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Theta Zero
Dec 22, 2014

I've seen it.


Ghost Leviathan posted:

How many knife dogs do video games have? They need their own Smash Bros.

Well, there's Dark Souls.

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Mr. Locke
Jul 28, 2010


I can think of at least five with zero effort:

- Sif from Dark Souls
- Repede from Tales of Vesperia
- Koromaru from Persona 3
- Zacian from Pokemon Sword
- New Good Boys from Monster Hunter

So the answer is 'likely a lot'

Zuzie
Jun 30, 2005

I got this for a Ratatta on GTS.



Wolves are cool, swords are cool, so its no brainer that they'd combine them despite a lack of hands to wield a sword properly.

Lux Animus
Apr 17, 2016

Posts from the end of the world




Dinosaur Gum

Mr. Locke posted:

I can think of at least five with zero effort:

- Sif from Dark Souls
- Repede from Tales of Vesperia
- Koromaru from Persona 3
- Zacian from Pokemon Sword
- New Good Boys from Monster Hunter

So the answer is 'likely a lot'

what the gently caress did you not play Okami?

signalnoise
Mar 7, 2008


nioh

Mr. Locke
Jul 28, 2010


Lux Animus posted:

what the gently caress did you not play Okami?

Naw, I just really don't think of the Glaive much. Like, it's not common when a doggo gets a cooler weapon then a sword, but Okami gave Ammy two.

And, as said, no effort top of my head.

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012



D-Dog can have a knife.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 41 hours!


And don't forget Blade Wolf, though he has a bit of his own thing going on.

Parrotine
Dec 19, 2012

Wolverine with Parrots!


Lux Animus posted:

what the gently caress did you not play Okami?

Could you blame him? Nobody played that game, it famously tanked in sales despite their best efforts of promotion.

Bleck
Jan 7, 2014




more people would have played okami if it the first hour of the game wasn't famously slow and plodding

that's a 10/10 game with the intro of a 2/10 game

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 41 hours!


Eh, slow and plodding is definitely the whole game.

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

Down the Rabbit Hole.



Theta Zero posted:

Well, there's Dark Souls.



Bloodborne too!:

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


IronicDongz
Aug 18, 2013

there he goes

https://mobile.twitter.com/ceIshader/status/1378051115602870272

he's right

Twisted Eye
Jan 6, 2011


Ghost Leviathan posted:

How many knife dogs do video games have? They need their own Smash Bros.

Put the master sword in twilight princess wolf's mouth and we can finally have our fourth Link

nexous
Jan 14, 2003


Got my 10th char into elite. Pyra/mythra. Who wants to critique my final battle getting to elite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNru5KpavTA

I know I try to read too hard and end up whiffing. I need to spot dodge more.

Theta Zero
Dec 22, 2014

I've seen it.


nexous posted:

Got my 10th char into elite. Pyra/mythra. Who wants to critique my final battle getting to elite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNru5KpavTA

I know I try to read too hard and end up whiffing. I need to spot dodge more.

0:03 You shouldn't really drop down from a platform and approach unless you're doing an offensive option. I'd practice doing drop-down aerials if you haven't.

0:07 You wasted your double jump to reach a ledge you could've grabbed with just your recovery move. This is a bad habit you should break immediately.

0:14 You didn't fastfall here. You weren't punished for it but your options widen greatly when you speed up your movement.

0:15 Dash attacks in general aren't safe, and Donkey Kong isn't at a percent where it would've feasibly killed. You were punished for this. A dash into tilt or aerial would've served you better.

0:17 Dodging in is generally unsafe, and you were punished for it immediately. A neutral dodge or a dodge to ledge would've served you better. This DK player seems to go for forward airs offstage constantly, so keeping this in mind while in a disadvantaged state is key.

0:28 This is another scenario where a drop-down aerial would've helped, because you just ate the shield pressure since your options to punish were otherwise limited.

0:38 You wasted your double jump to get about five frame's worth of vertical height only to immediately use your recovery which would've reached with anyway, so this is definitely a habit you have and should break.

0:41 A risky move, but it would've worked if you didn't jump to do it. You may have been expecting the DK to jump, but seeing as he clearly prefers grounded options to approach, there's no reason to have done this.

0:45 You jumped out of hitstun, which is another bad habit a lot of players have. Your double jump is precious, especially as players go for edge guards more often, so you really need to use it more carefully.

1:00 I'm actually more critical of the DK for this, because he's making zero effort to edgeguard or contest anyone at ledge.

1:08 This is another scenario where dash attack got you punished. While a dash attack would've killed at that percent, there's no reason to believe DK wouldn't be on the defensive yet still be able to have been hit landing from an empty jump.

1:20 This is just a generally weird way to handle your opponent's invulnerability coming from the recovery platform. At this point, giving up stage control would've been safer, but the DK didn't capitalize on this.

1:26 You didn't get punished for this, but this was another unsafe dash attack. A dash into up tilt would've given you more to work off of and definitely would've landed, especially since your character's dash attack is more horizontal than vertical. You follow this up by trying to catch a landing with a dash attack again, which also whiffs.

1:30 Dashing head-first into a charged smash was needlessly risky. The reward is definitely not worth losing a decent percent stock that early.

1:42 It seems you were baiting the DK's recovery, which is good. If you hadn't noticed at this point, this DK always recovers high.

1:56 Another bad dash attack. For some reason, the DK tries to punish with rolling in.

2:00 I have zero idea why you would use your up special for this, but the DK is letting you get away with murder at this point. A better option would've either been to try hitting them with an up aerial or bait an air dodge by feinting.

2:10 This was a good decision, since the DK seems to heavily rely on approaching with dash attacks, and it paid off for you.

2:13 Once again, you really shouldn't try contesting the invulnerability frames of a freshly-spawned opponent. You're exceedingly lucky that up smash didn't just kill you.

2:20 This would've been better as a tilt, because the shield stun on DK's forward smash is far too strong for you to punish it with a smash attack.

2:25 Weird time to swap. Doesn't Mythra have a better recovery?

2:43 You got punished for it, but using a smash here was a fairly calculated risk. This DK hasn't give you a reason to believe he's adapted to you up to this point. But now it's clear he's becoming more defensive as he holds on to his final stock.

2:45 Jumping over his dash attack barely worked out for you, as you'll notice an orange spark coming from Pyra's foot, meaning you got a phantom hit. In other words, the DK's dash attack was a sliver away from hitting you. Taking the shield pressure would've been a safer bet, since this DK has grabbed all of one time this whole game.

2:50 DK's up attacks cover the whole platform, so doing a neutral get up would've been safer and faster than getting up from the side. You got lucky enough that the DK badly whiffed his punishes. This is also another instance where a drop down aerial would've helped you.

2:58 Ridiculously unsafe landing option. You shouldn't have been landing in on DK to begin with, but trying to catch him off guard with this absurdly slow and predictable move is possibly the worse option you could've picked.

All in all, I'd say your problems are some badly habits and not making reads on your opponent. There weren't many instances where spot dodging would've helped you, and while you have a few bad habits, you don't rely on rolls at all which is an excellent sign, since most players will treat rolls as their only defensive options. My biggest suggestion, outside of trying to read your opponent more, is to go for safer options such as tilts where you won't get punished as harshly should you miss. I'd also practice doing dash into tilts or drop down aerials to give you more options when playing against an opponent.

Theta Zero fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Apr 4, 2021

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story


Theta Zero posted:

you don't rely on rolls at all which is an excellent sign, since most players will treat rolls as their only defensive options.

I never roll at all, truly I am an expert Smash player and didn't know this whole time.

nexous
Jan 14, 2003


Theta Zero posted:

0:03 You shouldn't really drop down from a platform and approach unless you're doing an offensive option. I'd practice doing drop-down aerials if you haven't.

0:07 You wasted your double jump to reach a ledge you could've grabbed with just your recovery move. This is a bad habit you should break immediately.

0:14 You didn't fastfall here. You weren't punished for it but your options widen greatly when you speed up your movement.

0:15 Dash attacks in general aren't safe, and Donkey Kong isn't at a percent where it would've feasibly killed. You were punished for this. A dash into tilt or aerial would've served you better.

0:17 Dodging in is generally unsafe, and you were punished for it immediately. A neutral dodge or a dodge to ledge would've served you better. This DK player seems to go for forward airs offstage constantly, so keeping this in mind while in a disadvantaged state is key.

0:28 This is another scenario where a drop-down aerial would've helped, because you just ate the shield pressure since your options to punish were otherwise limited.

0:38 You wasted your double jump to get about five frame's worth of vertical height only to immediately use your recovery which would've reached with anyway, so this is definitely a habit you have and should break.

0:41 A risky move, but it would've worked if you didn't jump to do it. You may have been expecting the DK to jump, but seeing as he clearly prefers grounded options to approach, there's no reason to have done this.

0:45 You jumped out of hitstun, which is another bad habit a lot of players have. Your double jump is precious, especially as players go for edge guards more often, so you really need to use it more carefully.

1:00 I'm actually more critical of the DK for this, because he's making zero effort to edgeguard or contest anyone at ledge.

1:08 This is another scenario where dash attack got you punished. While a dash attack would've killed at that percent, there's no reason to believe DK wouldn't be on the defensive yet still be able to have been hit landing from an empty jump.

1:20 This is just a generally weird way to handle your opponent's invulnerability coming from the recovery platform. At this point, giving up stage control would've been safer, but the DK didn't capitalize on this.

1:26 You didn't get punished for this, but this was another unsafe dash attack. A dash into up tilt would've given you more to work off of and definitely would've landed, especially since your character's dash attack is more horizontal than vertical. You follow this up by trying to catch a landing with a dash attack again, which also whiffs.

1:30 Dashing head-first into a charged smash was needlessly risky. The reward is definitely not worth losing a decent percent stock that early.

1:42 It seems you were baiting the DK's recovery, which is good. If you hadn't noticed at this point, this DK always recovers high.

1:56 Another bad dash attack. For some reason, the DK tries to punish with rolling in.

2:00 I have zero idea why you would use your up special for this, but the DK is letting you get away with murder at this point. A better option would've either been to try hitting them with an up aerial or bait an air dodge by feinting.

2:10 This was a good decision, since the DK seems to heavily rely on approaching with dash attacks, and it paid off for you.

2:13 Once again, you really shouldn't try contesting the invulnerability frames of a freshly-spawned opponent. You're exceedingly lucky that up smash didn't just kill you.

2:20 This would've been better as a tilt, because the shield stun on DK's forward smash is far too strong for you to punish it with a smash attack.

2:25 Weird time to swap. Doesn't Mythra have a better recovery?

2:43 You got punished for it, but using a smash here was a fairly calculated risk. This DK hasn't give you a reason to believe he's adapted to you up to this point. But now it's clear he's becoming more defensive as he holds on to his final stock.

2:45 Jumping over his dash attack barely worked out for you, as you'll notice an orange spark coming from Pyra's foot, meaning you got a phantom hit. In other words, the DK's dash attack was a sliver away from hitting you. Taking the shield pressure would've been a safer bet, since this DK has grabbed all of one time this whole game.

2:50 DK's up attacks cover the whole platform, so doing a neutral get up would've been safer and faster than getting up from the side. You got lucky enough that the DK badly whiffed his punishes. This is also another instance where a drop down aerial would've helped you.

2:58 Ridiculously unsafe landing option. You shouldn't have been landing in on DK to begin with, but trying to catch him off guard with this absurdly slow and predictable move is possibly the worse option you could've picked.

All in all, I'd say your problems are some badly habits and not making reads on your opponent. There weren't many instances where spot dodging would've helped you, and while you have a few bad habits, you don't rely on rolls at all which is an excellent sign, since most players will treat rolls as their only defensive options. My biggest suggestion, outside of trying to read your opponent more, is to go for safer options such as tilts where you won't get punished as harshly should you miss. I'd also practice doing dash into tilts or drop down aerials to give you more options when playing against an opponent.

This is all immensely helpful, thank you. The answer to most of your questions is that this is my first smash/fighting game and have learned everything from trial/error playing online and thus have no idea what Iím doing.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013





Twelve by Pies posted:

I never roll at all, truly I am an expert Smash player and didn't know this whole time.

I played so much Smash 64 and then Melee that I never broke the habit. I know you could spot dodge in Melee, but I was too far gone by that point. I'm getting better at it though, I tend to just run away or straight shield as much as I do roll. I will never spot dodge.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


I just fought a Megaman on quickplay who was moving so fast it was like his game was on fastfoward. How you move so fast!!!!!

Mr. Locke
Jul 28, 2010


Macaluso posted:

I just fought a Megaman on quickplay who was moving so fast it was like his game was on fastfoward. How you move so fast!!!!!

Mega Man's not a slow character and has to stand still for almost nothing in his kit. If he wants to be a spammy elusive bastard and abuse ledge cancels and use slides and top spins to zip around the stage, the only thing stopping him is your ability to cut off space. MM also has a very good air speed and one of the fastest falling speeds in the game, so a lot of characters can really struggle to catch a MM who commits to hop nonsense to keep moving, since his short hop is really goddamn quick- a Mega Man who knows how to back-hop pellet without losing much speed is a goddamn nightmare. About the only thing holding him back is that his ground speed itself without any of his movement tricks is pretty bad, so he's going to need to get fancy to stay mobile instead of just running away.

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

Down the Rabbit Hole.



Macaluso posted:

I just fought a Megaman on quickplay who was moving so fast it was like his game was on fastfoward. How you move so fast!!!!!

Could have been using a hacked Switch and modded his game.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


sigher posted:

Could have been using a hacked Switch and modded his game.

Oh I wasn't actually implying I thought it was a hacking player, I'm just always shocked at how utterly fast some players are able to move online

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.




Timing the retreating short hop pellets is hard though, but so rewarding as the player tilts into oblivion.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


I just fought Hungrybox for real on elite. I had to double check his stream to make sure it was actually him. I didn't win obviously, but I got him to one stock so I feel like I did decently well against an actual pro player.

Skeletome
Feb 4, 2011




Well played! What was the matchup?

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


Skeletome posted:

Well played! What was the matchup?

Jigglypuff vs Bowser Jr. Also I still roll too much

Theta Zero
Dec 22, 2014

I've seen it.


Mr. Locke
Jul 28, 2010


Beamed posted:

Timing the retreating short hop pellets is hard though, but so rewarding as the player tilts into oblivion.

There's just something about seeing Mega Man move away from them while putting out lemons between himself and them that starts the angry screeching in their lizard brains. It's beautiful.

signalnoise
Mar 7, 2008


Mr. Locke posted:

There's just something about seeing Mega Man move away from them while putting out lemons between himself and them that starts the angry screeching in their lizard brains. It's beautiful.

Racking up like 80% with nothing but lemons and knocking them away with a point blank lemon as soon as they manage to close in is one of life's greatest pleasures

Vandar
Sep 13, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?







Mr. Locke posted:

I can think of at least five with zero effort:

- Sif from Dark Souls
- Repede from Tales of Vesperia
- Koromaru from Persona 3
- Zacian from Pokemon Sword
- New Good Boys from Monster Hunter

So the answer is 'likely a lot'

There's one in World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria, too.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh
one down.


also Wolf from Sekiro

Maple Leaf
Aug 24, 2010

Let'en my post flyen true


idk why but I always get the impression that every single Jigglypuff on Elite Smash is loving furious at something

b_d
Sep 10, 2017



Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


Jigglypuff's like, right hook does an insane amount of shield damage, what is that about

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004




Ultra Carp

Macaluso posted:

Jigglypuff's like, right hook does an insane amount of shield damage, what is that about

Jigglypuff is a troll character generally

signalnoise
Mar 7, 2008


Jigglypuff doesn't really hit you, it just makes you feel really gross because you got touched by it and eventually you recoil in horror so bad that you jump away

Reiley
Dec 16, 2007




Macaluso posted:

Jigglypuff's like, right hook does an insane amount of shield damage, what is that about

It's equivalent exchange, it earned that power at the cost of what happens when its own shield pops.

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Lux Animus
Apr 17, 2016

Posts from the end of the world




Dinosaur Gum

Macaluso posted:

Jigglypuff's like, right hook does an insane amount of shield damage, what is that about

Jigglypuff's Mega Punch originally used the Paper Fan sound effect on hit IIRC, a shield-swatting item that is no longer in the game.

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