Aotearoa New Zealand Politics: Please Don't

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Aotearoa New Zealand Politics: Please Don't

klen dool: May 7, 2007; Okay well me being wrong in some limited situations doesn't change my overall point.

Vagabundo posted:

Because the NZ film industry in the 90s was doing so well, and not relying entirely on long-running overseas tv shows like Hercules and Xena to get by during that mostly barren decade.

They may not need NZ money, and there are plenty of other places to film once this all blows over, but the fact remains, the NZ film industry needs overseas productions to get by.

Who gives a gently caress? The NZ film industry can do something else or even not exist at all. If I'm paying for it, I'd rather have a small one doing relevant media than a large one controlled by US companies.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 08:15

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 09:42

exmarx: Feb 18, 2012; The experience over the years
of nothing getting better
only worse.

oohhboy posted:

How else would I get a letter to every MP. I'm not going to BCC or CC and get flagged as spam. I looked it up, they explicitly tell you not to e-mail all members simultaneously.

send emails one by one

# ? Jun 3, 2020 08:16

oohhboy: Jun 8, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

exmarx posted:

send emails one by one

I rather have the computer print 121 copies, stuff them in one envelope instead of doing the already considered life hack you got there. I am not going to be a dick to parliamentary services or be "Clever" skirting some technicality. Don't underestimate the impact of a physical letter.

Also, what is wrong with you? Why are you sandbagging? I am bloody serious here.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 08:24

edogawa rando: Mar 20, 2007; I think my mass effect is broken

klen dool posted:

Who gives a gently caress? The NZ film industry can do something else or even not exist at all. If I'm paying for it, I'd rather have a small one doing relevant media than a large one controlled by US companies.

Have fun bolting those barn doors shut.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 08:30

oohhboy: Jun 8, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Additionally, I can get a lot of signatures on said letters, something you can't do via e-mail. Also, no, I don't do the hellscape of social media.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 08:32

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

oohhboy posted:

I am drafting a physical letter to send to every MP regarding our stance on immigration or assistance for the Hong Kong people. Any idea as to what to include? I have already fired off an e-mail to the immigration minister.

Should have pasted what I have sent, idiot.

the parliamentary email format is firstname.lastname@parliament.govt.nz, hth

# ? Jun 3, 2020 08:40

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

klen dool posted:

Who gives a gently caress? The NZ film industry can do something else or even not exist at all. If I'm paying for it, I'd rather have a small one doing relevant media than a large one controlled by US companies.

while i'm against it in principle, it's hard to argue that turning it away right now is the correct call

get that free hollywood cash while we can

# ? Jun 3, 2020 08:42

Wafflecopper: Nov 27, 2004; I am a mouth, and I must scream

Crossposting from the GBS (I know) riot thread in the hopes that someone here might be able to help

Wafflecopper posted:

well why not posted:
https://twitter.com/Isakdouah/status/1266858141913878528/photo/1

this is the MNPLS gask mask fund. you should donate if you can

I'd like to give money to this but I live in New Zealand. Venmo wants a US phone number, Cash App doesn't support my country, and Paypal won't accept my correct postcode. It tells me "please check your postcode format." It's a standard 4-digit postcode that I got with https://www.nzpost.co.nz/tools/address-postcode-finder which I've never had an issue with before. Anyone have any ideas?

# ? Jun 3, 2020 08:45

oohhboy: Jun 8, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

the parliamentary email format is firstname.lastname@parliament.govt.nz, hth

I have already sent an e-mail to the immigration minister via i.lees-galloway@ministers.govt.nz . No, I am not going to be a dick doubling on that address.

I need ideas for the letter itself, not on how to contact them.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 08:53

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

oh

well, good luck, i'm no help with that side of things

# ? Jun 3, 2020 08:54

Firstscion: Apr 11, 2008; Born Lucky

Plus sending letters keeps me employed which is nice.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 08:57

SurreptitiousMuffin: Mar 21, 2010

Sending letters is genuinely a very good way to get in touch with MPs. They get a fuckload of emails every day but relatively few letters, so it stands out.

Particularly because it took more work to write and send: there's an implication that it's more important.

like, I dunno whether it IS more important but I know from experience working in Thorndon that letters get taken a lot more seriously

# ? Jun 3, 2020 09:11

oohhboy: Jun 8, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

^^^Yeah, that's why I am will be sending letters to all of them beyond the e-mail. I have met MPs face to face in a sit down chat and it gets things done sooner or later. I will also be trying to get as many signatures on it as I can.

You might think otherwise but the NZ government is surprisingly accessible.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 09:23

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

oohhboy posted:

^^^Yeah, that's why I am will be sending letters to all of them beyond the e-mail. I have met MPs face to face in a sit down chat and it gets things done sooner or later. I will also be trying to get as many signatures on it as I can.

You might think otherwise but the NZ government is surprisingly accessible.

That's generally been my experience yeah

# ? Jun 3, 2020 09:35

edogawa rando: Mar 20, 2007; I think my mass effect is broken

The PPTA will probably do a letter-writing campaign about the Teachers Council hiking their fees. They've suggested writing Nikki Kaye and Chloe Swarbrick. At the meeting today, I mentioned that Kaye voted against our right to vote for our own representatives on the EDUCANZ board, even as the half measure that it ended up being, so YMMV.

loving avaricious fucks. We finally win a pay-rise and those shitfucks immediately reach into our wallets and start rummaging around to see what they can find.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 09:46

edogawa rando: Mar 20, 2007; I think my mass effect is broken

klen dool posted:

Who gives a gently caress? The NZ film industry can do something else or even not exist at all. If I'm paying for it, I'd rather have a small one doing relevant media than a large one controlled by US companies.

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

while i'm against it in principle

It's nice to know that there are people in this very thread that don't want to see opportunities for minority and indigenous people get an opportunity to have their stories told.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 09:48

voiceless anal fricative: May 6, 2007

oohhboy posted:

I need ideas for the letter itself, not on how to contact them.

It might be easier if you first explained what you want to achieve, especially if your aim is to prompt parliament or at least some MPs to do something.

In general though you'll want to give them specific things to respond to, so it's good to include somewhere in your letter an itemised list of questions or actions that you'd like them to take. Otherwise all you're likely to get out of it is at best a fairly generic response from a junior staffer.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 10:19

klen dool: May 7, 2007; Okay well me being wrong in some limited situations doesn't change my overall point.

Vagabundo posted:

Have fun bolting those barn doors shut.

I don't get it

# ? Jun 3, 2020 10:23

klen dool: May 7, 2007; Okay well me being wrong in some limited situations doesn't change my overall point.

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

while i'm against it in principle, it's hard to argue that turning it away right now is the correct call

get that free hollywood cash while we can

There will never be a right time to do it, and are we really getting that much? What's the opportunity cost? I am skeptical that we are significantly better off

# ? Jun 3, 2020 10:25

klen dool: May 7, 2007; Okay well me being wrong in some limited situations doesn't change my overall point.

Vagabundo posted:

It's nice to know that there are people in this very thread that don't want to see opportunities for minority and indigenous people get an opportunity to have their stories told.

Nice strawman you got there. Be a reeeeeeaaaaaaaal shame if it were to not be true....

# ? Jun 3, 2020 10:27

Piss Meridian: Mar 25, 2020; by Pragmatica

Vagabundo posted:

It's nice to know that there are people in this very thread that don't want to see opportunities for minority and indigenous people get an opportunity to have their stories told.

Lol

# ? Jun 3, 2020 10:29

Somfin: Oct 25, 2010; In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.; Nap Ghost

klen dool posted:

There will never be a right time to do it, and are we really getting that much? What's the opportunity cost? I am skeptical that we are significantly better off

Overseas funds literally pay hundreds of New Zealand film worker salaries and wages and commissions. Weta, just to name the big obvious one, works on dozens of overseas films per year and employs hundreds of people.

Like, this is a level of talking out your rear end I've never actually seen before, I cannot comprehend being this completely blinkered about how a local creative industry functions

# ? Jun 3, 2020 10:51

edogawa rando: Mar 20, 2007; I think my mass effect is broken

klen dool posted:

I don't get it

The horse has long since bolted.

klen dool posted:

There will never be a right time to do it, and are we really getting that much? What's the opportunity cost? I am skeptical that we are significantly better off

This is directly from a report commissioned for the Ministry of Business, Employment and Innovation and the Ministry for Culture and Heritage and published in 2018.

quote:

Box 7 Summary �direct economic benefit
The direct economic benefit of the grant relates to benefits associated with a particular production. Our estimate of economic benefit should not be interpreted as the contribution to GDP of the NZSPG as we excluded some components of GDP where we consider they have limited economic value to New Zealand.

The additional economic benefit associated with activity directly attributable to the NZSPG is $541.5million, comprising $58.7million from the domestic grant and $482.8million from the international grant. This includes both the primary benefits to New Zealand resident cast and crew and domestic producers, as well as the secondary benefits to suppliers and contractors.

Using a Treasury fiscal multiplier, we estimated the value that would have been derived from spending the grant money in a different way. We have also provided an indicator of the value of resources drawn to the screen sector by the incentives that would otherwise have been used in some other way.

We included an allowance for the deadweight cost associated with the net fiscal cost of the grants of 20% of the value of the net additional tax cost.

Our indicative estimate of the direct net economic benefit attributable to the NZSPG is $361.1million compared to grant expenditure of $177.1million. Of this direct benefit $25.0million is derived from the domestic grant and $336.1million is attributable to the international grant. Based on the evidence available, the economic benefits derived from the international grant significantly outweigh the costs. While the economic benefits of the domestic grant may not outweigh the costs, economic benefit is not one of the key objectives of the domestic grant.

quote:

Box 12 Summary�industry development and sustainability objective
Statistics New Zealand data shows that the screen industry has grown strongly recently, with gross revenue increasing by 26 per cent between 2014 and 2016. The production and post-production components have led this growth. Data on business performance indicators suggests that the motion picture industry has strengthened more rapidly than the rest of the economy, with particularly strong results in 2016. The size of businesses has been increasing which may indicate consolidation and sustainable business models. This data is consistent with the qualitative findings from our interviews.

There is quantitative evidence that television productions and formats that were funded by the grant have attracted international audiences consistent with the goals of the grant.

The generation of IP is a goal of the grants and this seems to be more consistently occurring in domestic productions,and was associated by producers with the creative freedom offered by the grant. In contrast, international productions are more likely to be innovative in terms of the techniques that they are developing and using. The latter may have broader applications outside the screen sector and the international sector suppliers appear more likely to be associated with indirect benefitsparticularly in the high tech industries...

The industry continues to rely on the grant. It is our view that large budget international productions and PDV would not be attracted to NewZealand without the grant due to the international price competition. There was a consistent view that there is a symbiosis between the international and domestic productions with the former offering skill development and budgets for investment and innovation and the latter a more consistent pipeline of work. Some larger (international-focused) suppliers provide informal support or reduced prices for local productions. This suggests that eliminating the international segment would limit the growth potential of local creatives and other specialised workers,with an associated quality effect on local productions. It may alsoencourage those with specific expertise to move overseas.

In the absence of the grant some domestic production would cease, there is also likely to be a quality effect as budgets decrease,and international audience attraction would be reduced as productions are targeted to meet the criteria of other more specific funders.Infrastructure investment would also be severely constrained in this scenario limiting the volume and quality of productions that could be made.

https://www.mbie.govt.nz/assets/afe4310c37/evaluating-screen-production-grant.pdf

klen dool posted:

Nice strawman you got there. Be a reeeeeeaaaaaaaal shame if it were to not be true....

It's simple - you get rid of the overseas production grant, it causes the industry to shrink, the labour that has been upskilled that brings in more audiences heads overseas, and it also ends up hurting local businesses that overlap who also benefit from the presence of the major film production to be hurt by it.

I'll type this really slowly so you can follow: "If no film industry, no indigenous or minority film maker make film."

But hey, please do provide evidence that Screen Production Grant brings no benefit to the country. I'm all ears.

edogawa rando fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Jun 3, 2020

# ? Jun 3, 2020 11:02

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

klen dool posted:

There will never be a right time to do it, and are we really getting that much? What's the opportunity cost? I am skeptical that we are significantly better off

Did you ever see that Simpsons episode where they make the Radioactive Man movie in Springfield? Let's do that

# ? Jun 3, 2020 11:03

edogawa rando: Mar 20, 2007; I think my mass effect is broken

Somfin posted:

Overseas funds literally pay hundreds of New Zealand film worker salaries and wages and commissions. Weta, just to name the big obvious one, works on dozens of overseas films per year and employs hundreds of people.

Like, this is a level of talking out your rear end I've never actually seen before, I cannot comprehend being this completely blinkered about how a local creative industry functions

Look, I don't think you understand. klen dool is sceptical, and that's all the evidence that's needed.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 11:05

Jaguars!: Jul 31, 2012

oohhboy posted:

I am drafting a physical letter to send to every MP regarding our stance on immigration or assistance for the Hong Kong people. Any idea as to what to include? I have already fired off an e-mail to the immigration minister.

Should have pasted what I have sent, idiot.

I'd put it down into several questions in a list, trying to force the politician concerned to put forward a positive statement of policy. So to spitball a bit on it:

- What options will Hong Kong Citizens fleeing from political unrest have if wish to settle in New Zealand?

- What changes to NZ immigration policy are being condsidered as a result of the Hong Kong protests?

- Does New Zealand expect political refugees from Hong Kong in the next 12 months and how many will be allowed into the country?

etc.

Obviously I know nothing about Immigration law but if you use the correct terms that government uses for programs and policies etc, you'll get answers in term of those policies.

Don't give them any outs, because they'll always take them on any issue they haven't pre-gamed. It's not rude to ask a politician questions on policy and expect an answer.

Write down your idea for each question first and then rework them one at a time to be specific, complete, blunt and tune them for the type of answer you want to receive. Play the politician and try and answer them with as little concrete information as possible, and then edit some more. Keeping the questions short doesn't allow them to hide in a part of the question that is easy to answer.

You'll probably get a lot of regurgitation of policy, but unlike in an interview, in a letter you have to put some kind of response because you can't argue on real time or hope for the clock to run short. If the pol wants to contest the premise of your question or thinks that it's loaded, that becomes a statment in it's own right as they refuse to answer it.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 11:23

Charles 2 of Spain: Nov 7, 2017

Crane Fist posted:

Did you ever see that Simpsons episode where they make the Radioactive Man movie in Springfield? Let's do that

FLIM NZ

# ? Jun 3, 2020 12:35

oohhboy: Jun 8, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

bike tory posted:

It might be easier if you first explained what you want to achieve, especially if your aim is to prompt parliament or at least some MPs to do something.

In general though you'll want to give them specific things to respond to, so it's good to include somewhere in your letter an itemised list of questions or actions that you'd like them to take. Otherwise all you're likely to get out of it is at best a fairly generic response from a junior staffer.

Now this is a good question. End goal is to open NZ to any Hong Kongers fleeing Hong Kong.

One of the biggest issues with the UK response is they are using BNO passports, a very vague path in which cannot be obtained by anyone born post 1997 handover. It is likely we would follow UK's lead which is quite the wet fart. Boris is also a hot air rear end hat, so I am not leaving NZ policy to chance.

This is the contents of the e-mail I sent. A bit of fishing.

quote:

Your Honourable Mr Lees-Galloway

I am asking as to what is our current and possible future policy in regards to the Hong Kong people.

Will they be allowed status as political refugees? If so will they be restricted to the refugee quota? Could there be possible loosening of criteria via other paths of immigration and if not citizenship, the right to work or permeant residency? What support do we or could give. Who currently qualifies for assistance.

I am aware this is an increasingly fast moving issue thus subject is change especially with COVID-19 complications. I appreciate any information or Mr�s personal stance on the matter.

Jaguars! posted:

I'd put it down into several questions in a list, trying to force the politician concerned to put forward a positive statement of policy. So to spitball a bit on it:

- What options will Hong Kong Citizens fleeing from political unrest have if wish to settle in New Zealand?

- What changes to NZ immigration policy are being condsidered as a result of the Hong Kong protests?

- Does New Zealand expect political refugees from Hong Kong in the next 12 months and how many will be allowed into the country?

etc.

Obviously I know nothing about Immigration law but if you use the correct terms that government uses for programs and policies etc, you'll get answers in term of those policies.

Don't give them any outs, because they'll always take them on any issue they haven't pre-gamed. It's not rude to ask a politician questions on policy and expect an answer.

Write down your idea for each question first and then rework them one at a time to be specific, complete, blunt and tune them for the type of answer you want to receive. Play the politician and try and answer them with as little concrete information as possible, and then edit some more. Keeping the questions short doesn't allow them to hide in a part of the question that is easy to answer.

You'll probably get a lot of regurgitation of policy, but unlike in an interview, in a letter you have to put some kind of response because you can't argue on real time or hope for the clock to run short. If the pol wants to contest the premise of your question or thinks that it's loaded, that becomes a statment in it's own right as they refuse to answer it.

Good tips. I am not looking to Duncan Gardner it. What a loving hack.

The open letter will obviously be far more in depth and finesse hence why I have come to this thread. The letter will be going to all 121 MPs. I will be chasing additional signatures for it.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 17:14

voiceless anal fricative: May 6, 2007

oohhboy posted:

Now this is a good question. End goal is to open NZ to any Hong Kongers fleeing Hong Kong.

One of the biggest issues with the UK response is they are using BNO passports, a very vague path in which cannot be obtained by anyone born post 1997 handover. It is likely we would follow UK's lead which is quite the wet fart. Boris is also a hot air rear end hat, so I am not leaving NZ policy to chance.

This is the contents of the e-mail I sent. A bit of fishing.

So it sounds like there are a few options for what you want:
- Hong Kongers to be considered under our current refugee quota (you'd almost certainly want to advocate for an increased quota at the same time)
- Hong Kongers considered refugees under a separate special quota of some sort, or an open border with no quota for Hong Kongers
- Special exemptions to our border restrictions for them to be allowed in and apply for residency under current immigration rules

Personally I'd suggest #1 or #3 here. As lovely as the situation is in HK it would also be pretty lovely and unfair to privilege them over other refugees.

You'd also want to justify whatever it is you suggest. Talk about NZ's longstanding relationships with HK, the size and contributions of the HK community in NZ, the medium and long term benefits big waves of immigration can have to a country (Germany is the recent example, Jews moving to Israel after the collapse of the Soviet union would be another one), etc.

Finally you'd also want to call on all MPs to publically condemn what China is doing in Hong Kong, and to issue statements in support of the HK protest movement.

# ? Jun 3, 2020 21:09

redleader: Aug 18, 2005; Engage according to operational parameters

i see the police are reading the room: Manslaughter charges laid against three police officers in New Plymouth court

# ? Jun 3, 2020 22:29

klen dool: May 7, 2007; Okay well me being wrong in some limited situations doesn't change my overall point.

You guys are probably right about the film thing, I've just got a lot of codeine in me....

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:07

Ratjaculation: Aug 3, 2007

NZ films peaked with Black Sheep

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:18

Big Bad Beetleborg: Apr 8, 2007; Things may come to those who wait...but only the things left by those who hustle.

Ratjaculation posted:

NZ films peaked with Black Sheep

What? Does anyone even kick arse for the Lord in Black Sheep?

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:45

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

Big Bad Beetleborg posted:

What? Does anyone even kick arse for the Lord in Black Sheep?

Uhhh..... black sheep came after braindead

# ? Jun 3, 2020 23:55

Felix_Cat: Sep 15, 2008

redleader posted:

i see the police are reading the room: Manslaughter charges laid against three police officers in New Plymouth court

The timing will be coincidental as it's clearly an investigation that's been going for a while now. The original incident was a year ago.

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:44

Varkk: Apr 17, 2004

They aren�t publicly disclosing much now. But it must have been really bad how the officers behaved because there have been other documented cases where they declined to press charges for straight up assaults etc. Maybe because the person died they are doing it but if it was they just failed to follow monitoring protocols I think it would only be internal investigation and discipline.

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:53

BuckyDoneGun: Nov 30, 2004; fat drunk

Never underestimate the power of a good comms person asking around for any good news they can announce in a timely fashion to help paint the organisation in a good light.

# ? Jun 4, 2020 00:57

redleader: Aug 18, 2005; Engage according to operational parameters

Felix_Cat posted:

The timing will be coincidental as it's clearly an investigation that's been going for a while now. The original incident was a year ago.

another, more cynical way to look at it is that the investigation was put on hold/ignored until the unrest in the usa really got going. then, once the police realised there was a good chance of someone noticing and making noise about it, they quickly decided that maybe they should take action

i don't know enough about police culture and procedure to make a call either way, but i am a cynic...

# ? Jun 4, 2020 01:08

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

redleader posted:

another, more cynical way to look at it is that the investigation was put on hold/ignored until the unrest in the usa really got going. then, once the police realised there was a good chance of someone noticing and making noise about it, they quickly decided that maybe they should take action

i don't know enough about police culture and procedure to make a call either way, but i am a cynic...

I'm pretty cynical and I have a hard time buying that tbh

# ? Jun 4, 2020 01:23

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 09:42

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

Somfin posted:

Weta, just to name the big obvious one, works on dozens of overseas films per year and employs hundreds of people.

ahem I think you mean "contracts the wholly independent services of" heh heh

# ? Jun 4, 2020 07:28

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