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Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006


MY GIMMICK IS POSTING GIBBERISH



I said byeeee sir!

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Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007




Shadowrun Returns was a tech demo and boring/bad.

Shadowrun: Dragonfall I haven't actually finished but what I played was ok.

Shadowrun: Hong Kong was pretty good.

Thanks for listening if you enjoyed this please like and subscribe for my upcoming Cyberpunk 2077 review.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

in soviet russia, you shove robot

There is an excellent Dragonfall LP going on at https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...hreadid=3842885

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017



Shadowrun: Hong Kong has Gobbet the Trash Princess thus it has a passing grade.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk



Kanfy also did Returns, which is a good way of experiencing it if you don't want to play it

mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING



Wedge Regret

Returns was fanservice for the olds who played SR first edition in highschool. I am one, and even I found it at a bit too "Yeah baby that's right this is that good poo poo you remember from 10th grade". I didn't recommend it to anyone except hardcore fans, and once Dragonfall came out I told all my friends ignore SR:R.

Dragonfall was a really good story, with a surprising amount of growth in writing and characterization compared to SR:R.

Hong Kong, I was sad when it ended because it felt like a really good campaign setting, and I wanted more stories set in that milieu. Mindful ghoul corpo-samurai? Haunted noodle machines? And yes, Gobbet the Ork rat shaman. Such good stuff. That said, the Triad tropes could have been turned down a little.

I bought copies of the latter two for basically everyone I knew on Steam.

AirRaid
Dec 21, 2004

Nose Manual + Super Sonic Spin Attack

Arglebargle III posted:

I didn't get to see any dogs it was terrible.

You weren't looking hard enough!



I didn't think W_D 1 was particularly bad, maybe a little mediocre in parts with some jawdroppingly bad story segments/cutscenes, but overall the game was fun, and had some of the best hide and seek MP gameplay I've ever seen.

W_D2 is genuinely a good game. The shift in tone turns a lot of it into tongue in cheek humour rather than an apparently serious attempt at ~~drama~~, and the new gadgets are fun to play with. And you could actually pet dogs.

AirRaid fucked around with this message at 07:43 on May 23, 2020

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk


Plus you can call the cops on the gangs on the other gangs on the cops (again) on the first gang on the first gang (again, at this point the air is like 52% bullets so they don't notice they're fighting themselves) then slip in and grab the briefcase or whatever

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



Alternatively you can sit your rear end down in a nearby bush outside of the building and use your drones and hacking to complete the objective, without ever setting foot inside. It owned.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

in soviet russia, you shove robot

Someone is going to figure out how to hack Trauma Team on day 1 and it will be glorious.

Sylphosaurus
Sep 6, 2007


I really enjoy playing Watchdogs 2 but the U.I is loving atrocious. I get their choice of style but it really gives me a whole lot of problem when I try to do something as easy as trying to find my mission objectives.

Xander77
Apr 6, 2009

Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.




chitoryu12 posted:

One of my favorite moments in the New Vegas thread was a guy bitching so hard that it caused JE Sawyer himself to tell him how wrong he was.
Wait, a moment... are you trying to tell me that the game designers believe that the way they've designed the game is... good? Holy poo poo. That is so shocking.

And not really relevant to the question of whether the game is well designed. (The "quick" way to Vegas, filled with invisible walls and linear cliff paths, outright requiring you to learn it's possible from an outside source and save-load your way past a number of deaths, was definitely not).

Cactus
Jun 24, 2006



I used to watch/listen to a podcast called Invisible Walls which had that dickhead Shane Satterfield and some whiny, sorry, opinionated Welsh guy and one of them bitched about pretty much this exact thing in New Vegas for about an hour straight when it came out and they argued and argued and I just got reminded of that lol.

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


Xander77 posted:

Wait, a moment... are you trying to tell me that the game designers believe that the way they've designed the game is... good? Holy poo poo. That is so shocking.

And not really relevant to the question of whether the game is well designed. (The "quick" way to Vegas, filled with invisible walls and linear cliff paths, outright requiring you to learn it's possible from an outside source and save-load your way past a number of deaths, was definitely not).

Or you could listen to what characters in game tell you, explore a little, and use the tools given to you to get through. But I guess that WOULD require a little bit of thinking, and that must be pretty difficult for some.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



It's crazy how much some people hate the idea of any kind of meaningful obstacle or being ever told "no, you can't do this dumb thing you wanted to do". DOOM Eternal had people bitching about it as well.
I guess that explains why so many AAA games are all homogeneous schlock designed to be "played your way" where you get congratulatory achievements every 5 steps for being able to hold your controller the right way.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

TURDS BOD


If anyone could link me to the post where JE Sawyer calls a goon dumb Iíd be so grateful

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


Bust Rodd posted:

If anyone could link me to the post where JE Sawyer calls a goon dumb I’d be so grateful

Got linked last page actually, it's why we're talking about it

Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007




Ugh what do you mean I can't just bunnyhop over this cliff and instead have to engage with obstacles the developer placed for me? This is the worst game design ever, and no one could ever figure out that the two stealthboys that are almost impossible to miss in Goodsprings could be used to bypass these obstacles without googling it.

grieving for Gandalf
Apr 22, 2008

Old school? New school?
Shit, I didn't go to school



actually in a good game you can oblivion jump up this mountain while tediously avoiding danger and then go to the part of the game you're probably not equipped for

ymgve
Jan 2, 2004




Offensive Clock

Who the hell uses stealthboys? They are for putting in storage till you really REALLY need them! Sure, there were like several dozen in my stash when I finished the game, but you never know!

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

TURDS BOD


Of all the stupid, idiotic, and toxic habits Iíve shed since childhood ďhoarding items in video gamesĒ is the one whose absence has made me the happiest.

I will burn an elixir on a trash mob without even blinking, baby, FULL MP LETíS GOOOOOO, I donít care if I can see the next rest area on my mini-map

ErrEff
Feb 13, 2012

Have you heard the good news?

Look deeply into my eyes.

STADIA!


Yeah, stealth boys are like megalixirs or masterballs. You never use them.

Xander77
Apr 6, 2009

Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.




Sandwich Anarchist posted:

Or you could listen to what characters in game tell you, explore a little, and use the tools given to you to get through.
The characters in game tell you to turn around and use the intended route. If you get any in-game indication about Black Valley being the difficult but faster way to get to Vegas, I'd love to hear that, because that would mean there's some bare hint of in-character reason to go there.

If you explore a little, you will head down the road and run into a bunch of deathclaws, some of whom are programmed to be able to see through your invisibility device. You can spend forever banging your head against the wall, but to the best of my recollection (possibly confirmed by our lord and master JSawyer in the FNV thread) there's no intended way to get past them.

You could try to avoid the deathclaws entirely and climb the mountains, but that's impossible due to the invisible walls and unscalable cliffs.

Wicked Them Beats posted:

Ugh what do you mean I can't just bunnyhop over this cliff and instead have to engage with obstacles the developer placed for me?
We're outright defending invisible walls in the middle of an open world now. Ok.

Anyways, if you happen to stumble into Black Valley proper, for some reason (I don't believe it's on your map to begin with, and the path there still involves navigating past Bark Scorpions and possible wandering deathclaws, which previous experience should have told you was a cue to turn back), you will meet Neil, who outright tells you that this is a high-level area full of supermutants, and you should turn back. There's no reason to assume that they won't be able to see through you invisibility as well - for that matter, there's no reason to assume the valley contains a path of Vegas, rather than being surrounded by more impassable cliffs.

But of course, if you don't make this assumption, haven't used up any of your Stealth Boys to try and get past the deathclaws, and manage to figure out the one path that allows you to leave the valley (IIRC, it's in the direction that's headed AWAY from Vegas), the whole thing is perfectly intuitive and well designed.

quote:

But I guess that WOULD require a little bit of thinking, and that must be pretty difficult for some.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

TURDS BOD


"i should be able to play every game in any way I want" is one of the worst gaming takes to spring up in the last couple years and really speaks to the bizarre para-social relationship that social media has helped propagate. If a dev makes a game, and they want you to play it a certain way or a set variety of ways, but you want to play it a completely different way, they literally do not owe it to you or anyone else to accommodate you, like at all. That might make their game inaccessible to some, but that is there right as a dev.

I'm obviously not talking about true accessibility options, things like subtitles or color-blind modes, or the ability to remap buttons for the differently abled, that stuff is all good and fine and should be encouraged.

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!



You have bad opinions and also sound bad at playing video games

Bust Rodd posted:

"i should be able to play every game in any way I want" is one of the worst gaming takes to spring up in the last couple years and really speaks to the bizarre para-social relationship that social media has helped propagate. If a dev makes a game, and they want you to play it a certain way or a set variety of ways, but you want to play it a completely different way, they literally do not owe it to you or anyone else to accommodate you, like at all. That might make their game inaccessible to some, but that is there right as a dev.

I'm obviously not talking about true accessibility options, things like subtitles or color-blind modes, or the ability to remap buttons for the differently abled, that stuff is all good and fine and should be encouraged.

What the gently caress, I can only run to the right?! This Mario is not super at all, in my opinion. It is actually trash.

Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 16:28 on May 23, 2020

frajaq
Jan 30, 2009

#acolyte GM of 2014



Xander77 posted:

If you explore a little, you will head down the road and run into a bunch of deathclaws, some of whom are programmed to be able to see through your invisibility device.

what

dunno man I remember doing the Stealthboy trick so many times this poo poo never happened

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



Bust Rodd posted:

I'm obviously not talking about true accessibility options, things like subtitles or color-blind modes, or the ability to remap buttons for the differently abled, that stuff is all good and fine and should be encouraged.

Okay but what if I want to go straight through Black Valley because of my difficulties grasping the concept of self-preservation? Shouldn't I get accessibility options to accommodate my differently abled nature, huh?

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


frajaq posted:

what

dunno man I remember doing the Stealthboy trick so many times this poo poo never happened

i never managed without save scumming

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006


MY GIMMICK IS POSTING GIBBERISH



How did this thread resurrect an argument from a thread that died three years ago.

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


Arglebargle III posted:

How did this thread resurrect an argument from a thread that died three years ago.

new vegas threads are eternal

frajaq
Jan 30, 2009

#acolyte GM of 2014



Arglebargle III posted:

How did this thread resurrect an argument from a thread that died three years ago.

arguing about Bethesda inevitable ends up in Obsidian/New Vegas discussions

Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007





lol deathclaws have good hearing, dummy. Just don't walk right next to them or make sure to be sneaking when you have to pass close by. There's even a blind deathclaw in a passage towards the south of the map that has super hearing. And what the hell do you mean "no intended route" to get past them? Do you mean there's no route you can navigate without the stealth boys? Because if you don't want to use the stealth boys you can take explosives and fight the cazadores to the northwest of Goodsprings (explosives disable their wings pretty easily and once they're flightless they're easy pickings), or you can head up towards Black Mountain and fight three to five Super Mutants and then slip down the back of the mountain past the deathclaws, or you can head to Scorpion Gulch and fight/run your way through there past some giant scorpions and end up near Helios One. Any of those options are doable at low level (I have done all of them). Granted the Super Mutant one is the hardest of the bunch but again, just use some stealth boys if you really want to beeline for The Strip that badly.

frajaq posted:

arguing about Bethesda inevitable ends up in Obsidian/New Vegas discussions

the New Vegas argument cycle is so ingrained into the forums that it actually consumes other threads from time to time

Glenn Quebec
Oct 30, 2005

That's because our downstream reality reflects an upstream case but I'm going to violate it.

This really is the worst thread in Games

Xander77
Apr 6, 2009

Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.




frajaq posted:

what

dunno man I remember doing the Stealthboy trick so many times this poo poo never happened

quote:

Deathclaws are able to detect the Courier while sneaking with a Stealth Boy activated from farther away, due to their high Perception.

Source:
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Deathclaw_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)

Also:

Wicked Them Beats posted:

lol deathclaws have good hearing, dummy. Just don't walk right next to them or make sure to be sneaking when you have to pass close by.

Wicked Them Beats posted:

And what the hell do you mean "no intended route" to get past them? Do you mean there's no route you can navigate without the stealth boys?
"Past" rather than around. Down the road past Sloan, rather than heading into Black Valley etc.

French Canadian
Feb 23, 2004

Quick Robin, to the Fatmobile!

Wait so is this game not even out?

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



French Canadian posted:

Wait so is this game not even out?

It is but it's so bad that we choose to discuss other 10 years old games instead.

Wicked Them Beats
Apr 1, 2007





Yes the "perception" stat is how they "see" through the stealthboy, and their detection range is reduced by sneaking. Literally anything in the game can detect you through a stealthboy, but some things have super low perception and you'd basically have to be running into them before they notice you. Deathclaws are the top of the food chain and have really high perception. All the stealth boy does mechanically is boost sneak to 100 and give you a stealth field that removes Line of Sight as a way to detect you.

I think putting a huge threat that requires special tools to get past right next to the starting area gives a sense of danger to the world that is missing from most open world games, and I think it would undercut it if you could sneak past the deathclaws by just watching their patrol routes and then running really fast when there's an opening or something. I get that it makes you feel railroaded, but there's a half dozen other paths you can take if you don't want to use the stealth boys. And yes, these other paths are also dangerous and maybe you die, which is fun. I basically never died in Skyrim, and that is part of why it was a bad game. Nothing ever challenged me in a meaningful way.

French Canadian posted:

Wait so is this game not even out?

Cyberpunk 2077. Only 57 more years to release!

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

and god is on your side
dividing sparrows from the nightingales

Xander77 posted:

The characters in game tell you to turn around and use the intended route. If you get any in-game indication about Black Valley being the difficult but faster way to get to Vegas, I'd love to hear that, because that would mean there's some bare hint of in-character reason to go there.

If you explore a little, you will head down the road and run into a bunch of deathclaws, some of whom are programmed to be able to see through your invisibility device. You can spend forever banging your head against the wall, but to the best of my recollection (possibly confirmed by our lord and master JSawyer in the FNV thread) there's no intended way to get past them.

You could try to avoid the deathclaws entirely and climb the mountains, but that's impossible due to the invisible walls and unscalable cliffs.
We're outright defending invisible walls in the middle of an open world now. Ok.

Anyways, if you happen to stumble into Black Valley proper, for some reason (I don't believe it's on your map to begin with, and the path there still involves navigating past Bark Scorpions and possible wandering deathclaws, which previous experience should have told you was a cue to turn back), you will meet Neil, who outright tells you that this is a high-level area full of supermutants, and you should turn back. There's no reason to assume that they won't be able to see through you invisibility as well - for that matter, there's no reason to assume the valley contains a path of Vegas, rather than being surrounded by more impassable cliffs.

But of course, if you don't make this assumption, haven't used up any of your Stealth Boys to try and get past the deathclaws, and manage to figure out the one path that allows you to leave the valley (IIRC, it's in the direction that's headed AWAY from Vegas), the whole thing is perfectly intuitive and well designed.


The game points you in the opposite direction to keep following the guys that shot you. The other way is skipping the first part of the plot.

Which is a good thing, every open world game should have that option, but why should the 'skip the first five parts of the main quest' shortcut be easy or intuitive?

Phenotype
Jul 24, 2007

You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.


If you didn't click the link, the poster Rope Kid is responding to is MisterBibs, who has to be one of the craziest posters on the forum, who cannot ever be persuaded his batshit opinions aren't objective facts. Please don't assume his arguments have any merit. It's a pro-click if you want to see some top-shelf internet insanity though, I don't even want to know how you dredged up a 6 year old link like that.

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Kraftwerk
Aug 13, 2011


Should I buy this game from GOG or Steam? I want to support the developer and I heard steam gouges them pretty hard (30% of the price). The thing is I like having all my games on one platform and I only use GOG for old games I canít get on steam. Interestingly enough itís 57 CAD for the game on GOG and 79.99 on Steam. So theyíre getting more than their 30% worth I guess.

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