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Hi, I'm Mike and I'm an idiot. I used to think I knew how to actually fix Subarus. A long time ago, I restored a 67 Cadillac and a 1999 Subaru Impreza RS. I sold those and decided to do a WRX because I thought my RS was too slow in Rallycross. Turns out, I'm just a bad driver. Oh well. This thread is going to document the third tear down of the WRX motor. Here is how it happened. Started out with this on Saturday at the RallyCross. Looks fun right?  It was a blast. Brought my 13 year old granddaughter as my co-driver. She had fun too. Unfortunately, I was losing oil pressure all day. I knew it, but kept driving because I didn't want to disappoint her. Yes, I'm an idiot. The car was stalling at idle, and I tried to drive it home. It died. Wife came and picked us up. I posted a "Anyone got a trailer?" and a very cool random SCCA dude offered up his trailer right away. Brought my truck over hooked up to his father in law's trailer, and brought the car home.  Interesting thing is that it kept stalling at idle. I think the rolling resistance is getting worse because something is munched. A little bit if dirt got into the skidplate. I could plant a garden in that soil  Finally got it in the garage. Here is a shot of the magnetic drain plug.  Next up: Do I stop feeling sorry for myself and fix it, or tear it down and say "gently caress Subaru turbos forever" daslog fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jun 27, 2018 |
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Jun 27, 2018 01:26
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Did it make Diong doing noises, and was the dump guard hitting the sump?
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Jun 27, 2018 01:56
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Kaptainballistik posted:Did it make Diong doing noises, and was the dump guard hitting the sump? I didn't really notice anything besides the usual forged pistons sewing machine noise. Oil pressure was 35 at WOT and 12 at idle.
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Jun 27, 2018 02:29
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Ah, so it’s not doing the liftoff “dong” as well? Fortunately it may be only a rod and crank replace. I would suggest flush the thing with Deisel before disassembly. And the way the sump is made makes it a nightmare to clean the shrapnel out... so seriously co differ just getting a new one.
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Jun 27, 2018 04:02
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And change the oil pickup, fit a 11mm pump, and get the stupid 5 sided torx head socket to disassemble and clean the acvs actuators.
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Jun 27, 2018 04:02
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He has a good pickup and should just be able to clean it out. But yeah, new sti pan is like $75 which worth not cleaning out and trying to reseal the old one.
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Jun 27, 2018 04:05
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Kaptainballistik posted:And change the oil pickup, fit a 11mm pump, and get the stupid 5 sided torx head socket to disassemble and clean the acvs actuators. No AVCS on this one! I've never had to clean anything with Diesel before. Sounds stinky
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Jun 27, 2018 11:15
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daslog posted:It was a blast. Brought my 13 year old granddaughter as my co-driver. She had fun too. Unfortunately, I was losing oil pressure all day. I knew it, but kept driving because I didn't want to disappoint her. Yes, I'm an idiot. Idiot? No. You sacrificed your ride to blast round a track with your granddaughter and have fun. Hero. Hopefully it's nothing too expensive to fix!
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Jun 27, 2018 13:13
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I'd do a postmortem on the motor, maybe replace with one of the blocks you got kicking around and either sell or keep. Up to you. Either way I want to see you in something reliable because I want a rematch. My 250 dollar not running well 1.8L shitbox: 
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Jun 27, 2018 16:59
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Kaptainballistik posted:fit a 11mm pump 11mm pump has a lower bypass pressure (something like 65psi), and is meant for dual-avcs. On a non avcs motor with around standard bearing clearances it put out more oil than you need at a lower pressure. The result is less oil going through the bearings and more going through the bypass, which heats it and can cause aeration.
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Jun 27, 2018 18:45
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jamal posted:He has a good pickup and should just be able to clean it out. For the cost and their love of cracking when rallying.... I’m sticking with changing it.
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Jun 28, 2018 12:28
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jamal posted:11mm pump has a lower bypass pressure (something like 65psi), and is meant for dual-avcs. On a non avcs motor with around standard bearing clearances it put out more oil than you need at a lower pressure. The result is less oil going through the bearings and more going through the bypass, which heats it and can cause aeration. And what about when you have 105 degree oil at 39 km in? With the monster s204 oilcooler... You will love that extra 11mm... but hey, up to you. I really like the extra oil pressure when it’s all hot and 95 deg C... in a tight stage. Back on Diesel..... If you have thrown a bearing you will have this really fine silt everywhere... and I do mean eveverywhere. You need to pull every Oil galley plug out methodologicaly and really check everything. It’s not too bad, just time consuming. Kaptainballistik fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Jun 28, 2018 |
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Jun 28, 2018 12:30
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The classic Subaru 11mm oil pump debate is making me think, again, about putting together a kit to bypass the internal oil pressure relief to somewhere where it's not just continually recycling the bypass oil.
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Jun 28, 2018 14:45
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Kaptainballistik posted:For the cost and their love of cracking when rallying.... I’m sticking with changing it. The killer B pickup? I'll be posting images of it when I get the thing apart. Part of me wants to just say "gently caress turbos forever"
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Jun 28, 2018 15:41
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A turbocharged track car has never seemed like a sane use of my time/effort, just saying. And this is from a rotary guy. 
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Jun 28, 2018 15:57
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daslog posted:The killer B pickup? I'll be posting images of it when I get the thing apart. SO MANY YES TO THIS!!!!!!
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Jun 28, 2018 22:38
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It usually takes me about 5 hours to pull the engine out of the WRX because of all the stupid turbo bits. gently caress this car. Tonight I: Drained the coolant Removed Radiator Removed Air filter box Removed power steering pump Removed alternator Removed A/C compressor disconnected 4 out of 5 bolts that connect the turbo to the down pipe. Also, as usual I didn't unplug the radiator fans until everything was nice and wet below the car from draining the radiator. I'm so lazy now that I don't even bother with a drain hose. I just undo the stupid drain plug until it falls out and drains coolant all over U frame. Pictures Radiator out  AC, PS, and Alternator poo poo out  Also tried turning the engine by hand. It barely moves. It's probably hosed.
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Jun 30, 2018 02:29
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Undo crank bolt before it comes out... and loosen the cam bolts! And for blowing your mind.... jack the car and pull the front Driveshaft’s (undo the knuckle bolt and yank.....) if you do , you can get to the trans bolts REALLY easily! Kaptainballistik fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Jun 30, 2018 |
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Jun 30, 2018 03:07
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Kaptainballistik posted:Undo crank bolt before it comes out... and loosen the cam bolts! Won't need to do the crank bolt before it's out because the engine barely spins! For the cam bolts, I use Valve Grinding compound to fill in the gaps. Works every time.
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Jun 30, 2018 03:10
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Well... it’s a tad easier in the car... just sayin 😁😁😂
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Jun 30, 2018 03:27
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Why is it that every Subaru thread seems to start out with "So my engine died from oil starvation..."
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Jun 30, 2018 18:54
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Because Subaru’s spin bigend bearings if they get a big starvation event.
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Jul 1, 2018 13:49
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Let alone the reality is that plenty of WRX's are going past 15 years old now. My wagon is 22 years, the yellow WRX is 19. The Ugly Betty is even a decade old now. Cars last amazingly well now but still...... you can only expect so much.
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Jul 1, 2018 13:58
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I hate this car. the Nut that goes on #2 is stuck. Can't really get a socked on this one because Invidia doesn't leave any room for one. Only thing that works is an open ended wrench. I've tried PB blaster and heat. One side of the nut is starting to strip a bit. I'm going to have to take out the CV axle shaft and use the air chisel on it. gently caress this car. I hate Subarus. daslog fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jul 1, 2018 |
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Jul 1, 2018 19:30
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Do the wrench extension trick?
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Jul 1, 2018 21:38
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daslog posted:I'm going to have to take out the CV axle shaft and use the air chisel on On mine I could get a grinder up there ...
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Jul 2, 2018 00:17
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Coasterphreak posted:Why is it that every Subaru thread seems to start out with "So my engine died from oil starvation..." I daily a 248k mile WRX. The rally car after a few cluster swaps is somewhere around 160k miles? I got it at 72k. The only two motor issues ive had was a high miles 2.5 I've over rev'd and had a slight rod knock. It drove over 1000 miles before I did a shortblock swap. The other was a high miles junkyard shortblock motor that I drove for a few years and finally had a valve or ring issue that consumed oil at the rate of 1 qt per 100 miles. It cost me more in oil than gas to daily but I drove it until I found time to swap in our lord and saviors own 2.2. These motors are loving poo poo and stupid, but there are good ones and bad ones. Some deserve mechanical sympathy. Some deserve to be beat within an inch of their AAA tow radius.
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Jul 2, 2018 02:48
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Most “tuners” use what’s called a “ping tune”. For road use it’s “fine” (that’s ubjective as it’s a really poo poo way to tune and also would be why so many ej25’s poo poo their diapers...) and will give you a quick spool. And it gives you really crap fuel economy. Basically you dump fuel into the tune to stop it pinging. It’s main fall down is vibration will dampen outt the ping sensing and motor goes bang. And Subaru motors are pretty bad for popping stuff when you get pinging... like bearings... just like a Rotary. Pulling big revs is also bad news when you run a restrictor as it causes an effective lean /high temp environment as you are “choking the intake”... Basically when you hit max warp don’t just peg it, roll off the throttle. So in short... for road use it’ll work... for Rally it’s beyond bad news. Kaptainballistik fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 03:06
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As far as the oil pump goes, having the 10mm and not 11mm was not the problem. Like I said, the 11mm has a lower bypass, at 78psi compared to 85. 78psi is enough for most uses so that doesn't really matter. It also flows 10% more oil which you would also think wouldn't be a problem. But why does subaru make that pump? For cars with 4 avcs solenoids. Daslog's car has ZERO avcs solenoids. So now where does the extra oil go? Just back through the bypass. All that accomplishes is excessive heating and wear of the oil. If, despite having a bypass pressure of 78psi you are seeing higher oil pressure than that at the galleys, think about how that is occurring. The pump is not only flowing more oil than the engine needs, but more oil than the bypass can handle, causing an increase in pressure. I fail to see how this can possibly be a good thing. Soooo, ,what did happen here? Obviously it still has to come apart, but there are only so many possibilities. First, the pickup sucked some air. Less likely with that pan and pickup but not impossible. Second, an oil film issue in the bearing. Maybe it was knocking due to the heat. Maybe an injector wasn't flowing enough or there was a vacuum leak or something like that which caused a lean condition. The tops of the pistons, or the other, not completely trashed, bearings might show signs of this. Third, a tolerance issue. Even if the measured bearing clearances are in spec, the main bores can be slightly out of alignment. So one side of the main bearing has too much clearance, the other not enough. That means not enough flow to the rod, since the oil goes to the rod bearings through the mains. Or maybe the rod bearing clearances were just not quite right. Fourth, assembly problem. Rod bolt over/under torqued for example. And yeah, that lower downpipe nut can be a hassle, especially with a bellmouth downpipe. Like KB said, tightening the other bolts back up could help. jamal fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 04:09
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Someone find me a project car in New England that isn't a Subaru and can do a Rallycross.
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Jul 2, 2018 15:05
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daslog posted:Someone find me a project car in New England that isn't a Subaru and can do a Rallycross. This could be a really fun projcet
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Jul 2, 2018 15:31
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Made some progress today. I ended up taking out the Axel Shaft to make room and used and air chisel on the loving nut. God dam that sucked. Sucks even more when 80 pounds of silt from Rochester Fairgrounds falls on your head. The engine is out. Needs more plumbing.  Ghetto rear end chain doubled up because I don't care  On the stand. Done for day.  Next up, taking the intake off and the spark plugs to see how hard it is to turn.
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Jul 2, 2018 23:11
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daslog posted:Someone find me a project car in New England that isn't a Subaru and can do a Rallycross. Can I interest you in a Tercel from Ontario?
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Jul 2, 2018 23:15
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I'll pass! Also, I got this in the mail today. 
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Jul 2, 2018 23:19
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daslog posted:I'll pass! You say that, but the tercel I'm thinking of is already missing at least 50% of its factory mass and you are all but gauranteed to die while driving it. I'd say it's a perfect replacement for a subaru.
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Jul 2, 2018 23:59
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jamal posted:As far as the oil pump goes, having the 10mm and not 11mm was not the problem. Well.. On a Rallycar with a sump guard that oil cooker* (that’s not a typo...) is also surrounded by a exhaust system. The Air water cooler really has a problem getting the temp down. Hence 105 Deg on your oil temp is par the course on a long stage. And that’s post oil cooler temp. Why is this pertinent? Because when you are doing a Motorkhana your oil temp skyrockets.. let alone rallycross (higher revs/hot exhaust... you get the point..) the 11mm pump will be happily pushing 65-70 psi where the 10mm is pushing 40 psi.... *oil filter
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Jul 3, 2018 02:36
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If your hot oil pressure at high rpm is 40psi, you've got other problems. Wouldn't it be better to solve a high oil temp/low pressure issue with better cooling and/or the appropriate oil weight instead of a pump that is going to be putting excessive oil through the bypass the other 99% of the time? Also, the spec-c cooler isn't really adequate for actual motorsports use as you've found out.
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Jul 4, 2018 02:43
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Edit: I’m going to say, we choose to disagree , and move on after the below... On a track car? Yes, I would agree. You add a sump guard to a WRX and you have no chance in keeping the temp down. Especially in a tight 2nd-3rd gear stage. Even with a monster oil cooler. Running LiquiMoly oil also helps. (Awesome stuff, great with Vodka... wait....) It’s not so bad when you run ELF moose piss. But that’s $15 A LITRE. That’s the way life is. Even the WRC cars had big issues with it. Kaptainballistik fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Jul 4, 2018 |
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Jul 4, 2018 04:03
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Won't massive amounts of oil going through the bypass heat the oil? It's a restriction to flow, that's heat. Seems counter productive to run an oil pump with considerably higher flow than needed on a vehicle that spends most of its time doing normal driving.
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Jul 4, 2018 15:17
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What works for street use isn't necessarily what works in other use cases. The point is that with a skidplate, a lot of WOT, and not much airflow, the exhaust is going to do a lot more to heat the sump than pushing oil through the bypass would.
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Jul 4, 2018 18:26
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