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The Gadfly
Sep 23, 2012


I guess I should've said that "they" in English is originally plural by definition, and was historically used as plural in almost all cases until very recently. It would be useful to differentiate between singular and plural when you have the information to do so, in my humble opinion. So, considering this, it would seem that English isn't the best language for this either. Anyway, I didn't mean to derail the Cyberpunk discussion with that, so I'll just leave it.

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tanglewood1420
Oct 28, 2010

The importance of this mission cannot be overemphasized


Singular they has been in common usage in English for centuries, it is not a new thing.

Prescriptive Grammarians have been saying singular they is incorrect usage for centuries too, but who gives a gently caress.

CYBEReris
Dec 15, 2007



If I see a robot arm on the floor, I think to myself and would say to someone "Oh somebody lost their robot arm, I hope THEY find it again" because I don't know the gender of the person who lost it. This is extremely common and so instinctual people don't think about it.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



CYBEReris posted:

If I see a robot arm on the floor, I think to myself and would say to someone "Oh somebody lost their robot arm, I hope THEY find it again" because I don't know the gender of the person who lost it. This is extremely common and so instinctual people don't think about it.

Nice anglocentrism there, you filthy imperialist.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



CYBEReris posted:

If I see a robot arm on the floor, I think to myself and would say to someone "Oh somebody lost their robot arm, I hope THEY find it again" because I don't know the gender of the person who lost it. This is extremely common and so instinctual people don't think about it.

In things like this is where I am still a non native English speaker.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.


Jack Trades posted:

Is there supposed to be stealth in this game? From the very first gameplay video I gotten the impression that there will be stealth but everything since has been about going full shooty bang bang only.

yeah. you can stealth poo poo and play completely nonleathaly.

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Singular they has been in use since the 14th century. Get with the times.

yeah. i think the issue is its gonna be translated into like 10 other languages and such. apperently from so article from a year ago. there is a them option and its not Binary choice. but than that article that got linked took off everyone ignored it because clearly CDPR are all nazis who hate Trans/NB people makes a better narrative than "making games is super loving hard and a complex subject in a customization system for an RPG with a gently caress ton of dialogue is hard and it some point your gonna gently caress up even if you mean well and at some point they will have to focus on other stuff because games cost money and they are a company after all" type deal.

Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Oct 17, 2020

ymgve
Jan 2, 2004




Offensive Clock

They didn’t answer the most important question in the latest video - sure, there are lots of cool cars but can you do a total cybernetic conversion and be a car?

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



ymgve posted:

They didn’t answer the most important question in the latest video - sure, there are lots of cool cars but can you do a total cybernetic conversion and be a car?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmqHs_6VSzQ

itry
Aug 23, 2019









https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI8woJCctEQ#t=22s

itry fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Oct 17, 2020

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

Hey, it's been a few pages since we've laughed at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvgb5a7vuLs

wow which of you jerks reported cyberblyat???

w00tmonger
Mar 9, 2011

F-F-FRIDAY NIGHT MOTHERFUCKERS


A 580 should be able to run this reasonably on an ukltawide 14400 75hz monitor right? It's that or running it on my 1660 at 1080p

cheesetriangles
Jan 5, 2011



I don't think any card can run this at ultra wide 14400. How many millions did that monitor cost.

Soul Glo
Aug 27, 2003

Just let it shine through


I think this thread is a chore to read sometimes, but then:

Wolfsheim posted:

A little bit of Deus Ex in my life
A little bit of GTA by my side
A little bit of Witcher is all I need
A little bit of Shadowrun is what I see
A little bit of Dishonored in the sun
A little bit of Bloodnet all night long
A little bit of Prey, here I am
A little bit of you makes me your man

homullus
Mar 27, 2009



The Gadfly posted:

I guess I should've said that "they" in English is originally plural by definition, and was historically used as plural in almost all cases until very recently. It would be useful to differentiate between singular and plural when you have the information to do so, in my humble opinion. So, considering this, it would seem that English isn't the best language for this either. Anyway, I didn't mean to derail the Cyberpunk discussion with that, so I'll just leave it.

"You" is originally only plural in definition (the singular is "thou") and the English language survived that transition just fine. As others have pointed out, the gender-neutral singular "they" is extremely old. It was probably the recent rise of the ultra-reactionary grammatical purists that slowed "they" from total acceptance today; "singular they" will probably reach Standard English acceptance in your lifetime. These grammatical fundamentalists are the ones who brought you the hypercorrection of "ain't," which is the grammatically-correct contraction of "am not," and the (also all old) rejection of flat adverbs, dangling modifiers, and exaggerated use of "literally."

Cream-of-Plenty
Apr 21, 2010


Obviously we need to make “they” a singular form and adopt the widespread usage of “theys” (or perhaps “thems”) for modern plural.

Eraflure
Oct 12, 2012




The game still needs to be translated in a lot of different languages and gender-neutral speech won't work well (if at all) with some of them. What you're asking for is a lot more work than it seems.

cheesetriangles
Jan 5, 2011



I think what people just want is masculine voice or feminine voice but they still call you with the opposite pronouns which probably isn't as much work as its made out to be but likely would be some additional work in cases of V or others referring to certain matters of Vs gender or body and would likely require recording some additional dialogue for Vs actors. I don't see how this would cause issues with non English languages unlike a gender neutral option.

cheesetriangles fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Oct 17, 2020

Eraflure
Oct 12, 2012




Oh, I didn't understand it that way. Yeah, it would be less work and a nice thing to have, but it most likely won't be a priority in the Crunch Zone.

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

We all got it coming, kid


cheesetriangles posted:

I think what people just want is masculine voice or feminine voice but they still call you with the opposite pronouns which probably isn't as much work as its made out to be but likely would be some additional work in cases of V or others referring to certain matters of Vs gender or body and would likely require recording some additional dialogue for Vs actors. I don't see how this would cause issues with non English languages unlike a gender neutral option.

Pretty much this, yeah. If you're gonna feature different NPC barks and dialogue based on gender, just add an option at character development

Gender: M/F
Voice tone: M/F
Pronouns: M/F

Wouldn't be hard to add a neutral option but as was suggested earlier, that gets tricky with non-English languages.

Kinda silly to think that Saints Row of all games figured this out where nothing was locked, and everyone just called you Boss.

Blind Rasputin
Nov 25, 2002

YOSPOS



Cream-of-Plenty posted:

Obviously we need to make “they” a singular form and adopt the widespread usage of “theys” (or perhaps “thems”) for modern plural.

They is singular. These is the pleural of they. The poster above is correct. We all say “they lost an arm” not “she, he, or they, lost an arm”. It’s all included. Sort of like use of the word them.

cheesetriangles
Jan 5, 2011



Gonna bring back thou into my daily speech patterns.

Au Revoir Shosanna
Feb 17, 2011

i support this government and/or service

Capn Beeb posted:

Pretty much this, yeah. If you're gonna feature different NPC barks and dialogue based on gender, just add an option at character development

Gender: M/F
Voice tone: M/F
Pronouns: M/F

Wouldn't be hard to add a neutral option but as was suggested earlier, that gets tricky with non-English languages.

Kinda silly to think that Saints Row of all games figured this out where nothing was locked, and everyone just called you Boss.

Yeah seems like a no brainer to decouple voice and pronouns, not sure why they'd tie them together in the first place.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



Because then you’d get people complaining that somehow everyone knows your pronouns on the spot whether or not they’ve seen you before. This is the perfect example of a problem with no solution that will please everyone.

SniperWoreConverse
Mar 20, 2010







Gun Saliva

Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

wow which of you jerks reported cyberblyat???

god drat it

YOLOsubmarine
Oct 19, 2004

When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."



chitoryu12 posted:

Because then you’d get people complaining that somehow everyone knows your pronouns on the spot whether or not they’ve seen you before. This is the perfect example of a problem with no solution that will please everyone.

People who complain about that are dumb and shouldn’t be catered to though.

SniperWoreConverse
Mar 20, 2010







Gun Saliva

homullus posted:

"You" is originally only plural in definition (the singular is "thou") and the English language survived that transition just fine. As others have pointed out, the gender-neutral singular "they" is extremely old. It was probably the recent rise of the ultra-reactionary grammatical purists that slowed "they" from total acceptance today; "singular they" will probably reach Standard English acceptance in your lifetime. These grammatical fundamentalists are the ones who brought you the hypercorrection of "ain't," which is the grammatically-correct contraction of "am not," and the (also all old) rejection of flat adverbs, dangling modifiers, and exaggerated use of "literally."

i thought it was formal / nonformal

you = vous
thou = tu

e: i looked it up and ȝe is both honorific and plural. From West Germanic *jīz. Not related to the other "ye," þe, which is just the.

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

We all got it coming, kid


chitoryu12 posted:

Because then you’d get people complaining that somehow everyone knows your pronouns on the spot whether or not they’ve seen you before. This is the perfect example of a problem with no solution that will please everyone.

Nah, not really.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



People who should be catered to: The ones that think like me.
People that shouldn't be catered to: The ones that don't think like me.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



Capn Beeb posted:

Nah, not really.

And yet the exact same fight happens every few months over it. Or someone complaining about the dick ad and having to have it explained that you’re not supposed to see it as a sexy cool thing.

Au Revoir Shosanna
Feb 17, 2011

i support this government and/or service

chitoryu12 posted:

Because then you’d get people complaining that somehow everyone knows your pronouns on the spot whether or not they’ve seen you before. This is the perfect example of a problem with no solution that will please everyone.

who would possibly complain about this

who is the person out there wanting to rp as a trans person who gets constantly misgendered

Gnome de plume
Sep 5, 2006

Hell.
Fucking.
Yes.


chitoryu12 posted:

Because then you’d get people complaining that somehow everyone knows your pronouns on the spot whether or not they’ve seen you before. This is the perfect example of a problem with no solution that will please everyone.

Everyone has implants that let them see what pronouns you put in your cybertwitter bio

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

Gnome de plume posted:

Everyone has implants that let them see what pronouns you put in your cybertwitter bio

did you mean this for the watch doges thread??????

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



Gnome de plume posted:

Everyone has implants that let them see what pronouns you put in your cybertwitter bio

Okay but why are there no custom pronouns then, huh? That's pretty sad state of affairs for a game about being punk.

Chalks
Sep 30, 2009



cheesetriangles posted:

I think what people just want is masculine voice or feminine voice but they still call you with the opposite pronouns which probably isn't as much work as its made out to be but likely would be some additional work in cases of V or others referring to certain matters of Vs gender or body and would likely require recording some additional dialogue for Vs actors. I don't see how this would cause issues with non English languages unlike a gender neutral option.

It's extremely unlikely that the pc is referred to with gendered pronouns in the English voice acting since it's so simple to avoid.

As for other heavily gendered languages, if you don't see how recording the entire game dialog twice is a lot of effort then I'm not sure what to say

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



Chalks posted:

It's extremely unlikely that the pc is referred to with gendered pronouns in the English voice acting since it's so simple to avoid.

As for other heavily gendered languages, if you don't see how recording the entire game dialog twice is a lot of effort then I'm not sure what to say

The gameplay demos have enemies using gendered pronouns.

The Gadfly
Sep 23, 2012


homullus posted:

"You" is originally only plural in definition (the singular is "thou") and the English language survived that transition just fine.

Good point. English needs a proper replacement for the plural of "thou", instead of the awkward "y'all", "you all", or "you guys".

Blind Rasputin posted:

They is singular. These is the pleural of they.

I would like to inform thou that these is the plural of this, not they.

The Gadfly fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Oct 17, 2020

cheesetriangles
Jan 5, 2011



Release the game with Esperanto voice acting only.

Archer666
Dec 27, 2008



gently caress it, no voices and black and white mode only. Cyberpunk 2077: Silent Film edition.

queeb
Jun 10, 2004

m





Grimey Drawer

im going corpo first

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Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

make the localization random, you cowards

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