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Caganer
Feb 15, 2018



The scientists also discovered that water is wet HAHAHA GET IT?!

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05404-6

quote:

Sexual harassment is pervasive throughout academic science in the United States, driving talented researchers out of the field and harming others’ careers, finds a report from the US National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine in Washington DC. The analysis concludes that policies to fight the problem are ineffective because they are set up to protect institutions, not victims — and that universities, funding agencies, scientific societies and other organizations must take stronger action...

The most common type of sexual harassment is gender harassment, the report finds. Such behaviour conveys the impression that women do not belong in the workplace or do not merit respect — “the put-downs as opposed to the come-ons”, Johnson says. These actions might seem minor but can seriously affect the person targeted. She says that they also set the stage for the other types of sexual harassment: unwanted sexual attention and sexual coercion.


Unfortunately, I found this good article through a Bad Website (hackernews) which had some gems in the comments:

quote:

I read an article (semi) recently posted here where women and other minorities felt attacked on Stack Overflow because of their gender/color, even though they were (for all intents and purposes) anonymous! Could this be the case here as well - women interpreting something that's not sexual harassment as sexual harassment?

Which leads to this gem:

quote:

I think you should hear more about the experiences of women and minorities. Harassment, intentional or unintentional, is far more the norm than you might think, SO aside (I haven’t seen that so I can’t comment).

quote:

Please don't imply that only women and minorities can be harassed. Per the article, men report gender harassment in academia fairly frequently as well(but, women report it 1.64x more frequently). So, if men and women have the same standards for reporting, ~37% of gender harassment claims are made by men.

Here's another Big Thinker™:

quote:

Amongst the valid claims of real harassment there are always cases like this. It is difficult to classify though because of the emotionally charged nature of the topic. There is little to gain in doing so, and in some cases it's even discouraged.

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Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

Now I'm radioactive!

That can't be good!


quote:

I read an article (semi) recently posted here where women and other minorities felt attacked on Stack Overflow because of their gender/color, even though they were (for all intents and purposes) anonymous! Could this be the case here as well - women interpreting something that's not sexual harassment as sexual harassment?

Counter-point

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmbN1g6x2ws#t=262s

Dangerous Minority
Oct 24, 2016

May cause birth defects


I'm in engineering, and thankfully the people around my office are, at worst, a little socially awkward. No racism or sexism or any poo poo like that.

A lot of my classmates are garbage people though and hold some horrible views on minorities and women in the field. I had a dude legitimately try to argue with me about how straight white men are being discriminated against and how women should always be subservient to their husbands and poo poo.

Chinatown
Sep 11, 2001

*Suck My Balls*

Grimey Drawer

im a loving pig i eat slop and i stink

frown upon me

Bip Roberts
Mar 29, 2005




I just took a huge poo poo all over my HEAD and CHEST and now you libs are telling me that GENDER isn't REAL!!!?!

Doctor Dogballs
Apr 1, 2007

Drivin' the Fuck Truck from Hand Land to Pound Town without stopping at Suction Station


sexual her rear end-mint!

Caganer
Feb 15, 2018



Dangerous Minority posted:

I'm in engineering... I had a dude legitimately try to argue with me about how straight white men are being discriminated against and how women should always be subservient to their husbands and poo poo.

i wish i worked at google

Caganer fucked around with this message at Jun 13, 2018 around 21:20

myDad
Jan 20, 2010

ce n'est pas ma mère

College Slice

Chinatown posted:

im a loving pig i eat slop and i stink

frown upon me

Love Rat
Jan 15, 2008

I've made a psycho call to the woman I love, I've kicked a dog to death, and now I'm going to pepper spray an acquaintance. Something... I mean, what's happened to me?

Who would of thought fields dominated by socially awkward old graybeards would be rife with harassment.

ElectricSheep
Jan 14, 2006

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


I remember my 5-person Neurobio class in grad school, taught by this Indian guy in his sixties. We had one girl in our class; he treated her like poo poo. He ignored her questions or brushed them off at best, and usually aimed his ire right at her on the days we weren't on our game as a class. In hindsight, that explains why the class only had 5 students enrolled in it.

that's my anecdote, g*d bl*ss

COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

MUST

CRUSH

CAPAATAALEISM



~ n o s h i t ~

Fried Watermelon
Dec 29, 2008


get beefy bitch


Hackernews is an even shittier reddit

Most comments are just people trying to one up each other on what obscure coding method they use and how it's great for no reason at all and why won't management let them use their super loud keyboards

The Dregs
Dec 29, 2005

Nothin' but lint.


Wait..that's harassment? Poor bastard.

Jikes
Dec 18, 2005


GBS is not an rss

Pick
Jul 19, 2009

I was beautiful once. Free of pain, free of forums.
See me as I was. Not as I am now.


Grimey Drawer

No poo poo academia BLOWS

Pick
Jul 19, 2009

I was beautiful once. Free of pain, free of forums.
See me as I was. Not as I am now.


Grimey Drawer

It is the worst place ever. God I get ptsd.

Woden
May 6, 2006


Why are male dominated fields always so poo poo but ones dominated by women chill and good(except the pay, lol)?

Like if you're a man in child care or nursing the women will have your back and really go to bat for you, but on the flip side men will just be turds and blame women for everything.

Nerses IV
May 4, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 39 hours!


Woden posted:

Why are male dominated fields always so poo poo but ones dominated by women chill and good(except the pay, lol)?

Like if you're a man in child care or nursing the women will have your back and really go to bat for you, but on the flip side men will just be turds and blame women for everything.

My wife's a nurse and, haha, uh, well

Let's call it "cliquish"

Pick
Jul 19, 2009

I was beautiful once. Free of pain, free of forums.
See me as I was. Not as I am now.


Grimey Drawer

Because women tend to be better at foregoing prestige for quality of life, which breeds contempt because they’re full of humble people who don’t make exploding space cars

Pick
Jul 19, 2009

I was beautiful once. Free of pain, free of forums.
See me as I was. Not as I am now.


Grimey Drawer

Nursing is different, it’s for weird martyr people who love attention and need validation

Nerses IV
May 4, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 39 hours!


Pick posted:

Nursing is different, it’s for weird martyr people who love attention and need validation

She works the night shift, that's more for people whose lives have not gone the way they would have liked and this was the most straightforward way to make a bunch of money

Pick
Jul 19, 2009

I was beautiful once. Free of pain, free of forums.
See me as I was. Not as I am now.


Grimey Drawer

And vampires

Murray Mantoinette
Jun 11, 2005

THE  POSTS  MUST  FLOW

Clapping Larry

Pick posted:

Because women tend to be better at foregoing prestige for quality of life, which breeds contempt because they’re full of humble people who don’t make exploding space cars

how do y’all sleep at night

Nerses IV
May 4, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 39 hours!


Apparently there's a problem where male nurses essentially can't touch female addicts for fear of harassment complaints that immediately have to be taken seriously, with a full blown investigation and everything... which means the female nurses get to deal with that kind of manipulative, drug-seeking behavior a lot more while the male nurses take care of fat people or whatever

Caganer
Feb 15, 2018



Fried Watermelon posted:

Hackernews is an even shittier reddit

Most comments are just people trying to one up each other on what obscure coding method they use and how it's great for no reason at all and why won't management let them use their super loud keyboards

They’ve set it up so you need an (ever increasing) amount of upvotes to vote in a weird form of gerrymandering that ensures the “old guard” (weird misogynistic bitcoin guys) control the conversation.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009

I was beautiful once. Free of pain, free of forums.
See me as I was. Not as I am now.


Grimey Drawer

Murray Mantoinette posted:

how do y’all sleep at night

Dude women make for the best workplaces usually they have perspective

Caganer
Feb 15, 2018



Pick posted:

It is the worst place ever. God I get ptsd.

sup fellow scarred by my grad school experience PhD dropout

Caganer
Feb 15, 2018



To be fair I wasn’t sexually abused

ArbitraryC
Jan 28, 2009



Pillbug

nerds socially spurned throughout their emotional development growing up to not view them very well isn't too surprising. The people who were successful when they were younger tend to have a lot healthier relationships with women as an adults.

ArmZ
Jun 5, 2004

You are what you want.





Grimey Drawer

https://www.chronicle.com/article/W...e-Science/65922

this is a good blog but I don't think she posts anymore

Caganer
Feb 15, 2018



ArbitraryC posted:

nerds socially spurned throughout their emotional development growing up to not view them very well isn't too surprising. The people who were successful when they were younger tend to have a lot healthier relationships with women as an adults.

Being bullied was good for me imho because it gave me empathy and made me very interested in social justice. Becoming a weird lolbertarian is a choice and being bullied is not an excuse

Pick posted:

Nursing is different, it’s for weird martyr people who love attention and need validation

I have a few friends who did the math and did nurse practitioner programs rather than MDs because they’d wanted to be GPs and the cost of med school isn’t made up for by a GP salary

They get really good work life balance and good pay w low debt but many don’t go this route because being a doctor is prestigious

ArbitraryC
Jan 28, 2009



Pillbug

Caganer posted:

Being bullied was good for me imho because it gave me empathy and made me very interested in social justice. Becoming a weird lolbertarian is a choice and being bullied is not an excuse
It's not really an excuse per se I just think it's sort of an obvious outcome. I was a depressed outcast that was probably going down that road when fortunately I had some friends help me reinvent myself in college and it was like night and day with my outlook and openness to other people. The reality is a lot of bright kids with a more of an aptitude towards stem things than social skills kinda get poo poo on in school and by the time their peers have grown past that they already feel so isolated it can be hard to dig back out of that hole.

I don't think bullying is a good solution at all really, what got my head out of my rear end was specifically people being nice to me that I would have figured were dumb/bad people just because they were outgoing.

COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

MUST

CRUSH

CAPAATAALEISM



Our entire social structure teaches you that winning is the only thing that matters and if you don't win (ie make money and get prestige) you are not a man and have a small dick. It's not just something about men lol.

Pick herself in another thread said "women should never marry down" without apparently realizing that society awards compromised morals with financial success and the most "well off" men are also the most apt to treat you like a piece of furniture.

Our whole social fabric and labor system is inherently exploitative, alienating, and reduces human relationships to epeen measuring contests in short we should smash capitalism.

COMRADES fucked around with this message at Jun 13, 2018 around 23:29

Nerses IV
May 4, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 39 hours!


ArbitraryC posted:

It's not really an excuse per se I just think it's sort of an obvious outcome. I was a depressed outcast that was probably going down that road when fortunately I had some friends help me reinvent myself in college and it was like night and day with my outlook and openness to other people. The reality is a lot of bright kids with a more of an aptitude towards stem things than social skills kinda get poo poo on in school and by the time their peers have grown past that they already feel so isolated it can be hard to dig back out of that hole.

School is A students teaching B students to work for C students

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011


ArbitraryC posted:

nerds socially spurned throughout their emotional development growing up to not view them very well isn't too surprising. The people who were successful when they were younger tend to have a lot healthier relationships with women as an adults.

Eh, I think it's a common misconception that people who are scientists are maladjusted nerds, or vice versa. I would guess the reason that sexual harassment is rife in the sciences is because many of them, particularly physics and mathematics (and physics to a greater degree) are completely and utterly dominated by men in an institutional sense, and have been for more than 100 years, even continuing to be so after education became more open to women and. I would bet that the problem isn't nearly as prevalent within the fields of chemistry and biology where women are better represented. It's probably this imbalance that has contributed to creating a toxic environment more so than everyone being weird virgin nerds*, and it should also be stated that in physics at least it is also old men who dominate and not just men in general, make of that what you will.

*This is not a defense of weird virgin nerds, I'm just kind of sick of that assumption that being a nerd makes you good at science, it simply isn't true at all. Most nerds utterly suck at science and are only really into it in a very superficial way through sci-fi and poo poo.

Caganer
Feb 15, 2018



COMRADES posted:


Pick herself in another thread said

let’s not turn a thread about sexism into a thread where we weirdly call out one of GBS’s few female posters - I think you can make your point w/o it

Randarkman posted:

Eh, I think it's a common misconception that people who are scientists are maladjusted nerds, or vice versa. I would guess the reason that sexual harassment is rife in the sciences is because many of them, particularly physics and mathematics (and physics to a greater degree) are completely and utterly dominated by men in an institutional sense, and have been for more than 100 years, even continuing to be so after education became more open to women and. I would bet that the problem isn't nearly as prevalent within the fields of chemistry and biology where women are better represented. It's probably this imbalance that has contributed to creating a toxic environment more so than everyone being weird virgin nerds*, and it should also be stated that in physics at least it is also old men who dominate and not just men in general, make of that what you will.

*This is not a defense of weird virgin nerds, I'm just kind of sick of that assumption that being a nerd makes you good at science, it simply isn't true at all. Most nerds utterly suck at science and are only really into it in a very superficial way through sci-fi and poo poo.

Middle/lower class kids are maladjusted - upper class schools recognize being smart is useful. I met many “chad” looking athletic, smart guys in grad school - all usually from Connecticut or some poo poo

COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

MUST

CRUSH

CAPAATAALEISM



Pick is being sexist in this very thread on some and I don't think being a lady should protect her from being called on it in a very light way tbh.

ArbitraryC
Jan 28, 2009



Pillbug

Randarkman posted:

Eh, I think it's a common misconception that people who are scientists are maladjusted nerds, or vice versa. I would guess the reason that sexual harassment is rife in the sciences is because many of them, particularly physics and mathematics (and physics to a greater degree) are completely and utterly dominated by men in an institutional sense, and have been for more than 100 years, even continuing to be so after education became more open to women and. I would bet that the problem isn't nearly as prevalent within the fields of chemistry and biology where women are better represented. It's probably this imbalance that has contributed to creating a toxic environment more so than everyone being weird virgin nerds*, and it should also be stated that in physics at least it is also old men who dominate and not just men in general, make of that what you will.

*This is not a defense of weird virgin nerds, I'm just kind of sick of that assumption that being a nerd makes you good at science, it simply isn't true at all. Most nerds utterly suck at science and are only really into it in a very superficial way through sci-fi and poo poo.

Scientists yeah but engineers and computer touchers it's pretty common. Not all nerds are actually smart of course because actually really smart people are a p small minority, most people are of course average regardless of their hobbies, but yeah you certainly can get bullied in public school for being good at math or whatever. I've tutored a middle schooler who was struggling in pre algebra and when it was clear he could actually do okay when he put forth the effort I asked him why he didn't just try more and he basically said verbatim that he didn't want to get picked on.

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Caganer
Feb 15, 2018



COMRADES posted:

Pick is being sexist in this very thread on some and I don't think being a lady should protect her from being called on it in a very light way tbh.

cool story bro, thanks for explaining that to me.

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