Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
chrisgt
Sep 6, 2011

:getin:
I'm currently working on restoring one car, two other rolling restorations, not to mention maintenance on half a dozen other daily drivers and antiques. I'll probably post pics of those projects in here sooner than later, but that isn't the topic at hand.

Earlier this week I drove past something I've wanted for a very long time, something I've never seen in person, something I know absolutely nothing about. Enter the Attex:



I bought it without knowing diddlysquat, literally, I have no idea how this thing works.
It has a single cylinder two stroke engine made by Rockford, it's seized and apparently hasn't run for 30 years. It has spent that time sitting outside full of water, which means the thing will probably float. The engine goes to a transmission with a CVT drive system that looks like it was ripped directly off a snowmobile. The transmission input spins as does one of the outputs, I really hope the transmission can be cleaned up and works. The chains that go between the six wheels are all rusty, all the idlers are rusty, all the wheelbearings are rusty. Those look pretty easy to repair. The tires are all flat and dry rotted, at least one has a massive hole, hopefully there's a cheap solution for that.

Based on some cursory research, it appears to be a first generation, the Attex 297 (which is the engine displacement), late 60's up to maybe 71. Has the early style transmission and single cylinder engine which don't have much information available. Fortunately it came with a spare engine that was allegedly rebuilt 30 years ago and never used. It cranks over and seems to have good compression. After I clean all the leaves and detritus out of the body and return the borrowed trailer, I might try to get the engine running, take a bunch of stuff apart, and make a big parts order my unemployed bank account won't be happy with. More to come tomorrow...

EDIT: I've never posted a thread before, why did this come up as poo poo POST?

chrisgt fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jun 7, 2018

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007

What have you assholes done now?
Hahahaha holy poo poo this is awesome.

e: It came up as poo poo POST because you didn't choose a thread tag. What do you want the thread tag to be?

Terrible Robot
Jul 2, 2010

FRIED CHICKEN
Slippery Tilde
I remember seeing ads for these in the backpages of old magazines I read as a kid. This is cool as hell.

Seat Safety Switch
May 27, 2008

MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.

Pillbug
I think I had a toy of this when I was a kid. No child's toy can compare to the cancerous joys of sanding fibreglass and laying down fresh gelcoat, though.

chrisgt
Sep 6, 2011

:getin:

Seat Safety Switch posted:

I think I had a toy of this when I was a kid. No child's toy can compare to the cancerous joys of sanding fibreglass and laying down fresh gelcoat, though.
I think it's actually ABS plastic, which means I should be able to paint it the original jovial yellow.

Adiabatic posted:

Hahahaha holy poo poo this is awesome.

e: It came up as poo poo POST because you didn't choose a thread tag. What do you want the thread tag to be?

The PROJECT tag would be cool, thanks!

Queen_Combat
Jan 15, 2011
If it's ABS get ready to do some acetone welding with repair panels. Still worth it :D

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





This is going to be amazing.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Ba

By

Sharkytm doot doo do doot do doo


Fallen Rib
In on the ground floor. I always loved these vehicles.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

Holy poo poo :allears:

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

Well that's awesome.

funeral home DJ
Apr 21, 2003


Pillbug
I hope you got some lakes nearby so you can test the amphibious-ness of this bad boy.

Boaz MacPhereson
Jul 11, 2006

Day 12045 Ht10hands 180lbs
No Name
No lumps No Bumps Full life Clean
Two good eyes No Busted Limbs
Piss OK Genitals intact
Multiple scars Heals fast
O NEGATIVE HI OCTANE
UNIVERSAL DONOR
Lone Road Warrior Rundown
on the Powder Lakes V8
No guzzoline No supplies
ISOLATE PSYCHOTIC
Keep muzzled...
gently caress yeah! I saw you post this goofy thing in the Alternative thread and was hoping you'd start a thread for it. I love these things.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.
I demand the Banana Splits theme in this thread.

Dagen H
Mar 19, 2009

Hogertrafikomlaggningen

InitialDave posted:

I demand the Banana Splits theme in this thread.

Dagen H posted:

If you're ancient like me, you remember the Banana Splits running around Kings Island in 6x6s.

https://youtu.be/XMl6HnhFFIA

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?
Another cross post from the alternative insanity thread, the reason a lot of us who grew up in the '90s were aware of these sorts of things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqEb2HZG8j0

Pile Of Garbage
May 28, 2007



Is this thing at all similar to the 4x4 amphibious thingo from Trailer Park Boys (Sorry this was the best clip I could find, I have no idea why it sounds like there was a typewriter in the background):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DG7eKYB0s4

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

cheese-cube posted:

Is this thing at all similar to the 4x4 amphibious thingo from Trailer Park Boys (Sorry this was the best clip I could find, I have no idea why it sounds like there was a typewriter in the background):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DG7eKYB0s4
IMCDb says it's an Argo Avenger https://www.imcdb.org/v779251.html

And yes, there are a bunch of vendors out there who have built very similar 6x6 and 8x8 amphibious vehicles.

Pile Of Garbage
May 28, 2007



There's an IMDB for cars? I knew about the one for firearms but :lol:, good to know!

chrisgt
Sep 6, 2011

:getin:
I'm not shirking on my on my duties to post updates, I got a lot done today just have to run to the airport to pick someone up. The airport is an hour and a half away. Maybe if I'm really motivated at midnight I'll make an effort post.

I made a lot of exciting progress and filled the garage with smoke :D

EDIT: it's midnight and i'm going to bed.

chrisgt fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Jun 8, 2018

iwentdoodie
Apr 29, 2005

🤗YOU'RE WELCOME🤗
Oh god you burned it down already

Queen_Combat
Jan 15, 2011

iwentdoodie posted:

Oh god you burned it down already

namlosh
Feb 11, 2014

I name this haircut "The Sad Rhino".
These are so cool, good luck getting it working, man!

Dagen H
Mar 19, 2009

Hogertrafikomlaggningen
Engine swap and startup?

chrisgt
Sep 6, 2011

:getin:
First thing I had to do was return the borrowed trailer. Five of us lifted/dragged the attex on the trailer since it wouldn't roll and the trailer had an expanded metal mesh deck, there was no way I could get it off alone (giggedy). First step was to do a rough clean to get most of the leaves and detritus out of the tub, then take a bunch of pictures so I know how things go back together.










I found remnants of what look like a CVT belt of the past and broken exhaust. I have a good theory on what may have eaten the CVT belt... more on that later



This chain was just chilling in the tub, they all looked like this, even the ones still connected to the driveline. Might explain why it didn't roll...


I then removed the battery, engine, and transmission along with cutting and removing all the chains. Guess what, that made it roll! Exciting, even though everything is crusty, the bearings do move. It will still probably be a fight to get all the axles and hubs apart. That's a problem for future chrisgt.
It's a lot lighter and easier to move like this.





The direction I take with this project really depends on whether I can get the stock driveline running or not, since it came with an engine that was allegedly rebuilt 30 years ago, I figured it would be pretty easy to get running. Decided to tackle it. First thing I did was dump a bunch of oil into the engine to make sure everything was lubed after a long hibernation, it went from having some compression to so much compression it was hard to pull it over with the pull start. Good sign.
My first obstacle was no spark, since I don't have a service manual for any of this I did some poking around with a volt meter and determined it either has a points ignition that isn't working or something else that's broken. Started taking bolts out to see what I could find.

poo poo, the wires all run behind the flywheel...


After fighting with it for a little while


The coil on the right has the two yellow wires coming off it and going directly out of the case. This is the charging coil and it goes to a rectifier/controller mounted to the frame.


I have only the minimum of faith that it still works...
The coil on the left is the magneto coil for the ignition, the points are toward the bottom. You can see I have the wires disconnected to figure out WTF is going on. The points were simply not making contact. I polished them with steel wool, lubed the breaker cam and oiled the cotton wick. The cotton wick is just under the condenser, you're supposed to soak these with a medium weight oil so they maintain lubrication of the breaker cam.

After reassembling the engine I was relieved to find that it had spark.
The carburetor is basically a scaled up weed eater or chainsaw carb. It uses a diaphragm style pump with a 360 degree float bowl (anyone who has worked on a small 2-storke knows what I'm talking about here, if you don't, you lucky bastard). It wasn't pumping fuel, but I got the engine to run after dumping some fuel down its throat. I'm uploading a video but it's taking forever since I'm on a 500/100 kbps DSL link, I live in the boonies.
After disassembling the carb from the blown engine I figured out where all the passages went so I knew where to apply air or vacuum to suck debris out and unstick the little flappy valves. I didn't want to disassemble the good carb if I didn't have to. I eventually got it running really well, due to my liberal application of preventive oiling, I completely smoked out the shop.


This post is getting long, so I'm gonna send it and have another post in a few minutes with the rest of the work I got done.

chrisgt
Sep 6, 2011

:getin:
I didn't post the carburetor in the last post, so for those of you who know anything about such things, here it is.




I can't find any markings of model numbers or anything. Kinda frustrating.

Also, if anyone has more information, here's the tags and markings off the engine:




And the transmission:



Anyway, after getting the engine running I went outside to clean the the tub out. Rolled it to the edge of the lawn, tipped it on its side, and sprayed it off with my harbor freight pressure washer. Side note, don't buy the small HF pressure washer. Someone gave it to me, it's ok for cleaning stuff like engines, floor mats, and the occasional attex, but meh.


The shady side plus being wet makes it look pretty good, don't be fooled. The color is really faded. I'm gonna have to figure out how to prep/paint it. I want it to be the original jovial Lamborghini yellow.


I then went back inside to poke at the transmission.


It's a very interesting unit, the CVT belt inputs power from the engine and the output is the gears on both sides. On each side it has it has those round things with discs on them. Inside the round things are (I think) a planetary gearset, and the discs are for brakes. From what I can gather by playing with it, braking the outer disk locks the output to the wheels causing the inner disk to rotate with no power transmitted to that side. Locking the inner disk is like locking the bands in an automatic transmission and causes power output to the wheels. I'm pretty sure all that's inside the transmission is the forward/reverse gearing which is controlled by the lever on the top. There may be more to it, I dunno yet...
The brakes are controlled by the two rods you can see sticking out trying to impale me. The brakes are seized up cock stiff.

I mostly work on foreign cars at my place, so my collection of SAE tools is horrible. As such, I didn't have a 3/8" hex key, I welded a nut to the head of a bolt and got the fill plug out.


Although the transmission turns freely and the gearing works, I don't like what I see down the hole...


Pulled the drain plug and.. This is what came out


At the very least I'd like to find an exploded parts diagram of what's inside the transmission. I'd like to take it apart, clean everything up and replace the bearings.
Oh also I forgot this earlier, but I need to replace all the clutch springs on the engine. One of the three were broken, and all there were broken on the blown engine. Maybe what caused the CVT belt failure.


I'm sure it's all snowmobile parts, it would be cool if someone knows what I need to buy to rebuild this.

Since I didn't want to start blindly taking the transmission apart, I removed it from the cradle and decided to attack the seized up brakes.
I don't have a great picture of the units yet, I'm gonna poke at those today, but they're basically a brake caliper that accepts the two discs, when the level is pushed one way one brakes, when it's pushed the other, the other brakes. They float on slides much like a car brake caliper.

The side where apparently most of the gearoil leaked out of the transmission slid freely and took minimal abuse to disassemble. There are plugs in the transmission cradle that come out and inside them are the ends of the slide pins. The pins are threaded so they can be pulled out. It took a bit of head scratching to figure out what was going on here. This is how they're supposed to come out.


Some took a little heat


And one would not budge so I had to chew away at the back side with the die grinder then apply my favourite tool, the pneumatic chisel.


Once I got the pin far enough I could grab the other end with visegrips and twist, it came out fighting.

The brake calipers themselves are completely stuck and I haven't the faintest idea what's inside them. I had them soaking over night in ATF/acetone, but a cursory poke this morning showed they're still frozen. I'm not entirely sure where to go from here, probably start lighting them on fire with the mapp gas torch. Side note, I finally ran out of my pre-2008 stock of mapp gas, the new poo poo sucks :(

That's it for now, have a cat

chrisgt fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Jun 8, 2018

chrisgt
Sep 6, 2011

:getin:

Dagen H posted:

Engine swap and startup?

No swap, we're a ways from that, but yep, startup.
This is starting up after being full of oil over night and having just dumped gas down its hole. After I got the carb happy it started up and idled pretty decent. A bit grumbly, but it likely needs to be tuned in. I can't really do that till I have it going/stopping again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of8FjHRTFr4

funeral home DJ
Apr 21, 2003


Pillbug
I’m impressed as hell that you got an engine of an unknown age to fire up so quickly. :stare:

Also these things are deceptively simple, for some reason I thought they’d have hydrostatic transmissions but a CVT makes sense in a way. I was wondering why the parts websites for these things advertised “transmission pucks” and I’m guessing it has to do with locking the inner bands and transmitting power as you said.

It’s cool as hell in an archaic way.

nmfree
Aug 15, 2001

The Greater Goon: Breaking Hearts and Chains since 2006

chrisgt posted:

I'm gonna have to figure out how to prep/paint it. I want it to be the original jovial Lamborghini yellow.
:getin:

giundy
Dec 10, 2005
I'm a little disappointed you cut the chains. Couldn't you have used a chain breaker and soaked them in your ATF mix? Are there a common motorcycle size? Custom length chains seem like they could get pricey.

Dagen H
Mar 19, 2009

Hogertrafikomlaggningen

giundy posted:

Custom length chains seem like they could get pricey.

You can buy roller chain in bulk and cut to length.

iwentdoodie
Apr 29, 2005

🤗YOU'RE WELCOME🤗

giundy posted:

I'm a little disappointed you cut the chains. Couldn't you have used a chain breaker and soaked them in your ATF mix? Are there a common motorcycle size? Custom length chains seem like they could get pricey.

As said, a custom length chain is cheap. Especially for something like this where you could get away with a roller, not needing an o ring or better chain.

Also once a chain is stuck tight or rusty, esp a drive chain, saving it is pointless. It's literally just pushing the moment of failure a small step ahead and guarantees it will happen at the worst moment.

funeral home DJ
Apr 21, 2003


Pillbug
I’m betting that 2-smoke probably puts out a beefy 25 ft-lb of torque at best and an el-cheapo chain is more than enough to survive whatever the gearbox multiplies.

That kind of brings up another thing: how are these on climbing hills? All the literature, videos, whatever I’ve seen on these they’re mostly used on flat surfaces and in water.

chrisgt
Sep 6, 2011

:getin:

giundy posted:

I'm a little disappointed you cut the chains. Couldn't you have used a chain breaker and soaked them in your ATF mix? Are there a common motorcycle size? Custom length chains seem like they could get pricey.

Ripoff posted:

I’m betting that 2-smoke probably puts out a beefy 25 ft-lb of torque at best and an el-cheapo chain is more than enough to survive whatever the gearbox multiplies.

That kind of brings up another thing: how are these on climbing hills? All the literature, videos, whatever I’ve seen on these they’re mostly used on flat surfaces and in water.


I dunno about climbing hills, but it has a CVT, I'm sure it's fine. Also, this is the correct answer.

iwentdoodie posted:

As said, a custom length chain is cheap. Especially for something like this where you could get away with a roller, not needing an o ring or better chain.

Also once a chain is stuck tight or rusty, esp a drive chain, saving it is pointless. It's literally just pushing the moment of failure a small step ahead and guarantees it will happen at the worst moment.

It looks to be a 420 pitch chain, any motorcycle shop sells it for cheap along with half a dozen master links. There's literally no reason to save a chain that I can buy for around $1.50/foot, especially after it's been rusty and will then stretch and ruin the sprockets, which should be in ok shape after I sandblast them.
Also only one side still had chains, the other side had one half on, one 1/4 on, and one shreded itself by the looks of it. Put a nice hole in the tub while flying apart. Since a failing chain can put a hole in the thing and sink it, probably a bad idea to try and save $30 or $40...

chrisgt
Sep 6, 2011

:getin:
I only had about four hours to work on the attex today, but I did make some progress. As promised, pictures of the steering brake calipers.


There are brake pads in the outer ends, you can see the carrier on one end has come out of its socket, they're supposed to do that. When the lever moves forward and backward the brake pads in the center move with it, braking either one side or the other.

Bottom view


These are the end caps with the stationary brake pads

The screws on the side are for adjusting the height of the pad. I'm assuming in final installation I'll want to adjust the outer pads to just barely clear the outsides of the discs so the control levers don't have to move the carrier as far to engage.


The center sections were frozen solid, but there's nothing like an ATF bath to free the mind.

This is what the center section looks like disassembled and cleaned up.


I gave this treatment to both brakes, packed them with good synthetic marine wheelbearing grease, and reassembled.
I need to order pads, that's on my list.


I also decided to give the transmission a good flush. I filled it with diesel and gave it a good shake, then drained it. Repeated that procedure a few times until it came out clean, now it's sitting full of ATF, well, whatever isn't leaking out... The input from the torque converter and the output to the wheels on that side are concentric shafts, the seal between the concentric shafts leaks like a sieve. Fortunately it looks like all I have to do is pull the end support bearings off (which need replacing anyway), remove a circlip, and remove the planetary set. I want to take those apart and grease them anyway. Hopefully the seal in there is a standard size I can buy out of a catalog. The transmission actually looks pretty nice inside the drain/fill holes now, looks like what I thought was rust was just dirt that washed off with some flushing.

Since the driveline is getting squared away, it's time to start turning my attention to the vehicle itself. There's a hole in the bottom of the tub, maybe a crack, and an old repair that looks dodgy. I need to replace all the chain idler bearings and all 6 wheelbearings, along with finding wheels that fit. It uses some tiny 3-lug flange I can't find anything for. I might end up just converting to hubs and axles out of a more modern model. This would let me bolt up whatever ATV wheels I want and let me just buy the bearings and parts for the thing, instead of patching parts together from here and yonder, still not entirely sure.

Since I'm about to bring the thing inside the garage and my toyota needed an oil change anyway, I decided to waste some time and do that today since the toyota won't fit in the garage at the same time as the attex.


The stupid thing barely fits anyway, it clears the door by about an inch, I have to make sure the power antenna is down.

Whomever neglected to put a oil filter access hatch in the skid plate is a real loser

Not only that, the oil filter drains onto the engine cradle and makes a mess, it's still better than the 10 subarus I've owned over the years...
Oh, so there's some law of physics I've never seen explained anywhere, I don't quite understand. Why is it that grease joints on the rear driveshaft always point straight up when I go to service them? The front driveshaft that can be easily rotated by hand when in 2wd always has the grease fittings pointing down... Magic.


Anyway, with that stupid thing out of the way it was time to build a stand to put the attex on. If it isn't abundantly obvious by looking at the following pictures, I'm not a carpenter. I make Grover look like a master at the craft. I don't try to be bad at it.... Anyway, I built this:


Fortunately I realized that might not be stable, so I added some supports.


Remember, I'm not a carpenter, I don't have a whole ton of good scrap wood laying around, I don't have patience with wood. I thought this would work, anyone with half a brain is face palming right now.

My next obstacle was raising the attex 18 inches up onto the the death trap.

Both the C-clamp from harbor freight and the wiring are OSHIT approved, don't worry. That C-clap was actually designed to lift 250 or 300lbs when used in that configuration, I'm sure of it.




If you look carefully, you may notice there's a support along the bottom and a diagonal support on both sides, this had to happen while the thing was hanging over my head from said C-clamp. I'm a determined idiot.

I need to upload more pictures of my cat, so it's time for throwback friday; this cat died several years ago. His name was Tux, I'm still sad about losing him.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Might want some evaporust for the parts you're trying to save.

Seat Safety Switch
May 27, 2008

MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.

Pillbug
The cheap-rear end paint rescue solution to paint that looks ok when wet and poo poo otherwise is to polish it. See if it cleans up with a little polish.

RIP Tux.

DJ Commie
Feb 29, 2004

Stupid drivers always breaking car, Gronk fix car...
I have a whole pile of 500 gal/hr pumps with the sealed cartridge if you want. I even have a yellow one!

chrisgt
Sep 6, 2011

:getin:

Ripoff posted:

I’m impressed as hell that you got an engine of an unknown age to fire up so quickly. :stare:

Also these things are deceptively simple, for some reason I thought they’d have hydrostatic transmissions but a CVT makes sense in a way. I was wondering why the parts websites for these things advertised “transmission pucks” and I’m guessing it has to do with locking the inner bands and transmitting power as you said.

It’s cool as hell in an archaic way.

I'm not sure if even modern hydrostatic technology would be good for this, you'd really need a variable displacement pump, those are turbo expensive. Hydrostatic transmissions work great for vehicles like smaller tractors and lawn mowers that need a lot of torque but don't need to go very fast. Unless equipped with a variable geometry pump, it's analogous to having a torque converter and a single gear, top speed is limited (I understand that's not exactly how a hydrostatic system works). I've used some hydrostatic drive tractors that have a couple gears, too. Often just low range and high range that can't be shifted while moving, like a truck transfer case. Works great for a tractor, pick a gear that suits the work at hand, but kinda crappy topology for an ATV.
The CVT allows things to have good low end but wind way up in the high end, I think these things do like 35mph on land and need all the wheel speed they can get to move in the water. Mine has an outboard mount, though :getin:

DJ Commie posted:

I have a whole pile of 500 gal/hr pumps with the sealed cartridge if you want. I even have a yellow one!

OOOOhhhh, yea, that could be exciting. I was thinking I should probably have a bilge pump of some sort!

funeral home DJ
Apr 21, 2003


Pillbug

chrisgt posted:

The CVT allows things to have good low end but wind way up in the high end, I think these things do like 35mph on land and need all the wheel speed they can get to move in the water. Mine has an outboard mount, though :getin:

So uh who’s got a Mercury 150 Motor we can slap a 9.9 sticker on?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

DJ Commie
Feb 29, 2004

Stupid drivers always breaking car, Gronk fix car...

chrisgt posted:


OOOOhhhh, yea, that could be exciting. I was thinking I should probably have a bilge pump of some sort!

Send me a PM or djcommie at gee male

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply