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  • Locked thread
Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


I will be around for deadline tonight

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Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


Also just to throw this out, flerps recent posting read as genuine and I am gonna firmly put him in the lean town category

As of right now I think we should vote:

Beet or Anpu (prefer beet in this circumstance)
Dancer
Maybe TNL

I feel less confident about:
Mona
IP
Slam

I feel good about
Flerp
bminus

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


Also while rereading I just caught this interaction

IcePhoenix posted:

I don't know if that's good or bad.


I have a theory on it as well and have been considering making a bunch of posts specifically to test if I'm right or not lol

Moatillata posted:

I would like to hear this theory

IcePhoenix posted:

I'm not going to possibly out a townie role on d2

IP what was your theory? Just curious

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


I haven't even considered Dancer, sort of forgot he was in the game. Also moat, fwiw I feel reasonably confident that mona and slamburger are town. I'm also getting towny vibes from icephoenix now.

PArt of me thinks that we need to settle the anpu/beet fiasco. But I'm definitely gonna take a closer look at dancer now.

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


b-minus1 posted:

I haven't even considered Dancer, sort of forgot he was in the game. Also moat, fwiw I feel reasonably confident that mona and slamburger are town. I'm also getting towny vibes from icephoenix now.

PArt of me thinks that we need to settle the anpu/beet fiasco. But I'm definitely gonna take a closer look at dancer now.

I kinda go back and forth I would really like a scum flip so I can feel more confident

Slam and Mona are more :tinfoil: because I know they both can play good scum games especially slam.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida



Moatillata posted:

Also while rereading I just caught this interaction




IP what was your theory? Just curious

Soda outright said it earlier, Lie Detector

I just got home from a work event, gonna eat and then do some reading

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida



IcePhoenix posted:

Soda outright said it earlier, Lie Detector

I just got home from a work event, gonna eat and then do some reading

reading of the thread, not, like, something unrelated to the game

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


IcePhoenix posted:

Soda outright said it earlier, Lie Detector

I just got home from a work event, gonna eat and then do some reading

Ah gotcha I missed it

Anpu
Jun 26, 2018

I have opened your two eyes. I have opened your mouth with the instruments of Anpu...

b-minus1 posted:

I haven't even considered Dancer, sort of forgot he was in the game. Also moat, fwiw I feel reasonably confident that mona and slamburger are town. I'm also getting towny vibes from icephoenix now.

PArt of me thinks that we need to settle the anpu/beet fiasco. But I'm definitely gonna take a closer look at dancer now.

I actually agree with this. I think the vote if it’s not Beetphyxious it should be me.

Can you not imagine the pandemonium and chaos if I was the victim of the jailer night kill and no one knew whether I was town or scum? It would literally ruin the game.

I urge everyone to vote Beetphyxious so that we can at least lynch a scum, but if there is chaos and confusion then I would not mind being lynched.

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


How do we know the night kills were performed by a jailer? Did I miss something?

flerp
Feb 25, 2014

I DON'T ALWAYS
HERDY DUR MUR FLERP FLERPITY
FLOOPIN
BUT WHEN I DO
I YER DER FLERPITY
THURN DER DERMIN
BORK! BORK! BORK!







he's mixing up jailor and janitor

Anpu
Jun 26, 2018

I have opened your two eyes. I have opened your mouth with the instruments of Anpu...

flerp posted:

he's mixing up jailor and janitor

Oh yes I am. Thank you.

Result stays the same.

flerp
Feb 25, 2014

I DON'T ALWAYS
HERDY DUR MUR FLERP FLERPITY
FLOOPIN
BUT WHEN I DO
I YER DER FLERPITY
THURN DER DERMIN
BORK! BORK! BORK!







there's no need to set up a "its me or him" situation, because there are other people in this game who can be scum. i still havent been convinced of beet's scumminess, and i feel like anpu's nonsense is actually a townie thing. i dont want to lynch either of them today, as frustrated as this game has been. likewise, beet and anpu both actually post and id rather not have this game become filled with lurkers.

i genuinely believe IP is scum, and i like bits of moat's case on dancer, but i dont feel super confident on dancer (also 2 be frank when i threw out dancer's name, i had named him because of a false memory of his post history being really weak, but when i reread it, i was surprised by how actually decent it was, despite its low post count). dancer has actually engaged with this game a lot more than IP has, despite IP having more posts than dancer, and to quote anpu, i believe dancer has "consistently acted truthfully and brazenly" because he seems to be thinking about posts and trying to figure things out. idk when i compare dancer's post history to IP's post history, i see dancer who seems to be putting in some amount of effort, like explaining his votes and looking like they do want to find scum, and IP, who still hasnt explained why he thinks beet is scum, and acts consistently defensive w/o showing any desire to find scum.

from my pov my lurker lynch priority is IP then dancer. im gonna look thru TNL's posts in a sec and ill give my definitive Lurker Lunch List™

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida



Moatillata posted:

I kinda go back and forth I would really like a scum flip so I can feel more confident

Slam and Mona are more :tinfoil: because I know they both can play good scum games especially slam.

I actually want to talk about Mona so I'm glad you said this since b- feeling good about him gave me some pause.

This post specifically is what pinged me. I've cut some bits from before this point out since he touched multiple things, though the body that I've left in is completely unchanged, and bolded a couple things for emphasis

Monathin posted:


everyone who is concerned about PRs should be thinking about this. The flavor is that we're scum and the coppers are town. It would not be unlike an Eccogame for the only investigative role to be an Insane Cop who gets innocent/town results on scum (because they're the cops) and scum reads on town (because we're a bunch of vice-addicted bastards)

This plus Anpu's self-assuredness about his own role and how much it's a help to Town has me extremely frustrated because it's not a 100% lock.

If you put a gun to my head right this minute, I guess I'd admit that Anpu might actually be town but I think b- is obviously buddying up to Anpu in a way I don't find townie at all, especially with their almost beat-for-beat reiterance of Anpu's own case (which was not good, but I could in fact see it as a poor smokescreen for having results on someone) makes me feel like Anpu might be Insane Cop with a scum result on beet and thinking that's a lock, while b- is scum encouraging the misdunk.

Either way, this entire setup of b- and Anpu is setting off alarm bells in one way or another that's been driving me up the wall for half the drat day.

The first part is the same thing that pinged me about an earlier TNL post (who we don't particularly have enough content from for me to work off of outside it). By itself I can see it as a mistake, but then literally the next line he starts contradicting it. I also hate bringing up the Insane Cop possibility so early. Trying to put doubt into an investigator's mind while we're scumhunting only serves to spread confusion and muddy information, especially with a claimed bus driver on D2.


As an aside, I think it's interesting that I'm higher on "lurker lunch" lists than TNL and Dancer when I have more than twice their postcount. At least I'm still actively engaging with the game.

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


I'm not sure what to think.

- We don't know if there is a sk.
- If there is a sk, we don't know if they've killed scum.

Here's what we know
- Anpu wants beet dead because he says beet is scum.
- Beet wants Anpu dead


Both scum and sk obviously want to eliminate all lethal threats. So why are Beet and Anpu are still alive? Is it possible that neither are scum/sk?

If scum Anpu thought Beet was sk, he would obviously call Beet scum (which he started doing on d2) and try to get him lynched. But we didn't lynch Beet on d2. So if Anpu is scum, why wouldn't he kill Beet n2? I think the same question can be applied if Anpu was sk AND thought Beet was a member of the scum team.

On the flip side, if Beet actually was sk (or scum), why didn't he kill Anpu n2? MAybe he had info that Anpu was town?

not really sure what to think right now, or if any of this makes sense. help me understand

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida



I think Max's claim of townie bus driver may have helped protect anpu, either through him actually being one and redirecting a kill or scum just avoiding Anpu entirely out of fear of hitting one of their own.

Slamburger
Jun 27, 2008



My top overall scum pick is still Moat.

Of the lurkers, my top pick is TNL. I'm also at the point where given my feelings about Moat, if he's pushing Dancer than I'm less inclined to follow that advice. But all the lurkers seem scummy to me and you won't have an argument from me to lynch any of them today although I feel like its the easy way out.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011


IcePhoenix posted:

I actually want to talk about Mona so I'm glad you said this since b- feeling good about him gave me some pause.

This post specifically is what pinged me. I've cut some bits from before this point out since he touched multiple things, though the body that I've left in is completely unchanged, and bolded a couple things for emphasis


The first part is the same thing that pinged me about an earlier TNL post (who we don't particularly have enough content from for me to work off of outside it). By itself I can see it as a mistake, but then literally the next line he starts contradicting it. I also hate bringing up the Insane Cop possibility so early. Trying to put doubt into an investigator's mind while we're scumhunting only serves to spread confusion and muddy information, especially with a claimed bus driver on D2.


As an aside, I think it's interesting that I'm higher on "lurker lunch" lists than TNL and Dancer when I have more than twice their postcount. At least I'm still actively engaging with the game.

I would not be making the Insane Cop argument if it were not for the fact that this is an Eccogame and Ecco specifically warned us to pay attention to flavor and sane cop was the N0 flip.

Those all read to me like deliberate signposting of a cop in this setup needing to question their sanity.

Were this any game but an eccogame I'd write it off but other people who have played in Eccogames can back up my assumption there as reasonable.

Slamburger
Jun 27, 2008



Also, mechanics speculation: not that it affects anything with regards to scumpicks, but I'm inclined to think the janitor kills are the scum kills simply because of the balance implications: A self-janitoring SK can *really* screw over the town if he/she is killing scum and the town doesn't know it.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011


Slamburger posted:

Also, mechanics speculation: not that it affects anything with regards to scumpicks, but I'm inclined to think the janitor kills are the scum kills simply because of the balance implications: A self-janitoring SK can *really* screw over the town if he/she is killing scum and the town doesn't know it.

Why would this be the case? We know that the "frozen in place" flavor is the cop NK.

Slamburger
Jun 27, 2008



Monathin posted:

Why would this be the case? We know that the "frozen in place" flavor is the cop NK.

How do we know this? I know the flavor introduction mentions someone getting frozen but why couldn't that be the SK? What about that means it has to be the cops?

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


Slamburger posted:

How do we know this? I know the flavor introduction mentions someone getting frozen but why couldn't that be the SK? What about that means it has to be the cops?

Echoing this when was it ever said definitively which was which

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


Also I don't think the cop sanity thing is unreasonable having played many ecco games myself

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida



EccoRaven posted:

Oh no! The mafia gambling ring has been secretly infiltrated by the coppers! Time to roll up your sleeves and turn these pigs into bacon.

:s: Tao Jones, Julia Parmenos, Boss (mafia-aligned sane cop), has been magickally frozen in time night 0. :s:

Not definitive but pretty close IMO

I see your point about the insane cop but I still do not like it!

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002



Moatillata posted:

Okay, of all the lurkers I feel like dancer may be the most likely to be scum

I just did a reread and suggest anyone else interested do likewise it really is quite short.


See this is a joke vote (which he immediately unvotes) but he takes a lot of time to poo poo all over his mafia abilities. He does this several times early on talking about how bad he is at mafia; even going so far as to self vote


He then cases bminus:


And throws shade at AA and IP:



BUT THEN NEVER VOTES ANYONE. It isn't until I call him out on it that he changes it


Which shows he is around and monitoring the thread and keeping his vote there on purpose.

He then cases bminus again, waffles about anpu and slam and settles in with a vote on anpu and then ghosts the thread

He is even CAUGHT by Max at deadline that day (of the nl) watching thread again and is called out and never comes back.

His last post is one from the wrong game and he hasn't been back since.

If we can't resolve the beet/anpu thing today I think dancer is a good choice for lynch.

look i don't like dancer lurking, seemingly being around at deadline and not voting. IF i continue my line of thought on IP being scum (from my post last (irl) night) does that implicate dancer as to why they didn't vote? they didn't want to bus their scum bro?

okay thinking out loud now. if IP was town, were scum all in on the lynch already? if not, why did they not jump across and hammer? as the numbers dwindled we're getting closer to the danger zone in terms of numbers and yesterday as a no lynch is actually a worse outcome for scum than town. losing one town might only shorten the game by a day, but if we are guessing the number of scum are around 3 (maybe sk too, idk), losing one scum drags it out for more than 1 day, does it not? so i'm thinking most if not all of the scum were not in on the attempted ip lynch with ip being scum. thoughts?

flerp
Feb 25, 2014

I DON'T ALWAYS
HERDY DUR MUR FLERP FLERPITY
FLOOPIN
BUT WHEN I DO
I YER DER FLERPITY
THURN DER DERMIN
BORK! BORK! BORK!







IcePhoenix posted:

As an aside, I think it's interesting that I'm higher on "lurker lunch" lists than TNL and Dancer when I have more than twice their postcount. At least I'm still actively engaging with the game.

because the posts you do have dont do anything. in my opinion, i find it more damning that you have more posts than them, and yet, your post history has equal or lesser value than their post history. as i feel like i have to keep repeating, you have voted for mmt/beet for 3 days, and yet, the only post where you explain your position on mmt/beet is on d1 with a meta read on mmt. like, i really do feel like i need to quote every one of your posts to really highlight how little youve done, despite having more posts than dancer and TNL like, TNL's post history is bad, and there's really nothing there of value, but i cant do anything with TNL's post history because he looks like he can just be a lurky town just as much as a lurky scum because i got nothing to go off of.

but with you, i see someone who is interested in at least posting, but is unwilling or unable to post why they suspect the person theyve been on for 3 days, spends a lot of their posts defending themselves or trying to figure out their suspicious, or are just posts that frankly dont pertain to scumhunting at all. this is my case, like ive stated. i would like my case to be engaged on as it pertains to you, because it doesnt have anything to do with TNL or dancer or your number of posts. it has everything to do with the content of your posts.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002



Moatillata posted:

Also just to throw this out, flerps recent posting read as genuine and I am gonna firmly put him in the lean town category

As of right now I think we should vote:

Beet or Anpu (prefer beet in this circumstance)
Dancer
Maybe TNL

I feel less confident about :
Mona
IP
Slam

I feel good about
Flerp
bminus

cool, do you prefer me more because of anything more than meta though? or is it still just that?

flerp
Feb 25, 2014

I DON'T ALWAYS
HERDY DUR MUR FLERP FLERPITY
FLOOPIN
BUT WHEN I DO
I YER DER FLERPITY
THURN DER DERMIN
BORK! BORK! BORK!







can somebody please tell me that my case on IP isnt pure nonsense? like, does IP actually have a really good post history and im just blinded by some willful ignornance? because rn i feel like im screaming into a void

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002



Anpu posted:

I actually agree with this. I think the vote if it’s not Beetphyxious it should be me.

Can you not imagine the pandemonium and chaos if I was the victim of the jailer night kill and no one knew whether I was town or scum? It would literally ruin the game.

I urge everyone to vote Beetphyxious so that we can at least lynch a scum, but if there is chaos and confusion then I would not mind being lynched.

this reeks of desperation and trying to push an ultimatum.

the only derailing of the thread is because you've been singularly unwilling to look at anyone else and that's been to the detriment of town. it is completely indefensible as i've pointed out there are more than one scum in the game. if you can't succeed in pushing a lynch on me why are you ignoring them the other scum? how does that benefit town apnu?

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002



flerp posted:

there's no need to set up a "its me or him" situation, because there are other people in this game who can be scum. i still havent been convinced of beet's scumminess, and i feel like anpu's nonsense is actually a townie thing. i dont want to lynch either of them today, as frustrated as this game has been. likewise, beet and anpu both actually post and id rather not have this game become filled with lurkers.

i genuinely believe IP is scum, and i like bits of moat's case on dancer, but i dont feel super confident on dancer (also 2 be frank when i threw out dancer's name, i had named him because of a false memory of his post history being really weak, but when i reread it, i was surprised by how actually decent it was, despite its low post count). dancer has actually engaged with this game a lot more than IP has, despite IP having more posts than dancer, and to quote anpu, i believe dancer has "consistently acted truthfully and brazenly" because he seems to be thinking about posts and trying to figure things out. idk when i compare dancer's post history to IP's post history, i see dancer who seems to be putting in some amount of effort, like explaining his votes and looking like they do want to find scum, and IP, who still hasnt explained why he thinks beet is scum, and acts consistently defensive w/o showing any desire to find scum.

from my pov my lurker lynch priority is IP then dancer. im gonna look thru TNL's posts in a sec and ill give my definitive Lurker Lunch List™

i also think ip is scum, for reasons outlined earlier and my navel gazing about the lack of hte lynch. so i would vote him if i cannot convince people to vote apnu. i'm not keen on dancer much, but my suspicion of him is light and i feel like i'm chaining too many people together at that point. tnl was originally higher on my list but i think it's 50/50 between them and dancer. anyway, chasing after tnl or dancer just feels like a lurker lynch and for day 3 if that's the best town have we're in trouble.

Slamburger
Jun 27, 2008



flerp posted:

can somebody please tell me that my case on IP isnt pure nonsense? like, does IP actually have a really good post history and im just blinded by some willful ignornance? because rn i feel like im screaming into a void

No his post history is barren, and he's a good lynch for today. The *only* mitigating factor in my mind is his care-free attitude about providing no details on his beet vote, and not claiming etc actually feels like an apathetic town play at this point. I would think scum would at least feel some shame in providing so little especially since they almost got lynched, and try and overcompensate with some made up crap. IP just doesn't seem to care at all.

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


Beetphyxious posted:

look i don't like dancer lurking, seemingly being around at deadline and not voting. IF i continue my line of thought on IP being scum (from my post last (irl) night) does that implicate dancer as to why they didn't vote? they didn't want to bus their scum bro?

okay thinking out loud now. if IP was town, were scum all in on the lynch already? if not, why did they not jump across and hammer? as the numbers dwindled we're getting closer to the danger zone in terms of numbers and yesterday as a no lynch is actually a worse outcome for scum than town. losing one town might only shorten the game by a day, but if we are guessing the number of scum are around 3 (maybe sk too, idk), losing one scum drags it out for more than 1 day, does it not? so i'm thinking most if not all of the scum were not in on the attempted ip lynch with ip being scum. thoughts?

Hmmm, these are all great points. Let's look at the final day 2 votes that resulted in a no-lynch

IcePhoenix (6): Max, Atomic Soda, Monathin, Beetphyxious, flerp, b-minus1
Beetphyxious (3): Anpu, Moatillata, IcePhoenix
Moatillata (1): Slamburger
Anpu (1): Dancer
b-minus1 (0):
The Ninth Layer (0):
Dancer (0):
Monathin (0):

Not Voting (1): The Ninth Layer

Anpu voted Beet for obvious reasons. Icephoenix wasn't gonna vote himself obviously.

I think beet may be on to something. If ICephoenix is scum, then there's likely a scum among anpu, moat, slam, dancer, and tnl. Anpu has soft claimed a role with verifiable results, and I'm operating on good faith that slam is town. That leaves moat, dancer and tnl.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida



My not claiming is the exact opposite of apathy, it was entirely deliberate.

flerp
Feb 25, 2014

I DON'T ALWAYS
HERDY DUR MUR FLERP FLERPITY
FLOOPIN
BUT WHEN I DO
I YER DER FLERPITY
THURN DER DERMIN
BORK! BORK! BORK!







anyways ##vote icephoenix as i believe he is the most likely to be scum

also, deadline is in under 3 hours

Moatillata
Dec 13, 2006

Maintain.


:c: The Current Day 3 Votecount :c:

Beetphyxious (2): Anpu, IcePhoenix
Anpu (1): Monathin, -Monathin, Beetphyxious
Moatillata (0): IcePhoenix, -IcePhoenix

Not Voting (7): b-minus1, Dancer, flerp, Moatillata, Monathin, Slamburger, The Ninth Layer


:h: With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to be executed.
:d: The current deadline is July 19th, 2018 at 11 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 3 hours, 33 minutes from this post.

:]

I really don't get IP or TNL over dancer

I mean the dude was literally lurking and caught during no lynch and has since completely disappeared. That seems p damming to me

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


##vote Dancer

I will be around until deadline.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida



b-minus1 posted:

Hmmm, these are all great points. Let's look at the final day 2 votes that resulted in a no-lynch

IcePhoenix (6): Max, Atomic Soda, Monathin, Beetphyxious, flerp, b-minus1
Beetphyxious (3): Anpu, Moatillata, IcePhoenix
Moatillata (1): Slamburger
Anpu (1): Dancer
b-minus1 (0):
The Ninth Layer (0):
Dancer (0):
Monathin (0):

Not Voting (1): The Ninth Layer

Anpu voted Beet for obvious reasons. Icephoenix wasn't gonna vote himself obviously.

I think beet may be on to something. If ICephoenix is scum, then there's likely a scum among anpu, moat, slam, dancer, and tnl. Anpu has soft claimed a role with verifiable results, and I'm operating on good faith that slam is town. That leaves moat, dancer and tnl.

If you assume (correctly) that I'm townie in this experiment, how many of the votes on me do you think were not townie (scum or sk)?

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002



b-minus1 posted:

I'm not sure what to think.

- We don't know if there is a sk.
- If there is a sk, we don't know if they've killed scum.

Here's what we know
- Anpu wants beet dead because he says beet is scum.
- Beet wants Anpu dead


Both scum and sk obviously want to eliminate all lethal threats. So why are Beet and Anpu are still alive? Is it possible that neither are scum/sk?

If scum Anpu thought Beet was sk, he would obviously call Beet scum (which he started doing on d2) and try to get him lynched. But we didn't lynch Beet on d2. So if Anpu is scum, why wouldn't he kill Beet n2? I think the same question can be applied if Anpu was sk AND thought Beet was a member of the scum team.

On the flip side, if Beet actually was sk (or scum), why didn't he kill Anpu n2? MAybe he had info that Anpu was town?

not really sure what to think right now, or if any of this makes sense. help me understand

okay in this hypothetical either apnu or i (if one were scum) wouldn't want to be so obvious as to target the other? especially when we're quite vocal posters, it's probably too risky.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002



IcePhoenix posted:

If you assume (correctly) that I'm townie in this experiment, how many of the votes on me do you think were not townie (scum or sk)?

heh, what's that thing about apnu says about trying to create chaos, not clarity?

##vote icephoenix

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Monathin
Sep 1, 2011


yeah ok sure

##vote Dancer

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