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Max
Nov 30, 2002



Lol I think I know what Anpu's power is.

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Max
Nov 30, 2002



IcePhoenix posted:

Where am I on this list

Hovering just over the line.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida



Max posted:

Hovering just over the line.

I don't know if that's good or bad.

Max posted:

Lol I think I know what Anpu's power is.

I have a theory on it as well and have been considering making a bunch of posts specifically to test if I'm right or not lol

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


IcePhoenix posted:

I don't know if that's good or bad.


I have a theory on it as well and have been considering making a bunch of posts specifically to test if I'm right or not lol

I would like to hear this theory

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida



Moatillata posted:

I would like to hear this theory

I'm not going to possibly out a townie role on d2

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


Moatillata posted:

I would like to hear this theory

me too. after beet claims, of course.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011


Okay I went to cool off for a bit and take care of some chores, so I can explain where I'm coming from here.

wrt b-:

Atomic Soda posted:

hey bman who do you think is scum?

two posts made in short succession of each other

b-minus1 posted:

If this question was for me, I apologize. I thought you were asking beet for his reads.

After skimming the thread I feel like slamburger soda apnu and max are my strongest town reads. Cooling on my scumread of flerp.

Lean scum on Moat and iceman primarily as a result of reading other peoples cases. Ill make some of my own as soon as I can

b-minus1 posted:

Apnu good IMO. Starting to get sus AF of Mona and beet.

"I want to make some reads of my own as soon as I can", the switches his list from Moat and IcePhoenix to me and Beet. I would like to know what changed there, because as it stands, it -does- look like Beet is right - that b- is just hopping onto Anpu's case without any real regard for what he had thought before. These posts were made within about an hour of each other, so it seems weird he never brings up Moat and IcePhoenix again and instead hypertunnels onto Beet.

b- has been called out by flerp for not actually having much play here, which as far as I can tell b- has largely ignored except for "sorry i'm lakeposting", I find that's much more damning of b-'s scum game than making sweeping "x y and z" are town declarations, which:

Slamburger posted:

Its a meta read, based on how many town calls he made D1. Scum bminus is averse to those types of reads because it brings heat on him.

is why things read as hollow to me. It's easy to make sweeping declarations of people as town when you're scum - you know who's scum, it's easy cred, it's not alignment-indicative even a little bit, and I don't know why you think it'd be indicative of town b- in general as a meta read.

wrt Anpu:

Slamburger posted:

It took me a little while to come around to it, but once I re-read Anpu its pretty clear that he's telegraphing that he has a result, which is why I voted Beet last night.

Mona do you not see it in that light and think Anpu's just making wierd posts, or what? I also don't get why you're so angry about this.

This is why I want anpu to claim, this right here. If Anpu is breadcrumbing he has an investigative result on Beet, and Beet, is scum, then if it's obvious to town it's 200% obvious to scum, and he's already probably tonight's target. It makes no sense to withhold a result after you've already claimed a PR to avoid being dunked yesterday and now trying to tiptoe around the fact that you have results on Beet. It's loving nonsense. It only serves to hurt town because you've ALREADY painted a target on your back by saying you have a PR. Trying to tiptoe around having results only works if you haven't already claimed.

In addition to that, just in case:

EccoRaven posted:

Oh no! The mafia gambling ring has been secretly infiltrated by the coppers! Time to roll up your sleeves and turn these pigs into bacon.

:s: Tao Jones, Julia Parmenos, Boss (mafia-aligned sane cop), has been magickally frozen in time night 0. :s:

everyone who is concerned about PRs should be thinking about this. The flavor is that we're scum and the coppers are town. It would not be unlike an Eccogame for the only investigative role to be an Insane Cop who gets innocent/town results on scum (because they're the cops) and scum reads on town (because we're a bunch of vice-addicted bastards)

This plus Anpu's self-assuredness about his own role and how much it's a help to Town has me extremely frustrated because it's not a 100% lock.

If you put a gun to my head right this minute, I guess I'd admit that Anpu might actually be town but I think b- is obviously buddying up to Anpu in a way I don't find townie at all, especially with their almost beat-for-beat reiterance of Anpu's own case (which was not good, but I could in fact see it as a poor smokescreen for having results on someone) makes me feel like Anpu might be Insane Cop with a scum result on beet and thinking that's a lock, while b- is scum encouraging the misdunk.

Either way, this entire setup of b- and Anpu is setting off alarm bells in one way or another that's been driving me up the wall for half the drat day.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011


Here I'll even ##unvote in good faith so maybe people will actually read my loving post

Max
Nov 30, 2002



I'm fairly certain Anpu isn't a cop.

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


It's pretty remarkable that you didn't even entertain the possibility that Anpu is town and his result on Beet, whatever it may be, is real (aka beet is scum). and my "buddying up" to Anpu is because I read his posts and believe that he caught a scum.

Your gun to the head scenario is that Anpu is town, but has a false result of Beet, who is town. (you also assume that his result must be investigative for some reason), And I am scum that is buddying up to Anpu to try to force a mislynch of beet. THAT is what you think is happening here?


quote:

It makes no sense to withhold a result after you've already claimed a PR to avoid being dunked yesterday and now trying to tiptoe around the fact that you have results on Beet. It's loving nonsense. It only serves to hurt town because you've ALREADY painted a target on your back by saying you have a PR. Trying to tiptoe around having results only works if you haven't already claimed.
.
I completely disagree. If I had a result that convinced me that I nailed a scum, I would absolutely use it to frustrate that player and try to bait them into making a scumslip. Yes, even if it frustrates the town in the process.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011


Max posted:

I'm fairly certain Anpu isn't a cop.

Would you like to inform the rest of town what you think Anpu's actually doing to clear the air, or do you think that deliberately obfuscating a PR who's already drawn enough heat onto himself is good town play?

Max
Nov 30, 2002



b-minus1 posted:

I completely disagree. If I had a result that convinced me that I nailed a scum, I would absolutely use it to frustrate that player and try to bait them into making a scumslip. Yes, even if it frustrates the town in the process.

I don't know about frustrating someone, but yes using that info to case scum / get them to give more opinions without claiming is the right move.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Monathin posted:

Would you like to inform the rest of town what you think Anpu's actually doing to clear the air, or do you think that deliberately obfuscating a PR who's already drawn enough heat onto himself is good town play?

I ain't no snitch.

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


Max posted:

I don't know about frustrating someone, but yes using that info to case scum / get them to give more opinions without claiming is the right move.

I meant frustrating someone within the context of mafia, not on a personal level.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011


b-minus1 posted:

Your gun to the head scenario is that Anpu is town, but has a false result of Beet, who is town. (you also assume that his result must be investigative for some reason), And I am scum that is buddying up to Anpu to try to force a mislynch of beet. THAT is what you think is happening here?

Yes, because I think you're a dirty lying fuckhead scumbo and people's 'meta reads' of you haven't convinced me even a little bit.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011


But you know what? Fine? I'll admit I'm being shouted down here, so I'm just gonna walk away until deadline and let the rest of you fucks sort it out.

You -clearly- don't need me muddying the waters here.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Who is shouting at you?

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


wtf dude - who is shouting??? like no joke, i do not understand what is bothering you right now

If you actually are town, then take a breather and come back. You're not muddying the waters imo, even if I disagree with most of what you've said (and you're convinced that I am scum).

flerp
Feb 25, 2014

I DON'T ALWAYS
HERDY DUR MUR FLERP FLERPITY
FLOOPIN
BUT WHEN I DO
I YER DER FLERPITY
THURN DER DERMIN
BORK! BORK! BORK!







b-minus1 posted:

I completely disagree. If I had a result that convinced me that I nailed a scum, I would absolutely use it to frustrate that player and try to bait them into making a scumslip. Yes, even if it frustrates the town in the process.

except anpu isnt doing this

flerp
Feb 25, 2014

I DON'T ALWAYS
HERDY DUR MUR FLERP FLERPITY
FLOOPIN
BUT WHEN I DO
I YER DER FLERPITY
THURN DER DERMIN
BORK! BORK! BORK!







im gonna be honest, ive looked thru anpu's post history, and i really dont see why people r so convinced he's an investigative role, and why he has a scum result on beet.

flerp
Feb 25, 2014

I DON'T ALWAYS
HERDY DUR MUR FLERP FLERPITY
FLOOPIN
BUT WHEN I DO
I YER DER FLERPITY
THURN DER DERMIN
BORK! BORK! BORK!







flerp posted:

im gonna be honest, ive looked thru anpu's post history, and i really dont see why people r so convinced he's an investigative role, and why people think he has a scum result on beet.

Anpu
Jun 26, 2018

I have opened your two eyes. I have opened your mouth with the instruments of Anpu...

Monathin is angry because of a legitimate scum slip. He and Beetphyxious posted highly coordinated attempts to discredit me, and after Beet flips scum there’s a very real chance Monathin will be chain lynched. I can understand the frustration, maybe they thought the case was good enough, maybe they thought I would appear suspicious enough that momentum would build naturally.

They were wrong, and now they are standing to lose two scum in one stroke. Monathin is now attempting to channel that annoyance into an ‘outraged town’ persona, but due to not actually being annoyed about what they are claiming they are annoyed about, it is unnaturally bolstered and misdirected, following no actual sense.

As a direct comparison, I would say there is a real chance that Flerp is actually a frustrated town player. I am very sorry for my comments yesterday Flerp, mafia should never involve personal attacks.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



flerp posted:

im gonna be honest, ive looked thru anpu's post history, and i really dont see why people r so convinced he's an investigative role, and why he has a scum result on beet.

I think it's Anpu saying "Beet is 100% scum" which is throwing people off. I think that's just his posting style. But I agree with you.

flerp
Feb 25, 2014

I DON'T ALWAYS
HERDY DUR MUR FLERP FLERPITY
FLOOPIN
BUT WHEN I DO
I YER DER FLERPITY
THURN DER DERMIN
BORK! BORK! BORK!







now youre doubling down on mona and beet being highly coordinated scum team hellbent on destroying your credibility because mona replied to one of beet's comments about you

flerp
Feb 25, 2014

I DON'T ALWAYS
HERDY DUR MUR FLERP FLERPITY
FLOOPIN
BUT WHEN I DO
I YER DER FLERPITY
THURN DER DERMIN
BORK! BORK! BORK!







these are the HIGHLY COORDINATED posts btw

Beetphyxious posted:

lol on my read back that person was you anpu. christ your posting on day 1 was bad and if i was here i would have been pushing hard for your lynch.

Monathin posted:

to be honest the fact anpu claimed a PR to avoid being duned and scum didn't kill them is mad fishy to me, personally

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


I admit that Mona’s frustration seems genuine. Would scum Mona really elect to defend his scumpartner beet, especially at this point when beet’s Lynch seems inevitable?

Anpu
Jun 26, 2018

I have opened your two eyes. I have opened your mouth with the instruments of Anpu...

b-minus1 posted:

I admit that Mona’s frustration seems genuine. Would scum Mona really elect to defend his scumpartner beet, especially at this point when beet’s Lynch seems inevitable?

It was not inevitable when the mistake was made.

And I doubt he’d be as frustrated as he is did he not know Beetphyxious was scum. If they didn’t know Beetphyxious’s alignment, they might be open to the idea that day 2 I would be lunch meat for getting a town player lynched. Instead they are annoyed because they already know what will happen.

Dancer
May 23, 2011


So hey, hi, I've been lurking cuz I've been away, yadda yadda, let's mafia.

First thing I did when I decided to engage with this thread is check VF and apparently Beet is vote leader. And I just don't get it, primarily because everyone opposing Beet seems so much more suss to me (or at least misguided).

Why Anpu is suspect has been debated plenty, and I'd have little to add, so I'm skipping that.

Dancer
May 23, 2011


I've already made a comment on not liking b-.

Furthermore:
Here b- is mad that Beet dares discuss bus driver strategy. Like, I also disagree with beet's argument that "never ever use it" is not the way to go, but I think that strategy discussion like that can be very useful, and is a pro-town move.
He then proceeds to say he hates a post that to me reads as basically alignment neutral, it's just a defense that could be written by town or scum.
Then he's mad again about bus driver talk.

Later he does make a post I read as town:

b-minus1 posted:

It's pretty remarkable that you didn't even entertain the possibility that Anpu is town and his result on Beet, whatever it may be, is real (aka beet is scum). and my "buddying up" to Anpu is because I read his posts and believe that he caught a scum.

Your gun to the head scenario is that Anpu is town, but has a false result of Beet, who is town. (you also assume that his result must be investigative for some reason), And I am scum that is buddying up to Anpu to try to force a mislynch of beet. THAT is what you think is happening here?
.
I completely disagree. If I had a result that convinced me that I nailed a scum, I would absolutely use it to frustrate that player and try to bait them into making a scumslip. Yes, even if it frustrates the town in the process.
For whatever it's worth, this also meshes with b- meta. in DBZ mafia he went all crazy when he saw me visiting a person who happened to die that night.

Conclusion: I read b- as town with a slight tunnel. I think he's being way too harsh on beet, and not harsh enough on Anpu.

Dancer
May 23, 2011


Ugh, scratch that, I think I've at least partially changed my mind mid-argument. Slam and Max (also Moat but I'm not talking about him right now) both read... problematic in my head, but my perspective is changing. It's primarily because of a wifom thing: With the occasional poking at each other, it seems to me that Slam, and Max, and Anpu, are rather easily agreeing on a lot of thnigs. 10 minutes ago I was preparing to formulate in writing my case for both of them being scum (with Max' claim of bus driver obviously being very bold and him pulling it off fairly well with his professed love of the role; by faking busses he's both introducing a lot of chaos, and it gives him the chance to act genuine). But: would scum be openly working together so closely? My spidey sense says no.

Dancer
May 23, 2011


And it's extremely tempting to agree with the case Slam just made re: Anpu breadcrumbing.

That being said, imagine Anpu is faking that. Today we lynch beet, he turns out town. Tomorrow we're like "hey Anpu why you imply he was scum?" and Anpu's like "no I would never, you guys saw something that wasn't there".

Actually, this is a very good question for Slam, and potentially others who are voting beet for the same reason. Imagine beet flips town, and you look back at Anpu's "crumbs". What do you think now?

Dancer
May 23, 2011


Mafia is hard... ##unvote in any case while I'm still reading and pondering. I still don't read beet as scum tho...

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Time to vote because I’m heading home ##vote beet

Anpu
Jun 26, 2018

I have opened your two eyes. I have opened your mouth with the instruments of Anpu...

Max posted:

Time to vote because I’m heading home ##vote beet

Max who do you think I can Trust?

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


nobody else vote beet please. i think he deserves a chance to post.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Anpu hasn’t breadcrumbed a cop claim.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Anpu posted:

Max who do you think I can Trust?

You’re gonna have to figure that out yourself my man.

Dancer
May 23, 2011


Was that a response to me Max? Because I didn't say that.

Dancer
May 23, 2011


Because for what it's worth, I do think I see breadcrumbs in Anpu's posting (not necessarily cop). This is when I first saw it as a possibility:

Anpu posted:

That is indeed weird. And thank you for coming forward with that information, I think I would have suspected AA of being busdriven otherwise. Thanks to you we can see this situation more clearly.

"see clearly" suggests an observation thing

That being said, this could also very well be a ploy to both protect from getting lynched, and attract healing...

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hambeet
Sep 13, 2002



I'd like people to explain, particularly those who are helping create a narrative for anpu about this night result. If anpu had a result on me, it took him quite some time to come around to vote me after the day started.

The first response to that is "he wanted to be circumspect about having a PR" well he has done a terrible job of that because you're all discussing it. This just doesn't muster up to Occam's razor at all, here's what Occam's razor suggests about the whole thing:

Anpu just doesn't want to be day 2's focus after yesterday, so they have pushed yesterday's next best target, me, using whatever slim (yet terrible) justifications they could find.

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