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Jormungand is bae. Basic attack can eventually spawn a huge AOE pull, meanwhile you fill the whole screen with an aoe that increases all acid damage. Just completely shreds everything while providing survivability. I don't understand how snakes/ravens/etc skills that hit a couple random things can ever be good. I also want to like pegasus traps, but things generally just don't run into them. Pegasus water spout, with the passive that makes allies randomly spawn water spouts is good though
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Oct 20, 2022 19:06
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pegasus is a stronger early-game unit (black feather has better enhances and upgrades than cerberus' shot) and has stronger single target damage once built because the steel feather mastery that makes all its shots giant is absurd. she can also shred dark resist, which is important because diablo and steno are dark damage to begin with and cerberus usually builds dark in the end. a built cerberus is an aoe attacker because bombardment is her only skill which has good enhances and masteries; hell bullet has mostly worthless attack speed upgrades instead of damage and multiproj, shockwave is just bad, hell thorn has pretty solid numbers but worthless enhances, explosive bullet is Fine. but bombardment with the dark damage upgrade is really good, it's basically her entire attacking presence.
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Oct 20, 2022 19:09
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Her passive skills are a big upgrade to Hell Bullet though. I’ve never not gone this route so I don’t know about the opportunity cost vs other skills, but Three Heads fires extra bullets and then has an enhancement that increases power by 100%. And then the Lightweight passive increases Hell Bullet power by 35%.
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Oct 20, 2022 19:22
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Reiterpallasch posted:a built cerberus is an aoe attacker because bombardment is her only skill which has good enhances and masteries; hell bullet has mostly worthless attack speed upgrades instead of damage and multiproj What? Hell Bullet has several +damage enhancements and a +2 projectiles enhancement (which reduces ammo, not damage). And it has two supporting damage passives (Three Heads and Lightweight), both of which have multiple enhancements that increase its damage further. It's easily the strongest single-target damage skill in the game, and it also does better AOE damage than Dark Feathers since it penetrates 3 enemies innately and one of its damage enhancements ups that to 6, while ricochet is just rear end. EDIT: Also I usually take the other mastery for Bombardment since the lightning damage triggers Titan to cast Thunderbolts and Diablo's 2x flame damage passive halves dark damage. It's still absurdly good. Zurai fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Oct 20, 2022 |
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Oct 20, 2022 20:17
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i'm going to go out and test this out because i haven't done hell bullets since the patch, but just at face value there is no way hell bullet--or steel feather--is competitive with chain lightning or death command for single-target, both of those can rip through a 150k trial endboss in seconds (i'm not a big fan of fire diablo because dark diablo has that explosion mastery on zone of fear which clears the whole screen every time you push it, but i'm reasonably certain it's bugged right now so maybe it'd be a bad idea to crutch on it)
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Oct 20, 2022 21:12
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I mean, I've only gotten to Very Hard so far, so maybe things change later on. But of the heroes I've played around with, Cerberus just seems way better than Pegasus at single-target DPS and area DPS. Also, I'm very curious how Chain Lightning is a high single-target DPS ability. I'll have to switch things up next time I play Titan to see.
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Oct 20, 2022 22:22
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supercurrent's got a mastery that causes it to bounce back on the previous target if there's nowhere it can chain to, and it has a mastery itself which causes the first target to take a pulse of dark damage every time it bounces. if your team's aoe is good enough to clear out all the trash anywhere near the peace acolyte you get like 25k damage per cast iirc. i'm not honestly a big fan of building into this because it's a real late bloomer interaction, lightning wave + thunderbolt is just so much better at aoe clear, and you can usually solve peace acolyte by throwing your team revive at her, but it does make the funny big number show up on your screen. they also posted patch notes for the upcoming patch and it seems like peace acolyte is going to get a pretty significant haircut off her health, so single-target might just be less valuable going forward.
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Oct 20, 2022 22:30
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Reiterpallasch posted:(i'm not a big fan of fire diablo because dark diablo has that explosion mastery on zone of fear which clears the whole screen every time you push it, but i'm reasonably certain it's bugged right now so maybe it'd be a bad idea to crutch on it) build 148 patchnotes posted:An issue where Diablo ~ Nightmare's range attack inflicts Fear will be fixed. ah, poo poo
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Oct 21, 2022 18:28
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At this point I'm pretty sure Diablo and Jorm are the weakest (pending that bugfix) but they're also my favorites. The "apocalypse doesn't end" passive for Diablo in particular still doesn't make it a great skill but it's tremendously satisfying.
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Oct 21, 2022 21:10
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Irony.or.Death posted:At this point I'm pretty sure Diablo and Jorm are the weakest (pending that bugfix) but they're also my favorites. The "apocalypse doesn't end" passive for Diablo in particular still doesn't make it a great skill but it's tremendously satisfying. Jorm is so strong with hunt triggering on spore and bonus shots on spore. It turns your finger into a black hole
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Oct 22, 2022 01:43
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Jorm doesn't really have the dps to be a first priority but she's got incredible utility starting in the mid game between the way hunt bunches enemies for others to aoe and her resistance shredding + team healing. Maybe I just always build her for support and she's actually good for dps too, idk.
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Oct 22, 2022 04:34
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Irony.or.Death posted:At this point I'm pretty sure Diablo and Jorm are the weakest (pending that bugfix) but they're also my favorites. The "apocalypse doesn't end" passive for Diablo in particular still doesn't make it a great skill but it's tremendously satisfying. Prefaced by the fact that I'm still working my way through Very Hard and thus things might change at higher difficulties: Apocalypse is pretty good with the right investments, IMO. It's not Thunder Wave + Thunderbolt + the thunder mastery passive, but with the always-on passive, the "fear explodes" passive from the fear aura active skill mastery, and focusing its enhancements on damage, range, and rate of fire, it does a pretty solid job of thinning out big waves. Fully upgraded the right way, there's like 10 fireballs on the screen at any given time and they're all pretty sizable. And Diablo likes +range items anyway because all her poo poo is AOE. I feel like Jormungandr is the weakest starting character. She's the only one I've almost lost on the 2nd stage with (didn't get a 2nd character in the first stage and I got offered her shield and two passives on the first dark origin, then the 2nd stage was all elites). Her basic attack has really low ammo and not-great damage early on, plus it's the hardest to aim (for me anyway). But it scales really well, and both Hunt and Acid Zone or whatever are pretty good. I still think Pegasus is the weakest character. Or maybe Kraken -- I've never had a Kraken go off. It just seems like nobody else really cares about anything she does except for the Wet debuffs, and it's hard to build a team that doesn't get at least partly nerfed by Wet since it weakens acid damage as well as fire. Maybe it's just a self-fulfilling prophecy since I'm not sure how to build her and thus I don't take her often, meaning I get fewer chances to experiment with her, etc.
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Oct 22, 2022 05:06
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right now until when 148 releases diablo is the strongest character in the game and IMO it's not even close--the explosions from the feared-enemies-explode mastery of Zone of Fear also apply fear so with a nominal amount of range or a high enough enemy density, you clear the entire screen by casting it anywhere on top of mobs.
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Oct 22, 2022 05:14
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Yeah, I'm ignoring that interaction in my evaluation since it's getting fixed. I think she's still pretty strong without that, though.
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Oct 22, 2022 05:15
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Kraken is my least used by far since she really only has synergy with Titan. Tentacle Strike and Tsunami are my favorite active skills for her but obviously don’t much have experience with her since I never pick her unless Titan main or I have like one spot left and desperate for anyone as I am running out of days. She seems to get a TON of stun type enhancements which is kinda cool. But it’s hard to get a feel of a character until you can run them as a Main and I don’t have her unlocked. Then yea Pegasus is also meh but I am running Dark often enough and or she’s fine as a last choice where you usually don’t have time to fully develop.
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Oct 22, 2022 17:05
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Hand Row posted:Kraken is my least used by far since she really only has synergy with Titan. Tentacle Strike and Tsunami are my favorite active skills for her but obviously don’t much have experience with her since I never pick her unless Titan main or I have like one spot left and desperate for anyone as I am running out of days. She has synergy with anyone that can add cold damage as well. But she has anti-synergies with anyone that has fire or poison, which is a significant chunk of the cast. Kraken + titan + pegasus can be good. Pegasus has synergies with both of them.
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Oct 22, 2022 17:16
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Also Pegasus needs to be fully developed to really turn on. Then you get shenanigans like water spouts two deep across the whole map while shredding dark resist.
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Oct 22, 2022 17:17
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Oh not saying bad or anything just not as good or strong synergy wise. Like even Pegasus barely adds any cold damage, water spout is a a dark damage skill except for its master adds some additional cold. Water spout is definitely my favorite skill of hers though especially when you add that passive where everyone shoots feathers and can spawn them. Btw found this google doc link and thank god for it. Has all the skills. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1mcLKQ-mGvGpggZu_QHEHYnJfrzfAkMTM1ds_YyZrxfQ/htmlview
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Oct 22, 2022 17:48
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i believe wet was changed in this current patch to not debuff fire/acid damage, so at least kraken no longer antisynergizes with half the cast
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Oct 22, 2022 21:36
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Looks like they either overbuffed Kraken or Diablo like bugs for her. Steno seems crazy strong now too. I used Dead Corruption and Dark Whisper with me even not being able to main her and she wrecked poo poo. Hand Row fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Oct 23, 2022 |
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Oct 23, 2022 03:05
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kraken, steno, and titan seem like the three strongest "mains" to have right now, yeah. medusa is a really upgrade-efficient single target solution, diablo is probably the best inferno priest holder out of the box (loses a lot of value if you have titan though because of the fire mastery for thunderbolt), cerberus brings a lot of high-value support even if her offenses have kind of fallen behind in the latest wave of power creep. pegasus is in a pretty bad spot right now, having missed out on buffs twice in a row, and personally it's hard to imagine using jorm at all right now.
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Oct 23, 2022 21:10
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I can only speak to up to Hard (just did my last Hard clear with the initial five Apostles), but I think Jormungand is probably one of the best characters to have as your Apostle. Build Hunt/Acid Splash/Acid Monkfish/Corrosive Aura/Regeneration, pick up the phys shred on Acid Splash and the decreased damage cycle on Corrosive Aura, stack range on Hunt and grab the Acid Monkfish passive that gives Hunt activations on Acid Spore, and get the "larger range + DoT" and "stronger pull" ultimates for Acid Spore and Hunt. Then you just repeatedly tap the very edge of the screen to drag everything into your resistance-debuffing hellpit, with the option to tap slightly up or slightly down to catch enemies trying to move in from the corners. Even major bosses will be slowed down pretty badly by constantly aiming behind them to drag them back with Hunt, while normal enemies basically can't move at all. Plus, the event (Misty Forest, I think?) where you can choose to "Devour" for -20% HP and doubled healing and barrier effects seems to be one of the more common ones, and that's very strong with Regeneration. She also has strong synergy with the Cerebus + Diablo Fire build (gets additional AOE and damage from Cerberus and groups enemies for Diablo's Blaze, plus phys resist shred for Cerberus), as well as Medusa (physical resist shred for her arrow build) and Titan and Diablo (clustering for Call of Thunder from Titan and Dead and Corruption from Steno, plus Titan has Stiffen to help keep people in the hellpit and Steno boosts Jormungand's DoT effects). Only Kraken's left out, mostly because Jorm doesn't let enemies get close enough for Tsunami and Jorm doesn't shred Cold. Jorm's start is a bit weak if you can't get the "-30% power and +2 bonus shots" effect on Acid Spore right off, but once you do you're gold. It's just a shame she's way worse in AI hands, because they don't know how to aim her shots to maximize the effect of Hunt. Maybe enemies move faster on higher difficulties and she gets worse? Even then it has enough range to repeatedly yank melee enemies off of you while still hitting ranged enemies, so I have a hard time imagining her ever being bad.
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Oct 24, 2022 01:58
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Yeah, I guess I should have specified: Jorm is indeed pretty absurd under human control and once built, but both of those caveats are kind of dealbreakers for me. I have the world fragment shop unlocked and therefore the autobattle upgrade (which as you pointed out just makes her totally unusuable), and I'd probably call her start the worst in the game now that Steno's been buffed even with manual control.
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Oct 24, 2022 02:50
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Reiterpallasch posted:Yeah, I guess I should have specified: Jorm is indeed pretty absurd under human control and once built, but both of those caveats are kind of dealbreakers for me. I have the world fragment shop unlocked and therefore the autobattle upgrade (which as you pointed out just makes her totally unusuable), and I'd probably call her start the worst in the game now that Steno's been buffed even with manual control. Oh, okay, I can see that.  She's still the best support for physical damage dealers (even if that's currently just Medusa or the bad builds for Cerberus or Kraken), and she's one of the better fifth slot characters for Regeneration. It's her or Pegasus, really. Which is fitting, since Jorm and Pegasus are the two most dependent on full builds to be useful otherwise.
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Oct 24, 2022 04:48
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Can definitely see the fall off of physical builds as I have gotten to VH/trials. It’s still fine but Steno and non physical Kraken are ez mode. Since I don’t have them unlocked yet I use Titan and I know if I get Steno or Kraken right as my second I can turn my brain off. I just got to get one of them sooner than later and I am good. With Steno I take Dark Whisper with the lightning master skill and it makes Call of Thunder go wild. Dead and Corruption meanwhile is the best skill in the game. If I get Steno early I definitely take anyone that boosts it, most notably a super poison focused Medusa who as a bonus can take at least one defensive passive since she really just needs Corrupted Blood. I tend to make Kraken full support if I already have Steno with Tsunami and Wave Orb. I make her more DPS focused if no Steno yet by taking Tentacle Strike instead of Tsunami.
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Oct 25, 2022 22:34
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I have 15 world fragments and nothing to spend them on. How do I unlock that shop?
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Oct 25, 2022 23:41
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Man. Y'all weren't kidding when you said this game was hornier than dungeon maker.
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Oct 25, 2022 23:46
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leper khan posted:I have 15 world fragments and nothing to spend them on. How do I unlock that shop? Max Vast Abyss and it’s a lot. The final upgrade is 120 stones for example. But you can spend world fragments on auto and it’s upgrades, plus up to 1.5 speed.
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Oct 26, 2022 02:38
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kraken is kind of too good now with water bomb mastery and brincicle, and i can't even see any kind of obvious bug like diablo had going on, it's just all her numbers are like twice as high as they need to be. 4-protect-1 setups with kraken doing almost all of the actual damage are totally viable, even on trials 13 (or 15 if you enjoy playing russian roulette with your builds). just start with kraken, grab/mobilize a second character fast, and put all your levelups into that character to force enhances onto kraken's basic shot, then grab water bomb mastery and afk the rest of the game.
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Oct 26, 2022 03:04
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The latest update really puts in perspective of not expanding your team. They added a damage recap by character after each battle that’s really helpful. I basically never go to 5 characters now. Generally it’s try to max 3 and then get the 4th late with someone who can add team value with a base passive. If I get a power duo I won’t even bother with the third until the duo is fully synergized. Like the aforementioned Kraken and Peg are absurd together once you get Cold Waterspout. Kraken/Titan, Titan/Steno, and Steno/Medusa are other duos I love. Also they added a codex so you can actually see everyone’s skills now. That’s my favorite part of Gamecoaster they really push updates out that enhance or expand their games greatly. I think the game is doing well so hopefully they keep it up. Hand Row fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Oct 29, 2022 |
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Oct 29, 2022 16:52
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Is the new one much simpler than dungeon maker? I liked it a lot at first but got overwhelmed with mechanics around the time they added prisoners and gave up on it.
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Oct 29, 2022 22:30
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Hand Row posted:The latest update really puts in perspective of not expanding your team. They added a damage recap by character after each battle that’s really helpful. I basically never go to 5 characters now. Generally it’s try to max 3 and then get the 4th late with someone who can add team value with a base passive. If I get a power duo I won’t even bother with the third until the duo is fully synergized. Like the aforementioned Kraken and Peg are absurd together once you get Cold Waterspout. Kraken/Titan, Titan/Steno, and Steno/Medusa are other duos I love. Haven't seen that screen yet, but getting early picks is important to get characters levelled up. Need multiple finds of a character to build them up.. I'm running in torment 8+ or whatever it's called. I wouldn't imagine sleeping on filling another slot with a key monster.
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Oct 30, 2022 02:20
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leper khan posted:Haven't seen that screen yet, but getting early picks is important to get characters levelled up. Need multiple finds of a character to build them up.. I would rather have my core three with a lot of master skills over four with few if any. And the fifth monster is a real dud to get imo. Or do you do builds where you have a key monster take just one passive and you move on IE Medusa and Corrupt Blood? But I also tend to utilize Titan and or Kraken who greatly benefit by other monsters obtaining their element damage through master skills. Think Steno with lightning Dark Whisper that causes thunderbolts a chance to proc. I should probably track how many Origins I roughly get every game but I would guess 24-25 roughly. One to two master skills for the core three and three passives for them doesn’t leave you much, maybe three skills on your fourth. My fourth character doesn’t get the upgrades true by taking them late, but that’s why I target fourths who have nice passives to complement the core three. I do tend to go for stones instead of origins in world three so maybe my guess is way off.
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Oct 30, 2022 03:42
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Hand Row posted:I would rather have my core three with a lot of master skills over four with few if any. And the fifth monster is a real dud to get imo. Or do you do builds where you have a key monster take just one passive and you move on IE Medusa and Corrupt Blood? But I also tend to utilize Titan and or Kraken who greatly benefit by other monsters obtaining their element damage through master skills. Think Steno with lightning Dark Whisper that causes thunderbolts a chance to proc. I've been maining jorm. Only thing that matters for her is maxing out hunt with strong pull and getting the passive with the acid splash procs hunt. From there I want either kraken or titan for damage. All the others are utility. Steno has the passive that will get things killed at 30%. Cerberus has increased range which makes the pull on hunt better. The others boost resistances. Then I accumulate as much aoe as I can and everything disappears into hunt triggered from acid splash. Most of the time I can get to the end with every monster maxed out, except maybe the last one.
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Oct 30, 2022 06:10
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This is probably an especially stupid question given the advanced strategizing going on, but what does AP do? The game isn't great about explaining what everything does (the translation quality doesn't help but mostly it's just not interested in handholding you, which I appreciate except for this one part)
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Oct 30, 2022 06:50
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MikeSevigny posted:This is probably an especially stupid question given the advanced strategizing going on, but what does AP do? The game isn't great about explaining what everything does (the translation quality doesn't help but mostly it's just not interested in handholding you, which I appreciate except for this one part) AP increases the damage of some skills. If you click on a monster in some windows you can then click on their skills and see the formulas. In general the ones that seem like spell casters use AP (titan, Diablo, ..). Pegasus first skill uses both; others are atk.
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Oct 30, 2022 06:54
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leper khan posted:I've been maining jorm. Only thing that matters for her is maxing out hunt with strong pull and getting the passive with the acid splash procs hunt. From there I want either kraken or titan for damage. All the others are utility. Steno has the passive that will get things killed at 30%. Cerberus has increased range which makes the pull on hunt better. The others boost resistances. Then I accumulate as much aoe as I can and everything disappears into hunt triggered from acid splash. Are you taking origins no matter what over crystals or have a lot in the origin % boost? Because a party of 4 with two skills mastered would require 10 origins per world and I definitely don’t get that. I do see how using Jorm though would make me want to go big party though. Titan is my primary main right now so I put everything to making her annihilate.
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Oct 30, 2022 13:00
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Virtue posted:Is the new one much simpler than dungeon maker? I liked it a lot at first but got overwhelmed with mechanics around the time they added prisoners and gave up on it. Right now I would definitely say it’s vastly simpler. You have way less to manage as you don’t have any army of monsters rooms and traps to organize nor have to remember what of those you need for recipes. You only manage up to 5 monsters and you always get a choice of three options that never feel overwhelming. The only part that was obtuse to me was that passive skills would look blah but then could have an upgrade thats pretty different that would make it incredible. But a passive skill can only have one upgrade out of three choices and they have added the ability to see what those possible upgrades are before you choose the original passive. So if there’s a negative it’s the game actually is simple as you run the same three maps over and over, but my lizard brain doesn’t mind it. Even once you have the perfect build plan in your brain, it might not always work out that way in your choices so you have to adapt.
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Oct 30, 2022 13:45
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Hand Row posted:Are you taking origins no matter what over crystals or have a lot in the origin % boost? Because a party of 4 with two skills mastered would require 10 origins per world and I definitely don’t get that. I do see how using Jorm though would make me want to go big party though. Titan is my primary main right now so I put everything to making her annihilate. Yeah, I'll often pick up the origins over some of the other stuff especially early. Unless the other thing has the flare on it, and sometimes even then. In third world they also start offering double upgrades, so I pick up all of the origins offered there. For farming stones, souls, and crystals. It's not clear what the optimal strategy is. It's definitely not aiming for an all-clear.
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Oct 30, 2022 14:03
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| # ? Apr 18, 2024 09:16 |
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I think it kinda is because you’ll want the blood and other stuff anyway and there’s so many tiers to clear for each character. I just played some Jorm on a low tier and it was pretty fun, thank for that. Master skills didn’t matter to me with her so I did go wide. But looking back on it I think my core three could have did an all clear easily. World 3 gives so many stones it’s not hard to hit the cap and then go back to working on your team. I highly recommend trying Jorm, poison Medusa and Steno if you haven’t. The Hunt drags them into Poison Fog, Splash but more importantly Dead and Corruption. Nothing can survive that. And if somehow it does, Petrification Eye is a single target destroyer. Building a fourth like Cerebus is just overkill so might as well as max your stones first. But I dunno I need to put some blood into Jorm first. But wouldn’t surprise me since people are soloing t20 with Medusa.
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Oct 30, 2022 16:53
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