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ninjewtsu posted:split-stacking Simultaneous order resolution wouldn’t really work in a game with as much movement as Age of Wonders. You’d have to come up with a system other than “attack enemy stack directly” to avoid the 3v4 situation, and I can’t think of anything that avoids the split stacking. Now if there was an intuitive way to pick a hex between two units as being the “battlefield” between two units and then only initiated the battle after everyone had ended their turn, that might solve the issue of unfair 3v4s (you should’ve brought more units!)
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May 22, 2018 04:27
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 again, EL does it. it has a bit less movement than AoW3 but i don't see why a similar system for deciding who gets brought into a fight wouldn't work.EDIT: oh, did you mean the battle system? yeah no way would i want EL's battle system, just how it determines who goes into the fight
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May 22, 2018 04:45
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ninjewtsu posted:hey gerblyn, are you able to answer any questions/elaborate at all on the approach triumph is taking to multiplayer this time around? would you say the way that AoW3's multiplayer ended up developing has influenced planetfall's design at all? Well, we're still in pre-alpha, hammering out the core mechanics for economy and things like that. The kinds of multiplayer issues you describe are definitely on my radar, but what we're actually going to do about them isn't something I can comment on yet since they're not our current focus. We most likely will keep the AHR, though. As for the research thing, we're planning on Multiracing to be a possibility, so if you capture the city of another race you'll be able to access that races units and a limited number of its techs. As for the class/tech choice, we're likely going to limit the player to just one of those, since otherwise there'll be too many plates in the air for us to balance. ninjewtsu posted:
Biggest issue with the EL system, or any system where you draw in multiple armies, is where those armies would be deployed onto the battle map. EL doesn't have a seprate battle map, so that's no issue for them, while in games like Total War: XXX, they have very large maps that are traversed in real time, so they're much more flexible in what they can do there.
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May 22, 2018 08:22
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Fair enough I suppose. I had seen elsewhere that the idea of a deployment phase is considered fairly out of the question by the dev team, which I guess does make predicting where your army chunks will wind up in relation to each other pretty difficult. I can't help but feel that a quick "click on which hex-side you want stack a to pop out of" would be a pretty good solution though I'm glad to hear that you're at least considering dealing with the mp issues, even mild improvements in that area would be greatly appreciated. Wrt the race/tech distinctions, if I understand the system right, conquering a city and getting access to a new race in planetfall is roughly analogous to conquering a city and getting a new class in aow3. That's a pretty radical situation! Is effectively combining units from different races meant to be a core game play element? (as opposed to the "situationally might be fairly useful" deal that finding a new race in aow3 was) or is there some distinction made between the race you start as and races you acquire later? The idea of being able to produce, say, both crusaders and cannons as the same player in aow3 is a little nuts!
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May 22, 2018 08:43
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I’d never thought about it like that, but yes it is kind of like getting a second class in AoW3! Each race has 30 or so techs that you can research, if you get another race later on then you’ll probably only have a fifth of their techs available to you, so you’re starting race is still very important.
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May 22, 2018 09:41
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Depending on how the system works, it might be a significant opportunity cost to research a second race's techs. Perhaps good enough to get a unit that fills a hole in your army roster, inviting strategic decision making in how to use a second race.
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May 22, 2018 10:03
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I loved the campaign in AoW1 and it was decent in Shadow Magic too. It's a shame it was meh in AoW3, I hope planetfall has one that's as good as the first game! It felt like you had loads of choice and really brought the world to life.
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May 22, 2018 13:01
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Do we have a list of the races/technologies somewhere yet? I don’t care if they’re placeholder names Inject this stuff straight into my veins, AoW3 is one of my favorite strategy games of all time
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May 22, 2018 13:29
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Started a random map to try out the necromancer (as elves). Cleaned out a mana node adjacent to my starting territory, got a Crazed Chicken. This game's going places.
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May 23, 2018 03:51
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You should try playing a Halfling Dreadnaught. They get a unique version of golems, you see. They get Halfling Party Robots with chef aprons who can dispense dinner to hungry halflings. And shoot fireworks. The lore entry for them is a delight 
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May 23, 2018 04:39
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Captain Oblivious posted:You should try playing a Halfling Dreadnaught. My first random map is exactly that. I, uh, have about half a dozen random map games as a variety of races and classes all on turn three or four as I keep experimenting.
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May 23, 2018 04:55
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The race/class system is a lot of fun and there's a lot of cool combos so I don't blame you
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May 23, 2018 06:12
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Some gameplay screenshots from a russian site, link here : http://www.goha.ru/previews/age-of-wonders-planetfall-dYLon7 Commander screen showing weapons and mod slots  Meeting a Paragon NPC faction  Combat
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May 23, 2018 15:41
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Certainly familiar in some ways. That's reassuring.
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May 23, 2018 16:16
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Man I already want to get my hands on it. I loved playing AoW3 and I can see heavy traces of it
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May 23, 2018 17:36
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Since we're moving on to a different franchise, was there ever a story behind the Archons all being undead in AoW3?
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May 23, 2018 20:17
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I came up with this headcanon that dead & buried archons were so dedicated to their cause of protecting mankind that they rose from their graves and became everything they hated. Doesn’t explain the Wights though 
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May 24, 2018 01:01
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I wonder how that Russian site got those pictures first?
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May 24, 2018 13:47
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Taear posted:I wonder how that Russian site got those pictures first? Looks like they might have been at PDXcon and sneakily took some photos behind closed doors. I know someone on Youtube (Marbozir) mentioned that he saw the game while he was there.
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May 24, 2018 14:08
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Some more info on the game from RockPaperShotgunquote:“We’ve got things like cyber-zombies, mutated plants that can talk to you, space jellyfish that have escaped from a science centre. quote:Every unit is essentially a simple template that you can customise with weapons, special ammo, jetpacks and even vehicles. Eventually, you’ll be able to cram your commander inside a mech or a tank, if you fancy it. Mods can give your unit a whole range of abilities at the higher tiers, so it affects a lot more than just the amount of damage you can dole out. quote:One thing I didn’t see a lot of was missed shots. The frustration of missing a shot, especially one that should have been a sure thing, might be a tactics mainstay, but Triumph wants to reduce how often that happens. The team still wants to create those moments where it just feels like luck isn’t on your side, because it makes the times when you make an unlikely shot all the more satisfying, but it doesn’t want players to feel like they’ve been cheated. Grazing is the solution.
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May 25, 2018 15:41
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A decent article, I especially enjoy the bits about the "smaller" civs you can come along and do stuff with.
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May 25, 2018 20:27
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I don't have archives so I guess I could post these here, sorry for the bother: After 20 hours in vanilla AoW3 and it just not clicking with me, I finally decided to try it again and, yeah, I finally get AoW3. Basically it came down to learning these lessons: - Kill off those monster lairs ASAP. - Produce Merchandise, etc; are not affected by the cities' total production. - Don't bother going for a true balanced army composition; 6 slots is not enough for that. - Take an artillery piece. I've been playing Dreadnought since that was the class I've wanted to get into all along, and Humans and Dwarves have always been my AoW staples. In connection with point 3, I've learned to transition from 2 Dwarven Axeman/2 Crossbow/1 Trebuchet to 4 Musketeer/ 1 Trebuchet, with my Dreadnought leader/heroes packing Rapid Reload and the heal skill for party map regen. This eventually transitions into 4 Musketeer/1 Cannon (also goddamn these Cannons are sick, I wrongly assumed that they have to be literally in a straight line with the target to do penetrating shots), then 2 Musketeer/2 Juggernaut/1 Engineer. This works well with Dwarves because they're beefy as all hell, though I feel like not having any melee units at all is a bit risky. Maybe I could drop 1 Juggernaut for a Firstborn or Golem, but whatever. For Humans, I've taken a liking to Knights thanks to their Armored status and their ability to pack pistols. I know, however, that Knights are awesome mainly because they have Tier 3 stats on a cavalry unit with Shield and Armored; in contrast, Dwarven Boar Riders don't have shields and are only Tier 2. My questions: 1. If you can afford it, is going pure Knight + artillery a better choice than 2 Knight/2 Musketeer/arty? 2. Could Boar Riders do the same for Dwarves in terms of a full stack, or could they even be better off than the pure footslogger guns composition by doing a mixed composition of 2 Boar Riders/2 Musketeers/arty?
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May 26, 2018 07:42
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Somehow I only just realised, despite preordering Age of Wonders 3, that I can enable random underworlds in the advanced map gen options. 
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May 26, 2018 07:56
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toasterwarrior posted:Humans and Dwarves [...]This eventually transitions into 4 Musketeer/1 Cannon orc musketeers are the goat. don't bother reloading, just fire once good shot and then beat 'em with your rifle butt
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May 26, 2018 12:02
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toasterwarrior posted:I don't have archives so I guess I could post these here, sorry for the bother: what up dreadnought bud  knights are pretty great! they're arguably the best racial t3, and integrate easily into dreadnought strategies. i'd say going 3 knight + 2 cannon + 1 hero (or 2 knights + 3 cannons + 1 hero) is a pretty strong stack, if you can build cannons you'll be better off not building muskets anymore generally (obviously if you have a secondary city that can 1turn muskets, and a bunch of spare gold, sure keep doing that why not). as for boar riders: eh, i guess? but if you're comparing it to knight stacks, it'd make more sense to compare going for firstborn rather than boar riders. sure, you lose out on pistols and movement, but in terms of pure stats firstborn are some of the beefiest t3s around, and that's a fine tradeoff for a dread to make. your stacks are still only moving at the speed of cannons on the map, and your battlefield tactics are "bombard enemy with cannons until they stop moving, use meatshields to keep their units off the cannons," so the movement isn't a huge loss. plus, "i don't have to waste time researching pistols" is some value all on its own boar riders in general are one of the less impressive mounted units tbh. but if that movement/pistols is important to you, it's certainly something you could make work in single player without much issues, so follow your heart! of course, the other question to ask for boar riders is "why aren't you using golems instead," the dreadnought's out of the box class unit meant to fill that same role. tradeoffs there are a little different: golems are probably only behind crusaders in terms of being the tankiest t2s around, and get really powerful once you stat piling on the medals (gold golems in guard mode can go toe to toe with t4s, defense-wise). as a t2, they're also quite a bit cheaper than knights/firstborn (though, their stats are obviously a bit lower for the lower pricepoint as well). but, logistically, they're a huge pain, since they need machine specific healing (which is in short supply), and also get kinda rough in certain matchups (fighting an elf sorcerer? good luck! going up against a warlord with hordes of berserkers? i've been on the bad end of that too many times  )a thing in AoW3 compared to other strategy games like, i dunno, starcraft? is that units very much become obsolete as the game goes on. there's some exceptions, but if you're looking for general advice for the info in your post, i guess i'd ask why you're going for 2 musket/2 juggernaught compositions? if you have access to juggs, are you sure a t3 wouldn't fit in better than muskets would? the big advantage that muskets have is that they have a lot of single-shot damage, which lets them "hit above their weight class" because of the way damage calculations work (also they're surprisingly tanky for an archer-class unit). but, you still need to fire at fairly close range to get that out of them, and then they spend every other turn reloading, so once you're fighting t3s and t4s yourself a unit that can hit like a t3 every once in a while isn't the most efficient use of money. muskets are more of a "dominate other t2s" kind of unit than an endgame unit. ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 13:15 on May 26, 2018 |
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May 26, 2018 13:05
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pro tip for anyone getting into aow3, and especially anyone playing dreadnought: there is no production overflow. if you are building a unit that costs 100 gold (and therefore costs 100 production), and your city has 99 production, that unit will take 2 turns to make. if you queue up 6 of that unit, it'll take 12 turns before your queue is complete. so before deciding to cast mana fuel core/build a siege workshop, examine your city's current production, what you're planning to build with it, and ask yourself "will this actually help at all? or will i spend resources to change nothing?"
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May 26, 2018 13:18
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Yeah, when I brought up the balanced army thing, it was more of "see what strengths your class/race combo has and push them to the limit", since you clearly won't have enough space to have infantry, cavalry, archers, arty, and support all in one stack. I always figured that Musketeers would have a role even in T4 times because the innate Dwarf defense + Armored + Dreadnought bonuses to Armored + final Dwarf race governance bonus would make them exceptionally tough while still wrecking dudes and potentially halving their action points from 2 spaces away, compared to Golems and Firstborn that would have to spend all their movement to get into damage range for maybe only one or two attacks, only get one shot at an engaged target if they decide to break away and flank/attack other ranged units. It's why I really like Knights; their mobility lets you gently caress with the enemy and pistols let them chip away at targets they can't run down with a charge or are too dangerous to facetank. Having Knights/maybe Boar Riders work in conjunction with a Muskeeter center while the artillery pulls targets was the nearest I could think up for combined arms, until I reflected on how the game works a bit more and wondered if just going all in on a unit type (ie. all Knights) plus support (Cannon plus reloading Engineer, plus Priest and minus Knight if no Hero for passive healing) was the better way. ninjewtsu posted:pro tip for anyone getting into aow3, and especially anyone playing dreadnought: Oh man, is this ever true. You save so much gold just by recognizing that, yeah, this town won't have to pump out units at all so don't bother with anything but mana/research/domain buildings.
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May 26, 2018 14:15
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yeah generally an aow3 army comp is going to have 1-3 different units in it. usually i tend to find one specific unit i want to focus on, then build my gameplan around playing up that unit's strengths/making them work as much as possible. frequently this takes the shape of something like "4 knights, a hero, and a priest for healing/elemental damage." what's really cool about aow3 is that you can build a competent gameplan around pretty much any unit in the game, though obviously some work better than others. for example: going all in on engineers is a lot of fun! if you take explorer and pick goblins as your race, you get cavalry-speed irregulars with a tri-channel aoe blunderbuss that hits like a loving truck on a flank attack. not very useful once your opponent is fielding t3s though, unfortunately, so you better mop up quick ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 14:54 on May 26, 2018 |
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May 26, 2018 14:51
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Its why my favorite class is Druid so you can play spider/snake pokemon with the random summons/charm ability. Plus you get to pick up a bunch of units that show up nowhere else and your armies are super varied all game by grabbing Polar Bears, Mammoths etc.
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May 26, 2018 15:03
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Oh god, this Unifier victory isn't what it seems. Lessons learned! At least I've learned that with enough bonuses active, Human Archers are superior city defenders to Musketeers since you can get them out at gold rank, which gives them an additional damage channel on their shots, as well as having better range and shooting thrice every turn.
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May 26, 2018 22:38
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they also cost less upkeep! important question though: are you parking a full stack of archers on every city? if so: don't do that.
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May 27, 2018 03:29
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I only am right now because I'm going for the Unifier victory and trying out all these neat toys. I could go for a world conquest easily with all these fully-upgraded Knights that come out as Veterans, but first I want to see just what Juggernauts and whatnot can do in a city defense.
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May 27, 2018 08:38
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Google Docs to the Age of Wonders 3 Madmac Guide. ... 167 pages.  Uh. Feel free to post here if it needs smoothing over. I don't have the energy to do a full pass over it.  Goodness madmac, put all together like that really hammers home how much you wrote. E: I just want to write this in here: Naga dwelling while lacking a dedicated guide is rather good and worth using. Also the guide contains  never before seen content! ... in that I wrote a dragons peak guide and never posted it. E2: Edited in a very important picture at the end.
Thyrork fucked around with this message at 11:52 on May 27, 2018 |
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May 27, 2018 11:34
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Sounds like they're doing away with needing garrisoned defensive troops in this one? A good idea.
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May 27, 2018 15:46
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How did I miss this  Subbed and excited Show me where to insert  and I will
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May 27, 2018 17:51
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drat it. I love AoW 2: Shadow Magic. I bought AoW 3 but got turned off of it early when it seemed like there was one spell that really needed to be nerfed. Now this is reminding me that I bought AoW 3. But there are so many other games I want to play.
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May 27, 2018 17:55
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AoW3 had some of the absolute best expansion and post release patch support of any game in the last five or ten years so, yeah, give it another shot
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May 27, 2018 18:03
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Speaking of playing AOW3, I've got a discord set up but I don't want to rob the thread of its reason to exist.  We could get some vs AI (PBEM or otherwise) set up for people who are returning after a break? E: Although in my case I have a few mods I'm stubbornly in love with. Actual Scythe Mod Corrupt the Source - Extensions Cosmic Happenings Expanded Improved Rod of Lighting Charge Less T4 Unit Spam (For AI) Racial Heritage Mod Age of Wardrobe Extended Thyrork fucked around with this message at 18:41 on May 27, 2018 |
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May 27, 2018 18:35
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imo put up the Discord first page first line and let the AoW3 goon community hang out now. Planetfall bros can join later, but there's a significant number of goonfans from the old thread that I'm sure are still around and would be happy to idle. Might take a few weeks to fill up but no rush, we've got a year to wait 
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May 27, 2018 18:46
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A brief question re: AoW3: if you can't get both the Flowstone Citadel and the Enchanted Armory in one city, which is preferable for Dreadnought machines? The 10HP or the 2 defense and 1 resistance? EDIT: Also, it seems to me, and this does sound somewhat crazy, but considering that they're short-ranged units that are surprisingly resilient and meant for close combat, is the Musketeer's "replacement" the Flame Tank? toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 20:16 on May 27, 2018 |
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May 27, 2018 19:53
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