|
wait I know this one "Yellow"
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2018 15:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 22:35 |
|
|
Ask it about the ruins. It presumably knows something.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2018 15:30
|
|
|
"Hey big cat, I'm a friend, even if I ain't lion!"
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2018 15:46
|
|
|
nweismuller posted:Well, given we're supposed to talk to the lyon... perhaps greet it? If we only had the nerve.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2018 16:20
|
|
|
Sing at it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 00:12
|
|
|
Those violence options are pretty great. We get the hang of obnoxious nobility alarmingly quickly! The lyon doesn't seem savage. I think we should start by greeting it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 03:24
|
|
|
It's capable of speech, so it's probably sentient. Just greet it with respect.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 03:38
|
|
|
Level Two: The Ghosts of Al-Mugabi In which we hold out on a wild animal because we need to prove we're cool to some ghosts. Congratulations to ultrafilter for discovering the alternate solution! Truly, you are in touch with the Mad One himself to have chosen such an insane option. Next time: Our first actual puzzle of the level, and a surprise twist.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 12:59
|
|
|
Nakar posted:Congratulations to ultrafilter for discovering the alternate solution! Truly, you are in touch with the Mad One himself to have chosen such an insane option. That is some top-quality sarcasm in the game's reply, and I have to think they are assuming the player misread the option. "Music has charms to soothe the savage breast," says the old quote, and this option, but it is very widely misremembered as soothing the savage beast.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 16:57
|
|
|
The text for that flee option is some top-quality dry humor.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 17:16
|
|
|
Level Two: Meeting The Locals In which we encounter a representative of each aspect of desert life, settled and nomadic, and acquire the aid of both -- for a price. To address an elephant in the room, so to speak: Yes, the game is effectively equating the Mad One worship with Islam, and it's a little uncomfortable even though it isn't trying to generalize that to the real world. It's tempered only by the fact that the writing is nuanced enough to assume that people are people first and that following the Mad One doesn't make you inherently evil, but it is still a wee bit uncomfortable. There will be additional such moments as we go, so I advise everyone to be aware of it and understand it in the context of its time and of the storybook-esque world being spun here. But let's get a nice distraction from that, shall we? In addition to the puzzle we've got to solve, we will be given an actual choice should we succeed! Makound will offer to lead us northeast, toward the Twisted Temple, or northwest, toward the River of Flames. He knows little of either destination, but says both are "many mazes from here." Depending on which route we choose, we will encounter entirely different mazes with their own distinct Places of Power. Remember that our ultimate goal on this level is the Citadel of Osmet Khan, but its location is unknown (Makound has no idea where it lies either). Neither of those destinations sounds much like it'd bring us any closer to our goal, and we didn't miss any information that would tell us which way to go, so choose whichever strikes your fancy more. Don't worry about missing out on content, as I have a plan for that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 19:22
|
|
|
naw the one below me is right curiousCat fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jun 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 20:05
|
|
|
All right. One and only one of A and C will be using the lance. If A is using the lance, B is using the bow. However, B and C will not use the bow at the same time. This means A is using a bow and C is using a lance. The one hunter whose weapon is undefined is B, who, as far as we have been told, could use either. (He'd only use a bow if A used a lance, but A will never use a lance, so.) This means the only possible answer is Baudoin. As for destination... the Twisted Temple, I guess? It sounds slightly more inhabited, at least. Not as if we have much to go on. nweismuller fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jun 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 20:06
|
|
|
nweismuller posted:All right. One and only one of A and C will be using the lance. If A is using the lance, B is using the bow. However, B and C will not use the bow at the same time. This means A is using a bow and C is using a lance. The one hunter whose weapon is undefined is B, who, as far as we have been told, could use either. (He'd only use a bow if A used a lance, but A will never use a lance, so.) This means the only possible answer is Baudoin. Agreed. Laid out a bit more step-by-step (though the logic is the same really): 1. if A uses lance, B uses bow 2. exactly one of A and C uses lance at any given time 3. B and C never both use bow 4. A can never use lance (if A uses lance, then B uses bow per 1 and C uses bow per 2, thus contradicting 3) Thus, A always uses bow 5. Combining 2 and 4 means C always uses lance 6. B can use whichever weapon he wants at any time (only 1 and 3 place restrictions on B and both are contingent on weapons A and C can never use)
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2018 23:27
|
|
|
I agree baudoin is correct. As for where to go, I vote the twisted temple. I live next to a river that's caught on fire before. It's pretty lovely here.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 02:38
|
|
|
I always like and sucked in these logic puzzles. Anyway, it cannot be A because in the first day B and C would be forced to used a bow = a contradiction as B and C cannot use a bow at the same time. It cannot be C because in the second day B cannot use either weapon = a contradiction as any guy must use one weapon at any day. Therefore it must be B. Palladium fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Jun 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 03:14
|
|
|
Nakar posted:Level Two: Meeting The Locals Without dwelling too hard on that aspect of it, there was an interesting line at the very start of the game: the Elder told us: quote:And, my rash young friend, you will come to fear the Mad One, whose name you must never speak. Your parents, alas, spoke truly. He Whose Name Is Not Spoken is an immortal. Yet he is unlike the others who made our world: for he is born not of the fires of creation, but of primal chaos. Like others of his kind, he has many avatars: he is Trickster, master of good and evil; and also Chaos, bringer of death and destruction. He is hated and feared. Those who worship him do so to propitiate him, not out of love. This implied to me at the time that Weith itself includes The Mad One as part of its core religious culture, but in this context it seems like our leader is directly stating that all mortals are ultimately on the same side.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 03:49
|
|
|
Since there's a route split coming up, it occurred to me that all my little computer maps are unmarked and I have no idea which route is which and which PoPs show up in there in which order, so I had to go digging for some old reference material: No spoilers as this is the current map, but yeah I did this on graph paper for every single maze in the drat game. Anyway Twisted Temple is winning, so absent a significant interest to the contrary we'll be heading in its direction next, now that I remember exactly which way that is. ManxomeBromide posted:This implied to me at the time that Weith itself includes The Mad One as part of its core religious culture, but in this context it seems like our leader is directly stating that all mortals are ultimately on the same side. That said, he didn't do an awful lot to stop us from counter-overthrowing Timozel either (assuming he was even paying attention). The Mad One's favor doesn't seem to be worth much, though not because he's a weak god. If anything, he seems to be the most powerful god in the setting, as all The Lady has done is give us some hints. But he's certainly living up to his trickster reputation given his arbitrary abandonment of those he's previously empowered. Or maybe that's the way he likes it, and in that case... Nakar fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jun 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 04:51
|
|
|
Nakar posted:What isn't clear exactly is what anybody gets out of worshiping him. Does he grant blessings? Does he grant power? His acolytes brought up Timozel to overthrow Carlon, and supposedly it was the Mad One who permitted the Tercelidae to conquer the Atarri (despite the Atarri worshiping him). So it does seem like mortals are his playthings, and the Atarri may be devout only because they have little choice in the matter lest the Mad One make their situation even worse. I think that's exactly right. The Elder mentioned that The Mad One receives worship to "propitiate" him, not out of love. That's an old word meaning "appease" or "mollify". It's deific protection money. Weith might have a temple or two to The Mad One, basically to say "please don't hurt us, we're more useful to you as a stable source of goodies". Meanwhile, we probably shouldn't openly talk about our plans to hose The Mad One to the Atarri because they might thwart, betray, or otherwise hinder us in fear of the retribution they would face for knowingly helping us. But that betrayal would be the betrayal of a frightened subject, not that of a ruthless zealot. My yardstick for Problematic Subtext from 80s fantasy games is the Lone Wolf books, and compared to some of the stuff in those, this feels like we're being quite explicitly exhorted to Play Nice. Looking forward to seeing the Maze get trickier.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 06:08
|
|
|
Level Two: The Second Voyage, Part 1 In which we just wanna roc. This isn't much of a puzzle, just fishing for alternate solutions. One reason for going through so many PoPs here is that there are fewer puzzles early on this route than I expected, and the ones that do exist are somewhat binary. So a bit of a longish update here. Note that despite what Makound said, we can't simply ask the Tercelid soldier where the palace is, even though he's doubly indebted to us and might know of its location. Not sure how they overlooked that one and didn't even provide an option to ask!
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 14:16
|
|
|
I guess if you want to stay hidden from animals, pray to the Hunter?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 14:52
|
|
|
Zandar posted:I guess if you want to stay hidden from animals, pray to the Hunter?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 15:49
|
|
|
Well, if you kneel down in a field of cows, they all get curious and come up to see what the hell you're doing. So maybe it doesn't matter who we pray to, as long as we stay in the praying position. Still, we're not looking to hunt the elephants, so the Lady seems logical.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 16:22
|
|
|
I vote for No One In Particular. The Mad One is obviously out, same for the Sea Lord. The Warrior, Dancer, Smith and the Hunter feels to me more like aspects of these professions than forces of nature per se, and while elephants are really intelligent animals, I doubt they have the concept of professions. Last time we encountered the Lady, she really didn't do anything in particular but to dispense a cryptic clue, so I think she prefers the more hands-off approach to being a god. As for the Creator, I have only a gut feeling that they are also a fan of the hands-off approach, so I don't think they will do anything as well. However, I don't feel like they are good reasons in of themselves to not pray to one god in particular, but I am intrigued by a thing the Lady said:  This is going to go full  but what if No One In Particular is the ninth god?(The actual reason that I'm voting for no one in particular is because of what Domus said about the cows checking out someone kneeling)
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 17:59
|
|
|
Level Two: The Second Voyage, Part 2 In which a number of extremely bad decisions compound themselves until we're about to jump naked off a cliff.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 18:55
|
|
|
I'm going to suggest that we not jump naked off a cliff. I know, it's kind of a crazy plan, but hear me out. The Guru has already confirmed our humility. We are no longer being tested on that point. Furthermore, when we ask why, the reason has changed. Before, we were to do it because we wanted his assistance; now he's seeing if we'll jump off a cliff just because he says to. I propose that this is a test of wisdom.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 19:19
|
|
|
Don't jump off a cliff because that's an extremely stupid thing to do.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 19:20
|
|
|
Agree with ManxomeBromide.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 19:20
|
|
|
Sadly, we cannot tell him to pound sand.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 19:35
|
|
|
Jump up the cliff. Bet he'd never expect that one.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 19:39
|
|
|
It's a test of good manners, obviously. Jump, but insist that he goes first.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 20:52
|
|
|
They should have let us have a baby roc to raise, it would have been super cute  Buuut since that's not an option, let's Not jump off the cliff
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2018 22:38
|
|
|
Level Two: This Will End Well In which we don't jump off a cliff, and go on to have many adventures as a result. Of course jumping was the wrong answer, it's always the wrong answer. Regrettably, we may not survive much longer if Matilda should happen to find out we're trying to cheat her out of her magic bird. But that's something we'll just have to deal with when it happens. And it will happen.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2018 14:54
|
|
|
We could probably make the witch and the merchant fight for the bird. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2018 17:26
|
|
|
Just tell them that a goshawk in a cage is worth two on the mountain's peak, so they should both be satisfied.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2018 19:10
|
|
|
I think the at the moment witch has the more meritorious claim, but most likely the proper path will be to betray them both. Here is why the witch's claim is superior:
ManxomeBromide fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jun 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2018 22:54
|
|
|
That was some impressive magic from the witch but everyone knows that real witches use Dvorak for their spells.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2018 23:27
|
|
|
Level Two: The Best Worst Possible Outcome In which various things happen, then nothing happens. In the end, it was a good idea to just wash our hands of the whole affair, as ManxomeBromide noted. Though betraying them both just ends us with a goshawk that we can't really use. But hey, free bird, so there's that. Upon passing the whirlwind, we'll be in the Twisted Temple maze itself! This maze is a bit... unusual.  Whatever could this mean!? But we'll hit up the Temple first before we wrestle with weird asymmetries or multiple exits from the same maze.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2018 13:59
|
|
|
If (when?) we meet her again she's gonna be in such a foul mood, better be careful! Seems like all those outcomes were designed to end with her mildly/severely angry at us.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2018 23:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 22:35 |
|
|
Level Two: Temple Of The Mad One In which we get religion. Maybe a little too much religion. So perhaps unsurprisingly, we actually need to go to the River of Flames anyway! This time, at least, we have some purpose for doing so; had we gone there first, we'd have just passed it by and ended up on the route to the Twisted Temple, where we'd meet the shaman and have to go all the way back there. So in essence, this is the "optimal" path, as we've now got a way to get directly back to the shaman (and thus the temple) as soon as we've done what we need to do at the river. Of course, the shaman didn't bother to tell us anything about the intervening mazes leading to the river, nor how we're supposed to get him "the water of Flame" safely.  Skanker posted:If (when?) we meet her again she's gonna be in such a foul mood, better be careful! Seems like all those outcomes were designed to end with her mildly/severely angry at us.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2018 01:03
|
|