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lofi
Apr 2, 2018




Black Robe posted:

Even assuming Goonpa knows anything about fishing

How does the game handle skills? Are we assumed to know how to do stuff like fish?

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Black Robe
Sep 12, 2017

Generic Magic User


...I just noticed there's a rock listed on the inventory screen.

Is it a special rock?

Is it the only rock we'll have access to?

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




It was our father's rock.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

We should take the rock and keep it with us no matter what.

inscrutable horse
May 20, 2010

Parsing sage, rotating time



Dong Quixote posted:

Don't be soft, team. A little giardia never hurt anyone. Actually just take the flagyl and not even worry about boiling water.

E-coli? E-cool-i, I say! What's our immune system for, anyway?!

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

chitoryu12 posted:

Here's the game manual so we can all look up stuff that we have questions about. It also includes good survival information, like how to use a watch for navigation. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to detail rules for boiling water, so it's a toss-up whether drinking river water straight from the banks will cure us or kill us.


It looks like the game just gives you a warning and won't let you proceed if you hit the edge of the playable area.

That's less interesting than goonpa fading away into the endless horizon :v:

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

chitoryu12 posted:

Here's the game manual so we can all look up stuff that we have questions about. It also includes good survival information, like how to use a watch for navigation. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to detail rules for boiling water, so it's a toss-up whether drinking river water straight from the banks will cure us or kill us.
It DOES, but it does so in the second half of that pdf, which is available here. It's confusing because when you search it on Google, the second half does not show up, and you have to realize that the page numbers don't line up and then try changing a 1 to a 2 on a lark. Ask me how I know. :v:

Specifically, it mentions you can safely drink rainwater and water contained within plants (not relevant for this scenario, but very relevant for scenarios with cacti) without purifying it first. Riverwater will potentially cause issues.

idhrendur
Aug 20, 2016

Based on the existing discussion, I say we take two sets of clothes (and starting walking in the light ones), the ground cover, the sleeping bag, the raft, the stove (and fuel!), the matches, and a selection of food. Maybe other things, but we'll want those at the least.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Coolguye posted:

It DOES, but it does so in the second half of that pdf, which is available here. It's confusing because when you search it on Google, the second half does not show up, and you have to realize that the page numbers don't line up and then try changing a 1 to a 2 on a lark. Ask me how I know. :v:

Specifically, it mentions you can safely drink rainwater and water contained within plants (not relevant for this scenario, but very relevant for scenarios with cacti) without purifying it first. Riverwater will potentially cause issues.

All right, so assume as we do with real life: rainwater is safe, river and lake water may or may not kill us.

ChaseSP
Mar 25, 2013



Goonpa has plenty of raw calories to live off of. If only qe could just bring high nutrient food instead for the ultimate diet.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Also I want to say that if we're able to take the full load I suggested and still have more room, fill up the rest to a reasonable degree with the food we would otherwise leave behind.

Covski
Jun 24, 2007

Bringing the forums together with the greatest thread!
An update on our inventory situation (pictured with us carrying the backpack):





We've managed to pack everything the thread has suggested, including the more controversial items such as the stove, the raft and the fishing gear. As per chitoryu's suggestion, I've also packed all the freeze dried food items available. We could potentially carry a little bit more, but seeing how close we are to being unable to even lift our backpack, it might be wiser to considering if we want to leave anything behind rather than adding more weight. Then again, there will probably not be any second chances to bring with us anything we leave behind at this point.

Time to start discuss heading out! You generally just use the WALK command, combined with the length of time you wish to travel - the game will automatically stop you in case you encounter something noteworthy along the way. So now we need to decide on a direction to travel, and the length of our first leg of the journey. Please indicate either a compass direction (in degrees from north) or a visible spot I can aim for.

So, a short checklist:

Is there anything we want to add to or remove from our inventory before we go?

Is there anything at all we want to do before setting off?

In which direction are we walking, and for how long?

Affi
Dec 18, 2005

Break bread wit the enemy

X GON GIVE IT TO YA

idhrendur posted:

Based on the existing discussion, I say we take two sets of clothes (and starting walking in the light ones), the ground cover, the sleeping bag, the raft, the stove (and fuel!), the matches, and a selection of food. Maybe other things, but we'll want those at the least.

This is my vote.

IF more fuel then bring the flashlightaswell. Also a knife.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Bring the sacred rock of our fathers

Set out northwest until we reach water or nightfall

Affi
Dec 18, 2005

Break bread wit the enemy

X GON GIVE IT TO YA

Covski posted:

Is there anything we want to add to or remove from our inventory before we go?

Is there anything at all we want to do before setting off?

In which direction are we walking, and for how long?


1. Nope we’re good.

2. Eat? Top off on calories if we need to.

3. Direction I don’t give a crap about because I can’t remember were we are. But have us walk a short time first and then we’ll see if we’re way too loaded up. (If we carry too much and get too tired then we need to decide on what to drop)

Covski
Jun 24, 2007

Bringing the forums together with the greatest thread!
I just noticed I missed packing the magnifying glass, will correct that before we set off!

Black Robe posted:

...I just noticed there's a rock listed on the inventory screen.

Is it a special rock?

Is it the only rock we'll have access to?

Rocks can be found pretty much everywhere! I absolutely won't veto us bringing Goonpa's lucky rock with him, though.

lofi posted:

How does the game handle skills? Are we assumed to know how to do stuff like fish?

We're assumed to be reasonably competent at everything, there's no skill system as such.

As for the question of bait: Any kind of foodstuff can be used as bait for fishing or small game traps - this might be a more palatable use for the (potentially) edible insects we might come across during our journey.

Black Robe
Sep 12, 2017

Generic Magic User


Take the rock.

We should walk a short distance north west as a trial run to see just how ludicrously bad it's going to be. And if it turns out we're going to keel over after two hours we should say 'gently caress it', get on the raft and see if we're fat enough to sink it.

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




Leave the goddamn rock, we have/are enough of a handicap already.

Guzzle the highest-cal stuff we're not taking.

Then head WNW till we hit water.

Dong Quixote
Oct 3, 2015

Fun Shoe
Also voting for a feast before we set out.

Bring the sacred rock, you heretics!

Jaguars!
Jul 31, 2012


This should be about 310° magnetic, about WNW. We can gain a little height and have a drink or a rest and assess whether the river is crossable. Lets walk for 1.5 hours and then stop to check our navigation/ tiredness.


Have a close scale look at the area we think we are in.

Covski
Jun 24, 2007

Bringing the forums together with the greatest thread!


Here you go!



Also for reference, here's our view facing a compass heading of 310 degrees.

idhrendur
Aug 20, 2016

Take the rock. Eat some food before we go (after all, the best way to store water food is in your body).

And that heading looks about right. I agree about 1.5 hours should be good to double-check our position, orientation, and condition.

Adamant
Jan 30, 2013

I vote for eating the candy to boost our optimism stat before setting off.

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




Naw, candy's really calorie-heavy and doesn't go bad - we should keep it for when Goonpa needs a pick-me-up. Like, after ten feet or so.

Covski
Jun 24, 2007

Bringing the forums together with the greatest thread!
A quick idea of how this LP is going to work: For this first run, or at least for the first part of it, I'll be asking you guys for a lot of input, much like a traditional interactive fiction LP. Hopefully this will give you an opportunity to familiarise yourself with how the game, as well as experiencing failure by doing stupid things. (or more likely, by forgetting to do smart things) Later on, I'll be taking over more of the routine stuff and mostly relying on you for bigger decisions. After all, establishing a routine of doing mundane but important stuff is a large part of surviving, which this game simulates admirably well.



For reference, here are all the commands the game uses. I'll be covering most of them in more detail, but it might give you an idea of what the game allows you to do and things to try out.



Goonpa spends a few moments scarfing down on still lukewarm airplane bologna and rehydrating with some of the water which he would otherwise have to leave behind, before picking up his lucky rock and heading off for his trek towards safety.



USE COMPASS THEN LOOK AZIMUTH 310

WALK FOR 1.5 HOURS

32 minutes later...



:stonk:

Okay, let's not panic, let's just quickly check our inventory and...



:cawg: LOOK AT YOU GOONS NOT EXPLICITLY TELLING ME WE SHOULD CARRY THE BACKPACK WITH US :cawg:

...okay, sorry. Let's timewarp back to where we where.



[32 minutes earlier]

I'm very sorry my antics cost us the opportunity to be mauled by a wolf first thing :( I only wanted to bring special attention to the fact that the game specifically requires you to use CARRY BACKPACK, lest you stupidly leave it behind. It even snarkily remarks "I'm so glad you remembered", when you do. Dick move, game. This is not the only stunt of this sort this game will try to pull on us.

With the pack firmly on Goonpa's aged back, we're ready to set off for real this time. You'll note that we're extremely close to our maximum carrying capacity, which means we will tire quite quickly. Hope the lucky rock is worth it, guys.

USE COMPASS THEN LOOK AZIMUTH 310

WALK FOR 1.5 HOURS



30-ish minutes later. Fruit instead of a wolf, how disappointing. Fruit is just one of several types of food we may encounter in the wild, and may or may not be dangerous to our health without proper preparation. Since we're at our maximum weight capacity, I'll assume we prefer the safety of our packaged food over dirty fruit from the ground. Let's keep going.

WALK FOR 1 hour.



After roughly another hour of walking (you will seldom go for exactly as long as specified), we are a bit further from where we started and hopefully a bit closer to our goal. You'll also note that we've veered slightly off course - this happens naturally when walking and is not really an issue when you have a compass/and or easily recognisable landmarks to navigate by.



It's now 9am. We're still in good shape, and our temperature is now "nice." Seems we are properly dressed for moving around in these conditions. We are also no longer shivering.



Looking directly to our left, we can see the valley with the three peaks we saw before.



And to the right, we still have the slope of the same big mountain as before.

Do we want do anything before moving on?

Do we want to adjust our course before moving on? For how long do we want to go before the next stop?

Dong Quixote
Oct 3, 2015

Fun Shoe
Yo Covski, dont you think Goonpa might have wanted to eat that pound of ground fruit? It's literally nature's candy, and also you dont get to be a big boy like Goonpa by passing up opportunity :colbert:

TheLoneStar
Feb 9, 2017

Goonpa needs to prove he's a badass. Now climb that mountain, darn it.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Dong Quixote posted:

Yo Covski, dont you think Goonpa might have wanted to eat that pound of ground fruit? It's literally nature's candy, and also you dont get to be a big boy like Goonpa by passing up opportunity :colbert:

I suggest a standing rule to immediately consume anything we find, to keep Goonpas strength up

Covski
Jun 24, 2007

Bringing the forums together with the greatest thread!

Dong Quixote posted:

Yo Covski, dont you think Goonpa might have wanted to eat that pound of ground fruit? It's literally nature's candy, and also you dont get to be a big boy like Goonpa by passing up opportunity :colbert:

Actually Goonpa doesn't strike me as anyone who has voluntarily eaten fruit ever

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




I'll have you know this candy has 'made with real fruit juice' written right here. :cheeky:

A very optimistic update to the map!


When the game has our status as 'OK' for things like thirst, does that mean 'fine, no problems' or 'about average, could be better'? I also love that there's an 'exercise' command, as if surviving isn't exercise enough anyway. Is it there as a way to warm up without a fire while camped?

I think we should take 15 to chill and rest our poor feet before carrying on same heading as before for another couple of hours. Honestly, I'm impressed we got out of sight of the plane and didn't fall over wheezing and crying.

lofi fucked around with this message at 23:01 on May 21, 2018

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
exercise is indeed there to get yourself warm without a fire. it specifically is noted in the manual as running in place. OK on individual things like hunger and thirst is the ideal, yes. overall condition goes up to Excellent or Fantastic, though.

Fuuka Ayase
Apr 25, 2017

Literally Hitler

RBA Starblade posted:

I suggest a standing rule to immediately consume anything we find, to keep Goonpas strength up

Hm, I wonder what these mushrooms are? Oh I'm sure it's fine.

One bad trip later...

idhrendur
Aug 20, 2016

Looks like we're wearing the right clothes for our walk right now. I agree with resting and then continuing in the same direction.

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




Don't forget to remove our boots while resting (and put them back on before heading out :cheeky:). How far (or how long) do we want to walk today? Seems it'd be really easy to push Goonpa too far, and break him in ways that only show up tomorrow.

e:

Are all cannibals called Dan?

lofi fucked around with this message at 16:18 on May 22, 2018

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

lofi posted:

Don't forget to remove our boots while resting (and put them back on before heading out :cheeky:). How far (or how long) do we want to walk today? Seems it'd be really easy to push Goonpa too far, and break him in ways that only show up tomorrow.

this is, fwiw, the #1 thing the game DOES NOT model. the 20th mile problem has not been tackled in any game ever.

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




Pushing yourself too hard, or giving your feet breaks?

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
i'm talking about physiological small damage from overexertion. pushing yourself too hard will lead to exhaustion and increased sweating/etc and that is modeled, but it will not put you at risk for the sorts of soft tissue injuries in the feet, knees, and hips that engender the issues that people refer to when they talk about the 20th mile problem

to be clear about what i'm talking about for folks that might not be familiar: most people can walk a mile without any issue. a lot of people can walk 5. but it's pretty easy to injure yourself walking 20 miles, even if you do so over the course of a few days. the repetitive motions and impact put stress on the small pieces of your body - the ligaments, the tendons, the tissues that support and restrain your big muscles as they flex. even many people that are 'in shape' don't bother to strengthen these pieces. when they are suddenly given heavy demands, such as when you are walking a lot, they can scar over, become stiff, or have tiny amounts of internal bleeding along these stress zones, which in turn leads to sharp, stabbing pains when you put weight on a limb or constant stiffness and aches as a joint moves.

this can effectively cripple someone, as in, make them unable to walk. obviously, a huge problem if you're in a wilderness survival situation and no help is otherwise coming. the game will not model all of this.

giving your feet breaks as such will not really help that much with the 20th mile problem since those small tissues that get injured are meat like everything else and must go through the entire swelling/healing/rebuilding process as your big, smooth muscles. the way you actually address it is to limit yourself to a specific amount of activity a day. a 15 minute or even 1 hour break every couple of hours will not alleviate the 20th mile problem - limiting yourself to 4-5 hours of walking a day until your body can handle 8-10 and eventually 12 or more is what will do the job.

Coolguye fucked around with this message at 17:17 on May 22, 2018

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




Oh, I didn't know that, thankyou! I was just worried about blisters and general soreness.

Covski
Jun 24, 2007

Bringing the forums together with the greatest thread!
The general consensus seems to be to take a quick break and keep going in the same direction, so let's do that.



REST 0.25 HOURS
WALK FOR 3 HOURS



We can now clearly see the river sneaking around the foot of Steep Mountain as well as what looks like a river running down the mountain we're walking, off in the distance straight ahead of us.



Looking around, we have a good view of Steep Mountain River Valley (we really need to start thinking of better names for landmarks) to our left (220 degrees magnetic from our position).



To our right (40 degrees on the compass), the same old boring mountain we've had to our right since we've started walking.



We can also use the LOOK SUN command, to place the sun in the centre of our view. Staring directly into the sun is not recommended in a survival situation (or at all), but around noon like we are now it gives a general indication of which way is south. Comparing with the reading of our compass, we can see that south is in fact in that general direction, albeit a bit further to the right in the image.



By now, we're Goonpa's getting to be a bit peckish, but more pressingly quite thirsty. Good thing it's roughly lunch time!

What, and how much do we want to eat for lunch? This area has enough sticks and other combustibles, but do we want to spend energy and precious daylight making a fire to cook right now? We could also cook on the stove, but we only have enough fuel for 7 uses.

We should also consider our water intake: Optimally, we want to drink roughly 64oz of water daily, which is exactly how much our canteen holds. We can make do with less in a pinch, but getting a lot of water it important in a situation such as this - and in life in general. We can also rehydrate with help of the water content in our food - many of the food alternatives in the game feature a trade-off between weight and water content: For example, apples may weigh a whole lot compared to the energy they contain, but they are also a way of carrying with you more water than the very limited amount our canteen holds. One other good outdoorsman fact that is often overlooked: You need to consume as much, if not more, water in very cold temperatures as you do in very hot temperatures!

So, help Goonpa out with his lunch plans, and discuss a direction and duration for the next leg of the trek. We don't know what time the sun sets here, and we probably don't want to walk around too much in the dark.

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Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
yeah, the further location is confirmed now. you can see the river curling around Steep Mountain in this update's screenshots, which is one of the markers we were looking for to confirm where we are. it's gonna be a long, long hike to that ranger station, ya'll.

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