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Yeah, I’m not sure about others but it was not clear to us that “D&D” and “AD&D” were separate games. Looking back I know my group definitely had AD&D monster manuals, and I think the DMG? Whatever thief-acrobat was in. And a few players had their own 2e PHBs but the DM hated them and routinely banned stuff from them he didn’t like. I think the core of the rules we used may have been BX or BECMI.
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Jun 13, 2018 14:15
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I started with 2nd edition myself, and when one year an extended family member gifted me some of their 1st edition books for Christmas, it never occurred to me that I couldn't just use them with the game I had been playing. Honestly I didn't even know they were from a different edition until eBay becoming a thing made those other editions more available. Even when conflicting material showed up I just treated them as suggestions and used whichever version of a thing I preferred. My brother hates the idea of playing basic D&D because he hates the idea of class as race, so I can certainly see a point to such a supplement or for that matter, using one set of rules with a grab bag of stuff from another. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Jun 13, 2018 |
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Jun 13, 2018 14:54
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I don't actually want to use the AD&D combat rules, but there's a fair bit of tactics (or at least strategy) in there. 3e and especially 4e and games it inspired made the combat more tactical--I'd even argue that rather than being a departure, 4e hearkens back to Chainmail. But has anyone done an OSR game or supplement that takes the tactical elements of AD&D1e and tries to streamline them? I was very interested in what Malcolm Sheppard had to say about how it worked out when his group played 1e strictly by the book. (The relevant blog posts are lost.)
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Jun 13, 2018 15:14
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remusclaw posted:Late, but as someone who was into this stuff a while back, LL's reason for this was that apparently there was whole generation of players who came in through basic and "graduated" to AD&D who just sort of kept playing BX rules games with stuff from the advanced system tacked onto it. So that supplement is pretty much a bunch of usable AD&D stuff for your BX game. Yea, I was playing B/X when Advanced came out. We used it as an extension to B/X. We mostly pulled the classes from Advanced and continued using the B/X rules.
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Jun 13, 2018 16:40
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So why did later versions iterate on the AD&D rules and go for more Chainmail-like gaming instead?
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Jun 13, 2018 16:42
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Halloween Jack posted:I think that's basically the default; I mean, how many people studiously played AD&D by the book? One of the best campaigns I'd ever played in, running about 5ish years IRL and about 8 or 9 in game, started out as by-the-book 1st Edition, with weapon speeds, weapon-vs-AC, the whole nine. I think it was about 6 or 7 months in that we started to move away from the weapon-vs-AC stuff, and it got to the point where we only really looked at weapon speeds when trying to disrupt enemy spellcasting. Stuff like that just naturally fell by the wayside as we got more powerful and those mechanics didn't really add anything to combat anymore. Even level limits got changed around the middle of the second year, as I had hit them (playing as the only demi-human, a half-elf Fighter/Magic-User) a little while earlier, and the DM changed the rules from "no advancement" to "advance at 10% XP" (on top of various magical items, potions, philters, and other imbibables that circumvented that limit, often either for a certain amount of levels, for one of the classes but not the other, or both). To be honest, I'd been hooked by the original premise of "1st Edition AD&D by the book", and when the game started moving away from that premise, I don't really think it suffered all that much, if at all. Hell, losing a couple of players to college was a bigger issue than not using weapon speeds. So yeah, there are a few people who did play everything by the book, but even then there was enough cruft in the system to be able to dismiss it without losing out on any valuable gameplay interactions. Chesterton's fence and all that.
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Jun 13, 2018 17:06
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Aniodia posted:One of the best campaigns I'd ever played in, running about 5ish years IRL and about 8 or 9 in game, started out as by-the-book 1st Edition, with weapon speeds, weapon-vs-AC, the whole nine. I think it was about 6 or 7 months in that we started to move away from the weapon-vs-AC stuff, and it got to the point where we only really looked at weapon speeds when trying to disrupt enemy spellcasting. Stuff like that just naturally fell by the wayside as we got more powerful and those mechanics didn't really add anything to combat anymore. Pollyanna posted:So why did later versions iterate on the AD&D rules and go for more Chainmail-like gaming instead? There also wasn't much incentive for the designers to take on that challenge. Zeb Cook's AD&D2e design team had a mission to make a game that was more simplified and accessible, and the trend was already towards more story and less strategy and logistics. (In fact, losing these combat rules were some of the most significant changes to 2e; as a game it wasn't very different from 1e. The difference between them is more about style and feel, as exemplified in the new campaign settings and modules, than in the core rules.) I guess the innovations from Basic, like Weapon Mastery, were left by the wayside probably because almost everything in Basic was left by the wayside. Although Cook wrote several Basic modules, my impression is that the TSR staff didn't have much regard for the Basic line.
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Jun 13, 2018 17:42
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I was under the impression that BX/BECMI was less complicated and more streamlined than AD&D, hence “basic”. Did I get that backwards?
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Jun 13, 2018 18:41
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B/X and BE are much simpler, yes. It's the CMI part that adds all sorts of extra stuff (of which all but "I" was all compiled into the Rules Cyclopedia, giving you a tome every bit as big as AD&D). Weapon Mastery is one of those later bits (from the Master set, for levels 26-36). Xotl fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Jun 13, 2018 |
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Jun 13, 2018 18:45
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Pollyanna posted:I was under the impression that BX/BECMI was less complicated and more streamlined than AD&D, hence “basic”. Did I get that backwards?
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Jun 13, 2018 18:53
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Pollyanna posted:I was under the impression that BX/BECMI was less complicated and more streamlined than AD&D, hence “basic”. Did I get that backwards? But Basic has its own innovations. Fighters can become Paladins at high level--or even Avengers, a Chaotic paladin unique to Basic. There's also a ton of racial classes introduced through various supplements.
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Jun 13, 2018 19:01
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Wereseal sounds broken as sh*t
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Jun 13, 2018 19:07
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Halloween Jack posted:By and large, yes. For example, a big reason people switched over to AD&D was that AD&D separated race and class and introduced the paladin, ranger, druid, etc. Basic still has racial classes Sounds like Rifts class wise. (In that you could have a party with a Pegataur, a Bugbear, and a Chameleon Man ... and a Midwife. Someone always has to be the
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Jun 13, 2018 21:28
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Halloween Jack posted:I don't actually want to use the AD&D combat rules, but there's a fair bit of tactics (or at least strategy) in there. 3e and especially 4e and games it inspired made the combat more tactical--I'd even argue that rather than being a departure, 4e hearkens back to Chainmail. I don't know if it is necessarily streamlined, but Astonishing Sowrdsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperborea has its own take on AD&D combat that has a much clearer structure for the combat round.
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Jun 14, 2018 00:53
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thefakenews posted:I don't know if it is necessarily streamlined, but Astonishing Sowrdsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperborea has its own take on AD&D combat that has a much clearer structure for the combat round. 2e had very clear combat rounds, with individual actions assigned to individual segments of the 10 segment round. The main barrier was bookkeeping.
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Jun 14, 2018 00:56
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Literally my first exposure to D&D was played AD&D:Pool of Radiance for NES, which had an engine based exactly on the AD&D rules. It had a longer-than-usual manual, but it couldn't include everything. Intuiting AD&D rules from experience was wild. (Looking back, it's why I used to get into edition war arguments with people who claimed "AD&D is the most accessible game because the player doesn't even need to know the rules!) Figuring out the movement cost of diagonal movement, ambush, weapon initiative, and firing rates was a long and confusing process. I never did figure out the exact math behind why darts were the best ranged weapon. I had to read it in an actual AD&D rulebook years later and go "ohhh."
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Jun 14, 2018 03:15
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Siivola posted:LotFP's rules are freely available on DTRPG, so take a look before you buy the book. It's laid out really badly and honestly I don't think the innovations (encumberance, skill dice, ten-page-long Summon spell) are worth the bother of trying to find the real rules hidden somewhere between domestic hireling descriptions and household finance mechanics. Because Lamentations of the Flame Princess isn't really about being an adventurer. It's about getting enough money to be CEO of an adventuring company so you can throw your hirelings into death traps to save your character. The early game meat grinder is there to simulate all the lives you could have lived as a dirty, less cunning poor with bad genetics. That's "weird fantasy." (But seriously though, just steal the Resident Evil inventory and the d6 skill system and throw them in DCC or Into the Odd or something)
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Jun 14, 2018 03:23
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FRINGE posted:2e had very clear combat rounds, with individual actions assigned to individual segments of the 10 segment round. The main barrier was bookkeeping. Sorry, I perhaps should have been clearer. I meant more clearly structured as compared to 1st edition AD&D, which is what AS&SH seems to be primarily drawing from.
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Jun 14, 2018 03:58
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Halloween Jack posted:But Basic has its own innovations. Fighters can become Paladins at high level--or even Avengers, a Chaotic paladin unique to Basic. There's also a ton of racial classes introduced through various supplements.
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Jun 14, 2018 04:04
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On an unrelated note, I finally bit the bullet and bought the Hot Springs Island books. Holy crap, they're cool! I don't think I have seen a better organized hex crawl for any system at any time!
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Jun 14, 2018 16:24
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Babylon Astronaut posted:The Avenger is so, so, loving broken. Not only can you parley with any intelligent, chaotic monster and claim sanctuary in their dungeon, you can also pretend to be a paladin and parley with lawful castle owners. You also get smash, parry, and cleric spells at 1/3 your level. Build your fighter with decent charisma, and you're neigh unstoppable at level 9. Everyone agrees - avengers end up becoming the annoying house guests you want to leave.
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Jun 14, 2018 17:21
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Does DCC have a hex crawl book? I couldn't find one on the website. I'mma pick up the physical book this weekend probably.
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Jun 14, 2018 18:50
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I don't think it does. The hexcrawls I use are: Hex Crawl Chronicles Vols 1-7 (S&W) Isle of the Unknown (LotFP) Hot Springs Island (systemless) Nod Magazine (generic or Blood & Treasure)
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Jun 14, 2018 19:09
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Hubris for DCC is pretty cool, but it's not a hex crawl. Hot Springs Island is systemless although steeped in D&Disms. I guess it would work pretty well with DCC.
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Jun 14, 2018 19:12
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DCC #84 Peril on the Purple Planet is a mini hex crawl.
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Jun 14, 2018 19:14
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I'm pretty sure Purple Planet for DCC is a hexcrawl system....I recall seeing hexes in it anyway. EDIT: SHITTTT
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Jun 14, 2018 19:23
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Also, Free RPG Day is Saturday, there are products for LotFP (dude magic of some kind), DCC (quick start rules + 2 adventures) and Tunnels and Trolls (Japan magazine with adventure and quick start rules) I'll be running a funnel and a level 1 adventure for DCC Road Crew at my FLGS, it should be a blast
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Jun 14, 2018 21:33
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So since there's nowhere within 50 miles or so of me that is doing Free RPG Day, anyone here who does have access want to pick up the DCC stuff for me, I'll pay for shipping plus a little extra too
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Jun 14, 2018 23:09
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The LotFP book is similar to last year's book - funky spells based on metal song names, using the "you can push your luck, but it's incredibly dangerous" spell casting rules. The biggest thing about it is that it includes the play test info on the "second edition" of LotFP. Attributes effect completely different things -
Cleric, fantasy races dropped, etc. This "second edition" isn't likely to come out anytime soon, it notes. May be worth taking into consideration if you already use a Last-Gasp-esque set of house rules.
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Jun 14, 2018 23:25
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Who or what is Holmes , I don't recall a game designer by that name or a game that was called that. I keep seeing it references and Google just shows Mike Holmes.
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Jun 14, 2018 23:47
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Hollismason posted:Who or what is Holmes , I don't recall a game designer by that name or a game that was called that. I keep seeing it references and Google just shows Mike Holmes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Basic_Set#1977_version
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Jun 14, 2018 23:54
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Ah I grew up on 2nd. Thanks.
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Jun 15, 2018 00:06
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drrockso20 posted:So since there's nowhere within 50 miles or so of me that is doing Free RPG Day, anyone here who does have access want to pick up the DCC stuff for me, I'll pay for shipping plus a little extra too If I can grab one I'll send it to you for shipping
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Jun 15, 2018 00:28
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alg posted:If I can grab one I'll send it to you for shipping Thanks, let me know if you do
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Jun 15, 2018 00:40
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I’m interested in the DCC stuff too if you can manage it. There are some good hobby stores in Albuquerque, it really sucks that apparently none of them do it.
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Jun 15, 2018 01:20
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andrew smash posted:I’m interested in the DCC stuff too if you can manage it. There are some good hobby stores in Albuquerque, it really sucks that apparently none of them do it. Which ones do you like? Ettin seems nice but kind of board game / wargame focused. Haven't really checked out others.
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Jun 15, 2018 01:30
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Twin suns has been cool every time I’ve gone. They gave my toddler his first d20 for free (which I had to take away in the car so he wouldn’t choke on it, but still). There’s also a place on the east side that I’ve played board games at, I forget what it’s called at the moment but they have a big gaming space. Astro Zombies in nob hill is cool though mostly comic focused. I haven’t gone to ettin actually but I’ll check it out sometime. I like war games.
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Jun 15, 2018 01:36
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Andrew and drrocks PM me, I got y'all DCC
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Jun 16, 2018 20:37
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alg posted:Andrew and drrocks PM me, I got y'all DCC Sent
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Jun 16, 2018 20:51
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Cool, got both your addresses. Will send on Monday
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Jun 17, 2018 01:44
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