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LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

Explopyro posted:

(Of course there's a way around that problem too, but it's pretty much strictly worse gameplay-wise. Are you going to talk about that option, Hippoman?)

Yes, but probably in a bonus update or something, since I'm on NG and not NG+. If you want to discuss it in the thread though, it's no skin off my nose.

SonicRulez posted:

The RNG kinda ensures that every one will be different in some way. I had a run of FE7 where Eliwood hit several caps and Hector sucked. I thought that wasn't possible.

Your FE7 cart is haunted, sorry to break the news.


Fionordequester posted:

So, I'm just going to pretend I'm a Fire Emblem noob, for the sake of critiques.

I do think you make good points here. I want the LP to be understandable even if you've never touched the games, but I've also got to balance that with not turning every update into a slog of mechanic explanations and formulas. Some of these things are just for brevity's sake (adjacent is quicker than "north/south/east/west", there is no good way to tell who can speak with who in this one (Yellow Glow didn't come around until PoR, IIRC) so I didn't mention it), but stuff like the eradication of slim weapons from my mind and the bad Constitution wording is just me making some mistakes. I'll go back and fix them, thanks for letting me know.

I just want to throw out, for the whole thread, especially Fire Emblem newbies, if there's something you don't understand or think I forgot, feel free to let me know. I am far, far, far from perfect at LP (or, like, anything), and I am not an encyclopedia about this game. Heck, pretty much everything FoolyCharged posted here about Ross I didn't know. I'm doing my best to provide something that's fun to read but also informative, and if I'm sacrificing too much on the latter end, feel free to tell me and I'll take another look. No one can save my jokes, they are untouchably bad.


Lots Of People posted:

Ross Promotion Chat

Don't worry, I'll put a formal(ish) vote up when the time comes. Though, if you want my opinion, as much as I love Rosszerker he is a little overdone. I'm pretty attracted to that Warrior option, and that would mean I get to show off Pirate anyway. But it's up to you.

LordHippoman fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jun 2, 2018

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TheOneAndOnlyT
Dec 18, 2005

Well well, mister fancy-pants, I hope you're wearing your matching sweater today, or you'll be cut down like the ugly tree you are.
I feel like Ross ought to be made a Warrior solely on the basis of nobody ever using Warriors.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute
This LP made me dig out my FE8 cartridge and apparently I made Ross a warrior in my last playthrough! And he was quite good! Berserker is probably the "best" choice but honestly he's got so many levels to work with he can probably get promoted into anything and be fine.

I've never yet made him a Hero because it seems like a waste, but I'm tempted to do so on my current new playthrough if only because it feels the most thematically appropriate to his character.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land




I never liked Vanessa, or Peg Knights in general. They're kinda squishy and always come in chapters chock full of bandits. Not a great a combo


Wyverns are the far superior flying creature

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!
I like them because it's really hard for them to be completely useless. At worst, they can still be a dodge tank, magic tank, or a distraction.

BlazetheInferno
Jun 6, 2015
Making Ross a Hero can help him due to the Speed boost he gets on promotion, and access to swords, which means he's not locked to a single weapon type (plus, swords' high hit rates counteract his low-ish skill nicely). However, it completely wastes his great strength growth due to the low cap.

Warrior and Berserker both take full advantage of the strength growth with their high caps. Berserker gives him the same speed boost as going to Hero (1 point at each promotion instead of 2 at the second), but he trades the swords for a very nice crit-boost with his axes.

Warrior, on the other hand, does give him bows, but bows don't offer him a whole lot, honestly, especially since they can't counter in melee. Sword-using fliers are pretty rare, and he can murder lance-wielding fliers just fine with an axe. Plus, going Warrior means he loses out on the speed boost.

If we're determined to not just throw him at Berserker like literally everyone else does, I'd rather see him go Warrior than Hero.

Dance Officer
May 4, 2017

It would be awesome if we could dance!

BlazetheInferno posted:

Making Ross a Hero can help him due to the Speed boost he gets on promotion, and access to swords, which means he's not locked to a single weapon type (plus, swords' high hit rates counteract his low-ish skill nicely). However, it completely wastes his great strength growth due to the low cap.

Warrior and Berserker both take full advantage of the strength growth with their high caps. Berserker gives him the same speed boost as going to Hero (1 point at each promotion instead of 2 at the second), but he trades the swords for a very nice crit-boost with his axes.

Warrior, on the other hand, does give him bows, but bows don't offer him a whole lot, honestly, especially since they can't counter in melee. Sword-using fliers are pretty rare, and he can murder lance-wielding fliers just fine with an axe. Plus, going Warrior means he loses out on the speed boost.

If we're determined to not just throw him at Berserker like literally everyone else does, I'd rather see him go Warrior than Hero.

Ross does not have a good strength growth so much as he has potentially 50 levels to use it. As for the cap, my experience is that the strength cap isn't super relevant for axe users. 25 strength is enough to off all mooks forever, 27-30 strength isn't enough to comfortably take on the tough bosses.

As for the weapon options, bows are useless and swords are strictly inferior to axes. (unless you need the hit rate, of course)

Krumbsthumbs
Oct 23, 2010

2nd Place.
1st Loser.
Everyone has a unit in FE that should be amazing, but never works out for them. Ross is that person for me. I know he's objectively pretty good, but his speed growth has never panned out for me. Sure, he has a decent haymaker, but he gets torn to shreds on the enemy turn. Hopefully Ross pans out for the OP and people can see how scary Ross can be if his growths hit.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

Krumbsthumbs posted:

Everyone has a unit in FE that should be amazing, but never works out for them. Ross is that person for me. I know he's objectively pretty good, but his speed growth has never panned out for me. Sure, he has a decent haymaker, but he gets torn to shreds on the enemy turn. Hopefully Ross pans out for the OP and people can see how scary Ross can be if his growths hit.

His speed growth is low and his base is atrocious so he lives and dies off hitting it. Getting a ross that gets speed screwed and winding up with a merely ok unit is a decentally common outcome.

vilkacis
Feb 16, 2011

Lord Koth posted:

And if you're going through the effort of raising the trainees, why would you want to gimp yourself?

If you want to play optimally, you wouldn't be using the trainees to begin with. Ross isn't awful to use since he comes in so early, but he's still an "I use you because I like you" unit.

And berserker only overtakes hero in strength around like... level 10/20/11. It's a couple of points by the very end of the game, if you actually reach the level cap.

TheOneAndOnlyT posted:

I feel like Ross ought to be made a Warrior solely on the basis of nobody ever using Warriors.

I feel like Ross ought to be a warrior because I want to be a warrior is like 80% of his personality. Might as well let the kid!

Oh, and also because







:v:

Krumbsthumbs posted:

Everyone has a unit in FE that should be amazing, but never works out for them. Ross is that person for me.

Ross shouldn't be "amazing", though. Like, he's okay if you train him, but the reward isn't so much an invincible super unit (compared to if you put the same amount of effort into any other Sacred Stones character) as it is seeing him grow from zero to (possibly literally) hero. His expected speed with 50 levels and two promotions under his belt is like... 18.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Well be meeting the worlds fastest suit of armor soon enough.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE
I agree that berserker Ross is overused. But I think it's up to LordHippoman, and it's not as if we are in any of the crazy insanity modes where we can't afford plays and unit choices that are fun but weaker than others.

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!
This game isn't exactly difficult enough to min/max your characters. Hell, you could probably make it to the last map without promoting if you really wanted to. You might be able to do the final map too but it'd require a mounted unit doing lots of hit-and-run

LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

Torrannor posted:

I agree that berserker Ross is overused. But I think it's up to LordHippoman, and it's not as if we are in any of the crazy insanity modes where we can't afford plays and unit choices that are fun but weaker than others.

I will take whatever the thread votes for me, and bungle my way through endgame, cheating with monster grinding if I must.

(though I may be slightly cranky if you deny me swordmaster joshua)

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

You'll take your triple assassin party and like it.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009
Seth is probably early 30s, I figure. Franz is, I think, meant to be even younger than Eirika, so 15-16, but it's kind of hard to tell.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009
Also the fighter/warrior line is probably the most consistently bad classline in the series.

FE1/3/11/12: Barst is alright, Bord and Cord suck.
FE2: Don't exist.
FE4: Iucharba is basically the same as Iuchar, only Iuchar has a horse. They're both kind of mediocre and make you wish you had Lex and his Brave Axe back.
FE5: Othin and Halvan are both pretty good, Dagdar can ORKO 80% of the enemies in the game at base, so all in all a good showing.
FE6: Lott and Ward are garbage, Bartre is a mediocre prepromote, they're all outclassed by Gonzales.
FE7: Dorcas and Bartre are mediocre, Geitz is an okay prepromote who you won't get unless you feed your lords a ton of kills.
FE8: Ross is meh, Garcia is decent.
FE9: Boyd is actually good, but he's the only one you get. Titania kind of outshines him as axe users go.
FE10: Nolan struggles valiantly to make the Dawn Brigade not die, so he has that going for him at least.
FE13: Vaike is mediocre, Basilio is just a random prepromote.
FE14: Arthur is decent, Charlotte exists to give Xander massive stat boosts.

I guess it isn't that bad when you map it out, but there's always a feeling of 'I wish I was using a Pirate/Brigand/Axe Knight' instead for the most part. It's mostly just a symptom of axes in general being really underplayed in FE games. FE8 here has a whole four dedicated axe users, and we just got two of them. FE9 only has three, and it has way more characters than this game. FE10 has the biggest cast in the series. How many dedicated axe users does it have? Five. Iunno why the devs hate axes so much, they're the coolest weapon type.

The Klobbinator
Sep 8, 2013
First LordHippoman I catch nearly on the ground floor, instead of archived.

I'm excited to see someone else show love to the first FE I actually played, and also putting forth the motion of no-berserker Ross, we all know he's great at that, but let's try something different.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE
It's not unusual for Nolan to have the most kills in FE10.

OOrochi
Jan 19, 2017

On my honor as the Dawnspear.
Yeah, for a good portion of RD, Nolan's the only one in the Dawn Brigade who can actually kill things.

Also, putting forth another vote for Ross as a warrior.

Keldulas
Mar 18, 2009
Nolan is THE best warrior flat out. He's the only one who'd you consider 'essential' in any fashion. Even ignoring that, he gets an amazing unique weapon and is built to completely abuse Radiant Dawn's bonus exp mechanics. Amazing at all stages of the game. The ones who have the best chance to compete with him at all in the series are Othin and Halvan, and I'll admit at least they do a drat fine job of it. They're definitely really strong, but impacted in relative strength by the best characters in FE5 being utterly broken.

Boyd who comes back in FE10 also makes a good showing. In general, them nerfing a lot of functionality of mounted classes in Radiant means that warrior gets to shine a lot brighter than normal there.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009
I'd say Dagdar is better than Nolan. Dude puts the game on his back, he's the best combat unit in FE5. (Safy and Lara might be better, but one's a healer and one's a thief/dancer) Dagdar and Nolan basically do the same thing, helping an extremely weak party through an incredibly hard part of the game, but Dagdar only leaves for 3 chapters instead of 50% of the game, he outclasses enemies more, and scrolls can let him keep up more even if he doesnt get many kills for a bit. Plus he's great at capturing, which is somewhat hard to come by in FE5 and so is a semi-unique talent of his.

We're getting pretty wildly off topic though.

Endorph fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jun 2, 2018

Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010


The Great Twist
I like using warriors in the GBA games because their animations are cool.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

I like using warriors in the GBA games because their animations are cool.

agreed

bibliosabreur
Oct 21, 2017
This inspired me to pick up my copy of Sacred Stones again. On the plus side, Eirika is managing an improbable number of crits (including cases where she was really not supposed to, nearly causing a reset on the very first chapter--but then she managed to crit and OHKO the boss, so all's forgiven?).

On the minus side, Ross and Garcia are consistently missing 80% shots :negative:

That seems to be the big problem with axe-users. FE games are ones where you want certainty as much as possible; a small amount of damage at 100% certainty beats out a big chunk of damage that might or might not happen. Axe users are very much the second when they're not levelled, which in turn makes them harder to level up, which leads to them falling further behind, et cetera.

MarquiseMindfang
Jan 6, 2013

vriska (vriska)

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

I like using warriors in the GBA games because their animations are cool.

Beyblade crits are cool. Always.

Fionordequester
Dec 27, 2012

Actually, I respectfully disagree with you there. For as obviously flawed as this game is, there ARE a lot of really good things about it. The presentation and atmosphere, for example, are the most immediate things. No other Yu-Gi-Oh game goes out of the way to really make

bibliosabreur posted:

That seems to be the big problem with axe-users. FE games are ones where you want certainty as much as possible; a small amount of damage at 100% certainty beats out a big chunk of damage that might or might not happen. Axe users are very much the second when they're not levelled, which in turn makes them harder to level up, which leads to them falling further behind, et cetera.

Eh...that depends on what specific game you're playing, IMO. There's the GBA games, but then there's the really crazy modes; like Lunatic+!Awakening, H5!Shadow Dragon, Reverse!New Mystery...and etc.

I got a brand new appreciation for axes, just for when I absolutely needed that damage :cheeky: .

EDIT: Oh yes, I vote for Pirate Ross, just because units like him are already such an investment....units like him are such an investment. I'd really hate for LordHippo to get screwed on his Speed. It's just too important :( .

Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jun 2, 2018

hopeandjoy
Nov 28, 2014



It might be because my current RD playthrough’s Nolan is garbage and it’s clouding my memory, but even Nolan sucks.

I’ve always had good Boyd luck and good Kieran luck in PoR and obviously Titania is a beast no matter what though, so it only makes Dawn Brigade chapters more unbearable at least. I always end up carried by Micaiah and Sothe with Edward and Aran being sort of useful.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

Just know that I will vote for the weirder choice at every promotion and so should everyone. Let's make this a weird gimmick run, it'll be fun for everyone! except maybe LordHippoman

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute
Nolan is good by virtue of the fact that everybody around him is terrible and he has to carry them. It's kind of like how Aran in Part 1 is a "tank" by virtue of dying in 3 hits instead of dying in 1-2 hits.

Nolan has good bases, solid growths (particularly SPD) promotes quickly because he's not an exp sponge despite being higher level than the rest of the group, uses the best melee weapon class in RD, and he's around for very difficult chapters in Parts 1 and 3. There's just no other warrior in the series you're required to lean on even remotely as much. Yeah he gets outshined by a bunch of guys come Part 4/Endgame, but the same could be said of pretty much anybody who isn't Ike, or a laguz royal.

Carlosologist
Oct 13, 2013

Revelry in the Dark

I've taken a crack at this game again since this LP came up, and my Ross is blessed in strength so far, while he's gained 0 speed in 7 levels

so, your mileage may vary :v:

hopeandjoy
Nov 28, 2014



Sydin posted:

Nolan is good by virtue of the fact that everybody around him is terrible and he has to carry them. It's kind of like how Aran in Part 1 is a "tank" by virtue of dying in 3 hits instead of dying in 1-2 hits.

Nolan has good bases, solid growths (particularly SPD) promotes quickly because he's not an exp sponge despite being higher level than the rest of the group, uses the best melee weapon class in RD, and he's around for very difficult chapters in Parts 1 and 3. There's just no other warrior in the series you're required to lean on even remotely as much. Yeah he gets outshined by a bunch of guys come Part 4/Endgame, but the same could be said of pretty much anybody who isn't Ike, or a laguz royal.

yeah but my Nolan had a total strength count of 19 by the time I finished 4-3.

yeesh.

BlazetheInferno
Jun 6, 2015

hopeandjoy posted:

yeah but my Nolan had a total strength count of 19 by the time I finished 4-3.

yeesh.

Someone didn't abuse BEXP!

Keldulas
Mar 18, 2009
While that does point to some pretty bad RNG screw, it also points to you not using the BEXP system after hitting some caps. RD is one of the easiest games to abuse for later game high stats. It also doesn't really change the fact that for Nolan to be a high enough level for 19 to be low strength, you had to use him quite a while. Which means he was bailing the Dawn Brigade out of a lot of poo poo in that period.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

Plus Nolan has built in nihil so he doesn't have to waste skill points on it to be able to hit 90% of all the endgame bosses.

E: also, warrior is probably safer for Ross than seeker. If Ross winds up speed screwed as a seeker all he can do is pray for a crit, but as a warrior he has his ridiculous strength behind bows for way better chip damage and accuracy than hand axes.

FoolyCharged fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Jun 3, 2018

hopeandjoy
Nov 28, 2014



BlazetheInferno posted:

Someone didn't abuse BEXP!

I was saving it for the units I care about. Like Soren. And Pelleas. And Nephenee. And Mia. And getting Micaiah up to speed at the beginning of endgame. Etc.

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!
Honestly, that's the beauty of these games. The complete randomness over how everyone can turn out almost makes it a different game every time. You can have a character like (for example) Eliwood who in theory is supposed to be a well-rounded fighter end up as garbage one game and the next game he's an unstoppable beast on the battlefield. I've seen a Gilliam determined to outspeed a car, a Neimi who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, a Lyn who could shrug off a spear to the face...it really adds to the replayability.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




megane posted:

Seth is probably Anime Old, i.e. like 30. An ancient warrior, practically at death's door.

In a shocking twist, Seth's actually 55 but he just doesn't look it. Just like Masahiro Sakurai, Mario, Hirohito Araki, Ming-Na Wen and Keanu Reeves.

LordHippoman posted:

I want you to know how much I appreciate it every time you hit that X Button. :allears:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RccT7-tvFs0

bibliosabreur posted:

Okay I've only just discovered Vilk's Tumblr full of sprite edits and I'm not sure if I'm more awed, amazed, or terrified.

Yeah, sadly Vilkacis only exists when there's a Fire Emblem LP going on.

RareAcumen fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jun 3, 2018

vilkacis
Feb 16, 2011

It is true, I'm in a state of quantum exmblemcistense. :ghost:

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LordHippoman
May 30, 2013

I, frankly, want this smug Jagen to be my avatar on all forms of social media immediately.

RareAcumen posted:

Yeah, sadly Vilkacis only exists when there's a Fire Emblem LP going on.


vilkacis posted:

It is true, I'm in a state of quantum exmblemcistense. :ghost:

This thread is actually only here to continue sustaining Vilkacis' life force, everyone, I'm sorry I fooled you into thinking it was an LP.

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