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mutata
Mar 1, 2003

Make way for the Urinal Parade.

IK, I'm specifically gonna suggest you especially read that book I linked to. I'll buy you a copy.

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a hole-y ghost
May 10, 2010



avshalemon posted:

i live with my mother and she has never outgrown the "my daughter is a precious miracle child and everything she makes is magical" mindset, which is lovely and affirming, but the problem is she hangs my artwork up on the walls exclusively so no matter where i go in our house (except my room, which is bare) i find myself entrapped in an endless nightmarish echo chamber of my own work staring at me from all directions
You can't tease us with that description and not post a picture

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


avshalemon posted:

a hall of psychological funhouse mirrors

I think you should work with this burden and make any new paintings you create appear to be explicitly interacting with each other

Sharpest Crayon
Jul 16, 2009

Always Wag. Always Friend. Very Safety.


Grimey Drawer

a hole-y ghost posted:

You can't tease us with that description and not post a picture

You obviously need to start sending prints of your stuff to your parents if you don't know what it's like to go and visit your parents only to find out there's at minimum an entire wall covered in your art.

Edited to add: I am happy that my parents are and always have been so supportive of my art

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


mutata posted:

IK, I'm specifically gonna suggest you especially read that book I linked to. I'll buy you a copy.


*glances at unfinished books in other tabs*

I'm uh...not exactly great at reading long stuff. Why do you think I should read this anyways?

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

Make way for the Urinal Parade.

It's a short read, actually! And I see you post not only here in CC but also in Games about how you seem to constantly be fighting this emotional battle between Dunning-Kruger and Imposter Syndrome and comparing to other artists etc. It's a thing we all do to some degree, but this book specifically was one of the things that helped me get away from that behavior being debilitating and preventing me from working.

Jus' sayin', I see you talking about it a lot is all.

Stuporstar
May 5, 2008

Where do fists come from?


gently caress I cannot write and listen to music. I used to be able to listen to instrumental music because it didn't take up space in the verbal centers of my brain, but the stuff I'm listening to now takes up all my attention. I'm just sitting here with a blank page spacing out on the tunes

avshalemon
Jun 28, 2018


the only non-instrumental music i can write to is leonard cohen

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014


mutata posted:

This is your forum, so fair enough, but I don't really see "don't treat women like poo poo in the creative industries" as particularly political. Ok that's all thaaaanks!

don't you know doing literally anything to acknowledge the status quo might not be so great (god forbid you're not a straight cis white dude) is political!

Stuporstar
May 5, 2008

Where do fists come from?


avshalemon posted:

the only non-instrumental music i can write to is leonard cohen

Probably because Cohen's voice reaches deep into the subsonics, burrowing under your consciousness.

I think just too much is going on in Sun Ra's music. It fills your whole being.

That and the random bursts of spoken word weirdness

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014


mutata posted:

This is your forum, so fair enough, but I don't really see "don't treat women like poo poo in the creative industries" as particularly political. Ok that's all thaaaanks!

also from the 3dcg thread

Big K of Justice posted:

The worse place I've seen it is on some highly professional forums like Linkedin. In regards to Lasseter, I've seen too many shitheads go "This is PC run rampant", or "I don't understand what Lasseter is accused off" and " He's a great inspiration for us along with Catmull".

Catmull? That loving rear end in a top hat? Really? One of the key parts of fixing wages in the VFX/Animation business? gently caress him too.

Almost all of those comments are from the peanut gallery... ie. people who don't even work anywhere close to the entertainment industry.

From my experience, harassment always gets swept under the rug. At best until the current production is over then they can let the person go once their job is complete.

Masturbating system admin who watches porn on his workstation when he thinks no one at the studio? Brushed under the rug.

Sexual harassment against female co-workers from idiots? Buried until the show ends. If someone isn't placed high enough they get laid off and that's it.

Etc. It's depressing. And these were the mild cases. Not stuff like John Kricfalusi hiring underage interns, knocking them up and getting co-workers to drive them to the abortion clinic [that gem just came out a few weeks ago] or Lasseters groping/leering. "No it wasn't just Hugs".

We had one big name director who was pretty out of control in regards to alcohol and drugs and would make insane comments and harass folks, it got to the point the only people allowed near him or in dailies with him had were the studio reps and 2-3 approved people in production on our side as a vendor and that was it. [We even had to blank out artist names on the dailies reels because he would laser focus poo poo on certain individuals.]

The thing that makes this worst is all the crazy people who have no experience with this stuff happening is defending the perpetrators...

I sorta understand that now, because I've seen what happens when sexual harassment does to people who are sheltered to have never encountered it. They literally shut it out of their minds immediately and throw accusations at the accuser. I saw this happen at something as inane as a club outdoor gathering where a hired tour guide fondled one of the member's breasts as part of a "joke". The tour guide was well regarded in the community, and immediately people were threatening the victim despite there being several witnesses. Really messed up, it destroyed the club and it became split over the reaction. The people in charge apologized later because they never planned or imagine it happening to them. No plans and no one knew what to do, so they shut it out of their minds. Crazy.

So I can see why it takes years/decades for victims to come out. You get to be a victim all over again as people call you a liar.

And on Disney, anyone who worked for the mouse, you have to watch several videos and do a quiz on harassment in the workplace. It was mandatory you did it or you would be fired [This happened during a big show at ILM, we were told specifically we had to get this quiz done ASAP or you would be automatically fired, no joke.]. At the end you got a little Disney certificate print out stating you completed Disney worldwide harassment training.

I guess Lasseter never took that quiz..

yeah

a hole-y ghost
May 10, 2010



Sharpest Crayon posted:

You obviously need to start sending prints of your stuff to your parents if you don't know what it's like to go and visit your parents only to find out there's at minimum an entire wall covered in your art.
I'm okay that this is not the case. I think there is a maximum of 3 of my things (all originals) hung up in a relatively tasteful manner

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

Make way for the Urinal Parade.

I'm happy Lasseter is gone given what we know about the environment he was cultivating at Pixar. There are sooo many amazing people there who are just waiting in the wings to tell good stories. Doctor will do well, I think (and hope). Lee over Disney Feature is a perfect choice as well.

Then again, I hate Cars and the whole Cars universe, and that was Lasseter's baby so maybe I'm biased.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


mutata posted:

I'm happy Lasseter is gone given what we know about the environment he was cultivating at Pixar. There are sooo many amazing people there who are just waiting in the wings to tell good stories. Doctor will do well, I think (and hope). Lee over Disney Feature is a perfect choice as well.

Then again, I hate Cars and the whole Cars universe, and that was Lasseter's baby so maybe I'm biased.

My hope is that Disney completely collapses in the next five to ten years and the people "waiting in the wings" realize that they could have just made their own poo poo the entire time, instead of spending fourteen years developing hyperrealistic water churning effects for a bugs life 2: flik's miserable

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014


quick question: do u like to listen to music when you work, if so what kind?

Sitting Here
Dec 31, 2007


Blood Empress of Thunderdome

Tap to emit spores


Clapping Larry

Stuporstar posted:

I'm just sitting here with a blank page spacing out on the tunes

what the, im also Sitting Here with a blank page

shameful admission, i've been writing a lot to the Sim City 5 soundtrack. Something about the bustle gets me going

a hole-y ghost
May 10, 2010



Kanine posted:

quick question: do u like to listen to music when you work, if so what kind?
oh always. the kind really depends on what I'm feeling or what I'm making though

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


Kanine posted:

quick question: do u like to listen to music when you work, if so what kind?

I always listen to something when I draw. Usually its videogame soundtracks because I'm a nerrrrrrrrd.

If I'm really trying to focus on my work (he initial sketch phase to get my lines right mostly) then I'll usually listen to something that is low-key and ambient. If I'm doing something that is relatively easy, such as inking the lines or doing colouring in my usual style, I'll listen to whatever I want. Often I put on a stream in the background and listen to that instead.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk

Having just written a 1200 word story in like 60 min, the Adagio from Sunshine is really good music to write fast to.

avshalemon
Jun 28, 2018


i got dependent on weed to make art and now i'm into my fourth week without any weed, i'm also into my fourth week without any art. which drought will break first? only the LORD knows

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

Make way for the Urinal Parade.

FunkyAl posted:

My hope is that Disney completely collapses in the next five to ten years and the people "waiting in the wings" realize that they could have just made their own poo poo the entire time, instead of spending fourteen years developing hyperrealistic water churning effects for a bugs life 2: flik's miserable

Need money to eat and live, etc. Also it turns out people who make water effects, for example, are FX artists who like being paid to make effects.

lofi
Apr 2, 2018



Music when I'm developing ideas (what exactly I listen to has to match the project), podcasts or audiobooks when I'm rendering/doing grunt work.

Mirage
Oct 27, 2000

At least CyberLowtax likes me.

Sitting Here posted:

shameful admission, i've been writing a lot to the Sim City 5 soundtrack. Something about the bustle gets me going

No shame there, for a while half my playlist was from the Sims. The Simlish radio stations unexpectedly own.

Now I just keep whatever random music I've thumbs-upped on Google Play on shuffle. Transitioning from Frank Sinatra to "Beep Beep I'm a Sheep" flips all sorts of brain switches.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


mutata posted:

Need money to eat and live, etc. Also it turns out people who make water effects, for example, are FX artists who like being paid to make effects.

If like twenty disgruntled pixar employees saved and invested and pooled together a little money over a few years, they could leave and produce their own movie at their own studio, in some garage. Places like bisney/bixar are held together by the false contention that only they know how to make an animated movie, and that animating a movie requires constantly the most cutting-edge technology ("magic") and a huge isolating campus with eight million amenities. Its a lot riskier and theres no garuntee itll work or anyone will make money, but it seems like more fun to me than making increasingly bland cgi funventures for your two bosses, a rapist and an algorithm

I saw Sherlock Gnomes at the theater earlier this year, and the most impressive thing about it was the water effects. The rain, the churning, it was all really phenomenal. But obviously, the movie sucked, the photorealism didnt help it at all. Is there a point to spending so much time and money generating aesthetic effects that are functionally and creatively disconnected from the films purpose? Did the film ever have a purpose, besides that the first one was mildly successful and they could make another one? Does any big cgi film?

What is the purpose of the human creative impulse?


Kanine posted:

quick question: do u like to listen to music when you work, if so what kind?

https://youtu.be/IYrySQsMjdE

Have you ever watched a moooonbeeammm

As it slid across your windowpaaane

Stuporstar
May 5, 2008

Where do fists come from?


So apparently I can't even listen to Sun Ra's most chill vibes while writing because it demands too much attention. So I let autoplay on YouTube just do its thing, and I don't know why its algorithm chooses what it does, but it's taking me to magical places. Maybe I can write to some of this.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

I don't have to listen to music and there are times I'd prefer not to, but usually I just put on spotify and let it take me where it will (you might have to train it a little bit). That said, the Transistor (the game) soundtrack is probably my all-time favorite background album

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

Make way for the Urinal Parade.

FunkyAl posted:

If like twenty disgruntled pixar employees saved and invested and pooled together a little money over a few years, they could leave and produce their own movie at their own studio, in some garage. Places like bisney/bixar are held together by the false contention that only they know how to make an animated movie, and that animating a movie requires constantly the most cutting-edge technology ("magic") and a huge isolating campus with eight million amenities. Its a lot riskier and theres no garuntee itll work or anyone will make money, but it seems like more fun to me than making increasingly bland cgi funventures for your two bosses, a rapist and an algorithm

I saw Sherlock Gnomes at the theater earlier this year, and the most impressive thing about it was the water effects. The rain, the churning, it was all really phenomenal. But obviously, the movie sucked, the photorealism didnt help it at all. Is there a point to spending so much time and money generating aesthetic effects that are functionally and creatively disconnected from the films purpose? Did the film ever have a purpose, besides that the first one was mildly successful and they could make another one? Does any big cgi film?

What is the purpose of the human creative impulse?


https://youtu.be/IYrySQsMjdE

Have you ever watched a moooonbeeammm

As it slid across your windowpaaane

Ehhhhhhhhh you're not wrong in general, but some people (A) like Disney and enjoy working for them and having benefits, (B) don't want to switch from having a well-paying job on comfortable campuses working on guaranteed high-profile high-budget projects with like-minded people and top-of-the-field artists and TDs to launching a business from the ground up, chasing funding, and pitching to an indifferent and over saturated audience. Most people who start their own teams end up doing everything EXCEPT producing art. Different strokes.

There are a LOT of artists who go through Dis who feel the way you do, certainly. They pretty quickly cycle out though. The ones who stay are generally the ones who like it.

There's PLENTY wrong with the Mouse (I worked for them for years and they shut my division down and laid us all off), but I don't blame people for wanting to work there.

mutata fucked around with this message at Jul 2, 2018 around 19:11

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


FunkyAl posted:

If like twenty disgruntled pixar employees saved and invested and pooled together a little money over a few years, they could leave and produce their own movie at their own studio, in some garage. Places like bisney/bixar are held together by the false contention that only they know how to make an animated movie, and that animating a movie requires constantly the most cutting-edge technology ("magic") and a huge isolating campus with eight million amenities. Its a lot riskier and theres no garuntee itll work or anyone will make money, but it seems like more fun to me than making increasingly bland cgi funventures for your two bosses, a rapist and an algorithm

So then they do that and it bombs because, regardless of quality, movies live and die by their advertising budget. Sure the quality of the movie might be amazing and it could be a cult classic but that's small comfort when you are suddenly unemployed and have to claw your way back into a highly-competitive job market.

It'd be nice if we lived in a society where people could freely explore creative interests without worry but the world can't even agree that putting children in cages is bad so that's not gonna happen. I'm pretty sure most people at Pixar are quite happy to have gotten a job with their talents, even if it they don't get to be the creative director. Besides, every day at work they build skills that will help their own personal creative pursuits, which I think is pretty desirable.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.


mutata posted:

Ehhhhhhhhh you're not wrong in general, but some people (A) like Disney and enjoy working for them and having benefits, (B) don't want to switch from having a well-paying job on comfortable campuses working on guaranteed high-profile high-budget projects with like-minded people and top-of-the-field artists and TDs to launching a business from the ground up, chasing funding, and pitching to an indifferent and over saturated audience. Most people who start their own teams end up doing everything EXCEPT producing art. Different strokes.

There are a LOT of artists who go through Dis who feel the way you do, certainly. They pretty quickly cycle out though. The ones who stay are generally the ones who like it.

There's PLENTY wrong with the Mouse (I worked for them for years and they shut my division down and laid us all off), but I don't blame people for wanting to work there.

I don't blame people for wanting the job either, I just think a lot of the problems people have both within and outside of places like disney could be easily solved by the people working there. If everybody there, the top of the field artists and TDs and renderers and everybody, all quit at once and started their own things, we'd probably have a healthier media landscape and people like lasseter would be less able to abuse their power, because the power would be less consolidated in once place like that. And I know thats a huge stretch, but philisophically I think its important to realize a company can't actually work without the input of the individual actors.

Internet Kraken posted:

So then they do that and it bombs because, regardless of quality, movies live and die by their advertising budget. Sure the quality of the movie might be amazing and it could be a cult classic but that's small comfort when you are suddenly unemployed and have to claw your way back into a highly-competitive job market.

It'd be nice if we lived in a society where people could freely explore creative interests without worry but the world can't even agree that putting children in cages is bad so that's not gonna happen. I'm pretty sure most people at Pixar are quite happy to have gotten a job with their talents, even if it they don't get to be the creative director. Besides, every day at work they build skills that will help their own personal creative pursuits, which I think is pretty desirable.

Perhaps, but in a smaller production like that you're contending with a lot less pressure than a studio-level movie is, for a smaller audience, for a larger total percentage of the film's profits. You don't need to have your movie advertised on cans of pepsi to turn the profit you need, you just need to find ways to effectively reach the niche audience your hypothetical film would hypothetically need to. The question of HOW to do that is the huge obstacle, but there's all sorts of options available to you that a big company wouldn't be flexible enough to try. (example: tour a film city to city, buy local ad space as you go as opposed to dropping a big sum on one national campaign, strategically build online buzz and anticipation for film arriving in YOUR TOWN.) Failure is of course the most likely outcome of this kind of endeavor, but that risk is an essential part of true creative freedom. And in the end, your failure is probably going to more impressive and teach you more than most people's successes.

Here's Ralph Bakshi talking about what I am going for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WApcUBcVMos Ralph did it! So why can't anyone else?

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

To draw an analogy, the indy game scene didnít really exist until Steam came along and gave everyone a platform, but even then itís a huge loving crapshoot. Any sort of indie animation is going to have a similar problem, but I kinda feel that itís harder to indy animation than games (saying without any experience)? Netflix, Amazon, et al could be the Steam, but they seem more interested in bigger budget stuff?

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014


Internet Kraken posted:

So then they do that and it bombs because, regardless of quality, movies live and die by their advertising budget. Sure the quality of the movie might be amazing and it could be a cult classic but that's small comfort when you are suddenly unemployed and have to claw your way back into a highly-competitive job market.

It'd be nice if we lived in a society where people could freely explore creative interests without worry but the world can't even agree that putting children in cages is bad so that's not gonna happen.I'm pretty sure most people at Pixar are quite happy to have gotten a job with their talents, even if it they don't get to be the creative director. Besides, every day at work they build skills that will help their own personal creative pursuits, which I think is pretty desirable.

capitalism.txt

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014


that brings up another question i have actually, when climate change, economic collapse, and the resultant political turmoil make poo poo hit the fan over the next two decades do you think you're going to keep trying to be an artist?

personally ill probably be the guy in my leftist militia that makes cool propaganda posters to paste all over the burned out city we're liberating

lofi
Apr 2, 2018



I'm gonna make spiked armour for twinks.

avshalemon
Jun 28, 2018


Kanine posted:

that brings up another question i have actually, when climate change, economic collapse, and the resultant political turmoil make poo poo hit the fan over the next two decades do you think you're going to keep trying to be an artist?

personally ill probably be the guy in my leftist militia that makes cool propaganda posters to paste all over the burned out city we're liberating
absolutely. economic collapse will make it easier to be an artist, not harder - not because i won't be starving (i'll be starving) but because everybody else will be starving alongside me. lawyers, truck drivers, dentists, everyone. it will remove all thoughts of a lifestyle other than art and allow me to zero down on my true purpose, drawing dicks on every monument i see

a hole-y ghost
May 10, 2010



Kanine posted:

that brings up another question i have actually, when climate change, economic collapse, and the resultant political turmoil make poo poo hit the fan over the next two decades do you think you're going to keep trying to be an artist?

personally ill probably be the guy in my leftist militia that makes cool propaganda posters to paste all over the burned out city we're liberating
Government collapses will inevitably lead to warlords and tyrants taking over, and gently caress if warlords and tyrants don't love them some aggrandizing images of themselves, so yeah

Antivehicular
Dec 30, 2011

I won a rosette in the Thunderdome


avshalemon posted:

absolutely. economic collapse will make it easier to be an artist, not harder - not because i won't be starving (i'll be starving) but because everybody else will be starving alongside me. lawyers, truck drivers, dentists, everyone. it will remove all thoughts of a lifestyle other than art and allow me to zero down on my true purpose, drawing dicks on every monument i see

I'm just imagining the Statue of Liberty scene from Planet of the Apes, except it's covered in lovingly-rendered phalluses, and Charlton Heston is openly weeping in joy at the craftsmanship on display, a level his decadent home time could never reach

smallmouth
Oct 1, 2009



I entered a call for art today. I hate that it costs up to $40 to enter these things. On one hand I understand a barrier for entry, on the other it's just kinda poo poo. I generally only enter one or two a year because it feels like lighting money on fire.

Stuporstar
May 5, 2008

Where do fists come from?


Kanine posted:

that brings up another question i have actually, when climate change, economic collapse, and the resultant political turmoil make poo poo hit the fan over the next two decades do you think you're going to keep trying to be an artist?

personally ill probably be the guy in my leftist militia that makes cool propaganda posters to paste all over the burned out city we're liberating

I will journey across the landscape seeking to preserve knowledge, eventually cloistering myself with like-minded people in a secular monastery somewhere incredibly difficult to get to in the hopes we won't be raided by the roving biker gangs

Al!
Apr 2, 2010





smallmouth posted:

I entered a call for art today. I hate that it costs up to $40 to enter these things. On one hand I understand a barrier for entry, on the other it's just kinda poo poo. I generally only enter one or two a year because it feels like lighting money on fire.

you will have to pardon me b/c im not familiar with these kinds of things but what is this???

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smallmouth
Oct 1, 2009



Galleries or orgs have juried art shows. To apply to enter it costs anywhere between 25-$40. Obviously most people who apply are not invited.

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