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SatoshiMiwa
May 6, 2007



Yes cause the WWE has a real good track record of pushing super hot acts from other companies as top stars when they come in like Ric Flair's first run, LOD's first run, Goldberg's first run...oh

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Cavauro
Jan 9, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 10 hours!


are you all being sincere or sarcastic? AJ Styles was pushed fairly well from the beginning outside of having to face a jobber or two early on. The WWE doesn't have a good track record of pushing hot acts from other companies; they've messed up quite a lot of them. I feel good about correcting you

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Yeah, AJ was pushed hard from the start. It's silly to say otherwise.

OldTennisCourt posted:

Yeah man they'll spend an enormous amount of money to acquire the best wrestler on Earth and have him get squashed by Big Show. As we all know WWE is run by reverse-vampire demons who survive on the tears of wrestling fans.

I only wish they were competent enough to be working in conjunction with the Rand Corporation

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN

Reminder that when AJ first came in WWE insisted on calling the 39-year-old, 15+ year veteran "the rookie redneck." They called him this multiple times a show, for weeks on end.

They absolutely did not intend to push him as a top guy until his house show reactions and merch sales forced their hand.

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.


They signed the most known, most famous women's MMA fighter ever and had her first singles feud be with Nia Jax, but yeah this is a company that absolutely always knows how to utilize all its talent and definitely never makes mistakes that can be called out as mistakes from the word "go"

SatoshiMiwa
May 6, 2007



I mean look at the track record for the NXT call ups which is talent they've 'developed' in terms of pushes and success and yup not the best track record

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Benne posted:

Reminder that when AJ first came in WWE insisted on calling the 39-year-old, 15+ year veteran "the rookie redneck." They called him this multiple times a show, for weeks on end.

They absolutely did not intend to push him as a top guy until his house show reactions and merch sales forced their hand.

He got to debut in the Royal Rumble instead of on NXT, got immediately put into a feud with a top star in Jericho, transitioned from that into wrestling for the title in a feud with Roman Reigns, then had a feud with John Cena in which he only got beaten in a multi-man tag, then won the title from Dean Ambrose. All this in roughly 8-9 months from his debut, fighting nothing but top guys and being treated as a legitimate threat/star the entire time.

Octal
Jan 30, 2003

It is haram to draw images of mythical beasts even if it never existed in reality


Aphrodite posted:

He thinks helmets cause them.

This isn't as insane as you think. It's a bit of a paradox really. The idea is that the safety people feel in football equipment leads to them charging at each other faster which leads to greater injuries.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/new...bk10tkmhxm8ayr7
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/he...ion-doctor.html


They also likely fail to prevent concussions in the first place along with giving you that extra sense of security
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/footba...ion-protection/
https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/5/1...y-protech-vicis

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



Chris James 2 posted:

They signed the most known, most famous women's MMA fighter ever and had her first singles feud be with Nia Jax, but yeah this is a company that absolutely always knows how to utilize all its talent and definitely never makes mistakes that can be called out as mistakes from the word "go"

They consider Nia a top level star.

That they're wrong doesn't change that they think this is a high profile thing.

VJeff
Jun 2, 2011

#HEKNOWS
#SCOOPS
#IGNOREMYPOSTS


AJ Styles and his WWE Championship were the fourth or fifth most important thing in their feud at the start of the year.

Also, like, why don't you go ahead and point me out any good feud AJ has had since he dropped the belt to Cena? All of 2017 and 2018 seems to have been an ongoing project to see how you can make a feud between AJ Styles and X be boring and unsatisfying as gently caress. His best booked feud was the one with Jinder for Pete's sake.

My point to this is you can be a pushed guy in WWE and they'll still have you doing boring unsatisfying garbage.

Strawberry Panda
Nov 4, 2007

Breakfast Defecting, Slow Dick Touching, Root Beer Barreling SwagVP


They had Daniel Bryan come back after 2 years and put him in a tag match with Shane at Wrestlemania and then made his first solo feud against Big Cass.

They also fed AJ to Roman and only made him champion after the brand split.

Hell, WWE can't even push Roman correctly, and he's a homegrown talent.

Strawberry Panda fucked around with this message at Jun 14, 2018 around 02:10

DarkstarIV
Apr 6, 2010

Ms. Money


Aphrodite posted:

They consider Nia a top level star.

That they're wrong doesn't change that they think this is a high profile thing.

The main roster women's division in general is a mess. Unless you have connections (Nia's related to The Rock, and Charlotte is related to Ric Flair) or are blond (Charlotte, Alexa, Carmella, and probably Mandy before too long), you aren't getting featured as a top star. Or you won't get the spotlight on you for a decent amount of time. In ring talent be damned. It's a pretty big problem on the main roster. But I think the root of the problem is that Vince has a problem with the women's division as it is right now, because he's trying to find the next Trish Stratus, despite the fact that there are many women on the roster who aren't blond or have connections who could outwrestle and most likely outdraw Trish if WWE actually got behind them. In NXT it's not really an issue.

It's a problem with WWE booking as a whole really. At least on the main roster. The main roster creative teams intentionally book you to expose your flaws, instead of trying to hide or fix them (like what NXT does). There are two simple ways to significantly improve WWE's product that won't cost them money. 1) Stop forcing awful scripts/segments onto talent. Give them a list of bullet points to hit, and let them write their own stuff or go unscripted. 2) Stop booking your talent around the idea that their flaws must be front and center at all times. You should try and hide them, or remedy them.

DarkstarIV fucked around with this message at Jun 14, 2018 around 02:16

Faustian Bargain
Apr 12, 2014



Strawberry Panda posted:

They had Daniel Bryan come back after 2 years and put him in a tag match with Shane at Wrestlemania and then made his first solo feud against Big Cass.

They also fed AJ to Roman and only made him champion after the brand split.

Hell, WWE can't even push Roman correctly, and he's a homegrown talent.
Still not as funny as trying to move the yes chant to big show.

If I were the bucks Iíd look at how theyíve done basically nothing with gallows and Anderson.

Edit: making bayley into just another loser too. Bayley was such a lay up that itís impressive how much they dropped the ball with her.

Faustian Bargain fucked around with this message at Jun 14, 2018 around 02:18

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006

austin 3:16 says shut up. shut hte fuck up. where is my beer. i need hel

bucks should demand $10m over 3 years each along with insurance and road coverages. in fact the baseline for wwe wrestlers should be $900,000.

Wazzu
Feb 28, 2008

Are you sure I'm winning the Rumble? That does'nt seem right.....

Rarity posted:

I only see the Elite going to WWE if they're given the AJ Styles of treatment of instant main roster callup and instant big push. It wouldn't be worth it to them otherwise.

I dream of royal rumble final 4 of Karl Anderson, Finn, AJ, and Kenny.

WWE would put Roman in the final 4 instead, of course.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



DarkstarIV posted:

The main roster women's division in general is a mess. Unless you have connections (Nia's related to The Rock, and Charlotte is related to Ric Flair) or are blond (Charlotte, Alexa, Carmella, and probably Mandy before too long), you aren't getting featured as a top star.

Sashaís not really Eddieís daughter thatís just a forum joke.

Wazzu
Feb 28, 2008

Are you sure I'm winning the Rumble? That does'nt seem right.....

Aphrodite posted:

They consider Nia a top level star.

That they're wrong doesn't change that they think this is a high profile thing.

I can't believe how well her walking out on RAW worked.

cavallingus
Apr 23, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 24 days!


SatoshiMiwa posted:

Yes cause the WWE has a real good track record of pushing super hot acts from other companies as top stars when they come in like Ric Flair's first run, LOD's first run, Goldberg's first run...oh
What was wrong with Flair's first run? He won the first ever (and only?) Rumble where the WWF Title was on the line, which was a big deal at the time.

Was it his feud with Savage? Or dropping the title out of nowhere to Bret Hart?

bradzilla
Oct 15, 2004



Fan of Britches

OldTennisCourt posted:

Yeah man they'll spend an enormous amount of money to acquire the best wrestler on Earth and have him get squashed by Big Show. As we all know WWE is run by reverse-vampire demons who survive on the tears of wrestling fans.

You must be new to watching and following WWE

Strawberry Panda
Nov 4, 2007

Breakfast Defecting, Slow Dick Touching, Root Beer Barreling SwagVP


Wazzu posted:

I can't believe how well her walking out on RAW worked.

The Rock knows how to work Vince.

SatoshiMiwa
May 6, 2007



piss tape israel posted:

What was wrong with Flair's first run? He won the first ever (and only?) Rumble where the WWF Title was on the line, which was a big deal at the time.

Was it his feud with Savage? Or dropping the title out of nowhere to Bret Hart?

Flair's first run on it's own seems okay till you realize he came in with the actual NWA belt, was the actual Heavyweight champion and the WWF could have actually booked a legit champion vs Champion feud. They turned on it quickly, never ran Hogan vs Flair and his run was probably one of the weaker Flair runs of that time period.

boar guy
Jan 25, 2007


just getting around to watching smackdown now... did lana totally drop her accent for a minute?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


boar guy posted:

just getting around to watching smackdown now... did lana totally drop her accent for a minute?

Yep, it was really noticeable and super weird.

boar guy
Jan 25, 2007


Jerusalem posted:

Yep, it was really noticeable and super weird.

it's also odd that it wasn't edited out of the west coast broadcast

Seams
Feb 3, 2005


a few years ago the merest mention on omega or the bucks going to WWE would've sent people into conniptions. now everybody knows that it doesnt matter how many indie/japanese darlings the company signs, the booking remains the same.

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

Somehow, even more irritating than I look.

piss tape israel posted:

He won the first ever (and only?) Rumble where the WWF Title was on the line, which was a big deal at the time.

At the time, yes. Triple H would later win the title off Roman Reigns in the Rumble.

~~~~~~~~~~
Man, having Styles come in and lose a couple of matches before a push is one of the few things I actually feel WWE did right.

Styles is an insanely good wrestler, and he should absolutely be at the top, but having a guy his size come in and immediately kick the rear end of your entire roster buries your own company. Not just the talent. The product itself. WWE has a luxury of having very good talent available at most parts of the card. Not everyone is an "in the know" wrestling fan. No matter how gifted AJ is, it's gonna look real bad to have everyone in your roster lie down for him from the word go. It'd be one thing if he were a Samoa Joe or a Braun Strowman or a Bill Goldberg and you could hype him as this unstoppable monster. AJ can't do that. You have to show off his skills to get people behind him. From the moment he came into the WWE, Styles has had a fantastic degree of hype/protection. Entering the Royal Rumble for a bit of solo action with the guy the company is trying to make into its top star. Giving him a good run in the rumble and having him only eventually be eliminated by one of the best heels in the company. Putting him in a lengthy feud with the previous top guy of the company, giving him two championship runs, making him the only believable threat to Brock Lesnar in over a year (Aside from Samoa Joe in the segments that weren't the actual match itself).... Styles was handled exactly right. They had him lose at Wrestlemania to one of the most respected wrestlers in the entire world, and also all time, in Chris Jericho. Oh. Darn.

Compare his booking to pretty much anyone called up from NXT. If anything, dudes coming directly to Raw/SD have a huge advantage over dudes who get stuck in NXT first, even if NXT tends to put on a much better product.

Fat Lowtax
Nov 9, 2008


"I'm willing to pay up to $1200 for a big anime titty"




https://twitter.com/MojoRawleyWWE/s...942239837376514

Don't care if this is a repost

Liquid Cannibalism
Mar 9, 2004

Delicious and Nutritious



Fun Shoe

OldTennisCourt posted:

Yeah man they'll spend an enormous amount of money to acquire the best wrestler on Earth and have him get squashed by Big Show. As we all know WWE is run by reverse-vampire demons who survive on the tears of wrestling fans.

Meanwhile, Daniel Bryan is doing a program with Big Cass, because putting one of the best in the world with a botchy idiot when he's working on borrowed time before he concusses himself again and quits when they pull his card is the Best Plan. Instead of, you know, getting in the big money dream matches.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Jeremy Corbyn has been made the subject of an official complaint to the Labour party over his suggestion in 2013 that some British Zionists do not understand 'English irony'.

Are you offended?

Why not put in a complaint?




This is a Public Service Announcement everyone should go check out Pete Dunne and Kyle O'Reilly on the latest NXT because it's really loving good please and thank you

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


I haven't even seen it yet and based on the participants alone I'm gonna enthusiastically agree.

GEORGE W BUSHI
Jul 1, 2012



Rovert posted it in the NXT thread, but this match is well worth ten minutes of your time too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21KVoHjeN8c

Captain Magic
Apr 3, 2005

Yes, we have feathers--but the muscles of men.

WWE has booked poorly for years and it takes an overwhelming amount of talent to, well, overwhelm that. Styles happens to have that exact amount of talent.

Reigns is their guy and they put proportionally a crazy amount of time, effort, and thought into making him the number one babyfaceóa captivating protagonist that makes people want to see him wrestleóand they canít do it. I think spiteful booking certainly exists but honestly itís just a company that is bad at its (at this point) tertiary job of storytelling. Itís just a thing this company is not good at almost all of the time, to the point where even when they are get it right, itís difficult to not just feel dread about when the other shoe will drop. Its primary goal is to produce content for money and theyíre at a point where that contentís quality (according to two loving billion dollars) doesnít really matter as long as itís live. Theyíve lost the onus to produce good stories because they donít need stars to draw money, and if they donít need stars, then they donít need good stories for those stars.

NXT has good storytelling frequently but also suffers from like the black hole aspect of the main roster. Like, when will my favorite be pulled in and torn apart by the singularity? Ahhhhh

Liquid Cannibalism
Mar 9, 2004

Delicious and Nutritious



Fun Shoe

That's what boggles me.

How are they this bad? I mean, they're basically writing on the level of daytime soap operas. Is it just that nobody with a functioning brain will work in Vince's writers' room?

rare Magic card l00k
Jan 3, 2011

Me uni a la Revolucion #RXT


el sabe ...


Liquid Communism posted:

That's what boggles me.

How are they this bad? I mean, they're basically writing on the level of daytime soap operas. Is it just that nobody with a functioning brain will work in Vince's writers' room?

There are very few people capable of writing 3 hours of television every week, let alone 3 hours of television where you have to rewrite things multiple times, including the day of the show.

Wazzu
Feb 28, 2008

Are you sure I'm winning the Rumble? That does'nt seem right.....

Liquid Communism posted:

That's what boggles me.

How are they this bad? I mean, they're basically writing on the level of daytime soap operas. Is it just that nobody with a functioning brain will work in Vince's writers' room?

It's a crazy amount of content, a lot of pressure from different areas (not just Vince, but networks, sponsors), a gigantic history to compete with (both in terms of trying to be better, but also not re-hashing any storylines from the past 33 years).

They are still poo poo at their jobs, though.

Jack Anderson
Jan 8, 2008

GOLDEN END


Whatever the reason is, the fact is that RAW is largely an unwatchable mess and whatever little good that comes from it is quickly drowned out by all the sheer poo poo everywhere else.

gently caress sake.

SatansOnion
Dec 12, 2011



rare Magic card l00k posted:

There are very few people capable of writing 3 hours of television every week, let alone 3 hours of television where you have to rewrite things multiple times, including the day of the show.

and on top of all this, you need an inhuman level of tolerance for asinine politicking dogshit because the baroquely terrible family at the helm can only derive joy from humiliating the less powerful

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008



Gravy Boat 2k

I don't think we'd be talking about the booking and writing if it were just...simply bad.

The writing is bad, but also bipolar and completely without any coherence. Why do wrestling fans bring up continuity? Because it is legitimately a shocking thing for the WWE to remember, to the point where just a throwaway line nowadays by a wrestler can instantly enhance a singular match. It's beyond just bad writing. If the WWE could manage to put out bad writing, I'd be watching the product. What the WWE puts out is the equivalent of insane wall carvings of a man who eats his own feces.

Shinjobi fucked around with this message at Jun 14, 2018 around 08:14

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Forgive me if this has already been discussed or if it is terribly naive.

But given the downsides to working with WWE, (horrific schedule, no creative freedom, subject to the whims of a madman etc.), and the upsides, (potential big money, big exposure, get to 'live the dream'). Why don't more people take the Brock Lesnar option? The "I'll work part time, not give a poo poo, and take fucktonnes of cash" option.

I know this option isn't offered to many, (and truth be told I don't fully understand why it was offered to Brock). But if the WWE/Vince/HHH has a big enough hard on for you and you are in the least bit talented as a negotiator then surely you could try and get that deal. And if they want you enough then surely they will offer it or something like it.

Or at least point at Brock and argue that maybe you should get a little of what he has in terms of time off and/or pay.

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Wazzu
Feb 28, 2008

Are you sure I'm winning the Rumble? That does'nt seem right.....

BrigadierSensible posted:

Forgive me if this has already been discussed or if it is terribly naive.

But given the downsides to working with WWE, (horrific schedule, no creative freedom, subject to the whims of a madman etc.), and the upsides, (potential big money, big exposure, get to 'live the dream'). Why don't more people take the Brock Lesnar option? The "I'll work part time, not give a poo poo, and take fucktonnes of cash" option.

I know this option isn't offered to many, (and truth be told I don't fully understand why it was offered to Brock). But if the WWE/Vince/HHH has a big enough hard on for you and you are in the least bit talented as a negotiator then surely you could try and get that deal. And if they want you enough then surely they will offer it or something like it.

Or at least point at Brock and argue that maybe you should get a little of what he has in terms of time off and/or pay.

John Cena and Brock both ahve that deal, basically. Nobody else has the combination of big enough, and wanting that.

Who do you think WWE/HHH/Vince has a big enough hard on for? They know not to give golden eggs out freely.

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