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The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling

Ziploc posted:

I almost think he deserves it. Since to this day he absolves himself of any wrong doing, and everyone who disagrees is an 'angry nerd who is jealous that they don't have a computer as good as his.'

I saw him streaming Tarkov last year. Which of course he touted as being someone who knew stuff about the game/been playing it for a while. But proceeded to get many fundamental things wrong about it and was basically making rookie mistakes the entire time. Like bringing magazines into a raid that didn't even fit in his gun. It was absolutely fascinating. He also made all kinds of weird excuses for his mistakes too.

I find him in general to be a pretty interesting person. Only because I never ever want to be so out of touch with what's going on around me as he was.

Obviously, it's a bad video. But it can be pretty overwhelming to feel like the entire internet is hassling you for something you probably had to do at your job. People can criticize the Verge editorial process if they want to - editors and management have a duty of care to their staff and its entirely an editor's job to say "I don't think this should be put out there".

The line between harassment and criticism isn't as obvious as people think. Especially when criticism comes in such volume and for such a sustained period of time.

And in terms of the follow-up reaction, if you felt like the entire internet was trying to ruin your life just because you hosed up at work, you'd probably react poorly too. We all would.

Honestly, it's completely embarrassing seeing people on the internet continue to dissect this guy's entire career. I don't think people realize how terrifying it can be to do a public facing job at the best of times, let alone when you gently caress up. He doesn't owe angry nerds on the internet anything. The video got taken down quickly and it didn't cause a legion of new PC builders to burn down their homes. We've all done work we're less than happy with, and there are all kinds of reasons why that might be the case.

My one caveat to all this is it is pretty funny when Steve Burke or Linus or whoever casually says "that's right, we got one" when they review a CPU.

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The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling


At least with console fandom, stupid as it is, you can see how its rooted in not wanting buyer's remorse over missing out on console exclusive games or whatever. And with graphics cards you get certain technologies that are exclusive to either vendor. But this whole team red/team blue thing is literally just rooted in ... whichever one does maths the fastest for cheapest? And yet people get just as tribal as with everything else?

The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling

Pilfered Pallbearers posted:

You donít have an intel inside (tm) tramp stamp? Because I do.

Does anyone actually do anything with the little glitzy stickers that come with their CPUs? I feel like to slap it on my case would somewhat defeat the point of having built my own PC from scratch

The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling

Vintersorg posted:

It's gonna slowly turn into a rich kid hobby if things keep going bad. This could destroy the scene if only a bunch of whales are in it.

Building PC's - at least gaming pcs - has always been a rich kid hobby though? When I was a kid/teenager, it was only the people from rich families who had high end PCs (and then thru my 20's when I wasn't earning all that much it was only friends who were into games but also worked in finance or whatever who had the nice PCs). The rest of us made do on our janky Compaq family computers, or whatever old laptops were handed down to us.

The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling

HalloKitty posted:

Nope, it was a cheap hobby, overclocking Durons and Celerons and cutting up lovely old cases to gain some airflow. Rich kids bought Alienware..

Of course, you could spend a lot, but it was far from an exclusive thing. Most pirated Windows with few exceptions, saving that in the budget too

I'm aware of how much stuff cost back in the day - I remember 10 years ago building a really good PC for £400-£500 or so - but I guess I'm learning that my idea of what constitutes a rich kid is vastly different from a lot of people in this thread. It was cheaper back then but still felt like a lot of money back then, I could only really afford it because I was working full time but was still a teenager and hadn't moved out of home yet. Maybe it's a country thing?

I mean, it did still feel like you were cheating the system by building your own because it was so much cheaper than getting an alienware or whatever.

On topic: I get why people find Linus annoying, but everything I've read about the guy makes it sound like he just wants to build a sustainable business where he can pay all his staff as much as possible for as long as possible, and they seem very conscious about e-waste and stuff like that - although the 'sustainable business' part I guess means rinsing the YouTube algorithm for all its worth in every conceivable way. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed that roast they did of him. Even his wife was completely slamming him for the fact that his fanbase is entirely teenage boys.

The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling

Worldshatter posted:

Is there a tangible benefit to twitter verification beyond it just being more difficult to impersonate you (which if you're a big personality/a business, is admittedly a big plus)?

Just noticed a lot of people going for it and getting rejected recently

I used to helm a verified account for work, although it was a year ago so apologies if this is out of date or if any of this is now just available to every twitter acc:

You can filter notifications by other verified accounts, which is good if you get notifications in volume, and if your communications strategy needs you to court or otherwise hassle influential people

It's generally good for growing your audience. A blue tick will get you noticed and help grow your follower count - especially if you're tweeting as an organisation/company/media outlet. People trust a blue tick.

The huge one though is that it gives you access to Twitter Media Studio. This lets you schedule Tweets (which other websites do), but also schedule video clips to twitter, and include things like .srt subtitle files, and also stores your media to make it easier to tweet out again down the road.


It's kind of ridiculous how much more you can do. Your analytics also get a lot richer. It'll give you estimates for the education level of your followers, how many of them are homeowners, their consumer buying habits, all kindws of creepy stuff like that.

The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling

K8.0 posted:

It happens to everyone. Most reviewers of anything, even the including the personable people you like (actually especially those people) are absolutely soulless shills, aided and abetted by the fact that they don't know a goddamn thing about what they're reviewing and also a lack of creative thinking to search for and understand potential flaws. If you have the ability to figure out what's wrong with a product, you're no longer just a hype machine and thus you're dangerous to the manufacturer.

There is a middle ground, where it happens to everyone and people politely turn down the offer but don't also burn their bridges with a useful PR contact.

The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKzmYsySGFQ

Oh wow, Linus did a video with Verge PC build guy. Good on him. That original video should have never been published, but was clearly the result of a breakdown in communication and line management between the dude, managing editors, and production staff/video editors, all on an unreasonable deadline.

He goes into how he dealt with the backlash too, which sounds like bad advice from his employers and his employers' legal team.

Linus is super reflective and reasonable about how that stuff can happen in video production (presenting to camera is scary, stressful, and can push your brain to do all kinds of stupid poo poo - you rely on the person in the editing booth to present you in a good light) and why it was wrong for tech youtubers to just crucify this guy's career.

Just impressed with how... grown up the whole thing is?

The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling

Klyith posted:

Is it wrong for GN to put a clip of gigabyte PSUs blowing up into every video they've made for the last month? I'm sure there are some totally nice people getting fired from Gigabyte right now, because the company is staring at a giant loss coming up. A bunch of them probably have nothing to do with the PSUs. Stop crucifying Gigabyte!



The guy didn't deserve what happened to him, but that's on the Verge for running a lovely high-pressure content farm operation, escalating to DCMA strikes, and then throwing him off the back of the sled to the wolves when the heat got too high. That's where like 90% of the blame should be laid, and the other 10% is on the internet shitheads who buzz around like vile flies to unload nasty harassment on the weak target of the month. Those people absolutely suck. But saying youtubers are responsible for harassment because of those shitheads is both wrong, and only amplifies the results.

His employer destroyed his career, full stop.

IMO blaming tech youtubers for the results is carrying water for Vox Media, a lovely company which at the time was also fighting against their employees unionizing and doing a "work for exposure not pay" trick with their sports websites. They are the ones that fired the guy. Not youtubers. gently caress that and gently caress Vox.

I mean in my post I clearly blamed his employer. I've done editorial work before and it's absolutely the responsibility of the editors above you to step in when they think you're going to publish something seriously stupid, which is incredibly easy for you to do as a .

But also, it's completely obviously a shameful indictment of the youtube outrage industrial complex and the material effect it has on people's lives. The GN PSU thing isn't targeted harrasment of an individual, and is trying to stand up for customers in a meaningful way. Contrast with this, where youtubers were being shitheads behind an incredibly flimsy smokescreen of "but if someone follows this guide something bad might happen so we are protecting people", stoking up their already lovely audiences. If all those reaction videos were about the Verge, I'd agree with you. But they obviously weren''t.

The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling

Fame Douglas posted:

The IO shield also makes plugging things in blindly easier. Just make it the first thing you put into your PC, then you're golden. Really not hard. Spending extra on a mobo that doesn't have an IO shield seems like a waste.

Got a new motherboard recently and probably my favourite thing about it is it has a nice quality io shield built directly onto the board itself. It's all flush with the various ports.

The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling

Fame Douglas posted:

But not with the case, I assume.

What? Of course it is.

The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling

K8.0 posted:

The Verge was and is garbage, but Stefan also deserves plenty of blame. You can wing poo poo to a certain degree, but if you can't tell zip ties from tweezers, you should know that you have no business telling people how to build a computer.

He could have used the infamy as an opportunity to bail from his job, take ownership of the mess and parlay his fame into something more positive, but I mean... if you're the sort of person who winds up working as a host for The Verge doing amazingly bad tutorials, you probably don't have many people around you giving good advice. The more bad decisions you make, the easier it is to keep making bad decisions. I'm glad he's finally got an opportunity to move on from being a walking meme, but let's not pretend that video was any less bad than it was.

On the whole, I think the best thing people can take away from it is that video "experts" rarely have any clue what the gently caress they're talking about, their actual profession is "host" and the confidence is part of the job, not something that's warranted by their knowledge. If you were an expert in every field, the vast majority of videos on youtube purporting to supply knowledge would be just as transparently awful. Go watch some videos related to your career, I bet you want to blow your loving brains out 45 seconds in to most of them. That video got exposed hard because the audience likely to watch a "how to build a PC" video tends to primarily be people who already know in detail how to build a PC.

I mean, I feel like your second point kind of undercuts your first there. You don't have to be an expert in all things tech to be a tech journalist, as you say, and it's fairly likely that the publication said "pc building videos are ranking high on SEO right now, you need to do one pronto", and he wasn't given the time or resources to properly do his research. When you're early career in a hyper competitive enthusiast press you'll probably feel a huge amount of pressure to do what you're told. The pressure to wing it instead of passing up the job as a young guy with one of the few jobs in a dying but coveted industry will be immense.

And I can totally see it being a cascade of failures, where the video editor (also working to an unreasonable deadline) uses the footage where the guy says tweezers instead of zip ties (people misspeak ALL THE TIME when presenting to camera. I've had to edit out so many people with actual expertise saying completely the opposite of what they mean plenty of times), they use the wrong shots in the wrong order, etc etc etc.

Obviously I'm speculating, but then so is everyone else who is assuming that this is all him running off his own steam, or that there weren't a million stupid logistical reasons for how the final edit turned out how it did (which includes misinformation said directly to camera).

If he was a youtuber working solo, I'd agree with you on your first point. But honestly the fault completely lies with the publisher. It's the whole job of the editorial chain above you to decide whether or not your content passes the bar for quality - and to give you the time and resources you need to do a proper job. And if people in your editorial chain (or in the editing bay) don't have the expertise to decide which footage to use - especially in a video that's supposed to be educational like this - then you either budget to bring on a behind the scenes consultant, or you don't commission the content at all.

The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling

Klyith posted:

Blaming people who didn't do a thing, instead of the people who did it and the platforms that enable them, is dumb. Holding the people with the least control over the results responsible diminishes the vast chasm of responsibility that social media and especially twitter live in.

You post on SA, this site has collectively done some pretty reprehensible poo poo in the past. Can I blame you for that poo poo?

Your point about SA posting makes no sense, but to your previous point, if somebody has an audience, and especially if that audience is known to operate collectively in certain ways, then how that person mobilises that audience is absolutely their responsibility. Whether or not those reaction videos were racist, they were designed to be as hyped up and overblown as possible. It doesn't diminish the responsibility of the people in the hate mob to say that the people who riled up the hate mob to begin with are just as responsible.

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The Grumbles
Jun 5, 2006

let the anger flow through your salt beef filling

Jack Ratigan posted:

Actually it sounds like you don't know what you are talking about. Who's audiences "act a certain way collectively"? Is there a threshold for "collective PC gamer racism"? Is there a chart? How much of the pie has to be filled before making fun of a black man screwing up is "riling up a hate mob"?
Youtubers have no ability to protect POC from shitheels.
The idea that they have the responsibility to makes me legitimately angry. It's paternalistic as hell. No one, not even Bitwit, were busting out with 1930's tom and jerry cartoons or winking at their evil audiences about, "those people".
Most of the videos I saw on the drat thing weren't even that zany or overblown. Unless the videos were made, or they were harder on him BECAUSE he's black, then he's fair game.

This whole line of thought is wild to me. Should they have taken steps to "protect" him from the videos backlash? Not reported on it?
Don't you realize how backhanded that is?

Hello I used to do a lot of online community management though that shouldn't be relevant to this and the other replies about it. The racism is bad but it's just the poo poo icing on a horrible cake. I mean just the pileon itself is bad enough and its hard to understate just how disproportionate the effect of that will be on your life to whatever slight you've done. It's not just your career - it's people doxxing you or calling your house or sending death threats or you having to change your email address and your phone number. Even if it's not that extreme, the psychological effect of getting so much hate is seriously awful and I wouldn't wish it on anyone who, uh, made a bad PC build guide that was only ever seen by people who already know how to build a computer.

The pileon itself I mean as more of a broad problem with youtube and the way that it incentivizes hype/strong reactions above all else from creators, which will whip up any audience into a frenzy (PC gamers are particularly awful but honestly these dynamics apply to any audience). Most of those videos maybe didn't feel that zany or overblown because they're in a sea of videos of people losing their poo poo to a marvel trailer or whatever. Honestly, most of the coverage wasn't 'reporting', it was entertainment - reaction videos/edits/etc. There are ways to "report" on this stuff in a way that focuses the narrative on the publication, but nobody did that.

I mean call it a faustian pact with the algorithm or whatever but when creators go into a space that directly incentivises them being as hype as possible about everything I think the least they could do is go the linus route and not direct that towards individuals because the internet and its uncapped audience is basically out of control.
The dynamics of the internet mean that these things will inevitably happen when someone in a public space as oversensitive as PC gaming makes some kind of mistake, but that doesn't mean you can't look at those people as willing participants in a completely toxic ecosystem!

A book I'd recommend to absolutely anyone is So You've Been Publically Shamed by Jon Ronson. It goes really well into the dynamics of all this - people's whose lives have tanked because of online pile-ons. I mean, this dude didn't exactly run a paramilitary death squad. But the internet doesn't really let you not shout as loudly about the bad PC build guide as the climate crisis or humanitarian disasters or whatever.

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