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esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.




I 100% miss the old lady gimmick

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Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.




Grimey Drawer

I still love everything the Biddies/Toxic Twins do, though. "Wanna race, huh?" Also them air guitaring "Here Comes The Bride" as they go down the aisle.

This season was fantastic. Episode 8 was a work of art and even outside of that, everyone's doing great jobs. Alison Brie is just amazing, Betty Gilpin manages some pretty big character shifts and does hilarious work as Belle, and Kia Stevens- did she do ANY acting before this? Because I don't think most people would even guess that she's the former pro wrestler in the cast. She was good last year but now she's like a veteran.

One little thing I like is that they've nudged the show-within-a-show closer to what G.L.O.W. was really like- the goofy video segments with canned laughter, the matches all doing some sort of gimmick to cover up their lack of training, Bash's narration is kinda like the voiceover stuff in the segments I've seen, etc.

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town


Yeah they definitely made the show-within-a-show as sorta-lame as the actual GLOW was and it's neat.

Only thing that disappointed me about the season was they went with the cliche thing with Marc getting mad about Ruth's video, I was hoping they'd flip the script and have him go "WHO DID THIS? WELL WHOEVER DID IT CAN DIRECT MORE SO I CAN DO MORE COKE!"

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.




precision posted:

Yeah they definitely made the show-within-a-show as sorta-lame as the actual GLOW was and it's neat.

Only thing that disappointed me about the season was they went with the cliche thing with Marc getting mad about Ruth's video, I was hoping they'd flip the script and have him go "WHO DID THIS? WELL WHOEVER DID IT CAN DIRECT MORE SO I CAN DO MORE COKE!"

I loved that. It especially worked well in retrospect: While he's playing big boss man director he wants it to be entirely his own ship, but once he gets more into the show/remembers how it felt to actually care about a project, and more hands on in filming/etc he opens up more to it being a collaboration and loosens the grip.

DrNutt
Apr 12, 2007

Speaker-sama noticed me?



Straight White Shark posted:

To be honest I hope they never really get around to fleshing them out, because that would be less time spent with better characters. It's OK to have some filler in an ensemble cast.

Oh yeah, it's not that bad and I don't think I need them to have a tragic backstory or anything. I just find that it sticks out more than it would on most shows because nearly every other minor character is more fleshed out and three dimensional, and if it were a network comedy the only well developed characters would be Ruth, Debbie, and maybe Sam.

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007

Ernest Meets 2018



cant cook creole bream posted:

I forgot Kate Nash was in this. I liked some of her songs back in the day.

Edit: Have a reminder of the previous decade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH5cga0yUI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqV-embx_tA

My mind...is loving blown.

She's made some really, really good albums.

And looks completely different here. Are we sure about this.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.




It is 100% Kate Nash in the show, yes

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.




Grimey Drawer

What I like is Rhonda is not a particularly good singer. Just like how they cast Kia Stevens as someone new to wrestling, whose in-ring character avoids fighting whenever she can.

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007

Ernest Meets 2018



esperterra posted:

It is 100% Kate Nash in the show, yes

Cool.

Maxwell Lord posted:


This season was fantastic. Episode 8 was a work of art and even outside of that, everyone's doing great jobs. Alison Brie is just amazing, Betty Gilpin manages some pretty big character shifts and does hilarious work as Belle, and Kia Stevens- did she do ANY acting before this? Because I don't think most people would even guess that she's the former pro wrestler in the cast. She was good last year but now she's like a veteran.

This is also mind blowing. Her scenes with her son were basically just my mom, it was uncanny. So natural feeling and authentic.

Psychepath
Apr 30, 2003


esperterra posted:

I loved that. It especially worked well in retrospect: While he's playing big boss man director he wants it to be entirely his own ship, but once he gets more into the show/remembers how it felt to actually care about a project, and more hands on in filming/etc he opens up more to it being a collaboration and loosens the grip.

And it wasn't an accident that after Sam admits that's he's just insecure about his directing and comes around on his own work, the next episode is GLOW off the rails and schlocky as hell, like his movies used to be. It's some of the more understated character development I've seen in a while.

The new girl ended up being one of my favorites on the cast too, which is a real feat when she came in as literally Replacement Bad Character.

Maxwell Lord posted:

Kia Stevens- did she do ANY acting before this? Because I don't think most people would even guess that she's the former pro wrestler in the cast. She was good last year but now she's like a veteran.

Psychepath fucked around with this message at Jul 2, 2018 around 03:49

GobiasIndustries
Dec 14, 2007



Lipstick Apathy

Was enjoying the show through ep 5 but man the end of ep6 and all of 7 took this season to a different level goddamnit, only 3 more episodes, I forgot this is only a half-hour show.

PicklePants
May 8, 2007
Woo!

Man. I loved this season. I was heart broken over Parent's Day ordeal with Earnest and Honey Bang Having to put relaxers in her hair, because producers on her show didn't know what to do with her.

I could have used way more She-Wolf, though.

And Machu Picchu.

They did a great job though. I'm looking forward to next season!

Dr. S.O. Feelgood
Dec 30, 2008


It seems like a lot of people felt the Sam and Ruth sexual tension thing was forced but I didn't really mind it. I can definitely see it coming from Sam anyway, but he is an old pervert so that's not really that surprising. But Ruth also seems like someone who makes obviously bad relationship choices, so it didn't really strike me as that weird. But I also think Marc Maron is kind of sexy, so maybe I'm just crazy.

Bash is one of my favorite characters now. I didn't really notice him that much in the first season, but I really appreciated the character development he got this time around. Justine too.

DrNutt
Apr 12, 2007

Speaker-sama noticed me?



Finished the last three episodes and this might be my favorite show in recent memory. I've never cared so much about every single character in an ensemble like that before, everyone just knocked it out of the park. Even the characters that are supposed to be found kind of annoying are endearing through sheer charisma. It's so loving well done it's unreal and I hope seasons 3 and 4 are already on order.

GobiasIndustries
Dec 14, 2007



Lipstick Apathy

E9
I DID A DRUG!!!!!!

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.




Dr. S.O. Feelgood posted:

It seems like a lot of people felt the Sam and Ruth sexual tension thing was forced but I didn't really mind it. I can definitely see it coming from Sam anyway, but he is an old pervert so that's not really that surprising. But Ruth also seems like someone who makes obviously bad relationship choices, so it didn't really strike me as that weird. But I also think Marc Maron is kind of sexy, so maybe I'm just crazy.

I felt the growing tension in S1, so the complaints seemed crazy to me, too. Maybe it was planned from the go and maybe not, but Brie and Maron's chemistry was more than enough to sell me on it so

Handen
Jun 29, 2003




GOD
I
FUKKKIN
LOVE
THE
LAST
JEDI




I binged 8 episodes last night and just finished the last two. When Bash took that phone call and time slowed down, it slowed down for me too. I was not ready for that.

So like what awards can the cast receive as a Netflix show, and why haven't they already won all of them? Emmys? Or is that a TV only thing?

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.


Netflix shows are qualified for Emmys, yeah. It was pretty under the radar during Season 1.

teamcharlie
Dec 9, 2012


Poor Carmen. She was so sad that Bash went for the pretty British pop star instead of her. I would have much preferred to see Netflix shake up the formula and make the fey rich white boy be really really into loving big girls.

The wrestling's kinda fun and the emotional stuff doesn't really resonate with me, but is anybody else just digging the exploitation movie aura that comes off the scenes with Sam/that Sam directs and the occasionally leery camera? I haven't seen Cimber's stuff so I can't do much more than speculate that there might have been a Butterfly reference somewhere in the Sam-Justine scenes, but I was definitely getting a Fred Olen Ray vibe from the delightful season 2 episode 8, a little bit of Toxic Avenger from that aerobics scene in the first season in episode one, probably loving somebody that Roger Corman worked with for that meat grinder scene in episode 5 of season 2. Assuming there's a season 3, I really want to see some more of that poo poo.

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.


teamcharlie posted:

Poor Carmen. She was so sad that Bash went for the pretty British pop star instead of her. I would have much preferred to see Netflix shake up the formula and make the fey rich white boy be really really into loving big girls.



You got that he's not really into Rhonda, right?

teamcharlie
Dec 9, 2012


Lycus posted:

You got that he's not really into Rhonda, right?

Duh. Rhonda's a beard. There is nothing interesting in a 2018 TV show having a gay man coming to terms with his sexuality, no matter what time period the show is set in, due to there being such a huge glut in the market right now for that. But a handsome, rich white boy just really wanting to gently caress a big girl would be Goddamn fresh.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.




teamcharlie posted:

Poor Carmen. She was so sad that Bash went for the pretty British pop star instead of her. I would have much preferred to see Netflix shake up the formula and make the fey rich white boy be really really into loving big girls.

The wrestling's kinda fun and the emotional stuff doesn't really resonate with me, but is anybody else just digging the exploitation movie aura that comes off the scenes with Sam/that Sam directs and the occasionally leery camera? I haven't seen Cimber's stuff so I can't do much more than speculate that there might have been a Butterfly reference somewhere in the Sam-Justine scenes, but I was definitely getting a Fred Olen Ray vibe from the delightful season 2 episode 8, a little bit of Toxic Avenger from that aerobics scene in the first season in episode one, probably loving somebody that Roger Corman worked with for that meat grinder scene in episode 5 of season 2. Assuming there's a season 3, I really want to see some more of that poo poo.

p sure Carmen was sad/confused because she knows he's a big 'mo tbh

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009

diggle zone


Fun Shoe

esperterra posted:

p sure Carmen was sad/confused because she knows he's a big 'mo tbh

I'm not sure she does, she's pretty naive. She didn't really seem to quite get what was going on at the gay bar.

(Speaking of which, that was a pretty great reveal--they ended the previous scene with Carmen asking "can I come?" and you're expecting a big culture shock for the innocent kid seeing her first gay bar, but then she just sort of rolls with it and Bash is the one looking around in wide-eyed wonder. I really had not expected him to turn out to be so repressed/in denial, and playing bait-and-switch with expectations was a great way to introduce that idea.)

DrNutt
Apr 12, 2007

Speaker-sama noticed me?



Hey ya'll, if Netflix's algorithms haven't already given you the GLOW documentary after watching this show, go ahead and give it a watch. Just be sure to have some tissues on hand in case you get any dust in your eyes.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Rarity posted:

I liked S1 a lot but seven eps deep this is still a big step up from the first.
Really? I thought this season was good, but not nearly as good as the first. The characters were all still good this season but the plot just felt really directionless.

Rarity posted:

the show within the show this is everything
I found that episode mostly tedious. A couple of bits were funny but mostly I just don't care about the show within the show so it was time taken out of the story I'm actually invested in.

cant cook creole bream posted:

But I do feel kinda weird about this show as a whole. I like the feminist plot lines and the strong characters, but I kinda have to admit to myself that I really enjoy seeing those fit women wrestle in elaborate outfits. I do wonder if it feels degrading to the actresses. To be honest, I feel kinda bad about that. They look really great though.
Half the appeal of wrestling is watching really fit people getting physical with each other.

Harlock posted:

I'm about half way through and I just want Ruth to destroy everyone. They're all so lovely to her.
She's not exactly blameless. One thing I think season one did a lot better was keeping more focus on the characters' flaws. They were the kind of people you feel bad for liking. This season you just like them.

Fartington Butts posted:

And Bash gets some very good moments. So is he gay or not?
I assume not. He didn't seem to have any idea that Florian was gay and his internal conflict when he found out seemed to me to be between his homophobia and his lifelong friendship with Florian.

Maxwell Lord posted:

Kia Stevens- did she do ANY acting before this? Because I don't think most people would even guess that she's the former pro wrestler in the cast.
Pro wrestling is acting.

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007

Ernest Meets 2018



Ruth is still cares way too much about what other people think of her, and lets her enthusiasm and hard work ethic be exploited by other people.

Sam came around at the end but people like that will always get the short end of the stick, especially in their working life.

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009

diggle zone


Fun Shoe

Tiggum posted:

She's not exactly blameless. One thing I think season one did a lot better was keeping more focus on the characters' flaws. They were the kind of people you feel bad for liking. This season you just like them.

I can't really agree with this. Sheila is about the only character that really got this treatment and part of that is just getting less spotlight time in favor of other supporting cast.

Tiggum posted:

I assume not. He didn't seem to have any idea that Florian was gay and his internal conflict when he found out seemed to me to be between his homophobia and his lifelong friendship with Florian.

I thought his meltdown was more about AIDS than just sexuality. I can't say for sure if he knew about Florian beforehand but once he went to the gay bar I don't think he had any illusions about Florian being gay, and his initial reaction didn't seem negative. Note also that when he got the phone call from the hospital he is concerned at first until they start talking about details--at which point he immediately figures out exactly what they're alluding to, which is a pretty good sign he knew about Florian considering how vague the hospital was on the phone. He's conflicted because on the one hand he just had his eyes opened to this big gay world he was missing out on, and on the other hand this is the mid-80s and being part of that world means dying horrifically of AIDS.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.




Grimey Drawer

Tiggum posted:


Pro wrestling is acting.

Yeah but it's a kind of acting that doesn't always translate to TV or film acting. It's more theatrical, like being a rock star. I imagine the major challenge is dialing back.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Straight White Shark posted:

I thought his meltdown was more about AIDS than just sexuality. I can't say for sure if he knew about Florian beforehand but once he went to the gay bar I don't think he had any illusions about Florian being gay , and his initial reaction didn't seem negative.
That's definitely when he found out, and yeah, it was probably mostly about AIDS, but I think to him (like a lot of people) that would have been synonymous with homosexuality. But none of that suggests to me that he was gay himself.

Maxwell Lord posted:

Yeah but it's a kind of acting that doesn't always translate to TV or film acting.
Same with live theatre, but people don't tend to go "what a shock, this theatre actor is actually good at film acting!" like they do with wrestlers.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.




Grimey Drawer

Tiggum posted:

That's definitely when he found out, and yeah, it was probably mostly about AIDS, but I think to him (like a lot of people) that would have been synonymous with homosexuality. But none of that suggests to me that he was gay himself.

Same with live theatre, but people don't tend to go "what a shock, this theatre actor is actually good at film acting!" like they do with wrestlers.

Again I think rock stars is a better analogy, especially with wrestlers who don't change personas much. Like Debbie Harry struggled a lot on the set of Videodrome, because all the stuff that served her well in Blondie was actually a detriment to playing a character on film. Your average wrestling persona is very larger than life, and Kong/Kharma/etc. was no exception, so to go from that to Tammé is quite an accomplishment.

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009

diggle zone


Fun Shoe

Tiggum posted:

That's definitely when he found out, and yeah, it was probably mostly about AIDS, but I think to him (like a lot of people) that would have been synonymous with homosexuality. But none of that suggests to me that he was gay himself.

the part where Bash has been played as a gay caricature for the entire run of the show suggests to me that maybe he is supposed to be gay, just in case him looking around in a gay bar like a kid in a candy store right up until he loses his nerve wasn't a big enough hint

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Straight White Shark posted:

Bash has been played as a gay caricature for the entire run of the show
Has he? I guess I'm not familiar with whatever stereotype he's embodying.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.




Straight White Shark posted:

the part where Bash has been played as a gay caricature for the entire run of the show suggests to me that maybe he is supposed to be gay, just in case him looking around in a gay bar like a kid in a candy store right up until he loses his nerve wasn't a big enough hint

Yeah, it's been clear since S1. My vibe from Carmen since S1 has always been a vibe of her knowing without saying, too, and that's part of why they're so close.

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009

diggle zone


Fun Shoe

Tiggum posted:

Has he? I guess I'm not familiar with whatever stereotype he's embodying.

He's a camp-loving, hard-partying clotheshorse with an overbearing mother who loves playing dressup with his closet full of women's costumes, gets excited about putting on glitter eyeshadow and lives with his fabulous "butler" that he's extremely close and possessive of.

Sure, none of that proves anything. But it's pretty clear what they're trying to get across.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.




Straight White Shark posted:

He's a camp-loving, hard-partying clotheshorse with an overbearing mother who loves playing dressup with his closet full of women's costumes, gets excited about putting on glitter eyeshadow and lives with his fabulous "butler" that he's extremely close and possessive of.

Sure, none of that proves anything. But it's pretty clear what they're trying to get across.

S1 laid the crumbs out for you to realize, oh, Bash is probably gay or at least confused. S2 really nailed it home tho esp with the gay bar scene and when he went to the house to talk to his mother. Not to mention all the beefcakes decorating his vanity in his childhood bedroom, which are revealed to us after he's in tears over trying to track down his clearly gay best friend/butler.

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

Straight White Shark posted:

He's a camp-loving, hard-partying clotheshorse with an overbearing mother who loves playing dressup with his closet full of women's costumes, gets excited about putting on glitter eyeshadow and lives with his fabulous "butler" that he's extremely close and possessive of.

Sure, none of that proves anything. But it's pretty clear what they're trying to get across.

That he's a grown man who's wealth, relation to his mother and lack of real hardships prevented him from reaching a mental level beyond childhood fantasies. And that he has to be constantly supervised, so he doesn't do something stupid?

Frankly, I always interpreted him that way. But I guess I wasn't really paying attention to that at all and couldn't even recall that there was a butler in season one. This season all the scenes resolving around some absent guy I didn't remember fell kinda flat for me. To be honest, I didn't care for Bash either. Come to think of it, don't really like any of the men in this show. Glenn was kinda fun.

Randallteal
May 7, 2006

Good night, sweet prince, And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest

When Sam was being lovely to Ruth at the start of the season I figured the writers were trying to squash the Liz Lemon / Jack Donaghey will they-won't they thing before it happened, but not so much.

I'm glad they settled that, but I'm not convinced it won't come up again. I was thinking Justine was trying to set them up by inviting Ruth to the film festival and then pretending to be asleep so it was just them, but maybe she was actually just trying to get them to reconcile as friends.


I thought that was a pretty much perfect follow up to season 1.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.




cant cook creole bream posted:

That he's a grown man who's wealth, relation to his mother and lack of real hardships prevented him from reaching a mental level beyond childhood fantasies. And that he has to be constantly supervised, so he doesn't do something stupid?

Frankly, I always interpreted him that way. But I guess I wasn't really paying attention to that at all and couldn't even recall that there was a butler in season one. This season all the scenes resolving around some absent guy I didn't remember fell kinda flat for me. To be honest, I didn't care for Bash either. Come to think of it, don't really like any of the men in this show. Glenn was kinda fun.

I could see taking his characterization in S1 as that, if not for S1 setting Florian up (in his admittedly very few scenes) as sooooo loving gay, then having Bash fall apart completely when Florian vanishes during S2. His breakdown was more than that of a stunted manchild or someone who really missed their best friend, imo.

Like I said they definitely lay the crumbs in S1 and it could have gone either way, but in S2 they make it super obvious for anyone who was on the fence.

Though tbf as a gay myself, maybe I just picked up on it easier.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



esperterra posted:

Yeah, it's been clear since S1. My vibe from Carmen since S1 has always been a vibe of her knowing without saying, too, and that's part of why they're so close.

I also thought this. Carmen struggles to perform femininity the way she's "supposed" to, and I assumed she saw something similar in Bash.

I'd say Bash's turmoil isn't about just being gay or just HIV in isolation. He's a deeply-closeted rich kid who's obviously gay but really self-loathing about it. Gayness in and of itself is a source of disgust and fear and anxiety for him, but the HIV renders those feelings "pragmatic." He's not bleaching his home to the floorboards just because he's so afraid of HIV, he's doing it symbolically to "clean" this aspect of himself...the disease is just his excuse. Marrying Rhonda comes from the same impulse, as some radical action he hopes will wash away his darker impulses and live "correctly."

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esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.




Xealot posted:

I also thought this. Carmen struggles to perform femininity the way she's "supposed" to, and I assumed she saw something similar in Bash.

I'd say Bash's turmoil isn't about just being gay or just HIV in isolation. He's a deeply-closeted rich kid who's obviously gay but really self-loathing about it. Gayness in and of itself is a source of disgust and fear and anxiety for him, but the HIV renders those feelings "pragmatic." He's not bleaching his home to the floorboards just because he's so afraid of HIV, he's doing it symbolically to "clean" this aspect of himself...the disease is just his excuse. Marrying Rhonda comes from the same impulse, as some radical action he hopes will wash away his darker impulses and live "correctly."

100%

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