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Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
Do you guys think the greater druid community would be for or against nuclear power plants? I think the relatively low footprint of uranium mining compared to fossil fuels means that fey creatures with any intelligence ought to be on board.

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Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Pham Nuwen posted:

I would think the elemental plane of fire should be able to power steam turbines quite handily.

If that's not in Eberron I'd be loving shocked.
yeah the ignan and aquan unions prefer a hybrid approach

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

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I've definitely seen the topic come up in the industry thread, I think it'd be nice to keep it there instead of here or the 5e thread.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

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Saguaro PI posted:

I keep hearing that OSR adventures are amazing but every one I've read is garbage and boring? They all seem to fit in the category of A) boilerplate sword and sorcery poo poo with maybe a dash of Lovecraft if you want to call your game "weird"* or B) A classic children's tale but with violence and loving. Like, the OP asserts that the OSR's adventures are way better than WotC stuff but I haven't found an OSR adventure that's even close to engaging as something like Tomb of Annihilation or Red Hand of Doom or whatever. Even Paizo's overblown adventure paths have a bunch of ambition. The only adventure I've seen that even had mildly engaging elements was Better Than Any Man with the broad Wurzberg setting even if it was slathered in Raggi's wannabe artist provocateur bullshit.

I know I'm being belligerent here but honestly I'm happy to be proven wrong with some good recommendations! I might not be particularly interested in OSR systems but I'm happy to nick stuff I like and run it with a system I enjoy. Preferably nothing written by shitheads.
I find many of them are much better than WotC at not wasting your time and including stuff that the DM needs and only that stuff. I don't want to read a dry description of a room if what the room doesn't look like doesn't matter - it's extremely distracting to have nonfunctional text around. I can generate 1000 unimportant room descriptions in my head I don't need it from a module. I just started DMing at the start of 2017 and so I probably haven't read the breadth of modules you have, but I find the WotC 5e modules (and many old TSR modules) read like they're paid per word rather than attempting to provide useful material and only useful material.

I think modules like deep carbon observatory are 100% brilliant at being evocative and interesting and not wasting my time at all. If you read that and don't at least "get it" I don't think you will find what you're looking for - it floored me that a module could be that concise and that interesting. I think tomb of annihilation is pretty good as far as wotc adventures go but they don't really compare.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
I've been trying like hell to be a player in a game but my schedule is hard to work around and I'm thinking of just accepting my forever-DM role and running something here - I'll let you know? It'd definitely be, uhh, moose head style with either labyrinth lord(BX/1e) or shadow of the demon lord. (Which I think actually fits the OSR ethos well despite not being a retroclone and having more complex character building.)

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
Lol it's a little tongue in cheek because it's referenced way too often(see a few posts ago) but basically if the DM says there's a moose head in the room, you don't just say "I search the moose head", you say in what manner you interact with the moose head. If you don't think to slide it and pull on it and reach your hand down its mouth and all the things you might do, you won't find hidden things that require that, while in a more "modern" game, you might roll investigate and move on.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
Yeah I'm assuming you want them to feel fantastic, but being overrun with ray guns and laser swords sounds a lot like being overrun with bows and metal swords. You could have them be fundamentally fragile or something if you wanted the party to constantly switch them around. (Limited ammo or a failure chance each round they are used might do it.) I would probably just let the party have and use them because they're cool.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

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I assume that means patrick didn't like what he made and doesn't want people thinking of that when they think of Veins of the Earth. :shrug: I can imagine being pretty sensitive to that, especially when that book is like, a cross-section of someone's very bizarre headspace like Veins is.

If I wanted to speculate I'd guess that skerple's style is too mundane for him. Maybe I'm projecting since that was how I felt reading through that hexcrawl - it softened the bizarre hair-raising edge of that book, which was one of its defining features.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

drrockso20 posted:

Which is mostly because a lot of the people in the OSR threads on /tg/ these days are petty little assholes, cause most of Skerples stuff is good


Which is silly because Skerples stuff is good at hitting a balance between being weird and being actually usable in a game
Uhh it's cool if you like it but clearly the author of the book didn't. The exchange comes off as a little petty but it's probably hard to strike a balance between actively making GBS threads on a creator with a boatload of criticism and quietly disavowing it. I don't think he'd have looked any better doing the former rather than the latter. Patrick did it quietly and explained himself (poorly) when asked via private message, and skerples posted the exchange on his homepage and blew it up. I'm not sure how much more reasonably he could have done it, assuming he doesn't like the work but also doesn't want to publicly poo poo on it.

He still links to a different veins article on skerples's blog on his other page, and also to one of the other complete hexcrawls (a mashup of veins and his other bestiary). It sounds like he didn't like this one in particular, to me - I'm not sure how you can fault him for that even if you like it.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jun 4, 2018

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
Yeah I think the idea is that you care about your little dudes and have to see some of them get murdered. It's not about having a lot of buttons to hit - combat in a level 0 adventure is more like, roll a dice to see who lives than a game of x-com - it's uncomplicated and mostly gets out of the way.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
The others can stick around in some capacity as part of the troupe and replace characters who die. Presumably they all still have shared purpose to some degree, makes sense that they'd keep working together. It'd probably depend on how they met - if they banded together when their settlement was destroyed they could work on building a new settlement and act as town NPCs and the like. They manage to save the blacksmith? The town has a blacksmith once he can build a forge, etc.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

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Pollyanna posted:

I was under the impression that BX/BECMI was less complicated and more streamlined than AD&D, hence “basic”. Did I get that backwards?
It is but it's not like, a less complicated variant of AD&D - both it and AD&D branched from the same original product and so it has some mechanics that AD&D doesn't have even if overall it is simpler.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
lol I mean it's good to give some personality to your pawns, that will make it a little funnier or more horrifying when they're brutally killed

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
gotta look forward to that sniveling baker getting his just desserts

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
Maybe one day the RPG community will collectively invent an RPG book that teleports you to another plane if you try to steal it.

Getting back your stolen self-made in-universe map/guidebook to the deep carbon observatory sounds like the start to a good sequel adventure though so at least there's that.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

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lol it's not like the absolute time amounts matter anyway...making distances anything other than abstract tiles was a mistake

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Elephant Parade posted:

:wrong:

unless you think you'd enjoy fielding a dozen "but how big is a tile" questions daily

1 square yard, hereafter referred to as 1

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
I really like the maze fwiw. Most of that criticism seemed pretty fair, though I think the issues are worse in WotC modules. At the very least, Storm King's Thunder is really weak in the hook department - I basically had to write my own stuff to get players to care to take up the giant issue "in the large". The "main story" opens with a single encounter and a couple of weak quest hooks and just throws the DM off the deep end with a huge list of locations, just like MotBM. At least in the latter, the locations are interesting. SKT feels like it has paragraphs and paragraphs about the inane history of some tavern in a mountain town with no reason to go there, let alone anyone to tell the characters the pointless stuff you just read. It's bad. Meanwhile, at the very least the maze doesn't waste my time, it's terse in all the right ways to evoke a specific mood for a given area or room and gives me enough to work with and nothing extraneous. It feels like, in SKT, 1 in every 10 sentences is useful or interesting, and I don't know the ratio for the maze, but it's much better.

I do think a lot of the issue could have been relieved with a little bit of text up front. Would a page explaining "you go here for the treasure" have made the reviewer stop and run something else? I don't know, but it couldn't have hurt. *I* certainly had different expectations of the two going in - SKT promises a grand world-saving narrative and I feel it doesn't deliver particularly well, while the maze is a dungeon with cool stuff in it. That said, I also don't think generating hooks is very hard compared to interesting NPCs or encounters or rooms or whatever - the part the maze leaves out is the easy part. I could never write NPCs or encounters like patrick stuart does, that's the thing the module provides to me that I could never do on my own. I didn't really feel like there was anything in SKT like that - the maps and art save time but are not exactly mindblowing, and the encounters are kind of a snooze-fest and again - the first major section, spanning two milestone levels, doesn't really provide any maps anyway.

I agree that the almery is the weakest part. I'm curious what he made in lieu of it if I ever end up running more of the maze. (I did it as a side thing on a couple absentee days.) It's weird that he quoted Zak as a way to point out a contradiction from a post that was literally Zak copping to that very criticism and providing an additional random monster table to use in lieu of chameleon women. His game would have been better if he had used the rest of the post! I'm fine with some of the complaints, like running away from monsters being a solution to most of them - that's kinda my jam tbh.

PS please do not buy anything that gives money to zak, pirate this if you want to see it

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

thefakenews posted:

The backstory to B2 is thin, but there's a clear hook of finding a place that holds various treasure, and also wanting to hold off the forces of chaos from the Keep (and civilisation generally). There's also a rumour table that generates additional hooks for the PCs, and that interact in potentially interesting ways with the reality of the keep. There are various NPCs in the keep, in the wilderness and in the Caves who have established motivations when interacting with the PCs. That includes the various faction based motivations of humanoid enemies, which in my experience leads to interesting roleplay encounters. There are also various Dungeon encounters that have interesting setups and interaction opportunities (like the ogre and the medusa). Those are all story elements to me.
The maze has these things too for what it's worth - I don't think it would have been enough for the reviewer. NPCs all have explicitly written motivations beyond "kill whatever wanders by". There are interaction opportunities abound - the point of the random encounters seemed to be to bounce monsters off whatever strange thing is in the room you're in and there are plenty of NPCs who interact with other NPCs in the same area. Basically, I don't think the maze is lacking in interactions "in the small" - the reviewer seemed to want more than that.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

thefakenews posted:

I mean, the review might be totally inaccurate when it says MotBM needs more story; I haven't read, and likely never will, enough of the module to say how much story it contains. But I do think B2 does contains meaningful story content.

Separately, I think interpreting the review to be a call for a linear plot isn't supported by the text of the review, given that the reviewer uses Tomb of Horrors as an example of an old-school module with a "plot" and then immediately summarises the plot of ToH as: The crypt contains riches, it’s guarded by a lich, you’re probably going to die. You’ll want magic weapons or you’re definitely going to die. Like, that's a pretty low threshold for plot.

If you want to make the argument that MotBM has as much story as B2 (or ToH) and—as a consequence—I shouldn't regard the criticism of lack of story as accurate, then fair enough. You might be correct.

Edit: My defence, such as it is, of the review is against what I perceive as the tendency of various OSR commenters to interpret differences in play style uncharitably, seemingly out of defensiveness. In this case, reading an expression desire for clearer story content as being specifically a call for linear railroad plots. I'm not defending the accuracy of the review's conclusions.
I was mostly responding to your words - I think the things you said about B2 mostly do apply to the maze. A table of rumors about the maze would have been cool for sure but I don't think it would have been enough for them.

I don't think it's invalid criticism and I don't think they're asking for a linear plot, I'm just guessing from the review that they wouldn't like B2 either. I think the maze could have used more interactions and things that happened with or without the players than it had, but that doesn't mean they weren't there at all. To compare with the author's other work, deep carbon observatory had a (compelling and dark) section on what would happen if the characters do nothing and there truly is no answer there in the maze... I think they'd continue waiting for someone to interact with them? The two are very different styles of module and I'm 100% okay with pure sandbox adventures existing but I understand not liking it.

Like I think a lot of his criticisms would apply to other sandboxes also, hot springs island comes to mind. There's more stuff that interacts with each other there but I don't think the hook for PCs is very strong either.

An internet community based on liking certain things getting defensive when those things are criticized is... unsurprising. I don't think it'd be that hard to get that reaction from some folks here.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

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Yeah I honestly I doubt I'd ever roll on that last column - In my game I've been using her as a way to turn stuff into gold, and gold into xp. My players were telling everyone they meet that "this place is scheduled for demolition".

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
Deep Carbon Observatory

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

remusclaw posted:

The OSR exists solely because people decided that the dead supplement mills for ancient games needed to be brought back into working order. It has resulted in a glut of publishing near equal to the D20 boom.
This is odd, the systems used tend to be super simple with way fewer senselessly complicated options compared to modern D&D. Are you talking about adventure modules specifically? To me having lots of those is a pure boon in a way that splatbooks that complicate things needlessly are not.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

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dwarf74 posted:

It's like, I'm trying to imagine a situation where I'd present my players with a petrified penis of any kind as a treasure item.

I can't see myself running a game where that would be a thing.
With the right tone it would be easy but that's definitely not the tone presented in the book!!!

*the monks lead you down a well-decorated corridor, through an ornate set of doors* "This is our most sacred altar" the abbot says deliberately. "Be respectful."
DM: Here's a picture of what you see
*shows photo of what is obviously a large gold-laden stone penis sitting on a decorative altar*
The abbot describes it's history and creation myth and all that but never acknowledges that it's a penis at all. He acts flustered and offended if it's brought up and has some other explanation for why it looks that way.

The penis has the power to "turn" small size humanoid males as a level 4 cleric or something. The abbot explains this power but once again, does not acknowledge the metaphor or phallic nature of the thing.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

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I don't think that kind of hyperbole serves anyone.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
Yeah I think your best bet is accepting that the title of the book/pdf is "dark dungeons" or "labyrinth lord" instead of dungeons and dragons. You can explain that they are indeed repackaged dnd and still call it dnd in your elevator pitch if you want.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
Yeah that's pretty overtly offensive to me - why would you have to roll for that? How could it fail?

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Lumbermouth posted:

These Super-Simple Combat Maneuvers. Disarming or knocking people down in RPGs should be just as easy as trying to kill people.
This one is weird. These things seem like things that the DM would already make a similar ruling on, but this codifies that all of them are simply "on crit". The maneuver substitutes for the crit effect. I think I'd rather make a judgement call on how hard it is rather than just give you a fixed 1/20 chance. "Disarming or knocking people down should be just as easy as trying to kill them" is something I agree with, but the rule as linked directly contradicts that.

If it was "you do the maneuver on-hit instead of your damage" or "you do the attack plus the maneuver and roll at a penalty" I'd be okay with it but on-crit-only seems...constraining.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
The set of adversarial DMs form a third team and if no team manages to finish the dungeon, they win the tournament.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Impermanent posted:

this seems like a misreading? They're explicitly on crit UNLESS the given enemy or player would rather take the maneuver than the damage. So you can't get extra damage out of the system, but you could disarm someone or grapple or push someone if they're afraid of taking your damage for one reason or another.
Oh I did misread, you're right. Doing it instead of the damage at least makes it a choice. I'd still be inclined to let you do many such maneuvers more than 5% of the time, even if the opponent would rather you didn't, but this at least works.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

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Memnaelar posted:

After reading Blue Medusa, Veins of the Earth, and Deep Carbon, I gotta say...

I really, really like Patrick Stuart. I hope he sells me something more soon.
He released a $5 hardcopy-only zine today - http://falsemachine.blogspot.com/2018/11/a-night-at-golden-duck.html

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
New Patrick Stuart kickstarter out, sounds as bizarre as can be expected. Into the Odd rules are baked in, presumably with a custom chargen table for the module. Titans are awakening and will destroy the world unless you go into their minds and put them back to sleep.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pandesmos/silent-titans

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
I backed patrick stuart's silent titans kickstarter, which sounds like the most bizarre trippy module imaginable. I'll pay for anything that guy makes. I've also been reading Ultraviolet Grasslands, a trippy module where the party does a point crawl with a caravan over a massive steppe. It's like oregon trail on acid so far.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Dec 28, 2018

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
It's okay.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
I ran the start of Anomalous Subsurface Environment tonight in BX. It went great! Only got two players on superbowl sunday so I gave them scarlet heroes fray dice and damage rules. The module, or at least the upper floor, was super easy to run and the map is pretty condusive to adding roll20 dynamic lighting.

The party found a group of 10 badly jury-rigged robots, who initially were inclined to turn the PCs' bones into replacement parts. Instead the party managed to convince them to join together to take down a big abomination robot with like, 4 legs and many arms all swinging blades. The robots have now outfitted themselves with his parts, including thick armor plating and extra arms, and they can count on the PCs as friends, which is the most important power of all.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Feb 4, 2019

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

andrew smash posted:

Anybody backing the ultraviolet grasslands Kickstarter?
Yeah I'm in - the author has a very distinct style and I think it'd be a good bit of work to dm but I like it a lot.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
I haven't gotten a chance to watch yet but here's a UVG session 1 - I haven't watched it and can't really vouch for it but it's the one I know about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB5UGJn1L98

One more week on the kickstarter for anyone who wants in.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Apr 6, 2019

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
Silent Titans is bizarre as hell, digging it so far! Ran the starter dungeon and it was quite weird but went over pretty well. Dunno if/when I'll get a chance to run more. My players are confused by titans, have no clue what's going on, and love the character creation.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

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alg posted:

This looks like probably the best B/X clone, at a good price: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/necroticgnome/old-school-essentials
I'm gonna back this, I've run BX with the old version and it was definitely a step up from any other clone I saw. I'm not a huge fan of this giving me two options for how it's organized though - I'd rather the creator be opinionated enough to choose which format is best.

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Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

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The Gate posted:

So has anyone else in this thread played Forbidden Lands? My group has run through a few sessions now, and I've been digging it. Definitely has an old school survival bent, though the mechanics are nothing like D20. It's built on the same system as Coriolis and Takes From the Loop (to my understanding, I haven't played either), and it's been a fun survival and exploration hex crawl with terrifying combat so far!

The random encounters built into the game are fantastic, and definitely do a lot to evoke the feel of the world. Fighting isn't a given (only the Fighter started with any type of armor) as it's very brutal and can death spiral easily, with scary crit tables. But encounters have a lot more to them than just "fight d6 wolves" or whatever, and apparently many can be found multiple times with changes depending on reputation, etc. Doing things in locations and then returning later can set things in motion behind the scenes. It definitely helps the world feel lived in and dangerous without every ounce of that depending on the DM.

Our first dive into some ruins left us with a smattering of minor scars, a disemboweled druid (who luckily lived and didn't go septic from the injury), two rival adventures run off thinking we were all gonna die, their leader's throat slit, and a terrifying undead king laid low. Oh, and a decent amount of silver found along the way. It's super awesome and you really have to worry about resources and upkeeping gear and scouting and travel.
Definitely check out spire of quetzel if you haven't already and aren't allergic to modules - I have read that but not the core book so I can't comment on the game, but it was very interesting and made me want to figure out how to work some parts of it in to my campaign.

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