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TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


gradenko_2000 posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO0-47to8-E

This actually works shockingly well, and you don't even need a pump or have to worry about a pump failing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMFBAklURCo#t=522s

Swimming pool cooling, while on vacation at the Maldives resort from Hitman 2, because of course. (English subtitles available)

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Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


The Grumbles posted:

I'm aware of how much stuff cost back in the day - I remember 10 years ago building a really good PC for £400-£500 or so - but I guess I'm learning that my idea of what constitutes a rich kid is vastly different from a lot of people in this thread. It was cheaper back then but still felt like a lot of money back then, I could only really afford it because I was working full time but was still a teenager and hadn't moved out of home yet. Maybe it's a country thing?

Sure, but in that case it's not building a PC that's for rich people. It's computers in general. But even back in the 80s you had the IBM PCs that cost as much as a new car, and kit computers that were totally affordable to a pretty normal working class family.

Do you think it was something like you knew people who had rich kid computers, so you weren't as satisfied with the cheap thrills end of the market?

Koskun
Apr 20, 2004
I worship the ground NinjaPablo walks on

I'll be 44 this year. I built my first computer when I was about 20. It was a duron (667 mhz), with everything but the OS. I remember it being around $600-650.

I built a first gen Ryzen system about 5 years ago I think it was. Everything but the OS and case. It was $725. That was with a 750 watt ps and a 1060 vid card (before the bitcoin bubble).

I remember when I was in 2nd or 3rd grade my Dad bought a computer, as he needed it for work. 486 maybe. I remember it was a grand give or take (he was able to write it off so that helped).


If you shopped and didn't have a need/want for the top of the line setup, prices have been really steady outside of when they first started getting into homes, and not counting the shortage globally now of components of course.

well why not
Feb 9, 2009





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvVafMi0l68

Linus is pumping Right To Repair and has put in 20k from the OnlyFans joke to the cause here:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/lets-get-right-to-repair-passed

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/HardwareUnboxed/status/1385035841005780992
https://twitter.com/HardwareUnboxed/status/1385051271451660290

It doesn't seem like this is really a dispute between HWU and GamersNexus, so much as a dispute with the audience/community.

I can understand where GN is coming from: running and testing the CPUs under "Intel guidance" means the CPU will actually meet its TDP rating, and if you let it run without power limits, then it might descend into an arms race with all of the other tinkering you can do with AMD short of actual overclocking.

On the other hand, if most motherboards already run without the power limits right out of the box, then the performance measurements captured by GN aren't so "realistic" or "practical". They're consistent against their own testing methodology across all Intel CPUs, but might not match what the user is actually getting unless they go out of their way to re-enable the limits. To GN's credit, if you watch one of their videos reviewing an Intel CPU then you know that the limits exists and might even think of reenabling it, but in this case HWU has a point in that what they're measuring is the out-of-the-box experience.

I guess what HWU is trying to clarify here is that if overclocking a K-SKU CPU voids your warranty, lifting the power limit does not, which might be important to people who ever need to RMA their CPU.

Having said all that, anyone else have an opinion on this difference between how GN and HWU test Intel CPUs? I guess for me the important part is that the viewer is aware of what's being done, so they can calibrate their expectations and comparisons appropriately.

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.

I think it's perfectly fine as long as your methodology is consistent and explained publicly (which GN has done, as well as explaining why they do it like that) so people can actually compare benchmarks across your site knowing everything's playing by the same rules. Running it with whatever it's like out of the box also fine since it's what most people are going to actually use.

Basically I just prefer everyone's consistent in their own benchmarks rather than constantly hunting down some theoretical "perfect" methodology.

mA
Jul 9, 2001
I am the ugly lover.

It's great that Linus (who is arguably the most shilly of techtubers) feels the need to declare that he's" not an anticapitalist activist" in his pro Right to Repair video to reassure the chud section of his fanbase.

mA fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Apr 22, 2021

forest spirit
Apr 6, 2009



to me it seemed like the script was trying to catch every counter-argument against right to repair, not that he was appeasing chudspeople

Whitest Russian
Nov 23, 2013


forest spirit posted:

to me it seemed like the script was trying to catch every counter-argument against right to repair, not that he was appeasing chudspeople

It's nice seeing passionate Linus come out, although the ads take away from the legitimateness of the issue IMO.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014




gradenko_2000 posted:

if most motherboards already run without the power limits right out of the box, then the performance measurements captured by GN aren't so "realistic" or "practical". They're consistent against their own testing methodology across all Intel CPUs, but might not match what the user is actually getting unless they go out of their way to re-enable the limits. To GN's credit, if you watch one of their videos reviewing an Intel CPU then you know that the limits exists and might even think of reenabling it, but in this case HWU has a point in that what they're measuring is the out-of-the-box experience.

I think there's a place for both of those methodologies in testing. Be kind of boring if every reviewer did things the same way.

Fame Douglas
Nov 20, 2013

RELY NOT ON MY HONOR!!! FOR WHEN I OFFER MY WORD OF BOND, I TAKE NOT THAT VOW TO HEART!! CASUALLY, I BRING SHAME TO MY HOUSEHOLD AND RUIN TO THOSE WHO RELY ON MY COMMITMENT, BY SHIRKING MY AVOWED DUTY

Different mainboards use different default power limit settings, the only way to have a reasonable comparison between CPUs is to use Intel's (or AMD's) recommendations. Otherwise you're benchmarking some manufacturer's Bios defaults.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


gradenko_2000 posted:

Having said all that, anyone else have an opinion on this difference between how GN and HWU test Intel CPUs? I guess for me the important part is that the viewer is aware of what's being done, so they can calibrate their expectations and comparisons appropriately.

IMO the reasons not to test with whatever settings the motherboard comes with is:

1. Ok, which motherboard do you use as your "testing standard"? Because now mobo settings and power delivery have potential impact on performance. Is it the gold-plated $500 mobo? Or is it the average best-seller mobo that is what the most people are using? Because if the justification for leaving things at OOB mobo settings is "that's the actual user experience", you probably should use a cheaper mobo.

2. It encourages an arms race between motherboard makers. This was a real problem back ~15 years ago when we had a FSB, mobo makers started adding a mhz to the default OOB FSB speed. Then 2 mhz, then 3. And then if you had an unusual or sensitive PCI card in your system, you'd get unstable results.

3. Eventually AMD will join in and let mobo makers ship with PBO options turned on or some poo poo. Which, IMHO, sucks. All this poo poo is adding 1-2% to final CPU performance, at the cost of 50+ watts of power consumption which for most people is a complete waste. And when I say "most people" I'm talking about enthusiast gamers. Maybe I'm just over-sensitive to this issue since loving bitcoin came around.


tldr if Intel wants to have their CPUs score 2% better, they should be consistent with their specs. Call the high-power mode the official spec for the K series, and put the TDP that reflects that spec on the box.

VostokProgram
Feb 20, 2014



mA posted:

It's great that Linus (who is arguably the most shilly of techtubers) feels the need to declare that he's" not an anticapitalist activist" in his pro Right to Repair video to reassure the chud section of his fanbase.

bourgeois liberals and chuds are not the same thing

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.

I would also put it down to Youtubers' fear of ever being labelled "political" by the algorithm, see also times when GN Steve does an aside about never saying whether or not crypto mining is a bad thing.

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


njsykora posted:

I would also put it down to Youtubers' fear of ever being labelled "political" by the algorithm, see also times when GN Steve does an aside about never saying whether or not crypto mining is a bad thing.

I think it's more the audience than the algorithm. Many popular YouTubers in the Linux world go hard on right-wing politics, one even posted his video of attending a Trump rally in the middle of the pandemic. I would say most of those people, even ones I drop for their politics, would support right to repair as a liberty that comes with putting up the cash for purchase. But there's people looking to organize boycotts all over politics, it's just that opensource evangelism is so predominantly white and male that it's no surprise when chuds emerge and there's a strong desire to not lose allies or their knowledge when they do. (It should be noted that actual FOSS projects and organizations are taking a much better ethos on that, creating codes of conduct that is pushing the disgruntled chud factor to the commentator/influencer part of the community, which is part of why this phenomenon occurs.)

To be honest, Linus putting "right to repair" in the spectrum of comerce/communism seems like a bit much. And of course, Linus had his "MONEY!!!!1" video the other month so why would anyone rush to call him a pinko. He's probably reading something he wrote off the cuff, but it's more about anarchy versus just about anything else in the consumer protections space.

Space Racist
Mar 27, 2008

~savior of yoomanity~


Who is ReviewTechUSA and does he ever actually review tech or does he just make videos about ~drama~?

Never watched the dude but his videos keep showing up in my feed suggestions.

Purgatory Glory
Feb 20, 2005


Space Racist posted:

Who is ReviewTechUSA and does he ever actually review tech or does he just make videos about ~drama~?

Never watched the dude but his videos keep showing up in my feed suggestions.

He used to be all about reviewing games and talking about how much the gtx 980ti was a better deal than the Titan. But it's evolved to mostly drama talk about the industry or fellow content creators.

Former Human
Oct 15, 2001



Rich the ReviewTech guy had a disagreement with Pat Contri over Diablo Immortal of all things two and a half years ago and still randomly poo poo-talks Pat about it. He's a creep but I guess stirring up drama gets more clicks.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008


dickbutt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S-usumuaWo

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Space Racist posted:

Who is ReviewTechUSA and does he ever actually review tech or does he just make videos about ~drama~?

Never watched the dude but his videos keep showing up in my feed suggestions.

Because of this post I learned that EDP445 is a pedophile.

EDIT: I'm a closet "Youtubers that make videos about other Youtubers fan"

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

https://twitter.com/TheGatorGamer/status/1391988443673251840



--edit:
Apparently this is related to this warning shot bullshit that happened a while ago, after he taunted and dared some other Youtuber douchenozzle to show up at his house.

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 18:55 on May 11, 2021

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


How it started:

Klyith posted:

IMO the reasons not to test with whatever settings the motherboard comes with is:

1. Ok, which motherboard do you use as your "testing standard"? Because now mobo settings and power delivery have potential impact on performance.

How it's going:

Intel B560 is a Disaster posted:

Depending on the B560 motherboard, performance of locked 65 watt parts like the 11400 and 11700 can be negatively impacted by over 30%. That’s right, we’re not talking about parts like the Core i9-11900K, but rather processors you will be using with a budget B560 motherboard.
...
Removing the power limits on the B560M Pro with the i7-11700 installed resulted in VRM thermal throttling, and while this still saw the average clock speed raised to 3.8 GHz -- a 900 MHz boost there -- frequent dips to 800 MHz when throttling makes for a horrible experience.
https://www.techspot.com/article/2252-intel-b560-disaster/


So yes this was not at all an academic exercise, Intel's extremely flexible definitions of "TDP", "base clock", and "specification" mean that there are mobos that technically meet Intel's qualifications to run the processors, but cannot support the performance of higher-end mobos.

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gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

My takeaway from that video is:

1. Hardware Unboxed does not actively remove the power limits from their Intel boards - they use out-of-the-box performance, as opposed to Gamers Nexus which (I'm pretty sure) deliberately goes into the board settings to enforce Intel's guidance, regardless of what the board-settings began as. In which case, GN probably wouldn't have found anything of the ordinary from one board to another, even though their approach (again, as they make it clear) technically "leaves performance on the table"

2. You could always run CPUs in VRMs that can't handle it, as in the case of putting a 12-core Zen 2 CPU on an A320, or a 12-core Ryzen 3 CPU on an A520. In either case, the less-capable VRMs are almost certainly going to cause throttling issues, even if you left things "stock", just because AMD likes to do a floating turbo out of the box. I guess the problem with Intel is that a B560 board already isn't assumed to be bottom-of-the-barrel (because it's an H510 that's the lowest tier) and that the 8-core i7-11700 isn't / shouldn't be comparable to a Ryzen 9 3900X.

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