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Plenty of cyberpunk characters don't have much or any cyberware. All Case's stuff does is prevent him from taking uppers, fix his broken nervous system, and let him Jack in again.
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Jul 1, 2018 18:39
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El_Elegante posted:Lmao, CDPR should have drawn more inspiration from real life when it comes to commodifying sex and gender for consumer products. Just in time for pride, I give you megacorp MasterCard’s beautiful co-opting of #acceptance. Christophers are not welcome around here 
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Jun 21, 2019 18:11
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I think the inventory system in MGS5 is probably the closest to allowing you sufficient freedom but making your load out choice a game decision.
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Jul 25, 2019 00:33
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Clean my room? Clean my room? Ugh. Its an aethetic mom. Also though, pretty sure that's what will happen here. Cyberpunk aesthetic will persist beyond a cyberpunk story. Maybe this will get us all sick of Cyberpunk and society will move on.
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May 19, 2020 17:27
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SniperWoreConverse posted:the true innovation away from levels and HP is dwarf fortress style health where if you get chopped by an axe you die because specific blood vessels rupture Sanity and injury systems. By the time you kill 6,000 people and get to max level, your knees are busted so you can't run, you have trouble closing your left hand so you have to put your weapon away before interacting with objects in the game, and you're always suffering the effects of sleep deprivation or chemical addiction because when you close your eyes, all you see is their faces.
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May 22, 2020 00:27
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necrobobsledder posted:I'm curious how firearms laws apply differently when using pellet and air rifle type weapons. And more importantly, how does the Cyberpunk universe say we went from our current society to one where firearms laws don't really work anymore when every other person is strapped and it's a corporatist/libertarian type social contract? I think this is only the case when you go Pink Mohawk and is a result of GMs not knowing whats in a players inventory until they pull it out two sessions later and not wanting to retain the last three games. If I recall older versions, concealment was an important consideration for this reason. And in the game, its because its a video game and the primary gaming loop is clicking on heads.
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Jun 4, 2020 15:22
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Bunch of people in this thread still going to buy the fur, they just want you to know that it's murder and quite a sad state if affairs that they have no choice. It is really nice, after all.
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Jun 21, 2020 16:55
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Wicked Them Beats posted:And god knows CDPR can afford it; the guy running the place is literally a billionaire. God may know but I don't. The argument was made earlier that adding more people to a software design product doesn't increase the speed it develops, which was dismissed as the result of poor management. This is explained as if it were fully demonstrated, but it wasn't demonstrated. I wonder if you even can can buy the 'proper management' necessary? Can you buy more management and get out of the crunch situation? Are there examples of the right way? The way you try to avoid this in large scale government projects is by extending the development time and funds or including a risk based architecture that cans the project much sooner in the development when it fails to meet appropriate milestones. Does that work with these large scale multidisciplinary art projects like film and games? If that does work, there needs to be a why. This isnt voting or services distribution or taxes where no matter how you do it someone from someone's point of view is disadvantaged but you must decide a way anyway or nobody gets necessities. This is entirely a luxury product that you don't need, bought by people unwilling to stand by their opinions, created by people unwilling to work in another industry. More of many of these peoples time will be spent on this than on any of society's ills this year. If we strongly believe things must change, we should be looking at ourselves first. I'm also a bullshit hypocrite arguing about arguing about games instead of doing something productive right now. Thread moves fast.
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Jun 21, 2020 17:47
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Hakkesshu posted:Crunch is destructive and unnecessary, but it's also not just something you get rid of from one day to the next. The way project management works in a company of that size means it's intrinsically connected to the working culture as well, and it requires a complete and gradual transformation of the way the company functions, which is definitely not possible to do with a project that is as far along as Cyberpunk is. Even delaying the game further probably wouldn't result in less crunch just because company processes are built around these very specific working methods that everyone, especially the managers, are psychologically and often professionally bound by, since they have to meet their targets. I like this post because of its well reasoned and acknowledges nuance, but you probably could choose to spend your time and money playing indy games unless a company can demonstrate that they followed what you deem to be reasonable employment practices.
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Jun 21, 2020 17:52
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Hakkesshu posted:Maybe that's a bad attitude to have, but these problems are way larger than any one person can do anything about unless they're like a politician or a worker's representative within a company. But hey it's good praxis to support those causes within your own company and community too. I'm not sure it's bad by itself, but if one's view is that this is a powerful abuse singularly caused by corporate greed, I think yelling about it on the internet while still giving them your money is a way to trick your brain into feeling good without having to feel responsible. I don't think you think this is singularly caused by that motive. I think you understand that there exists a complexity of interactions and relationships that unfortunately gives this crunch strategy advantage, though actions such as worker strikes and legislation could nullify the advantages of that strategy. Some posters in this thread do not communicate a belief in that nuance. It has been stated that crunch is always mismanagement and that crunch is an abusive deathmarch. It seems remarkable to me that those with such a singular view are willing to associate with the product when the perceived cost for not associating with a deathmarch is as low as 'not playing Cyberpunk 2077'. Of course, the perceived cost for not interacting with this product isn't really as low as I described. We have social and emotional investments that our experiences and social networks established and the marketing campaign used to sell us this game manipulated and amplified. Whether remarkable or not, I think people are more likely to take actual action if they don't feel absolution solely for saying things on the internet.
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Jun 21, 2020 18:46
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alex314 posted:I don't think game being indie makes crunch impossible. This is definitely true. A subset of indie games are created by one person and many are small teams working together with equal stakes and loose management structures. It's harder to describe crunch in those cases as non-consenting and abusive. It's more of self-abuse in those cases. If you are an employer or a manager, you have a responsibility to those under your cognizance to ensure that they have at least consented to the ways that they work. Its easiest to be sure that a team of one consists of a consenting party; my assumption is that, all else equal, the difficulty rises with team size from there. Your statement is an important one, however. Large groups have certain protections almost by default, where as a small team heavily invested in a project has a dangerous opportunity to isolate, trap, and therefore abuse its members. I revise my opinion: I don't think an indie-label by itself is a sufficient condition for an ethically sourced game, but that more ethically-sourced games are probably located in that space. piL fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jun 21, 2020 |
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Jun 21, 2020 18:56
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If you think thats dark, you'll never believe what artists did to make paintings stop looking like this.
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Jun 23, 2020 02:18
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Is it even controversial to say witnessing an autopsy is less traumatic than watching a murder? No? Sorry there's a few points rolling around that makes the last page of interactions a nightmare to interpret. And every statement feels like an attack on one another. That its hosed up people were encouraged to subject themselves to trauma for a luxury entertainment product is not a point I disagree with. Where I get lost between the ironic posting of some and the possible presumptions of others is this: because it isn't justified to do that (one shouldn't do it), then people shouldn't be forced to it (one shouldn't have to), then in order to accomplish the objective it shouldnt be necessary (one shouldnt have to), and therefore people should have been able to communicate the emotive qualities of death from their imagination. Again, I can't tell if its because people are posting ironically, but this appears to be an equivocation around the idea of should. It seems that some people have no idea what artists are doing when they spend years drawing things from life, as if what they're looking at is somehow disconnected from learning to create images of it. Which then means that all the naked models in art studio classes across the world are perverse accoutrement and all the people spending countless hours renderering fruit are even weirder. I agree that it is traumatic, and I think we should be wrestling with the complexities of our complicity in a perverse system. Is it appropriate to pay people to traumatize their employees? Is it appropriate to censor the creation of this material because of the trauma it leverages on its creators? How does the consent of the employees and the consumer play into this? Presumably like most of you, I am not in the Cyberpunk thread solely for the visual aesthetic. piL fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 03:04
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chitoryu12 posted:Okay, Mr. Art Teacher, I am someone who has actually done this (looked at videos of actual death and mutilation for reference purposes for work) so I can chime in here. It doesn't seem to me that Rodd has argued that it was ethical, only that there are plausible motivations for people to do it. I can't speak for Rodd and maybe they do have that opinion, but it seems that people are talking past each other and using glib nonspecific statements (not you, but I'm totally guilty of doing it above) to avoid making any points that that could be rationally discussed by another poster.
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Jun 23, 2020 03:51
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homullus posted:My specific statements: an artist's knowledge of anatomy from reference books and life drawing, plus imagination and requisite animation skills, is 100% sufficient background for animating MK Fatalities. Requiring people to watch recorded deaths for this purpose has zero plausible basis. I appreciate the clear restatement. Based on my observations I believe that drawing expressions from life is better than video, is better than photographs for a reason, and that all of these work to help communicate emotive properties that are the domain of 2d art. Based on this experience and belief. I find it plausible that one can more convincingly communicate the horrific violence they're trying to communicate when they experience it themselves. I dont think we're conceptually at odds, however. It leads me to question 'Do we need this?' Are we willing to accept the costs of this for this unnecessary result? I bring consent and censorship into the conversation because if a private artist acting singly wanted to make a serious statement about violence via a painting or some other art, and researched violence to make it more effective, I'm not convinced we should cede their free speech rights to protect them from trauma. But I think when you subject others to behaviors for a wage, you have ethical obligations to: A: ensure that employees, with full understanding of the cost, chose this (consent). B: ensure that the intended result is worth the cost. (E.g. subjecting' EMTs and surgeons to real-life traumatic situations is worth it to save lives, muder-porn in video games perhaps less so). C: that additional risks are proportionately accounted for and avoided when possible (I dont know enough about trauma to know if this works, but my intuition suggests hiring enough EMTs and surgeons to spread the amount of traumatic experiences they are subjected to without intervention from a mental health specialist--if it were my responsibility to hire people to jobs with traumatic experiences, I would have an obligation to know more). I believe that the creators have certainly violated A and probably violated B and C. How do we avoid this in our society? That becomes tricky. If we stop aghast, and refuse to acknowledge the plausibility (not certainty), or at least that other rational actors believe it plausible, then we cannot rationally get to thinking about the next step and then the fix. It's for this reason I find an ethical imperative to defend that point, despite its distate--I hope I've provided sufficient argument that I don't support subjecting artists to that trauma. piL fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 05:09
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chitoryu12 posted:If you're talking about whether or not it's appropriate to let people experience this when lives depend on it, I think we're talking about two radically different subjects. It's going to cause PTSD of some form anyway no matter the reason you're doing it, but desensitizing EMTs and surgeons to gore is vital for saving lives. You don't want your paramedic to just run away to throw up in the bushes instead of saving you. And I think that means that people who actually graduate to the point of being an EMT or surgeon or whatever are going to be the people who already have a mindset and implicit consent to push through the reactions for the betterment of their fellow man. I agree entirely, and used emergency medicine to establish contrast. I wanted context so we can specify what makes this instance of something we're willing to accept elsewhere (subjecting employees to traumatic experiences)unacceptable in this instance--to establish why its not OK in more specific terms than our general discomfort with the idea. MK11's use of traumatic injury in its development is not OK. Its not OK because gorey entertainment is not sufficient reason to subject employees to this damage. Its not OK because consent was not established. Its not OK because appropriate effort was not taken to manage risk, distribute load, and provide care for those injured by the experience. Those second and third point are contingent upon assumptions about how the company works that I do not have knowledge about, but I dont need that knowledge to describe the situation as unacceptable because of the first point. I don't think they're the same thing. piL fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 06:07
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Bust Rodd posted:I wish we could know if the employees were forced to do it or if they were just doing because they wanted the references themselves. This is why I wanted to break it down the way I did. About the only situation I can think of that doesn't run the risk of having a person getting the job without full informed disclosure and then being forced to accept social, financial, and prestige costs to back out would be if they were explicitly hired as freelancers with the gravity of the material expressed before the job was accepted. Anything short of this risks putting employees in a position where they feel stuck and unable to not participate. That risk is unethical, even if coincidence results in the entire team consenting. Even if this is the case, because the the material still generates sufficient risk of harm that, while consent could have been obtained individually, there's still overarching obligation to coordinate access to mental health resources. This could be by providing access to resources directly funded by the company or by the company requiring freelancers to prove access to treatment (presuming the pay is appropriately increased to compensate). If this is a problem as evidenced by the articles, then (now that its known) future firms should feel compelled to take some sort of action similar to what I'm describing here. Edit: and actually, even if the first set of conditions are met, there is still an argument to be made that financial incentives will drive people to be needlessly exposed to risk. But we assume this kind of risk for all of our consumer goods and services in general, so its a bit more palatable. All of that comes down to 'why do we need or want this product to exist?' Is that sufficient value to accept these risks? Its hard to math that out with artistic projects and I tend to be more willing to accept everything here for a film than for a game out of biases. But if that film is just schlock and isn't using the violence to communicate something valuable, id feel comfortable saying the movie betrayed society permissibility and trust. Because movies do this routinely isnt sufficient cause to outlaw it. I can conceive that a game, exhibiting dangerously extracted violence to communicate a point so valuable so viscerally that these costs could be worth it. But I'll bet MK11 isn't it. piL fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 07:04
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. I dont want to post that anymore.
piL fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 08:06
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Thought this said "actual orgies" at first Natural 20 posted:Wiimote and Nunchuck support or no buy,
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Jun 26, 2020 01:29
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Combat Pretzel posted:Just started watching the 20min gameplay video I missed up until now. Car driving already bothers me sound-design wise, because apparently CP2077 cars have a million gears, too. Gas powered cars confirmed.
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Jun 27, 2020 09:45
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homullus posted:You die in real life whether you play the game or not. Can that which has never truly lived, truly die?
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Jun 28, 2020 19:43
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It'd be interesting narratively for someone to release a game where instead of the 60% side material expected to be completed alongside or before the 20% main quest with maybe 20% replay/post-campaign content if someone flipped that script and the main quest introduces the world and sets the stage for your open world sandbox. 30 hours into the game: fight epic fight, credits roll, screen fades to black "Man, that nerevarine poo poo was pretty insane, right? So like I was saying, head down the docks to the census office and they'll finish your release." MGSV spoiler I guess thats what they did here.
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Jun 29, 2020 17:26
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Why's this person so mad about the use of a word that's been been utilized in that fashion for 20 years?
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Jun 29, 2020 22:57
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homullus posted:I hadn't seen it and have been also been playing video games longer than most of you have been alive. I am not convinced akimbo = dual wield is as widespread as you think, and akimbo = wearing two of something is a sad kind of confusion. I think in your case, the astounding part is an adult is being a jerk to someone for their use of the word. The exact commonality is immaterial, you didn't seem to get the reference and were insulting about it. Even if its rare in general, a cyberpunk game thread is exactly the place for lingo at the intersection between hongkong action films and video games. But its not a place for you to dismiss people as children or compare them to confederate icons for references you don't understand. That you've played games longer than most of us have been alive, but missed Blood, Action Quake, and The Opera is truly tragic. But your tragedy isn't justification to lash out. Edit: I never played Blood 
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Jun 30, 2020 00:56
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homullus posted:whoa now, let's not say things we don't mean. Maybe you haven't had statues pulled down in your area recently, but in places that happens, people start petitions to replace them with things that are better. It wasn't a "comparison to Confederate icons." A lot of posturing. A lack of accepting responsibility. It can't be that your phrasing was ambiguous. You could just say thats not what I meant, but instead my 'misunderstanding' of your point is attributed to your baseless insinuation that my lived experience doesn't have this extra layer of depth in it that yours does. You appear so threatened and I don't understand or care much why. Its clear though that you do. But it doesn't help. Nobody thinks more highly of you for it. So it was a nonsequitor reference to your lived experience and not a comparison to confederate icons that succeeded your dismissal of this person for their use of language, despite that use being fairly legitimate in context though not sufficiently referenced to save you from embarassment. Got it.
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Jun 30, 2020 01:11
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Please, Mr. Studd is my father's name. Call me Hugh.
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Jun 30, 2020 22:11
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Yawn. Wake me up when you can die in chargen.
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Jul 2, 2020 22:14
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Arglebargle III posted:Unarmed takedowns fade out into an animation like Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Unlike DX: HR that animation is a 10-12 minute cutscene exploring the victim's life story and history of intersectional oppression under a racist and classist capitalist system. My favorite GM tactic. I kill the guard. Jfc. Alright. What's he got on him. Eh, he's we wearing a gold band. In his wallet are a bunch of credit cards, a picture of an adult woman and a young boy taken two years ago. Two train tickets for Anaheim for tomorrow. A movie ticket stubb from nine years ago and another one from a re-release three years ago. A folded up obituary for a 31 year old mother of one survived by her husband and seven year old son.
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Jul 4, 2020 19:29
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Cyberpunk as escapism isn't punk.
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Jul 10, 2020 21:33
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Skippy McPants posted:I don't know why CDPR spent dev resources on genital configuration since that's one of those things you can count on modders to take care of on day one. You gotta think, the heyday of Morrowind Mods was years after release--how much quicker would it have been if the right tools were available from the start?
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Jul 11, 2020 07:53
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