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mewse posted:Am I hearing an undercurrent of PTSD 1985 Honda CB700SC. The interface between the drive cable and the gears that spun the speedometer was a possibly magnetic/friction fit between a bell and a disc set inside the bell at an offset angle. Really wish I had a pic. I had the speedo out to replace the pointer needles, which were made of that '80s plastic that becomes insanely brittle in the sun, with the blades from plastic sword skewers. Looked fine, but I made the mistake of cleaning the interface area. That goofed it enough that the bike read at 2/3rds of what speed I was actually going. Ebay replacement #1 was locked solid, somehow. Ebay replacement #2 ... crap, I don't remember now. Messed up as well. Bought a universal aftermarket speedo. Had to replace the first since it only worked in reverse, somehow. Must've been a common thing because customer service didn't blink. Replacement for that works fine and sits nicely inside the head unit. I can't get to the trip odometer to reset it, and the angle's wrong so I can't read it unless I'm standing on the pegs, but if a cop pulls me over I have a functional speedo. Been looking at some commercial options like Sagebrush's unit, but they seem really distracting, and hard to set up if you're a bit of a dummy like me. Edit for clarity: the commercial units look distracting. Sagebrush's looks nice, way less attention-grabby, especially if there's an option to turn off the moving background animation. TheNothingNew fucked around with this message at 15:57 on May 13, 2020 |
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May 13, 2020 15:54
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TheNothingNew posted:(okay, can't make the link work. Mentally insert Inspector Dreyfus's mad eye twitching from The Pink Panther here) I know exactly the mechanism you're talking about and it's a really cool piece of electromechanical technology. The speedometer cable drives a spinning magnet that sits inside, but does not touch, the brass cup that's connected to the speedometer needle. The cup rotates on a pivot and is spring-loaded to return the needle to zero. When the magnet spins, it induces an eddy current in the conductive brass cup, and that induced current creates a magnetic field that allows the magnet to drag the cup forwards in the direction of rotation against the spring. The faster the magnet spins, the stronger the induced current, and the further the cup can rotate before it's stopped by spring tension. By carefully tuning the spring you can calibrate the system so that a given rotation speed is translated to an angular position of the needle. Conceptually it's very similar to the spinning rotor on an electric meter, or that physics demo where you drop a magnet down a copper pipe and it hovers its way to the ground. No contact, no sensor, no battery, no electronics, not even any wires, just physics. Super cool Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 03:09 on May 14, 2020 |
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May 14, 2020 03:07
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Sagebrush posted:I know exactly the mechanism you're talking about and it's a really cool piece of electromechanical technology. The speedometer cable drives a spinning magnet that sits inside, but does not touch, the brass cup that's connected to the speedometer needle. The cup rotates on a pivot and is spring-loaded to return the needle to zero. When the magnet spins, it induces an eddy current in the conductive brass cup, and that induced current creates a magnetic field that allows the magnet to drag the cup forwards in the direction of rotation against the spring. The faster the magnet spins, the stronger the induced current, and the further the cup can rotate before it's stopped by spring tension. By carefully tuning the spring you can calibrate the system so that a given rotation speed is translated to an angular position of the needle. Conceptually it's very similar to the spinning rotor on an electric meter, or that physics demo where you drop a magnet down a copper pipe and it hovers its way to the ground. I just watched the RCR episode on the CB900 Custom and now I really think there was some designer at Honda in the 80s with a massive hardon for unnecessary ~elegance~.
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May 14, 2020 03:43
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Sagebrush posted:I know exactly the mechanism you're talking about and it's a really cool piece of electromechanical technology. The speedometer cable drives a spinning magnet that sits inside, but does not touch, the brass cup that's connected to the speedometer needle. The cup rotates on a pivot and is spring-loaded to return the needle to zero. When the magnet spins, it induces an eddy current in the conductive brass cup, and that induced current creates a magnetic field that allows the magnet to drag the cup forwards in the direction of rotation against the spring. The faster the magnet spins, the stronger the induced current, and the further the cup can rotate before it's stopped by spring tension. By carefully tuning the spring you can calibrate the system so that a given rotation speed is translated to an angular position of the needle. Conceptually it's very similar to the spinning rotor on an electric meter, or that physics demo where you drop a magnet down a copper pipe and it hovers its way to the ground. Isn't this how basically every cable speedo bike newer than the Jurassic works? I've only opened a couple but they all had that non-contact system.
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May 14, 2020 03:53
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Yeah its super common and not at all specific to any brand or model. Its just the way things were before speedometers started using stepper motors Tons of Japanese (and some european) bikes used Nippon Denso and Nippon Seiki gauges back in the day, so many of them are probably the exact same gauge guts, just styled differently per manufacturer. Looks like a ton of motorcycle companies are on the client list for Nippon Seiki https://www.nippon-seiki.co.jp/global/products/meter_products/#2r That doesnt mean it isnt a cool and simple use of some rad physics, because it sure is. Its just not rare or uncommon is all Beve Stuscemi fucked around with this message at 19:16 on May 14, 2020 |
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May 14, 2020 19:11
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yeah I certainly don't think that Honda invented that mechanism or anything. I'd bet that some clever engineer came up with it in like the 1920s and it was used in every speedometer/shaft speed gauge for decades until electronics started to take over. but you'll never see anything like it again because now a stepper motor and an ATTiny cost less than the metal and magnets and that's kind of sad.
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May 14, 2020 19:52
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Sagebrush posted:yeah I certainly don't think that Honda invented that mechanism or anything. I'd bet that some clever engineer came up with it in like the 1920s and it was used in every speedometer/shaft speed gauge for decades until electronics started to take over. What mechanism did you use for your speedo cable sensor? I see this thing
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May 14, 2020 20:12
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I designed my own 3D-printable version of something like that. The cable spins a magnet in front of a hall effect sensor. The most annoying part is that Honda (and presumably other Japanese manufacturers) use a M12x1.0 thread on the cable end, which is a non-standard size, but you can get a die for it or make it on a lathe. I actually made a 26 tpi SAE thread because somebody lost the metric gears for our lathe and it turned out fine for the half inch of threads I needed because 1mm pitch is 25.4 tpi. lol e: these days I've got a printer capable of building functional 1mm threads so for v2 I might just try and print it and call it a day. I don't think there's much shear on the cable end if it's routed correctly. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 21:15 on May 14, 2020 |
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May 14, 2020 21:08
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Sagebrush posted:I designed my own 3D-printable version of something like that. The cable spins a magnet in front of a hall effect sensor. I have a bunch of inductive sensors from doing a prusa clone build but a hall effect sensor looks much simpler. I bet mine is that M12x1.0 threading.
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May 14, 2020 21:58
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Sagebrush posted:I know exactly the mechanism you're talking about and it's a really cool piece of electromechanical technology. The speedometer cable drives a spinning magnet that sits inside, but does not touch, the brass cup that's connected to the speedometer needle. The cup rotates on a pivot and is spring-loaded to return the needle to zero. When the magnet spins, it induces an eddy current in the conductive brass cup, and that induced current creates a magnetic field that allows the magnet to drag the cup forwards in the direction of rotation against the spring. The faster the magnet spins, the stronger the induced current, and the further the cup can rotate before it's stopped by spring tension. By carefully tuning the spring you can calibrate the system so that a given rotation speed is translated to an angular position of the needle. Conceptually it's very similar to the spinning rotor on an electric meter, or that physics demo where you drop a magnet down a copper pipe and it hovers its way to the ground. Yup! That's the thing. Thanks for the explanation; I was wondering why the cup was brass. Anyway, if you clean, lubricate, or breathe heavily on that thing it stops reading correctly.
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May 15, 2020 00:24
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TheNothingNew posted:Yup! That's the thing. Thanks for the explanation; I was wondering why the cup was brass. Yep, the cup has to be highly conductive but nonmagnetic, so something like copper would be best, but brass is cheaper, easier to work, and doesn't oxidize anywhere near as much. And yeah because it's a delicate balance between spring tension, pivot friction, and magnetic pull, calibration is a bear. I'm sure that in the factory they had some bench where each speedometer was connected to a calibrated cable and the spring was adjusted somehow to get it right.
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May 15, 2020 00:31
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Found this design: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2669706 Unfortunately it seems designed for a very specific hall effect sensor (probably 12mm threaded?)
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May 15, 2020 02:21
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Can you open STEP files? Here is my design. It works for any hall effect sensor in a half-height TO-92 package, like the A3144 or SS41. You just solder some wires on the legs, stick it through, and hold it in place with hot glue. https://www96.zippyshare.com/v/wzK4HZL1/file.html  The metal cable adapter inside needs to be made on a lathe from aluminum rod, but if you just stuck some threads on the part you could probably print it without much trouble.
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May 15, 2020 02:56
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Thank you! I have some really weak onshape skills to work with step files but I’ll take a look and try to adapt it
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May 15, 2020 04:26
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GPS speedo showed up this morning and I went out to the garage with a 2" hole saw. After trying to decide where to cut into my plastics, I decided it would be nicer to have it reversible, so I 3d printed a bracket to mount it at the top of the forks:    It's not wired up at all yet, I think there's a pair of accessory wires but haven't tested them and I don't know what type of spade connectors it uses
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May 15, 2020 18:36
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Can you post a link to that Speedo? I must have missed it somewhere in the thread
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May 15, 2020 20:59
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I mentioned it as my back up plan in case I can't fix the original speedometer, but didn't give a link, it's this one: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07KPBJKCR/ So I tied it into a couple power wires going to the existing gauge cluster, and it powers up with the key but.. it conks out if I put on the left turn signal. Right turn signal it just dims a bit. My existing speedometer seemed to work on the bench, so I'm not sure what the hell is happening. I have to check if the cable is rotating from the wheel.
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May 15, 2020 23:16
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Lifted the front wheel and spun it and the speedo cable turned, so the reason the speedo isn't/wasn't working is still a mystery. Made a rev 2 of the 3d printed bracket to include a button mount and a longer sleeve  I'd rather leave out the button but it resets the trip and I imagine not being able to reset the trip would be kinda annoying so I might as well get it set up now. Velcro'd the wire bundle below the gps speedo together so that it's more compact. Tomorrow I'm going to spend some time with the existing gauge cluster and the wiring diagram from the service manual to really nail down which wires to tie into for power, I want the ones powering the dash lights because they are on when the bike is on and off when the bike is off - no fuckery with turn signal stuff like the existing wires I tapped
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May 17, 2020 01:50
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It's late saturday and I've had a few adult beverages but I think I've got the wiring figured out, here's the gauge cluster: I tied positive into red/blue which is correct, and negative into green which is the signal wire for left turn signal. This explains the new gauge turning off when left turn signal is engaged. To fix it tomorrow I'm going to move the negative wire to black/yellow as god / kawasaki intended. Thank you, good night
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May 17, 2020 06:36
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Fixed the wiring for the gps speedo, soldered the button together with a little dupont connector for disassembly down the road. With everything hooked up again I went for a little test ride and surprise, the gps speedo is unreadable in direct sunlight. On the other hand the normal speedo decided to start working finally  
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May 17, 2020 17:50
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mewse posted:surprise, the gps speedo is unreadable in direct sunlight. Yeah, unfortunately this is what I found with my OLED displays too. They look fantastic at night, decent in the evening, and are impossible to read at midday. I tried to come up with a glare shield that would make it workable but it's not really something you can do on a motorcycle. Too much light and the angle changes too often. V2 has a monochrome transflective reverse-polarity LCD so it's got a pretty similar look but is readable in sun. As a bonus you can change the illumination to whatever color you like. That's nice because the amber OLED was just a tiny bit more yellow than I was hoping and as a designer it bugged me. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 17:57 on May 17, 2020 |
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May 17, 2020 17:55
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Sagebrush posted:Yeah, unfortunately this is what I found with my OLED displays too. They look fantastic at night, decent in the evening, and are impossible to read at midday. I tried to come up with a glare shield that would make it workable but it's not really something you can do on a motorcycle. Too much light and the angle changes too often. I'm not even allowed to ride at night with my learners permit so the gps speedo seems like a waste of time now. I'll prob run the stock gauges til your V2 is ready 
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May 17, 2020 18:03
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mewse posted:I'm not even allowed to ride at night with my learners permit Wait what
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May 17, 2020 19:33
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That's basically our rules, except we also have a capacity and hp:weight limit. It's a pretty normal sane thing to do, it only seems harsh to you because you have a retarded red white and blue neighbor insisting a 600 is too small to learn on. They relaxed the rules a few years ago, used to be a hard limit of 250cc and you weren't allowed on the motorway at all!
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May 17, 2020 20:53
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All of those seem usual to me except the curfew.
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May 17, 2020 20:56
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Slavvy posted:That's basically our rules, except we also have a capacity and hp:weight limit. It's a pretty normal sane thing to do, it only seems harsh to you because you have a retarded red white and blue neighbor insisting a 600 is too small to learn on. This is hate speech, I learned on a 750 🇺🇸
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May 17, 2020 22:04
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My state doesn't allow riding at night either on a learner's permit. But you can kill yourself on a Busa as fast as you want in the daytime.
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May 17, 2020 22:27
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:My state doesn't allow riding at night either on a learner's permit. But you can kill yourself on a Busa as fast as you want in the daytime. Hell yeah brother
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May 18, 2020 01:33
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:My state doesn't allow riding at night either on a learner's permit. But you can kill yourself on a Busa as fast as you want in the daytime. Same, it makes no sense.
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May 18, 2020 14:18
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Revised the gps speedo bracket to add a sun shade, might help?  
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May 21, 2020 15:08
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Bit the bullet and ordered EBC brake rotors, front and rear, $400 CAD from ebay isn't as devastating as I'd been dreading, hope there's no import duties and crap
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May 26, 2020 20:52
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If they're shipping UPS, you want to follow this guide to self-clear through CBSA and avoid UPS's idiotic brokerage surcharge. Downside is you almost certainly will pay duties since you're talking directly to CBSA, but it won't be near what UPS charges. Use USPS whenever possible; sometimes I don't get hit with duties at all.
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May 28, 2020 21:44
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They shipped fedex from the UK and I'm expecting the pkg to be held for ransom now
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May 28, 2020 21:51
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I've paid fedex customs and duty for only ~$25 cad and they're saying the rotors might show up on Monday. Not bad.
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May 29, 2020 22:13
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Phy posted:If they're shipping UPS, you want to follow this guide to self-clear through CBSA and avoid UPS's idiotic brokerage surcharge. Downside is you almost certainly will pay duties since you're talking directly to CBSA, but it won't be near what UPS charges. Oh drat I finally read this and this is the info I needed a few years ago when my chinese 3D printer was held ransom by UPS
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May 29, 2020 22:22
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