problem. WWE (primarily Vince, I'd assume) still seem adamant that the wrestlers are basically props that can be casually and easily swapped in and out of roles and the audience will just buy it because it's THE BRAND that is the true star. When crowds were begging for Daniel Bryan and thought of WWE as not supporting him, WWE took the message of,"We can slot anybody into that role and it will work" and thus we got that awful storyline where THE AUTHORITY was upset and frustrated because Roman Reigns was getting title opportunities. It didn't work then, now they're literally doing it all over again only this time with an even more prominent "the writers are changing the promised storylines because of POLITICS!" bent to it.

Like somebody mentioned earlier, I think it would be hilarious if Roman actually got picked up by Hollywood and dumped WWE just so yet another of their "eggs in one basket" strategies could blow up in their face.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Rap terrorist, terrorise, tear it up
Brought gas and the matches to flare it up
Militant Michael might go psycho
On any ally or rival
Born Black, that's dead on arrival
My job is to fight for survival
In spite of these #AllLivesMatter-ass white folk


Lid posted:

Punk is a heavily tattooed antiauthoritarian punk who has no filter between his moutg and his brain and would sooner break than bend that they wanted to fire from developmental and was only brought up because of Paul Heyman incessantly advocating for him.

Bryan is a small, pale, hippy bearded, socialist, anti-capitalist who was putting on the best work day in day out without any reason to and was fired from the company because sponsors didnt like a tie choke on a childrens show.

Roman is...

Quoting self because i just realised i have literally no idea what Roman's character is. Thos is like red letter media asking people to describe Han Solo and C3P0 without referring to their job or appearance and then the same with Qui-Gon Jinn and Princess Amidala.

Edit: this has been my issue with Randy Orton for time immemorial too

Lid fucked around with this message at May 15, 2018 around 05:39

Astro7x
Aug 4, 2004
Thinks It's All Real

NowonSA posted:

Why the hell are Dolph and Mcintyre beating Finn and Braun? I guess it's kinda cool that they're being treated as people who can actually win matches, but there's got to be other bodies you can throw at them, at least initially.

Gotta give the new people on each brand a push. Same reason why all the new women are winning on Smackdown.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004



Fun Shoe

Lid posted:

Punk is a heavily tattooed antiauthoritarian punk who has no filter between his moutg and his brain and would sooner break than bend that they wanted to fire from developmental and was only brought up because of Paul Heyman incessantly advocating for him.

Bryan is a small, pale, hippy bearded, socialist, anti-capitalist who was putting on the best work day in day out without any reason to and was fired from the company because sponsors didnt like a tie choke on a childrens show.

Roman is...

Poop. From a butt.



I think the terribleness of this entire RAW is encapsulated in having Finn Balor eat a clean pin from Dolph loving Ziggler in TYOL 2018.

Lid posted:

Quoting self because i just realised i have literally no idea what Roman's character is. Thos is like red letter media asking people to describe Han Solo and C3P0 without referring to their job or appearance and then the same with Qui-Gon Jinn and Princess Amidala.

Edit: this has been my issue with Randy Orton for time immemorial too

Randy had a character once. 'Cocky young rear end in a top hat who knows he's better than everyone and everything'. 'Pose, hoes, RKOs' was a thing.

Then the writers got ahold of him and took everything remotely interesting out of his character, and he decided to wrestle at half speed.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at May 15, 2018 around 05:50

Strawberry Panda
Nov 4, 2007

Breakfast Defecting, Slow Dick Touching, Root Beer Barreling SwagVP


Dolph and Drew are collectively bigger than Braun and Finn so makes sense they won.

Baron Corbin
Oct 24, 2001

i'll always take care of you


Muldoon

Roman Reigns is the toughest, strongest guy on the roster. he's cool and quiet, and he's witty and clever. he plays by his own rules, and doesn't back down from anything, be it authority, or the latest superstar to challenge him. he's a good employee who sets a standard for his fellow superstars. he tells it like it is, he shoots from the hip, and frankly, he doesn't care whether you approve or not. he's supremely talented in the ring, exalted among his peers, and his endurance is matched by none. he knows what he wants and he's not afraid to take it, because he believes.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Rap terrorist, terrorise, tear it up
Brought gas and the matches to flare it up
Militant Michael might go psycho
On any ally or rival
Born Black, that's dead on arrival
My job is to fight for survival
In spite of these #AllLivesMatter-ass white folk


Liquid Communism posted:



Randy had a character once. 'Cocky young rear end in a top hat who knows he's better than everyone and everything'. 'Pose, hoes, RKOs' was a thing.

Then the writers got ahold of him and took everything remotely interesting out of his character, and he decided to wrestle at half speed.

Incidentally silver spoon cocky rear end in a top hat would fit Roman to a tee and make organic sense. Like the fundamental thing of Punk and Bryan are these stories require an entire lifetime to establish. Romans wrestling storyline is football player from the Anoa'i royalty that got his big break in being hand picked to replace Kassius Ohno/Chris Hero. Run with that! Hell make him a wrestling beast that beats up everuone because he cant handle the pressure of these expectations for him to fit into the shoes of Yokozuna or The Rock and that rather than the authority screwing him over they are screwing him by making him gave all this pressure on him to be something he isnt - which incidentally WAS the main event Bryan storyline and would copy the fundamental isea of that he was a babyface by being true to himself.

Dimebags Brain
Feb 18, 2013





I was with my mom on mother's day (shocking I know), and she mentioned that she had heard or seen that there was a wrestling show last weekend that was bad and she asked me if I knew about it. I was all ready to leap into a thirty minute explanation of The Saga of Roman Reigns but then I realized I would have to go back to 2013 and I just stopped.

This poo poo's been going on for five years holy poo poo just staaaaaahp.

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?


Roman needs to co-opt Nakamura’s ball-punching gimmick, but instead of punching people in their nuts, he kicks them in the nuts. And he does it with such intense Big Dog-esque force, they immediately start puking all over the place while their eyes are watering.

Roman’s new theme song is Kickstart My Heart by Mötley Crüe, also. It’s got a memorable opening hook! Vince Neil will probably license the song for a handshake an a BLT sandwich.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrOemQaEJGU

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Rap terrorist, terrorise, tear it up
Brought gas and the matches to flare it up
Militant Michael might go psycho
On any ally or rival
Born Black, that's dead on arrival
My job is to fight for survival
In spite of these #AllLivesMatter-ass white folk


All wrestling things need an identifiable opening sound. I recommend stadium lights turning on and a chk chkDun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WccfbPQNMbg

Faustian Bargain
Apr 12, 2014



Jerusalem posted:

The sad thing is this isn't even a new problem. WWE (primarily Vince, I'd assume) still seem adamant that the wrestlers are basically props that can be casually and easily swapped in and out of roles and the audience will just buy it because it's THE BRAND that is the true star. When crowds were begging for Daniel Bryan and thought of WWE as not supporting him, WWE took the message of,"We can slot anybody into that role...
Remember when they said Daniel Bryan was only “chant over” and then tried to transfer it to big show

Stephanie still does the yes chant when she has an announcement.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

And if I'm gonna cry, I don't need your shoulder.

A question for those who watched:

Were Bo and Axel heel vs. The Fashion Police? Which team was more over, if at all?

Where do you think they are going with Bo and Axel? Will it end in a damp fart like all of the other 'comedy' stables that the WWE has lumped these two entertaining performers?

I miss the slow burn of Bo's streak, and I hated the way they unceremoniously ended it with R-Truth and never spoke of it again. I truly believe that Curtis Axel is better in ring, on mic, and in general than the powers that be ever give him credit for. And I like their Bulk and Skull dynamic, (which is stolen from the old Rybaxel days.)

Baron Corbin
Oct 24, 2001

i'll always take care of you


Muldoon

BrigadierSensible posted:

A question for those who watched:

Were Bo and Axel heel vs. The Fashion Police? Which team was more over, if at all?

Where do you think they are going with Bo and Axel? Will it end in a damp fart like all of the other 'comedy' stables that the WWE has lumped these two entertaining performers?

I miss the slow burn of Bo's streak, and I hated the way they unceremoniously ended it with R-Truth and never spoke of it again. I truly believe that Curtis Axel is better in ring, on mic, and in general than the powers that be ever give him credit for. And I like their Bulk and Skull dynamic, (which is stolen from the old Rybaxel days.)

the fashion police were more over. both teams were over and i wasn't paying enough attention to notice if they were working heel

if the WWE was smart the B-team would work a short program with Hardy and Wyatt and then team up and make a stable of weird guys. they could play off Bray and Bo being brothers. but they won't do this and the angle won't go anywhere and the B-team probably won't have a speaking role on Raw after this angle.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Rap terrorist, terrorise, tear it up
Brought gas and the matches to flare it up
Militant Michael might go psycho
On any ally or rival
Born Black, that's dead on arrival
My job is to fight for survival
In spite of these #AllLivesMatter-ass white folk


Faustian Bargain posted:

Remember when they said Daniel Bryan was only “chant over” and then tried to transfer it to big show

Stephanie still does the yes chant when she has an announcement.

The thing is they can show that with guys like No Way Jose and Tye Dillinger, but both things are ignoring that the chant is one thing versus their actual ability. The Rock was only "chant over" and was a series of catch phrases the crowd would chant along to but you'd be insane to think that The Rock's chants were why he was The Rock. Of course they only remember the failures, never the successes.

sbaldrick
Jul 19, 2006
Driven by Hate


I know why they are bring back Hogan. Because Roman beating up a hogan that isn’t sorry might get him over

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

PONYTAR
PONYTAR
PONYTAR




I wanted Dolph to win but not like this!

NOT LIKE THIS!

The_Rob
Feb 1, 2007

musicals are garbage


Seriously everyone go watch Roman spear Jinder through cardboard. It's something special and I don't feel like it's getting enough attention.

rovert
Jun 10, 2013

I got your scoops right here.


Concerned that Vince will want to put his fingerprints on Almas whether it be a cape or a cool catchphrase

https://twitter.com/AndradeCienWWE/...279886946816000

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

Lid posted:

Quoting self because i just realised i have literally no idea what Roman's character is.
It's verbatim X-Pac's post-DX gimmick: "I was in a popular stable once. Kept the clothes and got a remix of the song. Remember how much you liked that stable?" Roman even has X-Pac heat to seal the comparison.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

Band-aids don't fix arrow wounds


Faustian Bargain posted:

Remember when they said Daniel Bryan was only “chant over” and then tried to transfer it to big show

Stephanie still does the yes chant when she has an announcement.
Yeah, it was "Catchphrase over" which was true of a couple people at the time, but Daniel Bryan proved he was actually over, and they still tried to derail him because he wasn't the person Vince wanted as the star of the company.

To be fair, they played chicken with Zack Ryder and Tye Dillinger too and they absolutely got derailed and didn't recover

Manic_Misanthrope
Jul 1, 2010

Stromgarde pincushion factory, est. whenever a Troll decides to get near.

Ragnarok the Red posted:

Real talk: would Roman even be cheered over Muhammad Hassan at this point?


No, Hassan's theme has a nostalgic meme element to it, plus it's great for interrupting lovely promos.

extradite THIS!
Mar 8, 2010





rovert posted:

Concerned that Vince will want to put his fingerprints on Almas whether it be a cape or a cool catchphrase

https://twitter.com/AndradeCienWWE/...279886946816000

I have an awful feeling that Almas will be the ultimate example of great talent being completely wasted on the main roster. I just can't see Vince handling an act like Almas & Vega the right way.

Edit: Like they'll probably get Maria & Mike Kanellis'ed in a matter of weeks or something

extradite THIS! fucked around with this message at May 15, 2018 around 07:37

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

Band-aids don't fix arrow wounds


extradite THIS! posted:

I have an awful feeling that Almas will be the ultimate example of great talent being completely wasted on the main roster. I just can't see Vince handling an act like Almas & Vega the right way.

Edit: Like they'll probably get Maria & Mike Kanellis'ed in a matter of weeks or something
Vanish from TV for a year because one is pregnant and the other is in rehab?

extradite THIS!
Mar 8, 2010





Become comedy jobbers who are barely on TV and then vanish forever, yes

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000



future scoopin'...


Lid posted:

Quoting self because i just realised i have literally no idea what Roman's character is. Thos is like red letter media asking people to describe Han Solo and C3P0 without referring to their job or appearance and then the same with Qui-Gon Jinn and Princess Amidala.

Edit: this has been my issue with Randy Orton for time immemorial too

Roman has had many really strong character moments over the years. His feud with Bryan when his blood-streamed face screamed WAIT TILL SUNDAY after weeks of being taunted by the absolute certainty on Bryan's part that their match was in the bag. His many small interactions of friendship and rivalry with Ambrose during the long chase for revenge on Seth. The time he torpedoed himself like 20 feet down the ramp to give Big Show on the best spears in WWE history. His first match with Brock where as the situation grew more and more hopeless he just started laughing despite being barely able to sit up. His reactions to and interactions with AJ during their one-on-one in the One Vs All Rumble. For all of the baggage around it and the comedy of the 20 minute rain of boos, "This is my yard now," will stick in people's memories for years to come.

Roman's big issue as a CHARACTER is that nothing ever tied together the pieces. The waters have been hopelessly muddled by contradictory storylines and motivations, mixed messaging, and an attempt to shoehorn him into things that have worked for others but make no sense for him. Their attempts to find a magic bullet to fix him while also refusing to take him off TV or depush him or turn him, the things you normally do when attempting to reboot a character, have made him a complete cipher.

IMO the biggest reason Dean was the hottest guy out of the shield for so long was because he was never that kind of cipher. He had clear motivations and a coherent concept to his character that allowed them to expand him and make him work in a huge variety of situations without the facade of who he was crumbling. Stone Cold once said that the thing holding Rollins back was this same issue, him being a collection of traits without a coherent center of gravity in the form of a motivation or image holding them together, and one the reasons he's gotten so hot is because that problem had been fixed. For Roman is may never be fixed because they won't allow Roman to experience the kind of in-universe consequences, character development, breaking down and rebuilding that Seth got to experience over the last two years since his face turn, or that Dean had consistently through the first two years after the Shield breakup.

Molestationary Store
May 21, 2007



sticklefifer posted:

It's verbatim X-Pac's post-DX gimmick: "I was in a popular stable once. Kept the clothes and got a remix of the song. Remember how much you liked that stable?" Roman even has X-Pac heat to seal the comparison.

Yo you're lookin' at the roman factor.

Cavauro
Jan 9, 2008

andey...


One difference is that Mike & Maria are comedy jobber level talents while Vega and Almas are above it. But i understand that won't stop Vincent

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Rap terrorist, terrorise, tear it up
Brought gas and the matches to flare it up
Militant Michael might go psycho
On any ally or rival
Born Black, that's dead on arrival
My job is to fight for survival
In spite of these #AllLivesMatter-ass white folk


Sanguinia posted:

Roman has had many really strong character moments over the years. His feud with Bryan when his blood-streamed face screamed WAIT TILL SUNDAY after weeks of being taunted by the absolute certainty on Bryan's part that their match was in the bag. His many small interactions of friendship and rivalry with Ambrose during the long chase for revenge on Seth. The time he torpedoed himself like 20 feet down the ramp to give Big Show on the best spears in WWE history. His first match with Brock where as the situation grew more and more hopeless he just started laughing despite being barely able to sit up. His reactions to and interactions with AJ during their one-on-one in the One Vs All Rumble. For all of the baggage around it and the comedy of the 20 minute rain of boos, "This is my yard now," will stick in people's memories for years to come.

Roman's big issue as a CHARACTER is that nothing ever tied together the pieces. The waters have been hopelessly muddled by contradictory storylines and motivations, mixed messaging, and an attempt to shoehorn him into things that have worked for others but make no sense for him. Their attempts to find a magic bullet to fix him while also refusing to take him off TV or depush him or turn him, the things you normally do when attempting to reboot a character, have made him a complete cipher.

IMO the biggest reason Dean was the hottest guy out of the shield for so long was because he was never that kind of cipher. He had clear motivations and a coherent concept to his character that allowed them to expand him and make him work in a huge variety of situations without the facade of who he was crumbling. Stone Cold once said that the thing holding Rollins back was this same issue, him being a collection of traits without a coherent center of gravity in the form of a motivation or image holding them together, and one the reasons he's gotten so hot is because that problem had been fixed. For Roman is may never be fixed because they won't allow Roman to experience the kind of in-universe consequences, character development, breaking down and rebuilding that Seth got to experience over the last two years since his face turn, or that Dean had consistently through the first two years after the Shield breakup.

All these events you mentioned and I literally can't remember any of them except maybe the spear. When I think of Roman biggest moments the first (and essentially only) thing that comes to mind is "c'mon guys, i'm not a bad guy, i'm not a good guy, i am THE guy" which is the saddest thing in the world but the smug smirks when he says "c'mon guys" might be the most authentic thing Roman has ever done.

Edit: oh and his first Rumble appearance where he was beating everyone, threw out both Shield mates to cheers, and people really really wanted him rather than Batista (with Bryan gone) hell i barely remember his second Rumble appearance apart form the Rock hand raise, most of my memories of that were the sight of Kane and the Big Show dumping Dolph and Dean over the top rope and Bryan getting tossed randomly by Bray

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Cavauro posted:

One difference is that Mike & Maria are comedy jobber level talents while Vega and Almas are above it. But i understand that won't stop Vincent

Which, if it happens, would be extra maddening since Almas is basically everything Vince has been looking for in a new Mexican superstar apart from not having the best English in the world (which shouldn't loving matter, especially with Vega there).

Dragonatrix
Aug 16, 2009

You have offended STRINGIE! You must be punished!


Molestationary Store posted:

Yo you're lookin' at the roman factor.

I know you hate that fact R Factor, but you ain't gotta look at him like that.

rovert
Jun 10, 2013

I got your scoops right here.


Brie doesn't hold back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKbRBJrlfY8

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

Band-aids don't fix arrow wounds


Brie sounds so much more natural than Nikki does in that clip, even though I'm sure it's 200% scripted either way.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004



Fun Shoe

Lid posted:

Incidentally silver spoon cocky rear end in a top hat would fit Roman to a tee and make organic sense. Like the fundamental thing of Punk and Bryan are these stories require an entire lifetime to establish. Romans wrestling storyline is football player from the Anoa'i royalty that got his big break in being hand picked to replace Kassius Ohno/Chris Hero. Run with that! Hell make him a wrestling beast that beats up everuone because he cant handle the pressure of these expectations for him to fit into the shoes of Yokozuna or The Rock and that rather than the authority screwing him over they are screwing him by making him gave all this pressure on him to be something he isnt - which incidentally WAS the main event Bryan storyline and would copy the fundamental isea of that he was a babyface by being true to himself.

Can we just quietly replace him with Hero instead? I know -I- wouldn't be complaining about Hero having his 5th WWE Universal Title match this year...

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

Band-aids don't fix arrow wounds


Liquid Communism posted:

Can we just quietly replace him with Hero instead? I know -I- wouldn't be complaining about Hero having his 5th WWE Universal Title match this year...
There was a brief, brief time where Hero looked like he could have actually been that guy but his thyroid problems inflated him like a balloon and now he's never going to be a mainstay on the roster. He came in too early for the NXT revolution, then came back late enough that he's a better player-coach for the roster and will probably end up in a Regal or Sara Del Rey type roll.

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

Molestationary Store posted:

Yo you're lookin' at the roman factor.
Roman Reigns, Curt Hawkins in the Justin Credible role, and maybe Lars Sullivan standing in for A-Train? Who's the modern equivalent of Uncle Kracker?

Sanguinia posted:

The time he torpedoed himself like 20 feet down the ramp to give Big Show on the best spears in WWE history.
It was also one of the most unsafe spears I've ever seen. He launched himself on a decline head-first directly into Show's chest.

sticklefifer fucked around with this message at May 15, 2018 around 08:35

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Rap terrorist, terrorise, tear it up
Brought gas and the matches to flare it up
Militant Michael might go psycho
On any ally or rival
Born Black, that's dead on arrival
My job is to fight for survival
In spite of these #AllLivesMatter-ass white folk


Liquid Communism posted:

Can we just quietly replace him with Hero instead? I know -I- wouldn't be complaining about Hero having his 5th WWE Universal Title match this year...

I have no memory of Roman ever being champion. I know he has had the belt but when i visualise Austin i see a smoking skull, Rock tge big eagle on his shoulder, Triple H holsing the belt aloft while spitting, Cena always with the spinner... Roman... an empty vest.

Hes closer to Mankind really. He may be handpicked to be the face but he is not a champion.

Edit: scratch that hes Matt Morgan with commentary saying hes The Blueprint of what a champion should look like but gently caress Matt Morgan ever being champion

Prokhor Zakharov
Dec 31, 2008
Good luck with your depression!


*boos Roman loudly*

"I'm a large dog"

*booing intensifies*

*Vince nods and smiles*

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

Band-aids don't fix arrow wounds


Roman is a biproduct of Vince's thinking that nobody is bigger than the WWE Brand and he's right in a begrudging way. No matter how much people hate Roman, they'll still tune in to watch a AJ Styles vs Nakamura match end in a double DQ or "only" pay for the WWE Network to watch old PPVs and NXT Takeover

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?




The fact the corridor behind it was there was bad enough, but leaving the sign up made it even clearer it was put up for the spot in the cheapest way possible.

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