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oddium
Feb 20, 2006


jigglypuff is so fun

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sharrrk
Feb 13, 2012

It's time to party!


Lux Animus posted:

Jigglypuff's Mega Punch originally used the Paper Fan sound effect on hit IIRC, a shield-swatting item that is no longer in the game.

its pound, op

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004




Ultra Carp

Jigglypuff is the most powerful fighter, pound for pound

JesustheDarkLord
May 22, 2006

#VolsDeep


Lipstick Apathy

I am usually puffing around in elite during the day while the kids are in school and I am never angry

Zuzie
Jun 30, 2005

I got this for a Ratatta on GTS.



It's quite a jump in power level since Jigglypuff in the Pokémon games is complete trash and even Wigglytuff is kind of bad, even with buffs like gaining a fairy type and Competitive as an ability.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






Saw a leak that there's another extra secret additional fighter that they're going to reveal in this challenger pack. Might've been an April Fool's video and I just didn't do the day math on a on video I wasn't bothered to watch.

Gave me an idea. Like how FighterZ added SS4 Gogeta and he breaks the game entirely because he has a meter that increases to level 7 and if you do that then his Level 3 super kills your opponent no matter what if it connects and he has one move that immediately gives you a Dragon Ball, they're doing the same thing here. It's another Fire Emblem character. But they embody the series more than the other characters. You land enough hits/ KOs on other characters? They level up. You might get more attack or defense or HP or all of them or none of them, it's all RNG.

And even more competitively banned character than Hero!

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 41 hours!


Zuzie posted:

It's quite a jump in power level since Jigglypuff in the Pokémon games is complete trash and even Wigglytuff is kind of bad, even with buffs like gaining a fairy type and Competitive as an ability.

Pretty similar to how Pikachu and Raichu in the games are mediocre at best. But might be that Jigglypuff (along with its cute pink counterpart Clefairy) was apparently considered as a primary mascot of the franchise, and the anime uses it a lot basically as a plot device and/or filler. (I mostly remember the episode where Jigglypuff gets into a slapfight with an entire spaceship full of Clefairy, that was fun) And Sing is way overpowered even in Smash, let alone in the anime, since in the games it's a ridiculously inaccurate move.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Ghost Leviathan posted:

Pretty similar to how Pikachu and Raichu in the games are mediocre at best. But might be that Jigglypuff (along with its cute pink counterpart Clefairy) was apparently considered as a primary mascot of the franchise, and the anime uses it a lot basically as a plot device and/or filler. (I mostly remember the episode where Jigglypuff gets into a slapfight with an entire spaceship full of Clefairy, that was fun) And Sing is way overpowered even in Smash, let alone in the anime, since in the games it's a ridiculously inaccurate move.

yeah jiggly was going to be The Pokemon before they decided that pikachu was a better fit for the overall style of the original 151, although it was still a pretty prominent pokemon in the first gen media. this betrayal is why jigglypuff is filled with unholy rage

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


RareAcumen posted:

And even more competitively banned character than Hero!
so, not banned whatsoever, and also not banned due to rng?

the complaint pros had with hero was that his menu meant there was a language barrier, thats why people wanted him banned. it had nothing to do with rng.

multijoe
Oct 15, 2007

NYO~HO


Endorph posted:

so, not banned whatsoever, and also not banned due to rng?

the complaint pros had with hero was that his menu meant there was a language barrier, thats why people wanted him banned. it had nothing to do with rng.

I think there were a couple of minor Australian scenes that banned him for RNG but it's never really caught on thankfully

LanceKing2200
Mar 27, 2007
Brilliant!!

Endorph posted:

so, not banned whatsoever, and also not banned due to rng?

the complaint pros had with hero was that his menu meant there was a language barrier, thats why people wanted him banned. it had nothing to do with rng.

Hero's RNG was 100% taken into consideration when discussing his ban, although the language barrier is the most tangible reason. It may come up again now that we have a high level Japanese Hero player floating around.

The reality of that situation is that Hero simply isn't good enough in a 1v1 meta to get the support for banning. If he was a top tier he absolutely would've been banned.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Jazerus posted:

yeah jiggly was going to be The Pokemon before they decided that pikachu was a better fit for the overall style of the original 151, although it was still a pretty prominent pokemon in the first gen media. this betrayal is why jigglypuff is filled with unholy rage

That was Clefairy, not Jigglypuff. Jigglypuff only became popular due to the anime.

Endorph posted:

the complaint pros had with hero was that his menu meant there was a language barrier, thats why people wanted him banned. it had nothing to do with rng.

The language barrier is definitely an issue with Hero. I can play him just fine in my house (where I have my Smash set to English) but I can't play him for poo poo on a friend's house (who plays games in Spanish). It's kind of a pain, and I imagine it'd be just as bad or worse on the receiving side.

Supersonic Shine
Oct 13, 2012


RareAcumen posted:

Saw a leak that there's another extra secret additional fighter that they're going to reveal in this challenger pack. Might've been an April Fool's video and I just didn't do the day math on a on video I wasn't bothered to watch.

Gave me an idea. Like how FighterZ added SS4 Gogeta and he breaks the game entirely because he has a meter that increases to level 7 and if you do that then his Level 3 super kills your opponent no matter what if it connects and he has one move that immediately gives you a Dragon Ball, they're doing the same thing here. It's another Fire Emblem character. But they embody the series more than the other characters. You land enough hits/ KOs on other characters? They level up. You might get more attack or defense or HP or all of them or none of them, it's all RNG.

And even more competitively banned character than Hero!
On the bright side, this also means they actually have to take damage on their counter.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.



Games Idiot Court Jester


Hero remains zero fun to fight

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


RBA Starblade posted:

Hero remains zero fun to fight

Bounce goes on WAYYY too long

LanceKing2200
Mar 27, 2007
Brilliant!!

Yeah the gameplay style of "run away and fish for buffs and only engage when I'm temporarily the best character in the game" is super oppressive against characters that can't apply enough rushdown pressure to prevent that from happening.

signalnoise
Mar 7, 2008


RBA Starblade posted:

Hero remains zero fun to fight

he's fine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frz245nEd3E

Zuzie
Jun 30, 2005

I got this for a Ratatta on GTS.



https://twitter.com/NinEverything/status/1379600304207880192

Another spirit event is coming

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Did they ever add those two Spirits that could only be obtained by owning specific games (one Ghost n Goblins and Persona 5 Royal I think?) to the normal spirit pool?

Zuzie
Jun 30, 2005

I got this for a Ratatta on GTS.



Blaze Dragon posted:

Did they ever add those two Spirits that could only be obtained by owning specific games (one Ghost n Goblins and Persona 5 Royal I think?) to the normal spirit pool?

Not yet. I suspect that they'll be available normally when Fighter 10 is revealed and released.

Justin_Brett
Oct 23, 2012

GAMERDOME put down LOSER

I think they did if you mean Strikers.

Supersonic Shine
Oct 13, 2012


Sucks that new music never comes with these updates. I want to hear guttural chanting and a dramatic choir while smacking King Dedede with a magic wand on Mushroom Kingdom II.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






Endorph posted:

so, not banned whatsoever, and also not banned due to rng?

the complaint pros had with hero was that his menu meant there was a language barrier, thats why people wanted him banned. it had nothing to do with rng.

Oh, news to me. I don't play or pay attention to any competitive decisions so I assumed having skills like a reflector or buffs like Ooomph or Psyche Up wouldn't fly there.

sharrrk
Feb 13, 2012

It's time to party!


There isn't day that goes by that I don't thank the Lord that Hero is banned from competitive Super Smash Bros.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



RareAcumen posted:

Oh, news to me. I don't play or pay attention to any competitive decisions so I assumed having skills like a reflector or buffs like Ooomph or Psyche Up wouldn't fly there.

a few tournaments banned hero when he was first released but i think everyone realized pretty quickly that he just isn't particularly busted

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


I'd rather fight Hero than Pyra/Mythra ever again

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.



Games Idiot Court Jester


sharrrk posted:

There isn't day that goes by that I don't thank the Lord that Hero is banned from competitive Super Smash Bros.

I want No More Heroes in Smash

TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012



Macaluso posted:

I'd rather fight Hero than Pyra/Mythra ever again

Yeah but they’re the most fun to play character in the game so checkmate

Every character should play like Mythra feels to play, change my mind

LanceKing2200
Mar 27, 2007
Brilliant!!

Jazerus posted:

a few tournaments banned hero when he was first released but i think everyone realized pretty quickly that he just isn't particularly busted

This is the whole thing. Hero's RNG is absolutely anti-competitive, with crits and whack/thwack being the worst of it, but unless he's also as oppressive as Brawl MK or S4 Bayo, you'll never get the community to unify around a ban.

The theoretical reason for banning him based on RNG (as opposed to GnW or Peach who also have RNG) is that if you're down in the set and going to lose anyway, the "optimal" play is to swap to Hero and fish for Crits/Whack/Thwack and try to cheese a win. He's just not good enough or universally usable enough for that to have happened, but it's absolutely possible.

TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012



LanceKing2200 posted:

This is the whole thing. Hero's RNG is absolutely anti-competitive, with crits and whack/thwack being the worst of it, but unless he's also as oppressive as Brawl MK or S4 Bayo, you'll never get the community to unify around a ban.

The theoretical reason for banning him based on RNG (as opposed to GnW or Peach who also have RNG) is that if you're down in the set and going to lose anyway, the "optimal" play is to swap to Hero and fish for Crits/Whack/Thwack and try to cheese a win. He's just not good enough or universally usable enough for that to have happened, but it's absolutely possible.

GnW has a move with a 1/11 chance of instant killing on a connection, the argument here is a steaming pile

TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012



It’s all moot anyway though because everybody should be playing Pyra and Mythra, the most fun characters put into Super Smash Bros: Ultimate

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012



Blaze Dragon posted:

The language barrier is definitely an issue with Hero. I can play him just fine in my house (where I have my Smash set to English) but I can't play him for poo poo on a friend's house (who plays games in Spanish). It's kind of a pain, and I imagine it'd be just as bad or worse on the receiving side.

Optimal Hero play is blindly topdecking any spell as fast as you can, so this should be fine.

Bleck
Jan 7, 2014




Macaluso posted:

I'd rather fight Hero than Pyra/Mythra ever again

Kramdar
Jun 21, 2005

Radmark says....Worship Kramdar


If I played any Roy that was this bad, I would be getting players SD'ing on me left and right. That Hero had to be all "Why did this bozo let me land that?". Why don't I get to play Roys that are that bad?

signalnoise
Mar 7, 2008


Kramdar posted:

If I played any Roy that was this bad, I would be getting players SD'ing on me left and right. That Hero had to be all "Why did this bozo let me land that?". Why don't I get to play Roys that are that bad?

That hero is me and yes it was like that. I intentionally play like a dipshit because people in lower ranks let me. If you want to play people who are that bad, just drop your rank. It's fun to demoralize people in this game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgaTdOaPJzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu2fhY3uhYQ

signalnoise fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Apr 7, 2021

LanceKing2200
Mar 27, 2007
Brilliant!!

TheKingofSprings posted:

GnW has a move with a 1/11 chance of instant killing on a connection, the argument here is a steaming pile

Yes, and that move has a small, slow hitbox.

Hero has that power on: All smash attacks, a projectile, a large front hitbox, and arguably an enormous ball that's the single largest attack in the game.

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

Down the Rabbit Hole.



TheKingofSprings posted:

GnW has a move with a 1/11 chance of instant killing on a connection, the argument here is a steaming pile

Game and Watch has a single random move (Level 9 Judge is survivable at lower percentages too), Hero's got random crits on all four Smash attacks and a random bank of 21 moves which can have their own random properties. It's a huge difference.

multijoe
Oct 15, 2007

NYO~HO


Remind me which one is the top tier character and which is a joke pick again?

Reiley
Dec 16, 2007




Hero (or Yuusha) is, in a way, the most honest character in Smash Brothers, as they freely embrace the strokes of good fortune the rest of us meekly pretend are expressions of our own gaming skill.

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Sudden Javelin
Jul 6, 2009





Hero is one of my mains and I regret nothing

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