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by design. eyeballing a super steep mountain irl gives you no sense of scale. that's why triangulation is a big deal.
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May 17, 2018 19:15
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lofi posted:Yeah, I think you're right, that would make more sense. If we're nearer the edge of the map, positioning is going to be tricky with so much we can't see - we'll need to basically ignore everything we can see to the east. Now that I'm distinguishing forests and rivers right, that seems like it could be it. A quick note, I don't know if any of us were accounting for the magnetic declination. I'm not sure which way it goes. Wikipedia seemed to suggest that a positive declination means our compass points us clockwise of our actual direction. But this position only makes sense if we assume that's it's the other way round. And I couldn't see other locations that made sense to me. I'm gonna assume it's right for now. When we start walking, we should be able to sort such things out pretty quickly. The good news is that the original travel plan is still pretty much valid. The bad news is that we may have an additional river crossing. When we start walking (after seeing what we have from the plane), we should initiall head along level ground to west-north-west (west on our compass). That should take us roughly to where we first estimated we were.
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May 17, 2018 19:18
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Coolguye posted:by design. eyeballing a super steep mountain irl gives you no sense of scale. that's why triangulation is a big deal. Yeah but with these graphics and that plane's scale, it almost seems like the mountain is just 100 yards away. I've been through the mountains a lot and I can safely say I've never made that kind of mistake. idhrendur posted:Now that I'm distinguishing forests and rivers right, that seems like it could be it. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to say whether the magnetic declination is positive or negative, just that it's magnetic north rather than true north. We probably won't be able to figure out the accuracy until we hit more landmarks.
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May 17, 2018 19:23
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lofi posted:Yeah, I think you're right, that would make more sense. If we're nearer the edge of the map, positioning is going to be tricky with so much we can't see - we'll need to basically ignore everything we can see to the east. How far off map can you walk? What happens if you try?
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May 17, 2018 20:22
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This procedural generation of maps seems like a very interesting feature. Can it somehow be lifted off the game to use in a more modern framework?
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May 17, 2018 22:04
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doubtful. even if you could get the source code (considering the lack of source control back in those days, it's quite likely that the source literally no longer exists), it's going to be creating it in such a way that it likely won't make sense for a modern framework that has to interpret that data cleanly. besides, unity has a terrain toolkit available for free to do that portion of things on modern systems. one of the reasons this game works is precisely because it DOESN'T let you just go wander around out there, though. you just start walking and it time-lapses to when something happens or you tell it you wanted to stop walking. there is no need to compress or abridge the terrain and the bigness of what you're seeing. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 22:12 on May 17, 2018 |
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May 17, 2018 22:08
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Okay, now that we have a decent guesstimation of where we are and where we need to go, let's check on how we're doing and what resources we have available! Typing STATUS (or simply S) brings us to this screen. Most of the info is self explanatory. If we had access to an altimeter we'd know the exact altitude we're on, but without one we're left with a rough indication of our current altitude. Any kind of activity on a high altitude is more strenuous due to a lack of oxygen. Similarly, without a thermometer we have no exact measurement of temperature - we're stuck with a general summary of FREEZE/COLD/NICE/WARM/HOT. You'll note that a different temperature is indicated for the general environment and our personal status: The first is an estimation of the outdoor temperature, the second an estimation of our body temperature, taking into account our clothing, heating sources, and shelter. And yes, the game simulates excess body fat being a source of cold resistance. You'll note that we're also shivering due to the cold temperature: This is where the game lists symptoms and injuries. "Shivering" has a quite obvious cause: We're cold. If we were too warm we'd be sweating instead, resulting in greater loss of fluids and possibly at risk of freezing later on in a cold climate. "Slope" indicates the slope of terrain measured in degrees from the horizontal. A positive number is an uphill slope, a negative a downhill slope. The first number indicates the slope in the direction we are facing, the second number indicates the slope of the general area (as far as I know, relating to the nearest peak). For example, if looking uphill towards a peak would show 30/30, looking downhill would show -30/30. The food and water numbers show the amount of food available at this location - since we're at the airplane full of supplies, there's a whole lot here.   Here's the full list of supplies available in the airplane wreck - it's a lot! Our maximum carrying capacity is 1146 ounces (32.5kg), which is quite a lot! Goonpa is rather buff for an old fat short person! Note that this amount is the absolute most we can carry - our going will be very slow if we're at our maximum carrying capacity. Items can either be on the ground (GND or -G), carried (CRRY or -C), worn (WEAR) or packed (PACK or -P). Most things should and will usually be packed, with a few exceptions. I'm not sure if the game penalises you for carrying things around in your arms rather than putting them in your backpack like a normal person, but if I know it right it probably does. For those of you who were speculating, as far as I know you're guaranteed to have a backpack in your starting equipment. (correct me if I'm wrong, goons who have played this game a lot on higher difficulties!) The function of most items should be pretty self-explanatory, here's a few hints for those that maybe aren't: Ground cover - A large plastic waterproof plastic ground cover. Can be used for many things: an impromptu rain coat, a roof for a temporary shelter, or (if we we're in a hot climate) even a rain still for purifying water. Rain coat - fills mostly the same functions as a ground cover, besides the obvious application Oxygen - Used to avoid altitude sickness, but can also be useful for treating shock Watch - A watch allows us to not only tell the exact time of day (helpful!) but would also be useful as a navigation tool if we we're unlucky enough to not have compass. Pitons - Metal spikes with eyes, used for mountain climbing. Only useful with a rope. Stove - Very practical for cooking food or boiling water without access to firewood, but needs fuel to work. Magnifying glass - Useful for being a wilderness detective, but also for lighting fires in sunny conditions. Flagyl - Used to treat a specific parasite infection encountered in tropic and subtropic regions. A strange thing to pack for a trip to Canada. So hey, it's like one of those exercises you're forced to do on kick-offs and weekend conferences! You know, "you're stuck on a desert island, which items on this arbitrary list do you prioritise?" Only, this time our life depends on it!  To help you out, the manual helpfully provides a list of the specifics of the foods we can bring with us. Note that foods marked with a * are freeze dried, meaning that they weigh very little and will never spoil, but will require the use of our limited water supply for consumption. Also, our canteen can hold exactly 64 ounces of water. With all this in mind, specify all the things you want us to pack for our trek towards the ranger station, in order of priority. Any and all items over our carrying capacity will be left behind. Please don't forget to pack enough food! Also, please keep discussing our current location and travel plans - I'd argue that this first step is the most critical part of this game (or a real life survival situation): All the equipment and food you can carry won't help if you're walking in circles for weeks, and conversely knowing exactly where to go won't help if you're left without proper tools and too little food! Of course, if anything I've covered so far is unclear at this point, just ask!
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May 17, 2018 22:40
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weight and dimensions of the 'stove' would be appreciated. it's never clear if these games are talking about big cast iron dutch ovens or a flat kerosene-powered single hotplate affair. beyond that: a local may correct me, but from my excursions in minnesota, snakes tend to gently caress off for hibernation by september that far north, this time of year we are unlikely to run into snakes at all - furthermore, there's relatively few venomous snakes that far north. the game does handle regional chill, so those leather gloves will be helpful for preventing casual frostnip (though obviously they won't be helpful in a situation where actual frostbite is a concern). ditto with that balaclava. the knife can be used as a can-opener for the tuna. the sunglasses are not superfluous and will actually help against glare. it has the mechanical effect of making you more likely to get warned of something like a wild animal before it is upon you. the game does NOT simulate a balanced diet and only cares that you get enough calories to eat and enough hydration. the fuel has uses even if one leaves the stove behind - the game actually takes into account how wet or windy it is so don't expect to be able to strike a fire with one match all the time. fuel can be added in to act as lighter fluid in these cases. do note that obtaining one's own food in this game is loving complicated, and you are not going to just be able to rely on a river or forest any time you're near one like many survival games. there will be opportunities for opportunistic gathering, but do not expect to be able to feed oneself trivially so long as you have fishing gear or a gun for hunting. do note that the spoilage there is at 65F, and it's currently below freezing in game. i wouldn't expect it to get much warmer that far north in october. the game does model this and spoilage will happen somewhat more slowly. i intend for none of this to be taken as actual suggestions by covski, only a resource for people in the thread. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 23:09 on May 17, 2018 |
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May 17, 2018 23:03
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My god, it's the mother of all mapgames and I love it already. I think here should work with mag dec:  Without doing any weight math we want to change into mostly woolen clothing including gloves and balaclava. Most of the cotton stuff probably isn't worth the weight. Raincoat is a must for outerwear in a storm. Maybe pack the parka and use it for a dry change of clothes. Can always dump it if it proves too heavy. Tempted to take the tennis shoes for when our boots wear out but weight probably will prevent that. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 23:17 on May 17, 2018 |
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May 17, 2018 23:05
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As mentioned, yes, one of the difficulties with the game is the ability to gauge distances due to the graphics engine. As a general rule, it's better to assume that things are far away and navigate by landmarks in relation to each other, rather than assuming that you can easily tell how close to something you are.quote:Magnetic declination I *think* the game would properly show a minus sign if we were in an area with negative magnetic declination. A quick check on the Wikipedia page shows that British Columbia indeed has a positive magnetic declination, meaning that magnetic north is slightly east of true north. There's no really easy rule of thumb to know the declination in a particular part of the world (for most populated areas, it's related to longitude rather than latitude, but not always), so we either have to trust the game or check a real life source. But again, on the scale the game uses we don't really have to worry too much about it: Navigating using landmarks in combination with a general idea of cardinal directions is always better than relying on compass course alone! RBA Starblade posted:How far off map can you walk? What happens if you try? Afaik, the game renders the terrain outside the playing area as far as you can see, but it won't allow you to step out of it. I'm not sure how explicit the game is in telling you if you try, however.
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May 17, 2018 23:19
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I'm going to divide my categories into WEAR, CARRY, and PACK. They're still in priority order from top to bottom in those categories. WEAR * Down parka * Wool pants * Wool sweater * Leather gloves * Balaclava * Jeans * Boots * Cotton jersey PACK * Canteen * Water * Nuts * Candy bars * Bread * Matches * Fishing gear * Knife * First aid kit * Ground cover * Sleeping bag CARRY * Watch * Compass * Topographic map
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May 17, 2018 23:23
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When I saw 'raft' on the list for a sec there I imagined a wooden raft just being there on a plane for no reason.
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May 17, 2018 23:29
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Agreed with chitoryu, with the exceptions that we should grab the magnifying glass as well (more ways to start fire = better), and stuff our goon belly before we head out, eat & drink what we can of what we don't take.Jaguars! posted:mag dec:  e: also the gun take the gun, we have zero chance of fighting off anything bigger than a stoat otherwise. lofi fucked around with this message at 23:58 on May 17, 2018 |
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May 17, 2018 23:32
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Coolguye posted:weight and dimensions of the 'stove' would be appreciated. it's never clear if these games are talking about big cast iron dutch ovens or a flat kerosene-powered single hotplate affair. The manual states the weight to be 32oz (0,93kg) and the volume to be 120 squares inches, so it's presumably a quite light weight camping stove.
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May 17, 2018 23:32
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So does the game model the effects of wearing too much while engaging in physical activities? If yes then we should pack most of our warm clothes and just wear something for the wind as we walk ourselves warm.
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May 17, 2018 23:37
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For a stove of comparable size and weight, this is pretty similar. So yeah, just a small camp stove that easily fits in a backpack.Affi posted:So does the game model the effects of wearing too much while engaging in physical activities? The temperature is currently listed as "freezing", so I'm not too confident in us walking it off.
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May 17, 2018 23:40
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It's a good point. When you carry a heavy pack, you will produce a lot of body heat. I've seen a guy get heat exhaustion in about 10°C because he was wearing thermals, smock and jacket while trying to carry a load up a mountain.
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May 17, 2018 23:44
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Affi posted:So does the game model the effects of wearing too much while engaging in physical activities? If you can reasonably assume the game is capable of modelling something given what you know about the mechanics, it probably does! Wearing too warm clothing in relatively cold weather can be a real issue, as sweating will cause you to freeze very rapidly as soon as you stop exercising. If any of you have watched Survivorman, you'll fondly remember all the times he went "Oh welp I inadvertently started sweating, now I'll have to keep walking all through the night so I don't freeze to death." And if you've never watched Survivorman, you really should watch Survivorman. On that note, feel free to use this thread to discuss wilderness survival related media and other topics: There's a good chance anything discussed will be relevant to the game at some point!
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May 17, 2018 23:49
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i'm 85% sure you can WEAR the watch and do not need to CARRY it.
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May 17, 2018 23:51
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If we're agreed on roughly where we are, and what direction to take, do we want to cross the river, or walk the extra distance to go around it? My thinking is to walk WNW (keeping to as level a path as possible) till we hit the river, then follow it north keeping an eye out for promising crossing points. Till we see if it's a piddly stream or a raging wall of death it's hard to decide on a crossing, imo. Also, are we better off packing heavy (on the principle that we can drop stuff later if we've got too much) or light (because Goonpa)? lofi fucked around with this message at 00:00 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 17, 2018 23:56
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How many here have genuinely considered what someone 50 inches tall and 350 pounds would look like? For reference, 60 inches is 5 feet. I'm fairly sure you wouldn't be able to see this thing's limbs. We're better off rolling towards wherever we wanna go.
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May 18, 2018 00:13
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Uphill e: Average men's height in the US is 69.3" (according to the first google result) We are 50", or 0.72 of average. We weigh 350lbs. On an averagely tall dude, that would be equivalent to 485lbs. We are hosed. lofi fucked around with this message at 00:24 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 00:16
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Fuuka Ayase posted:How many here have genuinely considered what someone 50 inches tall and 350 pounds would look like? For reference, 60 inches is 5 feet. I'm fairly sure you wouldn't be able to see this thing's limbs. We're better off rolling towards wherever we wanna go. I looked at body gallery sites that let you see what people of a particular height and weight look like, and 5 feet tall and 350 pounds doesn't even exist. The closest we can get is 5'2 and 330 pounds on a woman. 
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May 18, 2018 00:22
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Well, sounds like goonpa could stand to use a little weight! I think this is more or less my packing list: Wear: Wool Sweater Wool pants Wool socks Boots Watch Gloves Balaclava (Pack if room) Sunglasses Knife (If possible) Pack: Canteen Water Matches Topo map Compass Raincoat Nuts Rice Knife Repellent Candy bars Fuel Cheese ground cover first aid sleeping bag Potatoes Stove Parka Tent soap Tennis shoes Flashlight Carry Rope Gun Bread I reckon live well off the heavy foods for the first few days to try and keep our health up before a lighter dash to the ranger station. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 00:31 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 00:29
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Imagine that but an entire foot shorter.
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May 18, 2018 00:29
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What kind of gun is it, do we have any way of knowing? Is it capable of killing anything or just trying to scare it? Also not convinced we're going to be able to carry most of this stuff. If only the goonmind had created a vaguely functioning human body to use. edit: does the stove come with any kind of pot? I figure we'll need to boil our drinking water but that's only useful if we have something to boil it in. Black Robe fucked around with this message at 05:23 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 05:20
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Black Robe posted:What kind of gun is it, do we have any way of knowing? Is it capable of killing anything or just trying to scare it? Coolguye fucked around with this message at 06:09 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 06:03
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My only vote is for us to have two sets of clothes so that we can walk in one and rest in the other (preferably warmer)
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May 18, 2018 06:11
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Okay, looks like I misunderstood the temperature condition. If it's around freezing point, then wading or swimming across a river is going to be a major problem. If our clothes get soaking wet, and we cannot immediately set up a fire and change into dry clothes, it might very well incapacitate us. When we start to move, I think we should first try it in the lighter clothing to see if the exercise keeps us warm enough. I would rather be slightly cold, than sweaty and making our heavier clothing damp.Covski posted:Wearing too warm clothing in relatively cold weather can be a real issue, as sweating will cause you to freeze very rapidly as soon as you stop exercising. If any of you have watched Survivorman, you'll fondly remember all the times he went "Oh welp I inadvertently started sweating, now I'll have to keep walking all through the night so I don't freeze to death." And if you've never watched Survivorman, you really should watch Survivorman. Yeah, this. Is there any possibility of carrying the raft with us? I can't see a reasonable route around the rivers. The greatest risk to us I can see right now, is us getting our clothes, lighter and matches wet, and freezing into a Rubenesque sculpture. Also immediately eat the bologna. We have to sustain our titanic mass!
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May 18, 2018 09:09
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I've never heard of this, it's awesome as hell especially given the age. I really have no suggestions but I have to wonder if The Long Dark took some inspiration from this.
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May 18, 2018 09:48
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Black Robe posted:edit: does the stove come with any kind of pot? I figure we'll need to boil our drinking water but that's only useful if we have something to boil it in. The stove does indeed not come with a pot, and you figure correctly - you would need to USE UTENSILS to boil water, utensils that the game has helpfully not provided. The stove is still useful for cooking food without the hassle of making a fire, but it's up to ya'll to decide if it's worth the extra weight. StoryTime posted:Is there any possibility of carrying the raft with us? I can't see a reasonable route around the rivers. The greatest risk to us I can see right now, is us getting our clothes, lighter and matches wet, and freezing into a Rubenesque The raft is inflatable and absolutely carryable, but it's rather heavy and bulky at 96oz (2.7kg) and 400 cubic inches. It's also possible to build a raft ourself, but without a proper tool such as an axe, it would be extremely hard work and take a very long time. Huh, checking it now the manual specifies that the raft can carry a load of 350 pounds. Goonpa weighs 350 pounds ALL BY HIMSELF, without factoring in all the stuff he's bringing with him. Now I want to know if the game actually simulates overly obese people sinking inflatable rafts. Also, a note on the flashlight: Mechanically, it allows us to do things at full speed in the dark, whereas the same tasks would otherwise take a whole lot longer to perform.
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May 18, 2018 09:49
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How do people feel about the fishing rod? One thing I'm worried about, is that thanks to our bad condition, we just don't have the energy to walk through all the light hours. If we can't move all day, we'll also need more food to reach the cabin. Fishing could be an useful low energy activity, if and when we're too tired to push on. Do we need bait for the rod we have, or does it have a lure? I'm not sure how to go about finding bait this late in the year. Maybe cut the bark off a rotting log, insects could be hibernating there? Perhaps there are clams in the river?
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May 18, 2018 11:46
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StoryTime posted:How do people feel about the fishing rod? One thing I'm worried about, is that thanks to our bad condition, we just don't have the energy to walk through all the light hours. If we can't move all day, we'll also need more food to reach the cabin. Fishing could be an useful low energy activity, if and when we're too tired to push on. Do we need bait for the rod we have, or does it have a lure? I'm not sure how to go about finding bait this late in the year. Maybe cut the bark off a rotting log, insects could be hibernating there? Perhaps there are clams in the river? Even assuming Goonpa knows anything about fishing, and that there is bait or a lure, the temperature is 'freezing'. We probably don't want to be standing still for any length of time if we can avoid it, even with our blubber. If we get too tired to keep walking we'll need shelter and preferably fire. And someone noted earlier there's a decent chance the area around the river is marshy. Not sure the stove is worth carrying given that it's been confirmed there's no way of boiling water on it. Goonpa can eat raw food if he has to. Likewise no point taking stuff like rice because we can't cook that. Potatoes, possibly, we can cook those on any fire we manage, but I don't know if it's worth the weight. edit: actually no, we should take the stove just for heat. We can always drop it later. Black Robe fucked around with this message at 13:06 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 12:56
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Covski posted:Huh, checking it now the manual specifies that the raft can carry a load of 350 pounds. Goonpa weighs 350 pounds ALL BY HIMSELF, without factoring in all the stuff he's bringing with him.
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May 18, 2018 12:57
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Also we shouldn't exclude the ground cover and sleeping bag. Along with protecting us from the cold and wet while resting, the ground cover can be used to make a quick shelter.
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May 18, 2018 13:20
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I checked the manual a bit more and tested out a few things - it turns out you can craft improvised utensils quite easily from stuff just lying around!  Even so, it is assumed that you can cook any kind of food, including rice, without utensils, so utensils are really only necessary for boiling water. This is decently realistic though, as almost anything can be cooked using just a fire and some imagination. You can quite successfully cook rice over a fire in a milk carton with the top half cut off, for example.
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May 18, 2018 14:14
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Covski posted:I checked the manual a bit more and tested out a few things - it turns out you can craft improvised utensils quite easily from stuff just lying around! Or in our metal canteen! Metal canteens are generally a better option than plastic if you can afford the weight and lack of compressibility in an extreme survival situation because they can be used to boil water.
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May 18, 2018 14:16
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The scale of the map is so absurdly out of proportion that it's hard to tell where we are, but I think there's a good chance we're more to the southwest as someone else suggested. In the real world you can't find peaks of that size. It seems like a small moon, or maybe something scaled to a person about 10" (~30 cm) high. Our terrain is also largely devoid of trees, although maybe they are there, just only mapped when especially dense. We'll have to see once we start moving. Either way we want to go northerly, preferably toward a river so we can secure water. In this situation if we have river water available, we don't necessarily need to boil it - the risk of something that can incapacitate us is relatively low. We probably want to boil it/use for cooking just for the warmth, however. Kangra fucked around with this message at 15:53 on May 18, 2018 |
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May 18, 2018 15:46
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Here's the game manual so we can all look up stuff that we have questions about. It also includes good survival information, like how to use a watch for navigation. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to detail rules for boiling water, so it's a toss-up whether drinking river water straight from the banks will cure us or kill us.RBA Starblade posted:How far off map can you walk? What happens if you try? It looks like the game just gives you a warning and won't let you proceed if you hit the edge of the playable area.
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May 18, 2018 15:59
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Don't be soft, team. A little giardia never hurt anyone. Actually just take the flagyl and not even worry about boiling water.
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May 18, 2018 16:08
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