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 Pose is the new Ryan Murphy joint. Set in the mid-80's, it "looks at the juxtaposition of several segments of life and society in New York: the rise of the luxury Trump-era universe, the downtown social and literary scene and the ball culture world." It's probably going to be fab as gently caress! The cast seems great and I'm always down to watch people vogue, so let's do this. I might jin up a proper OP later, but it just premiered tonight and I didn't see a thread so e: lmao i forgot a thead icon thing A+ esperterra fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 07:52
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I feel I was out the door at "we robbed the world's dumbest museum and got no consequences ever" and then the rest of the episode made leaving easy.
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Jun 4, 2018 09:12
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The show is a little didactic. Like Blanca talking about trying to break into the white male world or James VanderBeek snorting coke and saying God Bless Ronald Regan.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:25
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The show is super extra, and that premiere could have trimmed a lot of fat, but I really loved it. The way it captures the essence of ball culture just puts a stupid, gay smile on my face and I was pleasantly surprised by some of the cast. The actress playing Angel, especially. I think? this is Indya Moore's first acting job, or one of her very first, I wouldn't have guessed it if I didn't know beforehand. Some of the monologuing was a bit much. But at least they were monologuing about stories worth telling, even if they're tales old as time at this point. It's all pretty on the nose but I expect no less from Ryan Murphy at this point. And it being Murphy, I imagine it will get even more over the top, but eh a show about gay culture and coke fueled businessmen in 80s New York should be over the top imo. I'm definitely in for the full season, at any rate. Even if the show itself turns out terrible in a few episodes it'll be worth it for those ball scenes.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:52
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If I was going to make a TV show it would be wall to wall soundtrack like a Ryan Murphy show.
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Jun 4, 2018 20:21
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Dmitri-9 posted:If I was going to make a TV show it would be wall to wall soundtrack like a Ryan Murphy show. dat dance to Whitney at the end was very good
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Jun 4, 2018 20:23
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this is such a magical show i love it. it's got the Murphy sheen to it meaning it's never going to be particularly down to earth for any extended period of time even if real moments abound, but the best moments made me feel like the best moments in that first season of Glee. there's a real joy to this that is very infectious, and those moments make the dramatic ones hit all the harder. END ME SCOOB posted:I feel I was out the door at "we robbed the world's dumbest museum and got no consequences ever" and then the rest of the episode made leaving easy. i'm sorry that this show is not for you but this show is coming from a man who once made an episode of a show where a winning field goal in a football game was kicked after the entire team did an extended dance sequence to Single Ladies, and that's not even in the top 20 weirdest things he's ever made. this is just an every day occurrence in Murphy World.
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Jun 5, 2018 04:42
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this wasn't even on my radar but i am now going to watch the poo poo out of it because it sounds like exactly my jam thanks bb 
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Jun 5, 2018 06:53
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DC Murderverse posted:i'm sorry that this show is not for you but this show is coming from a man who once made an episode of a show where a winning field goal in a football game was kicked after the entire team did an extended dance sequence to Single Ladies, and that's not even in the top 20 weirdest things he's ever made. this is just an every day occurrence in Murphy World. Glee, I presume? I did not come to Murphy's stuff until the first Horror Story. I dunno, I can't say this is bad, I just need more easing in to the insanity and that was the fastest time to giving reality the bird I may have ever seen in a show set in an era I was alive for. (I'm not gonna hang around and be lovely, promise.)
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Jun 5, 2018 06:55
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Oh wow I had forgotten about the Single Ladies Field Goal Kick that was loving awesome not gonna lie
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Jun 5, 2018 06:56
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precision posted:this wasn't even on my radar but i am now going to watch the poo poo out of it because it sounds like exactly my jam yw bb precision posted:Oh wow I had forgotten about the Single Ladies Field Goal Kick also agreed I wonder if this show will change hands in season 2, if it gets renewed. I've been wondering that about all of Murphy's FX properties, since his contract is up this month or next and then he's onto Netflix. Probably something I can google but  I'll do it later!!END ME SCOOB posted:Glee, I presume? I did not come to Murphy's stuff until the first Horror Story. Fair tbh. If not for it being a Murphy show set in the 80s ball world I might have been a little offput by it opening up with that, too, but it being explicitly about primarily gay culture kind of prepared my body for Murphy to get a little crazier than usual. I was surprised the museum heist was the only super unbelievable thing in the pilot for me, it ended up being way more subdued than I expected for this first ep. The only thing that feels really off to me so far, other than a couple of the performances and some of the monologuing feeling more like its being read than acted, is the Evan Peters subplot. And it doesn't feel so much off as ... out of place? I don't know. I feel like they could have held off on him til the second episode and this one would have flowed much better. Give us more time with the ball crew and setting that up, as well as more time with Angel so her scenes with him have a little more meat to them. Oh, and that James van der Beek scene was pretty awful but it was awful in exactly the way I loved lmao
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Jun 5, 2018 07:09
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it was totally believable that the museum wouldn't press charges but that's predicated on assuming that robbing a museum would have actually been that easy like i'm pretty sure motion sensor alarms and so forth existed in 1987
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Jun 5, 2018 07:38
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precision posted:it was totally believable that the museum wouldn't press charges but that's predicated on assuming that robbing a museum would have actually been that easy Yeah, I could 100% buy them not pressing charges to keep the museum's rep (not to mention I'm sure plenty rich fucks wouldn't want to go see that exhibit any more if they knew the gays had been gallavanting about in them) but the fact they got in and out so easily was lol
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Jun 5, 2018 07:39
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so yeah that was the best pilot i've seen since like, at least since Patriot also i feel like this video is oddly relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RLoP8hQ2_8
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Jun 5, 2018 08:37
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Ok so this was so OTT and Ryan Murphy but it was still enjoyable. He sets up great shows, but once he's involved in the day-to-day they go to poo poo. 10s, 10s, 10s across the board darling. I'll watch for a few more episodes.
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Jun 5, 2018 12:01
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You also gotta give massive props to Papa for making a "I don't come down to where you work and smack the dick out ya mouth" joke land after thousands of people have made that joke thousands of times before. Just a crazy amount of talent on this thing, the woman playing Angel is loving killing it.
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Jun 5, 2018 21:59
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I'm always looking for an excuse to post this video and this thread seems like the best one tbh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTaXtWWR16A ffffuck that choreo tho and those goddamn outfits uuughh those fan snaps!!! e: madonna's dancers during blonde ambition were so fuckin gr8 esperterra fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Jun 6, 2018 |
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Jun 6, 2018 08:40
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This was pretty drat good overall, though some of the actors (Blanca's in particular) noticeably struggle with some of the clunkier expository dialogue they're saddled with. Also, fewer writerly feel-good inspirational speeches, please.esperterra posted:I wonder if this show will change hands in season 2, if it gets renewed. I've been wondering that about all of Murphy's FX properties, since his contract is up this month or next and then he's onto Netflix. Probably something I can google but Murphy is staying on all of his currently airing Fox/FX series, and in fact has two upcoming series produced by Fox Television for Netflix that aren't part of the new deal he signed with the latter, though it's probably inevitable that he won't be as hands-on with them once he starts to work on shows under his Netflix contract. In other words, there probably isn't going to be any sudden and drastic change in his current relationship with Fox come July 1. Barry Convex fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jun 6, 2018 |
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Jun 6, 2018 20:22
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Yeah, Blanca was def the weakest for me and felt the most like she was reading her lines rather than acting them, at least in some of those longer monologuing bits. But there's still something v captivating about her, and I hope she settles into the role more as the show goes on. Her scene with the dean of the dance academy stood out as her best in the episode, imo. e: ^^ good to know! would be weird as hell if he abandoned a show like AHS when he moved to Netflix. him being not super hands on with them is nbd, dude's always juggling like 3 or 4 shows at a time anyway
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Jun 6, 2018 20:47
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esperterra posted:Yeah, Blanca was def the weakest for me and felt the most like she was reading her lines rather than acting them, at least in some of those longer monologuing bits. yeah she was very hit or miss in the pilot, in some scenes she was fantastic and the "I'm his mother" line reading was dope but hopefully there's less expository speechifying from her in the future also, according to Firefox, "speechifying" is a real word lmao
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Jun 7, 2018 03:41
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Blanca you need to give the safe sex talk before someone gets taken to the Christopher Street piers by a man in a black tank top.
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Jun 11, 2018 03:03
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I've been in enough gay scenes to know that the gay bar subplot was plausible, but it was still so weird. I know the endpoint of the plot was the "everyone punches down" moment but it felt like a bit of an odd hill for Blanca to try and die on. If she were coming in there with 5 or 10 trans women, yeah, I could see things getting nasty, but a gay bar that got its name in the Village Voice would probably not actually try to kick out any 1 or 2 people unless they were screaming "YOU FAGS ARE GOING TO HELL!" They'd just be very slow to serve them and dickish but not "you have to leave right now" dickish. Then again I was only 12 in 1987 so maybe it was that bad. Great episode though
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Jun 12, 2018 10:08
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I've been so caught up in E3 also I'm a filthy pirate and Pose didn't hit my tracker fast enough on Sunday for me to watch it that night, but I'll get round to it tmw. Still keeping the same level of quality as the premiere?
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Jun 12, 2018 10:12
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esperterra posted:Still keeping the same level of quality as the premiere? A couple weird missteps aside, I thought ep 2 was actually better than the premiere. This show is going places. The Angel/American Psycho plot just got WAYYYYYYY more interesting with his "I don't exist. I accumulate" speech.
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Jun 12, 2018 10:48
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Show's real good. Angel continues to be the standout for me, but I really like the kid playing Damon, he's great. Also Kate Mara is A+ lmao
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Jun 16, 2018 05:17
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lmao Angel just casually sliding the silverware into her purse as she gets up to leave, excellent.
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Jun 16, 2018 05:24
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I still like this show and I'm very glad it exists, but overwritten dialogue aside, it's very clear that it's written from a 2018 perspective of what trans identity is, at the expense of historical accuracy. That's understandable given how underrepresented trans women still are in popular culture, and up to a certain point, I'm fine with that; as one of the trans writers said in an op-ed:Our Lady J posted:While our trans characters on Pose might have referred to themselves as queens, transvestites, or transsexuals in 1987, the writers refrain from using these terms on screen because language around gender and identity has shifted so much since then. And it continues to shift. But that's just language. While I understand that the relationship between trans women and drag culture is an extremely complicated and fraught one - see the controversy over RuPaul's transphobic comments a few months back, or the previous one from 2014 - I would much rather have seen a version of this show that actually examines and confronts that relationship, instead of what the creators appear to have done, which is to avoid the subject entirely by erasing drag queens from ball culture and pretending that balls consisted entirely of trans women and gender-conforming cis gay men. I hate using the term "politically correct" as a pejorative, for fairly obvious reasons, but I'm not sure what else to call it. Barry Convex fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jun 18, 2018 |
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Jun 18, 2018 19:43
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Barry Convex posted:But that's just language. While I understand that the relationship between trans women and drag culture is an extremely complicated and fraught one - see the controversy over RuPaul's transphobic comments a few months back, or the previous one from 2014 - I would much rather have seen a version of this show that actually examines and confronts that relationship, instead of what the creators appear to have done, which is to avoid the subject entirely by erasing drag queens from ball culture and pretending that balls consisted entirely of trans women and gender-conforming cis gay men. I hate using the term "politically correct" as a pejorative, for fairly obvious reasons, but I'm not sure what else to call it. From what I understand a lot of the complications/etc between trans and drag culture is more a modern thing as gay people became more accepted while trans people were kind of left in the dust, despite being at the forefront with us during times like Stonewall. At least when it comes to the culture around house balls, or even pageants, where trans and queer people, queens or otherwise, were a bit more of a united front. Not to claim there weren't still prejudices out the rear end within our community, but less so in the ball world, where it didn't matter if you were gay or trans or a lesbian because the house culture was predominantly people of colour who weren't exactly accepted in more 'white' gay spaces. I'd also be interested in them exploring the divide more, though, both in their own subset of the queer/gay world as well as touching on more of the divides that were thrown up around race or whether or not you just liked dressing as a woman or were a woman on the inside. In general I think it could be very interesting to start to explore the different gay communities of 80s NYC outside our focus on ball culture, like more in depth than last week's episode about Blanca wanting to just get a goddamn drink in a gay bar and being denied every time. I could go on forever about the Ru thing and how much of that was Ru less being transphobic and more horrible at wording stuff/an old stubborn man who comes from a time when some godawful words were thrown at queen and not just trans folk, and maybe he feels he has a little claim to some of that even though they're not necessarily his words to reclaim-- at least not in the way he used to on the show and some of his songs. The world has changed a lot since even season 1 of Drag Race and Ru was slow to catch up with it w/ his creaky old bones. But I won't rant on about how ridic it is for people to call Ru transphobic b/c I could go for days. He's definitely very ignorant about some things that have changed, though, and in general still has a bit of a punk rock 'gently caress everyone else say what you want' attitude that doesn't fly v well when it comes to being a public figure in the social media world.
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Jun 18, 2018 20:09
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esperterra posted:From what I understand a lot of the complications/etc between trans and drag culture is more a modern thing as gay people became more accepted while trans people were kind of left in the dust, despite being at the forefront with us during times like Stonewall. At least when it comes to the culture around house balls, or even pageants, where trans and queer people, queens or otherwise, were a bit more of a united front. Not to claim there weren't still prejudices out the rear end within our community, but less so in the ball world, where it didn't matter if you were gay or trans or a lesbian because the house culture was predominantly people of colour who weren't exactly accepted in more 'white' gay spaces. I'd love to see the show actually explore that cultural relationship, i.e. what does it mean to be a cis gay man who merely puts on a female identity for performance, versus someone who identifies as female 24/7 but performs in balls as a way to adopt a glamorous version of femininity to which a racist, transphobic society denies you access? There are a lot of fascinating thematic and narrative possibilities there, but as long as the writers are deathly afraid of the mere possibility of anyone coming away from the show conflating trans women with drag queens, it's not going to happen. Agree to disagree on RuPaul not being transphobic, he absolutely is IMO, but this probably isn't the thread for that.
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Jun 18, 2018 20:33
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Yeah, for as interesting and good as this show is you can tell they're hesitant to paint the most accurate picture, if only because it could be read entirely the wrong way by a modern audience who's either not aware of what things were like back then, or just doesn't want to see anything of the sort on their television screens even if it's a show portraying that time. I hope the show does try to go there, though. It's early enough in the season that I hope they try to ease us into more exploration of those cultures and the different ways they interacted with eachother, good and bad. Also 100% down for agree to disagree on Ru, I don't feel like derailing the thread either lol I just felt like voicing my opinion it isn't quite so cut and dry as 'Ru is definitely transphobic'. I don't blame people who see it that way, though, he's put his foot in his mouth so many times when it comes to this stuff in recent years and is old enough he's not likely going to do any deep soul searching or change before he kicks the bucket. I just don't think he's malicious. Just incredibly ignorant.
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Jun 18, 2018 20:45
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Watching the third episode. I'm not too familiar with Charlayne Woodward, but she deserves far better writing than what she's given as the dance instructor; almost nothing she says to Damon sounds like something an actual human being would say and no actress can sell those florid motivational speeches
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Jun 19, 2018 03:44
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i think part of the reason we won't get that sort of in depth take on the relationship between different queer communities, especially in the past, is because there's just not enough time for Pose to be all of those things. It's already loving long (I've been catching up and really only watching one episode a day because they're really loving long!), and because it's one of a very few shows that is about trans people that is by and for trans people (Transparent is something else entirely), it kinda has to be everything to everyone, and has to skew a bit towards safety (as much as a show about ball culture in the 80s can be) because there's no other show out there for it to be a counterpoint to. In a dream world, everyone will watch Pose and love Pose (and god, there's so much to love even with the missteps and dull spots) and then we will get 10 more shows where they give trans creators and queer creators a budget and some freedom and we'll get the disparate experiences of the queer community in all of their many colors and all the places where they butt up against each other. Think of Pose as the Will and Grace or Queer as Folk opportunity for trans people. It is the foot in the door. edit: also, on a content based note: Damon is the most adorable thing and if Ricky ever hurts him imma be so loving pissed
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Jun 30, 2018 04:17
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I'm catching up, on episode 3 now, and show continues to deliver. Why the gently caress aren't more people talking about this??? wtf
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Jun 30, 2018 08:47
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oh my god that entire scene with Blanca and her sister, Blanca's flashback to cooking with her mother and then cooking with Damon had me in tears the entire time. this show is so great. the best part is how it respects that the mothers who are found or who find you are just as important as the ones who birth you. You do not have to squeeze a baby out of yourself to be a mother. edit: oh my god this is not the direction i expected the White People Storyline to go and I am into it edit2: THE WORST CLIFFHANGER IN THE HISTORY OF CLIFFHANGERS DC Murderverse fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 03:05
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Just started watching. Blanca is everything! Tell me she stays everything. Angel is great too though. Ubiquitous_ fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 05:39
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Category is... Season 2 renewed.
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Jul 13, 2018 03:22
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Yasssssssssss
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Jul 13, 2018 03:30
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i swear to god if anything happens to Papi imma be furious edit: ooooh shittttttt this is getting real real edit: Evan Peters you slimy little shitass fucker DC Murderverse fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Jul 16, 2018 |
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Jul 16, 2018 02:53
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Oh gently caress Stan so drat hard. Poor Elektra also. 
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Jul 16, 2018 03:49
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I'm a couple episodes behind but posting here so I can bookmark this thread. Show is incredible
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Jul 16, 2018 04:18
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