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  • Locked thread
b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


Barring some strange Ecco role madness, I donít think AS is scum. And I think she needs to die today.

Sodaís pgo claim, if it is real, actually benefits the scum way more than town. If we assume the claim is legit, the scum arenít going to push to get soda lynched because she isnít a threat. They obviously wont target her tonight, but itís possible a town player may target her and wind up dead.

##vote Atomic Soda

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Atomic Soda
Jun 8, 2005

drink this baby

CCKeane posted:

To make sure we're all on the same page here, you are claiming that you are a death Miller pgo, that you a joking with Mona and bk, Mona agrees with your claim, and that your alignment is explicitly town, despite flipping differently, and that you'd cop as town, despite being a phone, and that your role play explictly gives this detail about the mechanics of another role (town result vs. Not town for an investigative role)

Did I miss anything?

i assume phone is pgo but this is p much correct. given i am town, i only assume town will investigate as town. the alignment i will flip as is wild aligned.

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


I will flip as something other than town and I am town aligned. This makes 100% sense to me I just think soda didn't fully understand what being a Miller means


I really don't wanna kill her now and I think AAs vote and TMs votes are p lovely

Also Keane is coming off as extremely defensive like he has something to prove which makes me think soda may be right about her scum call on Keane.

Right now I would vote AA, TM, or Keane

Imma start with Keane and see what happens

##unvote
##vote cckeane

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!


Fallen Rib

Just to clarify on a PGO - They kill anyone that visits them regardless if they are friendly or not correct?

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


SalTheBard posted:

Just to clarify on a PGO - They kill anyone that visits them regardless if they are friendly or not correct?

Yeah

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


Moatillata posted:

I will flip as something other than town and I am town aligned. This makes 100% sense to me I just think soda didn't fully understand what being a Miller means


I really don't wanna kill her now and I think AAs vote and TMs votes are p lovely

Also Keane is coming off as extremely defensive like he has something to prove which makes me think soda may be right about her scum call on Keane.

Right now I would vote AA, TM, or Keane

Imma start with Keane and see what happens

##unvote
##vote cckeane

Hmm, very interesting.

I still donít get why scum would vote for a claimed pgo though.

IllegallySober
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Moatillata posted:

Also Keane is coming off as extremely defensive like he has something to prove which makes me think soda may be right about her scum call on Keane.

Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "something to prove?"

I'm leaning away from an AS vote for now because she's both claimed her role outright and has been making reads. The PGO piece may still be a problem but I'd prefer to give it a day or two to see if we wind up with multiple kills and then revisit.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



Atomic Soda posted:

i assume phone is pgo but this is p much correct. given i am town, i only assume town will investigate as town. the alignment i will flip as is wild aligned.

So now you're merely assuming that you'd investigate as town instead of not scum?

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


IllegallySober posted:

Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "something to prove?"

I'm leaning away from an AS vote for now because she's both claimed her role outright and has been making reads. The PGO piece may still be a problem but I'd prefer to give it a day or two to see if we wind up with multiple kills and then revisit.

Look at his response to my request for his response

He gave a snarky response, went back and cleaned it up and then doubled down even more and tried to find a case for it

He could have just let it go at the first response and it would have been fine and I've seen him do that in previous games.

Also wrt to this

b-minus1 posted:

Hmm, very interesting.

I still don’t get why scum would vote for a claimed pgo though.

We are assuming there is a redirector but there may not be one in which case it would behoove scum to push the soda lynch in which all parties are blameless and doesn't give us a bunch of info.

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


Another thought is she may be 3p but with my flavor and Monas flavor and the fact that this is an eccogame I am really inclined to believe what she's saying

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


Moatillata posted:

We are assuming there is a redirector but there may not be one in which case it would behoove scum to push the soda lynch in which all parties are blameless and doesn't give us a bunch of info.

Sorry for being more dense than usual, but why exactly are we assuming there is a redirector?

If there is a redirector, the smart play would be to keep AS alive, and then redirect a town player to target the pgo. IMO
Though now that I think about it, scum would want to kill AS to prevent a town power role forcing one of them to visit Soda.
Lol, this is what I get for trying to play night action mafia on d1

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015


Doctor Rope

Moatillata posted:

I will flip as something other than town and I am town aligned. This makes 100% sense to me I just think soda didn't fully understand what being a Miller means


I really don't wanna kill her now and I think AAs vote and TMs votes are p lovely

Also Keane is coming off as extremely defensive like he has something to prove which makes me think soda may be right about her scum call on Keane.

Right now I would vote AA, TM, or Keane

Imma start with Keane and see what happens

##unvote
##vote cckeane

Soda isn't a new player or an idiot from experience, what would they misinterpret about miller?

Atomic Soda
Jun 8, 2005

drink this baby

CCKeane posted:

So now you're merely assuming that you'd investigate as town instead of not scum?

i don't understand what you are driving at with this line sorry. i know i will investigate as town, thats it. it seems mostly irrelevant unless you are 3p, is there a big difference otherwise?

i'm going to bed in 10 minutes its past 4am, i will be up before deadline

Slamburger
Jun 27, 2008



b-minus1 posted:

Sorry for being more dense than usual, but why exactly are we assuming there is a redirector?

If there is a redirector, the smart play would be to keep AS alive, and then redirect a town player to target the pgo. IMO
Though now that I think about it, scum would want to kill AS to prevent a town power role forcing one of them to visit Soda.
Lol, this is what I get for trying to play night action mafia on d1

Also, ignoring tricky night actions scum have no way to get rid of a PGO from an endgame standpoint. Thats really not relevant at all right now, and given its also a Death-Miller claim scum could be confident that town will not leave that player around to the endgame. But its germane to the root of your question of "why would scum vote for a PGO"

Atomic Soda
Jun 8, 2005

drink this baby

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Soda isn't a new player or an idiot from experience, what would they misinterpret about miller?

err what did i misinterpret drat it? isn't deathmiller a townie who doesn't flip townie?

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



Atomic Soda posted:

i don't understand what you are driving at with this line sorry. i know i will investigate as town, thats it. it seems mostly irrelevant unless you are 3p, is there a big difference otherwise?

i'm going to bed in 10 minutes its past 4am, i will be up before deadline

Right, so you are clamining that you know the cop receives results as town/not town then, correct?

I find this extremely bizarre.

IllegallySober
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Moatillata posted:

Look at his response to my request for his response

He gave a snarky response, went back and cleaned it up and then doubled down even more and tried to find a case for it

I'm skimming at work, to clarify, we're talking about this exchange and his posts right after?

CCKeane posted:

Okay.

AS is wrong.

Ta-da!

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


b-minus1 posted:

Sorry for being more dense than usual, but why exactly are we assuming there is a redirector?

If there is a redirector, the smart play would be to keep AS alive, and then redirect a town player to target the pgo. IMO
Though now that I think about it, scum would want to kill AS to prevent a town power role forcing one of them to visit Soda.
Lol, this is what I get for trying to play night action mafia on d1

Okay, so when you said this

b-minus1 posted:

Hmm, very interesting.

I still don’t get why scum would vote for a claimed pgo though.

Why do you think scum WOULDN'T vote for the claimed PGO if you weren't assuming redirector

MY EYE IS UPON YOU

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


IllegallySober posted:

I'm skimming at work, to clarify, we're talking about this exchange and his posts right after?

Yeah

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


Atomic Soda posted:

err what did i misinterpret drat it? isn't deathmiller a townie who doesn't flip townie?


mafiascum wiki posted:

A rather controversial twist is the Death Miller, whose alignment is shown as "Mafia" by the Moderator upon death. This has been argued and discussed in Ethics Threads as a source of distrust in the Moderator, which most people feel should not be tolerated. Thus, the Death Miller is an particularly scarcely-used role even in bastard mod games.

Jonathan Fisk
Sep 6, 2010


POSTING
Champion
of
Something Awful


occam's razor leads me to think this claim is false. but then the way b-minus engages with it strikes me as odd as well. maybe it's just because i don't agree with his logic but he pings me

Atomic Soda
Jun 8, 2005

drink this baby

well poo poo, should have checked the wiki for both roles

i flagged i was unsure when i claimed is all i'll say in my defense

Atomic Soda posted:


i am town but boy howdy i'm also a paranoid gun owner death miller (not sure if my flip is the scum alignment tho)


sorry and goodnight!

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Game's over, and fuck you Jimson. It's not my fault that you guys couldn't get your shit together by deadline. No one gets access to docs because I don't fucking care anymore, I hope you all enjoyed ruining my game, and there won't be another.


Jonathan Fisk posted:

occam's razor leads me to think this claim is false. but then the way b-minus engages with it strikes me as odd as well. maybe it's just because i don't agree with his logic but he pings me

Yeah lets kill the hell out of b-minus he's a punk.

I need to rethink a bit in light of all these sudden "death millers" and figure out why AS wasn't as forthright as the others were. Although she did say "not sure I will flip scum" so unless that whole group is scum I still tend to think it was not a fake claim.

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Game's over, and fuck you Jimson. It's not my fault that you guys couldn't get your shit together by deadline. No one gets access to docs because I don't fucking care anymore, I hope you all enjoyed ruining my game, and there won't be another.


Atomic Soda posted:

well poo poo, should have checked the wiki for both roles

i flagged i was unsure when i claimed is all i'll say in my defense


sorry and goodnight!

Ha nice timing AS

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


Moatillata posted:

Okay, so when you said this

Why do you think scum WOULDN'T vote for the claimed PGO if you weren't assuming redirector

MY EYE IS UPON YOU
i already offered an explanation why scum would ignore the pgo claim, because they obviously wouldnt visit the pgo at night. I wasn't assuming any role other than what is being claimed. You're the one who mentioned redirector out of nowhere lol

Jonathan Fisk posted:

occam's razor leads me to think this claim is false. but then the way b-minus engages with it strikes me as odd as well. maybe it's just because i don't agree with his logic but he pings me

lol. i hope you are scum.

Atomic Soda
Jun 8, 2005

drink this baby

cant stop posting

b-minus1 posted:

i already offered an explanation why scum would ignore the pgo claim, because they obviously wouldnt visit the pgo at night. I wasn't assuming any role other than what is being claimed. You're the one who mentioned redirector out of nowhere lol


lol. i hope you are scum.

i raised it in my claim post so its hardly out of nowhere

Atomic Soda posted:

claiming is a problem also cause if scum have a redirector they just gunna feed townies into my fire, but i think its better than sitting on this info.

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


it wouldn't be a mafia game without me overlooking something.

##unvote
I stand by what I said earlier. If we decide that Atomic Soda should be lynched today, I would like to be the one that hammers. If it turns out to be a gambit and she's actually a jester/bomb/some other lethal role, then I don't mind dying.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015


Doctor Rope

##unvote ##vote AS

Forgot the cardinal rule

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


Atomic Soda why aren't you self-voting?

Dick Bastardly
Aug 22, 2012

Muttley! DO SOMETHING!!


Grimey Drawer

After all this I've come around to believe the claim, so now I ask: What's the problem with keeping AS alive? She's essentially a vanilla town (assuming it's not a gambit)

What town in their right mind would visit her after all this?

I'd propose Keane, Hal or TM as alternatives for a lunch today.

Phone posting until an hour or two before deadline, so any requests for detailed cases on these players will be obliged at a later time.

Dick Bastardly
Aug 22, 2012

Muttley! DO SOMETHING!!


Grimey Drawer

I think Keane's posting (whom I think is probable scum) as it relates to AS' claim points to the likelyhood that the scums do not have a redirector.

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


Dick Bastardly posted:

I think Keane's posting (whom I think is probable scum) as it relates to AS' claim points to the likelyhood that the scums do not have a redirector.

how did you come to this conclusion

Slamburger
Jun 27, 2008



Dick Bastardly posted:

After all this I've come around to believe the claim, so now I ask: What's the problem with keeping AS alive? She's essentially a vanilla town (assuming it's not a gambit)

Massive distraction for the rest of the game; every day she's alive some portion of the playerbase is going to want her gone. Scum can easily argue loudly about the pros and cons to avoid posting reads. Eventually she will have to be killed off because you can't let the potential for a gambit stand until the end of the game, and she can never be cleared by any tower power.

So then AFTER she dies its another shitfest of speculation about whether she was really scum or not, and people are going to go back and re-read all her posts and interactions and try and argue whether she was really scum gambiting or actually a death miller. All of this will be completely unproductive and not help the town find scum at all. But people are going to do it. And again, scum can participate in this instead of being pressed for reads and having to make (fake) cases.

So, I strongly argue to get rid of her now and minimize the amount of wasted time towns spends discussing a PGO Death Miller. I don't really mind that its the subject of Day 1 cause Day 1 sucks anyways and I generally don't like the crapshoot of dissecting people's jokeposts for scummy behavior. But if we're still talking about this Day 2, Day 3, etc, its going to be very frustrating. Even if you believe her (If forced to choose, I would say she's probably truthful), the best move for town in the long run is to eliminate her now.

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Game's over, and fuck you Jimson. It's not my fault that you guys couldn't get your shit together by deadline. No one gets access to docs because I don't fucking care anymore, I hope you all enjoyed ruining my game, and there won't be another.


Dick Bastardly posted:

After all this I've come around to believe the claim, so now I ask: What's the problem with keeping AS alive? She's essentially a vanilla town (assuming it's not a gambit)

What town in their right mind would visit her after all this?

I'd propose Keane, Hal or TM as alternatives for a lunch today.

Phone posting until an hour or two before deadline, so any requests for detailed cases on these players will be obliged at a later time.

I refuse to be an alternative, either go all in on me or go home

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!


Fallen Rib

b-minus1 posted:

Atomic Soda why aren't you self-voting?

I believe AS said that they were going to be the one to hammer just to ensure there was no bomb mechanic or whatever.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!


Fallen Rib

Dick Bastardly posted:

After all this I've come around to believe the claim, so now I ask: What's the problem with keeping AS alive? She's essentially a vanilla town (assuming it's not a gambit)

What town in their right mind would visit her after all this?

If the scum team has any sort of redirect roles they can redirect people into AS to have them get killed. Then it's almost like they get two NKs.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!


Fallen Rib

Plus like others have said it's better to get rid of her (no offense AS) now than to have her sitting around causing a distraction.

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


SalTheBard posted:

I believe AS said that they were going to be the one to hammer just to ensure there was no bomb mechanic or whatever.

ok, this is what should happen. still don't understand why AS is voting keane

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

Official Henshin Historian, bringing you fresh takes on tokusatsu history since 2017!


b-minus1 posted:

how did you come to this conclusion

I think I can at least see what Bastardly is looking at, namely that Keane's being extremely aggressive (as Moat points out, as well) with regards to this push on AS, and, as a result he is looking a bit scummy for it.

If you take the assumption that we have Scum Keane over Town Keane right now, the aggressiveness in pushing for a lunch of AS (who has been more or less forthright with her role) would lead you to believe that the scum team likely does not have a good way to take advantage of AS' PGO role.

For what it's worth, coming back to the thread, I think Keane is reading more suspicious than Hal.

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Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

Official Henshin Historian, bringing you fresh takes on tokusatsu history since 2017!


Moatillata posted:

Another thought is she may be 3p but with my flavor and Monas flavor and the fact that this is an eccogame I am really inclined to believe what she's saying

To clarify, it is not 100% a Deathmiller but it is a Psuedo-Deathmiller mechanic. I will be flipping something other than Town-Aligned on my death, much like AS. I cannot confirm one way or another that either my flip is not the True Scum Alignment this game, and I assume AS' flavor is similar, hence shorthanding it to a Deathmiller.

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