|
Fabricated posted:I think basically everything up to about halfway into the Infinite Fortress arc was really good 8-9/10 stuff. The one thing from an action writing perspective I think I respect Gotogue for is not being afraid to really gently caress the characters up- yeah they somehow recover mostly from stuff that'd leave you permanently injured but stuff like Tanjirou getting hooked through the loving jaw with a sickle is pretty visceral and a lot of the battle injuries avoided being entirely generic non-fatal slashes and the like. Most of the battles in the series felt appropriately desperate- where you see all these people using breathing techniques to do superhuman moves basically just barely clawing out victories against demons. I think I'd specifically put the manga up until the Muzan fight as you did, generally 8-9/10 stuff. There are things about the Muzan fight I don't like (blade colors and stuff) but at the same time I thought it did a well enough job of depicting an absolutely loving desperate struggle to run out the clock against an absolute monster, and it keeps to the story themes consistently enough that it honestly didn't really crater the manga or anything for me - I'd ultimately probably give the segment a 6 or 7? Ultimately I'll probably rank the manga as a whole an 8 out of 10 regardless of it's issues - Gotogue did a lot of stuff throughout it that left a lasting impression and that I'll remember very fondly for a long time which is more than I can say for several of the manga's non-One Piece contemporaries.
|
#
?
May 17, 2020 23:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 21:02 |
|
|
The medical support mooks were literally crashing loving cars into Muzan to try and stall him at the end. It actually sort of feels like it's a rarity for a main cast of characters in a battle series to win simply by gassing the main badguy out- typically there's always some big "Friendship Power" attack that annihilates the badguy in the end so you can get that satisfaction that your MC became stronger than the big bad. The ending here was everyone just barely, JUST BARELY stalling the big bad out so he gets destroyed by the sun- and nearly everyone dies doing it. And the ultimate victory is Tanjirou rejecting Muzan's will. I thought it was pretty great thematically even if the final minibosses were burnt up too easily, the rest of the cast weren't developed enough, and it feels like we missed a few arcs before it.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2020 23:20
|
|
|
i was talking with someone about the series and he brought up a good point. it definitely shows that this is gotogue's debut work. there's a bunch of excellent ideas throughout, and a rather original and distinct flavor, but the execution doesn't always hang together. i'd definitely be interested in reading their next work, assuming they continue in the business
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2020 23:34
|
|
|
GhostofJohnMuir posted:i was talking with someone about the series and he brought up a good point. it definitely shows that this is gotogue's debut work. there's a bunch of excellent ideas throughout, and a rather original and distinct flavor, but the execution doesn't always hang together. i'd definitely be interested in reading their next work, assuming they continue in the business I've been thinking something similar for a while; there's a lot of good here, but also the inexperience plus presumed executive and/or real life pressure really show in some places, particularly towards the end and when looking at the series as a whole. Certain characters or concepts being underutilized or dropped, the pacing in the back half, all that stuff people usually bring up. Some very good parts too (even some of the ones I've seen others dislike; I disagree with almost every complaint about Muzan as a character for example, him being a petty, short-sighted, self-sabotaging rear end in a top hat who got no redemption is great), though at times more conceptually due to the aforementioned execution issues. I really hope she's able to make more manga in the future too; hopefully everything works out for her, whatever's going on in her life. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 00:21 on May 18, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 00:16
|
|
|
the last arc was tamayo planning around muzan's personality. the way everything played out made sense, even if it wasn't ideal narratively.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 02:13
|
|
|
I liked the series a lot overall, but I feel there should have been one more Arc between Hantengu and the Infinity Fortress. For fun this is what I would have done. I would have made the Swordsmith Village Hantengu only he was powerful enough that he could have challenged pretty much everyone there by himself anyway, Tokito could join Mitsuri in battling him. Gyokko I would have saved for the Infinity Fortress, as this would have filled in the missing gap in the Upper Moons. Were Upper 6 and Upper 4 were replaced, but there was no Upper 5 for some reason. The Arc before Infinity Fortress I think should have been Doma's Cult, and we could have made this a more proper Kanao focus arc, maybe have Oguro's details be here as well. Maybe have Kaigaku as backup to Doma and make him a bigger deal and fight then a guy that just gets effortlessly killed by Zenitsu.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 06:48
|
|
|
gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i don't think literally everyone needed to reincarnate in the same town. it really detracts from the message of mortality being part of human life when the very next chapter is 'lol jk you'll live again eventually, nbd'.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 08:49
|
|
|
Relin posted:what the heck this series that deals withe the karmic consequences through heaven and hell has reincarnation??? Buddhism has hell equivalents, yes.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 15:16
|
|
|
It's generally not eternal damnation and more they need to work off some of their debts before they can reincarnate I think though? So I guess the demons will probably be reincarnating much later than the humans.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 15:32
|
|
|
A Sometimes Food posted:It's generally not eternal damnation and more they need to work off some of their debts before they can reincarnate I think though? Buddhist hell has waiting times on the order of billions of years.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 15:57
|
|
|
Personally I would put my cut off at Kokushibou. Zenitsu Alter was a bit anemic but really no worse than Hantengu and uh, other guy in Smith village, and Douma absolutely ruled, but Kokushibou was kind of a letdown and where you really started to feel the wrap up rush. As for the Muzan fight, it's atrocious. It IS super cool that literally every character is pouring out of the woodworks to just dump whatever they've got on him, that part I like. BUT it's just way too long and characters are getting their last minute back stories shoved in before they are killed, and it's right after Kokushibou which was a similar Everybody Pile On deal, and you've got sudden power-ups both from him and the crew, AND It's capping off an arc that has already gone on longer than any of the others that is just nonstop fights with no breather, AND OF COURSE we get that last second demon Tanjirou/human Nezuko business that feels like it was supposed to be an entire arc or even outright act 2 of a longer series. It drags a series that I was really digging down from like an 8 to a 5, it SUCKS.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 15:59
|
|
|
Lurking Haro posted:Buddhist hell has waiting times on the order of billions of years. Well I guess I was technically right but ooof Inosuke's mum don't deserve that.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 16:13
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:I liked the series a lot overall, but I feel there should have been one more Arc between Hantengu and the Infinity Fortress. Yeah something like that would've been dope as hell. I'd have had the snake woman from Tokito's backstory turn up as well there with the cult to give him some better flesh out. Rody One Half posted:Personally I would put my cut off at Kokushibou. Zenitsu Alter was a bit anemic but really no worse than Hantengu and uh, other guy in Smith village, and Douma absolutely ruled, but Kokushibou was kind of a letdown and where you really started to feel the wrap up rush. The power ups like the mark, red blades, see through world, and what not just made everything so much WORSE to me since it really didn't mean much if anything other than simplified justification to kill everyone off and actually made their sacrifices feel kind of hollow to me. Like, the power ups are hyped as these big game changers and barely do anything to really change their fights in ways that feel significant if at all. It made the character deaths feel like they were done just because dramatic payoff demands they happen and the mark killing them off making it easier to swallow(that and for them to give it their all).
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 18:06
|
|
|
A Sometimes Food posted:Well I guess I was technically right but ooof Inosuke's mum don't deserve that. What? Inosuke's mom was an innocent victim,. she's not in hell. Am I going crazy or did I miss a panel?
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 18:19
|
|
|
I’d give it a 6.5 after it was all said and done, I don’t know how I would feel if I didn’t watch the anime first beforehand though
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 19:10
|
|
|
Professorjuggalo posted:I’d give it a 6.5 after it was all said and done, I don’t know how I would feel if I didn’t watch the anime first beforehand though I remember picking it up when it was new and reading it til just before Spider Mountain and sort of just dropping out of touch and only picked it again since I had heard about the anime. Overall I give it 6.5 to 7.5 depending on my mood at times depending on several variables(cast, fights, world building, lore, character building).
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 19:45
|
|
|
I think it’s a solid 5/10. The story and themes are kind of generic shonen and the characters aren’t terribly interesting. That being said it actually treats its love interest character much better than most shonen and I actually like her backstory. Shame it just kind of resolved immediately
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 20:14
|
|
|
Wow, low scores all around. Once again, I'm easy to please. I'd give it an 8.5/10 overall. Call it cloying, but Tanjirou being so sympathetic to his enemies and generally such a good person was touching to me. The final battle had pacing issues, but the fact it was so terribly grueling and required literally everyone's help, including smashing cars into Muzan felt really cathartic. Muzan himself being an utter coward and piece of crap and only ever treated as such was good. And...well, Inosuke is best boy.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 22:56
|
|
|
tanjirou was absolutely one of the good parts. few shounen protagonists actually stick the landing on being Very Good People all the way through like he does. he didn't have to witness someone kicking someone's dog to get the motivation to stand up for them
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 23:03
|
|
|
That seems like pretty standard for a shonen. I can think of only really a one that doesn’t fit that mold. Goku. Hell even his clones didn’t do that. Also 5/10 may seem low but it’s definitely not a terrible score it’s middling. I don’t even hold the rushed ending against the manga. My favorite manga also has a rushed ending it happens
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2020 23:06
|
|
|
Jotaro Kenshiro Ichigo Gon Yugi/Pharaoh I'm sure there are others. While there are definitely examples of shonen protagonists showing mercy/kindness/empathy to their enemies, I don't think many do to the extent that Tanjirou does. The guy's primary characteristic isn't "energetic" or "passionate" or even "heroic" like a lot of other shonen. It's "kind." Dunno, felt refreshing to me, though there are a lot of very good shonen boys atm with Deku being a close comparison.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2020 00:59
|
|
|
He's just a good, smiley boy who wants to take baths and have dinners with his friends, I love him so much
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2020 01:02
|
|
|
Biggest reason Tanjiro worked is that his kindness was not treated as absolution and the manga was extremely and consistently clear about it
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2020 01:04
|
|
|
Yeah, he knew demons had to be slain in order to protect humans, but was also able to empathize with the fact that a lot of them were dealt a really lovely hand.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2020 01:29
|
|
|
I give it a 7.5 out of ten myself. I guess I don't judge it for its flaws as harshly? I certainly think it was better than average.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2020 02:36
|
|
|
Eh my avg manga series is 7 so just slightly below avg but Tanji and his anime VA did sell the idea that yeah, demons used to be people and they deserved better lives but so it goes.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2020 12:28
|
|
|
Sure hope that scale goes up to 14 or it doesn't make any sense. 
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2020 14:50
|
|
|
Yeah, VA's like Natsuki Hanae (Tanjirou), Saori Hayami (Shinobu) and Yoshitsugu Matsuoka (Inosuke) all did a tremendous job of amplifying already likeable characters with their stellar performances. On the dub side, I liked Erica Harlacher as Shinobu, Kyle McCarley as Yushiro and Bryce Papenbrook as Inosuke. JYB as Tomioka feels like a gag-casting, for some reason.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2020 15:53
|
|
|
Inflammatory posted:muzan having a family he genuinely loved would undermine the themes of the manga for the sake of some wishy-washy attempt at moral ambiguity, he has never been painted as anything other than a deranged manchild who is incapable of caring about anyone but himself. it is the source of every problem in his life and his ultimate undoing. he is an object of pity to be contrasted with tanjirou and nezuko, who by this point have both been turned into demons themselves, but were able to overcome their transformations and find redemption through the bonds of love they had formed.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2020 16:09
|
|
|
paragon1 posted:Sure hope that scale goes up to 14 or it doesn't make any sense. They're apparently going by the video game ratings scale, where if you're below a 7 you've hosed up and it's actually code for "it's baaaaaaad".
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2020 16:36
|
|
|
Oh Snapple! posted:Biggest reason Tanjiro worked is that his kindness was not treated as absolution and the manga was extremely and consistently clear about it Eh he still mostly beat them into fixing their issues. Though with the whole demon cure kind of makes the core out to be kind of dicks as they could have saved them as it turned out. I kind of wish the whole the demon is actually sympathetic card was played less as a fact. Should have made it more interesting if only some had a tragic backstory that needed fixing. As it stands only Muzak himself did that. Which is weird considering how cold and uncaring he was. It was like he was drawn to tragic backstories
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2020 16:38
|
|
|
He was explicitly drawn to vulnerable people he could take advantage of lol
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2020 17:07
|
|
|
muzan didn't go through a rigorous screening process or anything, but the ones he turned instead of killing were the people who were somehow driven. and really, that's most of what determined success as a demon. only like half of the upper moons were warriors of any kind, and it's unclear how proficient the #1 and 6 were as humans. so, their quality as demons wasn't based on their original strength.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2020 17:27
|
|
|
Eh, it wasn't always like that. Of the initial demon antagonists, only the hand demon and Kyogai were truly sympathetic. Rui appears sympathetic but he's basically like a Mini-Doma (also gently caress spiders). Of the Demon Moons, the most sympathetic were Akaza, who had a backstory so tragic it'd been neat if we had gotten a director of oldie samurai films working on it because GOD. drat.. And then sorta Kokushibou.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2020 20:49
|
|
|
Oh Snapple! posted:He was explicitly drawn to vulnerable people he could take advantage of lol But that’s the thing he doesn’t need to do that. Becoming a demon isn’t presented as something you opt into and Muzan controlled people through fear and they didn’t even have their memories. It feels like a cheap reasoning for them to have tragic backstories which is was really. Also kind of made every demon encounter a bit formulaic. You could set your watch to how a demon encounter was going to go
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2020 22:07
|
|
|
I am so glad I took a break from this before the meat of this last arc. If I was waiting for chapters every week I'd probably have been super annoyed.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2020 00:15
|
|
|
paragon1 posted:What? Inosuke's mom was an innocent victim,. she's not in hell. Am I going crazy or did I miss a panel? She went to hell with his dad during Inosuke's post Muzan not quite dying dream didn't she? Cause she blamed herself for what happened to Inosuke.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2020 09:20
|
|
|
The cosmology of Modern Japanese Literature is dire.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2020 11:11
|
|
|
A Sometimes Food posted:She went to hell with his dad during Inosuke's post Muzan not quite dying dream didn't she? Cause she blamed herself for what happened to Inosuke. Do you have a chapter number? I don't remember that at all. 
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2020 20:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 21:02 |
|
|
Wark Say posted:Eh, it wasn't always like that. Of the initial demon antagonists, only the hand demon and Kyogai were truly sympathetic. Rui appears sympathetic but he's basically like a Mini-Doma (also gently caress spiders). Of the Demon Moons, the most sympathetic were Akaza, who had a backstory so tragic it'd been neat if we had gotten a director of oldie samurai films working on it because GOD. drat.. And then sorta Kokushibou. I would say the Upper Six siblings were more sympathetic than Kokushibou.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2020 00:44
|
|