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Bluff Buster
Oct 26, 2011

DoctorWhat posted:

because it's a physical explosion with shrapnel and pressure waves and not an energy projectile.

Unlike a grenade or Nikita missile (but not the RPG), which (I think) can be absorbed?

Chalk it up to inconsistency.

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Theta Zero
Dec 22, 2014

I've seen it.

DoctorWhat posted:

because it's a physical explosion with shrapnel and pressure waves and not an energy projectile.

The Mattybee
Sep 15, 2007

despair.

DoctorWhat posted:

because it's a physical explosion with shrapnel and pressure waves and not an energy projectile.

nope, grenades and c4 can be absorbed!

I'd get it if you couldn't absorb it at point blank because you get hit by the clown car before it explodes, but you can't absorb the explosion either

You also can't absorb mechakoopa explosion!

Ariong
Jun 25, 2012



I tried doing a free-for-all rather than a one-on-one for the first time in some time, and I was reminded why I don't do them normally. Why on Earth do you have to watch the rest of the match play out once you die? I'm not exactly on the edge of my seat wondering whether absolute stranger A will triumph over absolute stranger B. yet, I'm literally typing this post while I wait for a match to end, which has been going on for longer than I was ever in the game in the first place.

Just Andi Now
Nov 8, 2009


Ariong posted:

Why on Earth do you have to watch the rest of the match play out once you die?

This is why Time has always been the default mode in multiplayer, despite the fact that everyone refuses to use it.

HMS Beagle
Feb 13, 2009



Just Andi Now posted:

This is why Time has always been the default mode in multiplayer, despite the fact that everyone refuses to use it.

Yeah, especially if there is a significant skill differential, that's why I tend to do time for 4+ players.

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS

The Mattybee posted:

nope, grenades and c4 can be absorbed!

I'd get it if you couldn't absorb it at point blank because you get hit by the clown car before it explodes, but you can't absorb the explosion either

You also can't absorb mechakoopa explosion!

It's because Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings are powerful.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

The Mattybee posted:

I'd get it if you couldn't absorb it at point blank because you get hit by the clown car before it explodes, but you can't absorb the explosion either

You also can't absorb mechakoopa explosion!

Good :colbert:

Speaking of my boy:



The highest I've ever gotten. Taking screenshot before I inevitably lose the next 15 matches :buddy:

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

My guiding Moonlight...



Never play again and it can only go up! :v:

Maple Leaf
Aug 24, 2010

Let'en my post flyen true
I finished my tutorial video for Pyra and Mythra, for anyone that'd like to give that a watch. Because I talk about two different characters, it's necessarily a bit longer than usual. You can give it a watch here.

If you'd prefer to just read the script, you can find that here.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Maple Leaf posted:

I finished my tutorial video for Pyra and Mythra, for anyone that'd like to give that a watch. Because I talk about two different characters, it's necessarily a bit longer than usual. You can give it a watch here.

If you'd prefer to just read the script, you can find that here.

I know I say this everytime but thank you for the scripts I have not adapted to youtube and so this is very convenient.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!
Do all the best players in the goddamn world come out on Sundays? I have done loving NOTHING but lose ALL DAY and I am about ready to loving throw myself off of a building.

I have dropped from like. 9.45 down to 9.1. I have lost all but ONE match ALL DAY. Players who know my every move, who can move so fast it's like their game is set on turbo mode, who can read every single out of shield option I do or whatever. I don't know why I play this godforsaken game that makes me angry all the time.

Also I know I play Bowser Jr but I'm just so tired of being juggled. I thought I was really getting better considering how long I've been able to stay in elite but at this point I'm on the verge of dropping out and it's so demoralizing.

Macaluso fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Apr 18, 2021

Maple Leaf
Aug 24, 2010

Let'en my post flyen true

Macaluso posted:

Do all the best players in the goddamn world come out on Sundays? I have done loving NOTHING but lose ALL DAY and I am about ready to loving throw myself off of a building.

I have dropped from like. 9.45 down to 9.1. I have lost all but ONE match ALL DAY. Players who know my every move, who can move so fast it's like their game is set on turbo mode, who can read every single out of shield option I do or whatever. I don't know why I play this godforsaken game that makes me angry all the time.

Also I know I play Bowser Jr but I'm just so tired of being juggled. I thought I was really getting better considering how long I've been able to stay in elite but at this point I'm on the verge of dropping out and it's so demoralizing.

You feel that way because it's important to you that you do better. Which is an enviable attitude to have, but you also need to know when your performance is being affected by your emotions, i.e. you're too tilted to play with a calm head. It's hard to stop when you're down, but it's the healthiest thing you can do for both yourself and your GSP.

The better you get, the better your opponents will likewise get, and the more your character choice will matter. I still play Ridley and Banjo and I still love them, but I also acknowledge that I'd be doing better and going further if I played better characters, and the same is going to apply to Jr. I won't suggest you switch since that'd be hypocritical of me and I get why you wouldn't want to.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

Maple Leaf posted:

You feel that way because it's important to you that you do better. Which is an enviable attitude to have, but you also need to know when your performance is being affected by your emotions, i.e. you're too tilted to play with a calm head. It's hard to stop when you're down, but it's the healthiest thing you can do for both yourself and your GSP.

The better you get, the better your opponents will likewise get, and the more your character choice will matter. I still play Ridley and Banjo and I still love them, but I also acknowledge that I'd be doing better and going further if I played better characters, and the same is going to apply to Jr. I won't suggest you switch since that'd be hypocritical of me and I get why you wouldn't want to.

Yeah you're right. I was getting way way too tilted after so many losses but kept playing throughout the day. I took a few days off and got back in and got back in the saddle and got back up. I totally get way too tilted super easily though, I need to consider putting the game down for the rest of the day if I go on a losing streak like that again to cool off.

Bowser Jr is just too fun to play, and honestly I can't really play the better tier character all that well. Joker sort of, but even then, the fast characters I have a really hard time with for some reason. I'm a lot better at the slower/heavier character, but of course they have the problem of being able to be juggled super easily.

Also I don't hate fighting them like I do Link or Pythra, but I literally cannot win a match against a Steve :v: That thing where they wall you out is too effective, although I've started learning that I can hop and drop my mecha koopa over their wall, and usually it works because either they have to shield or they have to keep mining, exploding from my Mecha Koopa

Bleck
Jan 7, 2014

No matter how one loves, there are always different aims. Love can take a great many forms, whatever the era.

Maple Leaf posted:

It's hard to stop when you're down, but it's the healthiest thing you can do for both yourself and your GSP.

hopefully you're not like me where you get so mad that you put the game down until you calm down and are still mad two years later

Leal
Oct 2, 2009
Robosapien for smash, I even got the intro trailer where Mario is loving murdered as per tradition

https://i.imgur.com/9WO7KHu.mp4

Reiley
Dec 16, 2007


The logical follow-up in the progression of DLC characters is another fighter who makes more or bigger half-circle hitboxes so everyone who thought Dante was coming will be surprised as the rest of us when Virgil enters the fray.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!
I want a Bloodborne Hunter, with visceral attacks and stuff

scary ghost dog
Aug 5, 2007

Reiley posted:

The logical follow-up in the progression of DLC characters is another fighter who makes more or bigger half-circle hitboxes so everyone who thought Dante was coming will be surprised as the rest of us when Virgil enters the fray.

if we’re getting another sword fighter, they absolutely must have a katana.

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007

Macaluso posted:

I want a Bloodborne Hunter, with visceral attacks and stuff

scary ghost dog posted:

if we’re getting another sword fighter, they absolutely must have a katana.

why not both?

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007

impaling yourself on your sword for blood power is a perfectly reasonable neutral b

TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012

scary ghost dog posted:

if we’re getting another sword fighter, they absolutely must have a katana.

Congratulations, Phoenix Wright

cheeseboy58
Dec 14, 2020

Macaluso posted:

I want a Bloodborne Hunter, with visceral attacks and stuff

Thats boring i want to be a luminwood with the augur of ebrietas and all

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!

cheeseboy58 posted:

Thats boring i want to be a luminwood with the augur of ebrietas and all

I picture a Bloodborne Hunter being able to pick a loadout before starting, and all those weapons being available

cheeseboy58
Dec 14, 2020
The whirligig saw just combos into itself. Its free real estate!

scary ghost dog
Aug 5, 2007

Macaluso posted:

I picture a Bloodborne Hunter being able to pick a loadout before starting, and all those weapons being available

lol imagine if a smash bros character was designed this way

Lux Anima
Apr 17, 2016


Dinosaur Gum

scary ghost dog posted:

lol imagine if a smash bros character was designed this way

looks at all the mii fighters... :sweep:

Tonetta
Jul 9, 2013

look mother look at ME MOTHER MOTHER I AM A HOMESTIXK NOW

**methodically removes and eats own clothes*

scary ghost dog posted:

lol imagine if a smash bros character was designed this way

u missed the crustem era i see

Amazing Member
Apr 4, 2008
Years late to the party but i finally bought a switch and picked up smash and all the fighters, except im dog poo poo against actual human players.

Maybe fighting games aren't my strongest suite but im having a hard time accurately controlling my pawn with these Joy cons, how do you guys do it?

Watching videos of players dominate with mewtwo with all these air attacks and im having a hard time just short hopping, how do I get better?

Strange Matter
Oct 6, 2009

Ask me about Genocide

Amazing Member posted:

Years late to the party but i finally bought a switch and picked up smash and all the fighters, except im dog poo poo against actual human players.

Maybe fighting games aren't my strongest suite but im having a hard time accurately controlling my pawn with these Joy cons, how do you guys do it?

Watching videos of players dominate with mewtwo with all these air attacks and im having a hard time just short hopping, how do I get better?
Don't use the Joycon controllers, for one. I'm a big fan of the Pro Controller, while just about everyone on the pro circuit uses the Gamecube designed Smash Controllers.

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

My guiding Moonlight...



Macaluso posted:

I picture a Bloodborne Hunter being able to pick a loadout before starting, and all those weapons being available

You'd just have different weapons for different attacks; Threaded Cane Up+B Tether special, B for Blunderbus/Pistol, Burial Blade/Kirkhammer/Holy Moonlight Sword Side Special. We're probably see most of the attacks just be the Saw Clever with some variations. However it'll never happen because I'm sure Sony doesn't want it to happen.

Theta Zero
Dec 22, 2014

I've seen it.

Amazing Member posted:

Years late to the party but i finally bought a switch and picked up smash and all the fighters, except im dog poo poo against actual human players.

Maybe fighting games aren't my strongest suite but im having a hard time accurately controlling my pawn with these Joy cons, how do you guys do it?

Watching videos of players dominate with mewtwo with all these air attacks and im having a hard time just short hopping, how do I get better?

Short hopping feels a bit tighter in this game for some reason. Either way, pushing both jump buttons (using default controls) forces a short hop. Unfortunately, this means you need to claw grip if you want to short hop consistently, so it may be worth rebinding one of the jump buttons to a shoulder button so it's easier to do.

Just starting out, you want to avoid basic and bad habits many people have. Don't burn your double jump unless necessary, and this includes not double jumping out of hitstun when you're knocked back. If you get hit after using your double jump before you land, you don't get it back until you touch the floor. Avoid rolling, especially rolling or air dodging towards your opponent. In general, offensive options such as repositioning for a poke is safer and more reliable than rolling. It doesn't mean rolling has no function, but people rely on it far too much. Practice attacking out of dash, as you can do any attack if you release dash before you input it. Rebinding the right stick to do tilt attacks instead of smash attacks is very helpful, although there are some characters where you may prefer otherwise.

As you get better, most of your improvement comes from reading your opponent. At a certain point, you should be able to do any action without having to fumble the controls or consider what you need to push. Try spending more time looking at your opponent rather than your own character. If you lose a game, save a replay and come back in a week, and rewatch it while looking at yourself exclusively, imagining yourself from the enemy's perspective, and try to predict your past self's actions to see if you were being predictable when you got hit. If a character is giving you trouble, try playing as that character yourself to figure out their weaknesses, or even do mirror matches with the person you beat you, even if you get destroyed because of it.

Maple Leaf
Aug 24, 2010

Let'en my post flyen true

Theta Zero posted:

Short hopping feels a bit tighter in this game for some reason.

There's a transition animation called a 'jumpsquat' (as the game refers it) between when you press the jump button and when your character is actually in the air. The reason why it feels tighter in this game is because every character's jumpsquat has been standardized to three frames, where in previous games, it was unique per character. It's a huge buff for most characters (namely, Bowser, Robin, Ganondorf, and Wario had the worst jumpsquats in Smash 4) and a very slight nerf to some others (namely, Sheik and Greninja). So, for the entire cast, you have to press and release the jump button within three frames in order to get the shorthop, where, in Smash 4, Robin had to release it within nine, which is massive difference.

This is overall a positive change for the speed of the game, but it does make controlling some characters a little tighter, as you described.

If you have two buttons mapped to jump, then pressing them both at once will give you a shorthop, no matter how long you hold them, as Theta Zero said.

(If you're curious, in every single game, everyone's double jump comes out on frame 1)

Maple Leaf fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Apr 28, 2021

Shoenin
May 29, 2013

Everynight I wake up Screaming.
(and beating the dragon)

Theta Zero posted:

pushing both jump buttons (using default controls) forces a short hop.

What the hell, it does? I thought it was just attack + jump for a short hop attack.
Holy poo poo this changes everything for me 0_o

Amazing Member
Apr 4, 2008
Solid advice, except im not too keen on buying a pro controller just yet, just no funds to spare for it.

As for jump advice:I found pressing jump and attack at the same time causes a short hop fair or nair, but I wasn't aware pressing both jumps causes a short hop so that's great to know. Pressing up on the directional pad just feels so sluggish or not accurate, I probably just need practice.

Follow up; fast dropping. Is it available at the height of a short hop as well? Ive watched videos of characters like Luigi doing short hop attacks into down fast combos. Very fast and tight but I can't seem to recreate it in practice mode. Perhaps its because I haven't remapped my shoulder for jump yet and haven't felt accurate jumping yet.

Should I even bother trying to learn these kinds of things? This game is really fun I just feel terribad at it

Mr. Locke
Jul 28, 2010

Amazing Member posted:

Solid advice, except im not too keen on buying a pro controller just yet, just no funds to spare for it.

As for jump advice:I found pressing jump and attack at the same time causes a short hop fair or nair, but I wasn't aware pressing both jumps causes a short hop so that's great to know. Pressing up on the directional pad just feels so sluggish or not accurate, I probably just need practice.

Follow up; fast dropping. Is it available at the height of a short hop as well? Ive watched videos of characters like Luigi doing short hop attacks into down fast combos. Very fast and tight but I can't seem to recreate it in practice mode. Perhaps its because I haven't remapped my shoulder for jump yet and haven't felt accurate jumping yet.

Should I even bother trying to learn these kinds of things? This game is really fun I just feel terribad at it

Learn it at your own pace. You don't need to do tricky combos to even make Elite Smash- my Terry is awful at anything that doesn't start off a jab, down tilt, or up-air and he's still somehow remained glued in Elite Smash despite me playing him once in a blue moon.

Work on your fundimentals, positioning, and defense as well as a few simple conversions for a character of choice. Luigi is a... weird one to start with because as everyone gets better he overcentralizes on his one touch kills, but if he's the guy you want to learn you can still start beating most folks up with just simple stuff as long as your defensive game is solid. Remember, not being there is better then blocking, blocking is better then dodging/rolling unless you have some kind of read on a big attack. And get used to short hopping to punish blocked attacks if you're coming over from other games, shield grabs are the worst they've ever been and shield hopping got massively buffed from the Ultimate jumpsquat changes.

WrightOfWay
Jul 24, 2010


You can begin to fast fall by pressing down as soon as you reach the peak of your jump and it works for short hops, full hops and any other time you are falling (as long as you aren't in a tumble state.) It's a very useful technique and well worth learning the timing.

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010



nobody uses the direction-up-to-jump. everyone turns it off in the control settings and uses the separate jump button. idk if the joycons have two jump buttons but the gamecube controller and the switch pro controller have two face buttons mapped to jump by default so when people say "press both jump buttons to do a short hop" they mean press both of the face buttons that are mapped to jump (or rebind a shoulder button and press it and a jump face button i guess)

you can fast fall from the apex of the short hop. the short hop -> aerial attack -> fast fall technique is a core thing in pro level play but is pretty difficult and requires practice to get it down to muscle memory that you can perform consistently. you can find "advanced smash bros guides" on youtube where people will recommend drilling it in practice mode until you can do it 50 times or something without messing up. it's not really worth going that far imo unless you really want to get consistent at it, i've never bothered to practice it.

Shear Modulus fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Apr 28, 2021

Amazing Member
Apr 4, 2008

Mr. Locke posted:

Luigi is a... weird one to start with

Yeah, no doubt. I haven't owned a smash game since melee on the n64, so really still finding out ones I like and really just starting to learn match ups and kits on top of fundamentals. Ive played fighting games like mortal kombat, soul caliber, the DC fighter game I can't remember the name of off the top of my head.

But smash is kinda unique and I'm not sure how to transfer over some things if anything from those games, so yeah starting ground floor

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Theta Zero
Dec 22, 2014

I've seen it.

Amazing Member posted:

Solid advice, except im not too keen on buying a pro controller just yet, just no funds to spare for it.

As for jump advice:I found pressing jump and attack at the same time causes a short hop fair or nair, but I wasn't aware pressing both jumps causes a short hop so that's great to know. Pressing up on the directional pad just feels so sluggish or not accurate, I probably just need practice.

Follow up; fast dropping. Is it available at the height of a short hop as well? Ive watched videos of characters like Luigi doing short hop attacks into down fast combos. Very fast and tight but I can't seem to recreate it in practice mode. Perhaps its because I haven't remapped my shoulder for jump yet and haven't felt accurate jumping yet.

Should I even bother trying to learn these kinds of things? This game is really fun I just feel terribad at it

Amazing Member posted:

Yeah, no doubt. I haven't owned a smash game since melee on the n64, so really still finding out ones I like and really just starting to learn match ups and kits on top of fundamentals. Ive played fighting games like mortal kombat, soul caliber, the DC fighter game I can't remember the name of off the top of my head.

But smash is kinda unique and I'm not sure how to transfer over some things if anything from those games, so yeah starting ground floor

Sometimes doing an empty shorthop fakes out people. Doing an attack out of shorthop reduces damage done b 15% for some reason.

As for fast falling, I think you can only do it when you've reached the peak of your jump. You can tell when you've done a fast fall because a little sparkle comes out of your character, which is a feature in all games. Fast falling isn't tight, so you can just mash down if you want to force it to come out.

These things are vital to know just to have more freedom and flexibility in the game. Any time you get hit or can't punish somebody, it's because whatever you were doing wasn't fast enough.

If you want to learn the basics of Smash, Captain Falcon, Lucina, Chrom, Fox, or Palutena is a good place to start. They don't have any real gimmicks and have pretty standard specials, so most of what you learn can transfer to other characters.

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