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How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

site posted:

I think marvel committing genocide on two different ethnicities on the same day so casually is actually a good distillation of how they view marginalzed groups at the company

What's the second one? I don't think I picked up a lot of Marvel stuff this week, but I'm presuming that the first is the Inhumans?

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How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas
Marie Severin is still around! One of the great colorists and a majorly unsung figure of the early Marvel days! She also designed one of the most Ditko of all non-Ditko characters, the Living Tribunal!

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

Rhyno posted:

Did child labor laws even exist in the 30s?

The Fair Labor Standards Act passed in 1938. Before that (and, well, after that) it was a pretty vicious back and forth on both the state and the federal level. For example the Keatings-Owen Act in 1916 was supposed to discourage exploitive child-labor by curtailing interstate commerce of stuff produced by minors under *especially* nasty conditions (factories, mines, or very long shifts), but it was ruled unconstitutional and struck down within two years. It was a tough world for kids who were negative two.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

Senjuro posted:

And he's still rich going into the new run?

No, he's working at the Daily Bugle again as of the end of the Slott run, and the FCBD preview for Spencer's status quo has him searching for a third room-mate with Randy Robinson so they can afford rent. So they're definitely leaning harder on the "schlubby bachelor" thing than they have in quite a few years.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

Covok posted:



What happened is that Spider-Man continue the company that Doc Ock started. He became rich and try to use that money for philanthropy. However, during Secret Empire, he had to destroy his company to stop Hydra from using his company to track down political enemies for extermination purposes. There was no other choice in the matter.

Then, he went for the long process of selling his company. This made everyone hate him since he put millions of people out of their jobs. He then slept on Mockingbirds couch. When he ran a company, they were dating. But afterwards they kind of broke up and he was just allowed to stay there until he can get his own place. He tried to get back together with Mary Jane, but it didn't go anywhere.

Then Eddie Brock came back and Flash Thompson became Anti-Venom. At the exact same time, Black Cat lost her criminal empire and turned back into a petty thief.

Spider-Man's fake sister came back, and even though they're not actually related they hung out. She got wrapped up in a CIA conspiracy. It turned into a huge thing that ended in Alien Invasion. The important thing was that Jay Jonas Jameson and Spider-Man had an interview to get knowledge out of Jay Jonah Jameson. At the end of the interview, when Spider-Man went too far and made Jonah Cry by pointing out how he was a lonely sad man who destroyed his own life, Spider-Man revealed the secret identity as Peter Parker to comfort him since they were technically related through Aunt May's marriage, even though Jay Jonah Jameson father had died and Aunt May was a widow again. Jay Jonah Jameson then became his partner and help him fight crime by being his ear to the ground.

Then, the Green Goblin merged with Carnage. The Red Goblin, as he came to be known, found out Spider-Man secret identity. He did so by torturing Jameson. Though, to be fair, Jameson didn't intentionally give away the information: he tried to taunt the Red Goblin and accidentally gave away that Gwen Stacy was Spider-Man's girlfriend and then the Red Goblin pieced it together. Spider-Man fought the Red Goblin and eventually won with the help of literally everybody from Anti-Venom to Silk to Miles Morales to Doc Ock. Flash Thompson died in the fight and Peter gave Doc Ock pardon for his crimes because Doc Ock saved Aunt May ( Doc Ock did that because he once almost married Aunt May and actually did like her).

Robbie Robertson made Peter the new tech editor at The Daily Bugle. Peter got an apartment with one of his employees. Their third roommate is secretly Boomerang.



And that's everything that happened since Superior Spider-Man.

FYI for curious readers, this is a great summary but keep in mind that it covers multiple Spidey books, not just Slott's. Even if you didn't like Slott's take, I'd recommend giving Chip Zdarsky's Peter Parker a shot, the plotting is a little broad but the dialogue is sharp and it's legitimately pretty funny. A lot of the stuff about JJJ and Peter's sister is from there.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

Wheat Loaf posted:

Are we far out from it enough yet that homages to the Howard Mackie run are a Spidey deep cut? :v:

Let's finally tie a bow on Senator Ward, The Man Made of Stale Gum.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

Covok posted:

Okay, whenever she was defined. The fact she was defined at some point.

I'd argue that she's never been particularly well-defined except for brief periods where a writer really takes a shine to her. She spent a lot of the first decades of her existence as one of a rotating group of potential Peter Parker love interests, and to be frank if you just read through it all chronologically their wedding really does seem to come out of nowhere. And even after the wedding writers had wildly different takes on her-- how assertive she was, how concerned about her husband's double-life, how neurotic, how selfless, etc.., which led to a lot of plots where she's either just there to be menaced, or there to look mournfully out of the panel consumed with anxiety.


I think MJ is a cool character but for the most part writers-- especially after the marriage-- seemed to view her as a narrative inconvenience, a cheap source of cheesecake and misogynist tropes, or an outright impediment to writing Spider-Man stories. Hence, I think, the multiple attempts to write her or the marriage out even before ODM.

To be fair, I think part of this is just a fact of how the Spider-Man books were set up around the time of the wedding through her first (?) faked death-- you had multiple titles, each with a different thematic or tonal hook (sort of, they got quite blurry and homogenous in the 90s), and each writer had to figure out how to incorporate this huge new shift in Spidey's status quo. Understandly, each landed on a different note, without a strong editorial hand to tie those notes together into a cohesive unit. It was a mess, and unlike someone like Aunt May or Doc Ock, there wasn't as much precedent to draw on in making her character *feel* consistent.

So for example, you suggest giving her own problems to deal with, which is a good suggestion, but in one book her problem would be something soapy and melodramatic like being offered a nude scene in a movie, in another it would be trying to quit smoking in a very heavy-handed 90s way, in another it would be dealing with her kooky younger cousin, who would later get her own interminable eating disorder subplot, and in another it would involve being kidnapped by a maniacal landlord. Again, this isn't a slam on her character, it's a slam on the sorry state of the Spider-Man line at the time, which both compartmentalized its narrative load among too many hands, and had to deal with so many of those hands being bad at their jobs. It's hard to overstate the extent to which early 90s Spider-Man was a complete and utter mess, which is why the nuclear option of the Clone Saga was tolerated for so long-- anything to shake up what felt like a lackluster and sloppy universe, and tie it together a bit.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

Edge & Christian posted:

i'm not trying to be precious about Venom or any other character, the only sustained interest I've had in Venom was during the Rick Remender era Flash Thompson Agent Venom which was absolutely a big departure for the character, but it was also a pretty character-based story about Flash Thompson and dependence and heroism and etc.

This particular type of revamp always seems more interested in WORLDBUILDING (Vietnam Venom! Beowulf! Dead Celestials! A STORY SPANNING MILLENIA!) as opposed to, you know, anything particularly interesting for the characters. This seems kind of like Donny Cates's MO, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I'm mostly shocked by the implication that Marvel didn't already have a Beowulf.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

Edge & Christian posted:



Also DC full on had a Beowulf comic during the DC Explosion/Implosion.

I'm learning a lot today.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas
If Spencer is teasing a big Kraven fight I'm going to be a little sad if it overwrites the really lovely work that's been done with the character recently over in Squirrel Girl.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

X-O posted:

I don’t think many people take into account what goes into that book. Kraven just recently was full on hunt and murder mode in Captain America too. I understand people wanting to have fun with a wacky villain because I love that, but Kraven is an odd choice for that because he’s not really wacky at all and portraying him that way is just basically changing a character for the sake of a joke. Feels kinda cheap to me.

I feel like the most recent arc took it beyond that though and made a pretty interesting effort to reconcile how he's acted throughout SG with his normal M.O. Like, the kra-va is a cute joke and all but this week's issue in particular was legitimately, I think, a pretty thoughtful direction to move his character in that doesn't really require a ton of handwaving.

I'll cop to maybe being lenient here though because I've never super cared about Kraven outside of the Last Hunt, so I'm more willing to accomodate a certain wobbliness in his characterization that I might otherwise not be. For example as I've probably mentioned before, Ryan North's Taskmaster felt really off to me in a way that signalled less "I have my own weird ideas about this character" and more "I didn't bother to learn much about him."

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas
Mark Gruenwald on Captain America is far from perfect but it's also up there for me in terms of iconic and quite long Marvel runs, and it's remarkably strong for a very long time.


Edit: It also occured to me to look it up, and you know what? G. Willow Wilson's Ms. Marvel is currently just about as long as Simonson's Thor so I'd toss that on there as well unless it becomes drastically, drastically worse all of a sudden. Bendis on Daredevil is just about as long too-- his Ultimate Spider-Man was of course longer but I don't know if I'd put it on the same level as the other runs being discussed here.

How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Aug 12, 2018

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

Vulpes Vulpes posted:

New experience for the day: someone on youtube hated my Spider-Geddon book so much they tore it into pieces on mic

Other responses have been pretty good though, and I signed a bunch of books at the local store!

When Captain Anarchy's first name got mentioned I was like, please, please, please let this turn out to be who I think it's going to turn out to be, and I was right. Thanks for giving a moment in the sun to one of my favorite under- and misused Gruenwald creations.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

Sentinel Red posted:

Who could forget such WCA classics like “raped by a ghost cowboy” and “woman loses everything and becomes a vessel for primordial black goo trying to get an in on mutants”?

There’s a reason why no one gave a toss about The Avengers pre-2000, the books were nearly always bad. Hell, Alpha Flight often looked good in comparison.

The Avengers had a bunch of memorable and interesting runs in the 20th century. Roger Stern should go without saying, and Christopher Priest and Walt Simonson both had fun but sadly truncated tenures later in the 80s. The only "bad" 80s run I can think of ( mean, just Avengers Avengers, WCA was always pretty bad in my opinion) was John Byrne's, who also wrote the only good Alpha Flight run (well, depending on how much you like Steven Seagle I guess-- I'd also say that the Hudson/Calimee run is, while incoherent nonsense, not like anything else being published at the time and worth a quarter if you see it around). There was also some pretty mediocre Jim Shooter stuff but that was pre-Alpha Flight. On either side of the 80s you have plenty of Thomas/Englehart which, while never my cup of tea, was at least consistently at a pretty high level of craftsmanship, and then years of Bob Harras which honestly has aged better than a lot of other Marvel titles of that period. And then of course Busiek comes in in 1998, doing a more sophisticated take on Thomas/Englehart style manic worldbuilding and which as far as I know is almost universally considered a welcome corrective and a lot of fun. a high watermark of the late 90s.

I'd say the windows in which Alpha Flight could have realistically been considered a better comic than The Avengers is actually pretty narrow, really only up for debate when Stern was on The Avengers and Byrne was on Alpha Flight. And in that case, both were exceptionally well done superhero comics either way.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas
For whatever reason, WCA became a title where writers with already problematic views on gender seemingly felt free to go full-tilt maniac. See also the infamous Mockingbird rape plotline and a lot of bad Tigra ideas. It's a modern miracle that Avengers #200 took place on the coast that it did.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas
I caught up on the last few issues of Runaways.

Generally I feel like a lot of writers for superhero comics fall into one of two camps: prioritizing continuity or prioritizing novelty. Both are fine in their way-- I usually prefer the latter. That being said, I've been reading comics a long time, long enough to feel a little itch sometimes when a writer plays fast and loose with continuity, because sometimes, a lot of the time, its just empty baggage, you know, but at other times it feels like a too-casual disregard of another writers' work. So like-- gimme The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl over Avengers Forever any day, but I can still sigh a little at Ryan North's Taskmaster, or, as I did this week, G. Willow Wilson's Shocker. A new creative team is, I think, increasingly framed as a fresh start, which is for the most part absolutely fine.

There's a ton to like about Rowells' Runaways-- a ton of really important things that I'm not going to talk about, because I just want to acknowledge how consistently happy I am with her efforts to not only acknowledge the little back-waters and eddies of continuity but to make them matter and give them emotional resonance that they might not have even had in their initial stories. I hated how Tom King wrote Victor La Mancha in Vision, but Rowell does a lot with it, and makes what I felt like a lazily cynical turn in his character into a really moving, slow-simmering emotional beat. Similarly there was absolutely zero obligation for her to ever acknowledge that he used to be on a short-lived team with a Doom Bot, but she does, and she gets wonderful mileage out of it. When the comic went a year without mentioning Joss Whedon's dud of a character Klara I assumed, with sympathy, that she'd just decided to sweep her under the rug, but then, tucked away into a backup, she's dealt with in a humane and nuanced way.

And I think she's taking such a painstaking approach to honoring continuity, warts and all, because the emotional core of the book is in a lot of ways Gert, who went away as a teen in a group of teens, and now is back to find out that their lives went on without her, and since this is a superhero comic book, their lives are continuity, and that that continuity is messy, unwieldy, and weird, is the point. It does what I didn't think was possible, which was to catch BKV's lightning in a bottle again, while writing a comic that's radically different from his run. I spent many years kind of bummed out about the Runaways, who all seemed so hollow and pointless as a group after his run wrapped up, especially as a group, but she's totally killing it, in part because that hollowness and pointlessness is woven into the book's structure-- it's about a group of people forced into looking back at their lives and asking "wait, how did we get here."

It's unbelievable to me that this is Rowell's first work in comics-- it's so sharp and self-assured, and doesn't do the first-time comics writer thing of writing over the artist (like, imo, Coates did in the first arc or two of Black Panther). It's an understated marvel and I hope she hangs around in the medium for a long time to come.

How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Aug 29, 2018

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

Skwirl posted:

Are they bringing him back?

He's been back, he's a main character in the book.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

Wheat Loaf posted:

I've only read the first half of his New Warriors run (because Marvel only ever did a vol. 1 omnibus :() but I really enjoyed it as well. I'd like to try and follow up the back half that run sometime.

It can seem a bit over-plotted at times but I think he's very good at coming up with overarching storylines which don't detract from the consistency of individual issues. I think he's a lot like Claremont in that regard.

This is true, and I think his New Warriors starts to sag a bit later on when he starts feeling obligated to bring his ominous dangling subplots home to roost. I'll always ride and die for the first Busiek chunk of Thunderbolts but you're right that Nicieza's entire run is a lot of fun as well. I think that by the end the stakes get a little out of hand compared to the relatively grounded premise ("relatively") of the original series but it was still a super entertaining ride.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas
Maybe web-fluid tastes like butter. Maybe it's dairy-based.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

Covok posted:

You know, I had this thought while having lunch. Imagine if they did a new Ultimate Universe but they used it as a chance to reimagine their characters without them being strapped to certain preconceived notions like Captain America having to be a CIS straight white man. Like, give it a chance to actually explore new ideas using reimagined classic characters while still having the originals in their own Universe running alongside them. Because the original Ultimate Universe really didn't do that until Miles Morales and even then they only did it once.

Like, imagine that the announcement for "All New, All Different" Marvel, but that being an announcement for of a new line of comics in a new universe. Not only would this have meant that the classic characters would still be around, but it also means that you don't do those new characters on a timer. To explain the latter, you know that eventually Tony's coming back, you know that eventually Thor is coming back, Etc. But if it's it's own universe, that doesn't have to be the case.

They kind of did this in Spider-Gwen by having Captain America being a black woman. But, those characters are simply not the focus of the book so you don't really get to explore it too much. If it was its own Universe, they can really do a lot with these premises.

I would've read spin-offs of the Spider-Gwen universe because even if the title itself sometimes felt a little directionles I thought it was setting up a pretty interesting little world, with honestly more promising hooks than a lot of early Ultimate stuff. I don't even think it would have to be a very big line, you could have Hulk or the Fantastic Four or whatever as supporting characters without necessarily losing out on priceless comics content.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

X-O posted:



Pretty dope lineup.

I'm still not sold on Cates' schtick and am not very fond of wacky Ghost Rider, so I'm a little biased, but this line-up ticks off a lot of boxes that usually bore me. A) It's huge. B) It's overwhelmingly male. C) It's a lot of characters with nebulously overwhelming power. D) It's a lot of characters who tend towards grim-faced stoic soliloquizing. E) If we only count humans/Earth-people and there's not a big surprise under the Darkhawk helmet, is it all-white? F) Personally I have never cared about Silver Surfer, Gladiator, or any Nova except Sam, and I think both Adam Warlock and Beta Ray Bill are deathly boring under anybody but Starlin and Simonson respectively. Ditto I think the Darkhawks, plural, work as an antagonistic force in Cosmic Marvel but no Darkhawk as a single character in a protagonist role has ever been anything but a wet wheeze escaping from a rubber bladder labelled "1991" to me.

Granted the "classic" post-Annihilation Guardians team, especially in the wake of the movie, has some of these same problems, but I liked the ramshackle, dysfunctional vibe that went along with it that seems like less of a seamless fit with this group. I liked the anarchic, almost screwball energy of Gerry Duggan's run, which made the universe feel truly alien and bizarre in a fun and unpredictable way, this seems like just a bunch of buff people and Groot being mighty near a galaxy.

Maybe this is just my way of sulking and muttering "where's Cosmo." In full disclosure my dream team for a GotG book at this point is PAD and ChrisCross with the Captain Marvel reunion tour nobody asked for, so feel free to dismiss this post as the depraved grunting of a nostalgia-poisoned space perv.

How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Oct 12, 2018

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

pubic works project posted:

Hey I understand. It's not for everyone. I just love cosmic Marvel so this gets me excited. I especially love Richard Rider. This book might not work and I'm not a huge fan of Cosmic Ghost Rider. I feel like he's about to be the new Deadpool shoved down all our throats. But if this book jumpstarts cosmic stuff like Annihilation, then I'll be content.

I love DnA's Nova and Guardians. I don't like the movie roster at all...especially when it comes with wacky stuff. But I did enjoy them when they were joined with Bug, Mantis, Warlock, etc.

This roster definitely needs Cosmo and Mantis though.

I liked most of DnA's Guardians stuff but I felt-- and I'm realizing now what the Cates team is largely, perhaps a callback to-- like a lot of momentum and frisson was lost during the Annihilators stuff. I'll co-sign desperately wanting Bug and/or Mantis back though. Whatever happened to Drax's sidekick Cami? Did she just vanish after the Avengers Arena poo poo? I'd also be interested to see if a more versatile writer could successfully give a personality to the Nick Spencer-created Quasar. And while I'm just wishing, if Al Ewing isn't using her surely nobody has dibs on Monica Rambeau, who has not to my knowledge ever had a shot on a real space-faring team.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas
Lmao, why did he even bother creating her if she was going to be introduced, shuffled off to the sidelines, and then almost immediately blown up? Presumably nobody in editorial was clamoring for her death one way or the other.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

TwoPair posted:

Well she was both created and killed by Nick Spencer, and opinions on him are... awkward, to say the least, but presumably he had her death in mind from the moment she started.

Right, she came about in the aftermath of his stupid Brainwash Village crossover, muddled around in the pages of Captain America as it built up to Secret Empire and didn't really appear anywhere else, as far as I know. I think the comparison to some of Hickman's weird high-concept characters is apt-- she made a nice reveal but I feel like Spencer hadn't considered how to make narrative space for somebody that powerful in a fairly low-power intrigue-type book, in the same way that I feel Hickman introduced these very powerful new characters whose abilities and backgrounds almost demanded pushing the Marvel Universe in a more speculative direction, but backed off when he realized he couldn't or didn't care to do that.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

cant cook creole bream posted:

Has there ever been a story about a super genius trailer park white trash? I understand why those two concepts tend to be mutually exclusive, but that duality could be fun before it overstays it's welcome.

"What if a poor person was smart" is pretty tasteless if taken as a gimmick or "a fun duality" rather than a chance to really examine issues of class and education and ideology and I don't know how many working comics writers I would trust to do it well and not in a tacky way. I know in some continuities Lex Luthor grew up in a pretty impoverished and dysfunctional rural home but I have no idea if that's canon anymore. I don't think there's been any real push to write Paige Guthrie as a super genius but in Gen X she was written as really really bright but also very insecure about her upbringing. I can't really think of others because a lot of the comics characters who do come from working class backgrounds are still located in NYC or some other metropolitan area and so they fill a different narrative niche.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

cant cook creole bream posted:

Come on now. There's a certain difference between just being poor and growing up in a remote hellhole stuck in the thirties. You're implying that I wouldn't believe poor people could be smart, or that all poor people grow up in such a way.

The duality I was talking about is less about being poor but more about building state of the art technology while having an ideology from a century ago.

I realize now that I made my point really unclear and I'm sorry about it. While it's an insulting term for the poor in general, when I was talking about "trailer park white trash" it wasn't actually about the living situation, but the attitude. Not every person who lives in a trailer is a redneck with a dozen rifles and as many Gadson flags, who thinks the years 2008 to 2016 have to be erased from history. That's not the sort of person I'd consider a high level genius.
My apologies.

No problem, I should apologize too-- I overreacted and was taking out a broader beef with the way class is dealt with in comics out on your post in a way that wasn't fair. My mom, who I admire a ton, went from if, not a trailer park per se, a very very backwards and culturally conservative rural upbringing to being the first member of her family to go to college (or even want to go to college) and a 40-year career in microbiology, so I'm sort of hypersensitive about this kind of thing. I think superhero comics are historically pretty unsubtle about class, and it's telling that there are so many more heroic billionaire industrialist superheroes than there are working class ones. We've come a long way, unfortunately, from Superman beating up exploitive landlords and corrupt bosses. When characters from less privileged upbringings do come up, I feel like they tend to fall into one a few very broad categories:

1) white urban working class or lower middle class, characters like Steve Rogers or Peter Parker who reflect the NYC-as-melting-pot romance that informed the foundational work of guys like Kirby or Will Eisner.
2) non-white urban working class, which can range from really cringe-worthy ethnic stereotyping to more compelling stuff, the latter much more common from, of course, actual writers of color. For a long time though this all read as really second-hand and offensively broad, like the writers' only knowledge was from blaxploitation movies or The Wire.
3) rural working class as metonymy for the American dream, which can be really maudlin and tacky, or, if treated more explicitly allegorically, ok-- like G.Mo's All-Star Superman or some of the better stories about Cannonball's family.
4) rural working class as one big roaming lynch-mob, which is a common enough archetype that it probably speaks for itself. Incest jokes, one-strap overalls, and Deliverance pastiches abound. This isn't always a disaster-- Alan Moore' Swamp Thing is essentially in many parts a variation on this, the American South as an ontological nightmare space, although much like #2 its easy to mess up if the writer just treats their characters like ideological cardboard cut-outs. Some of the best Ghost Rider stories also dig up to the knuckles into regional pulp and grindhouse tropes frequently coded as working class.

The problem-- or, I'd consider it a problem-- is that none of these approaches are especially well-suited to actually saying something substantial or interesting about politics or culture, because they all just approach class (and race) as big convenient mythemes, short-hands of an Other against which the nominally more culturally normative hero debrides against. #2-4 in particular tend to be almost entirely exoticised, even in the works of very good writers.

I think the kind of character you are proposing would still be tricky, albeit maybe more because of the Big Two's squeamishness in terms of getting too pointed about politics. One of the last big Marvel titles ostensibly tackling contemporary political issues was Nick Spencer's Cap and it almost immediately descended into "both sides" centrist porridge. Ditto, to hop mediums for a minute, Far Cry 5, which could have said something pretty incisive about class and culture in America but chose to oscillate between playing it excruciatingly safe thematically and taking the laziest, broadest potshots in the actual scripting.

I suppose U.S.Agent as he was originally written, while not a genius, is sort of close to what you're describing-- he was deliberately a rural, reactionary counterpart to Steve Rogers' urban progressivism, although what that means in 2018 is obviously fairly different from what it meant in 1986. We also unfortunately don't have Mark Gruenwald or anyone much like Mark Gruenwald anymore, although I'd be really interested to see TNC take on something like this. His read on Nuke, actually, is sort of building up to be sort of a read on the alt-right as supervillain in an interesting way.

There was a very cool China Mieville pitch a few years ago actually that sorts of flips the idea on its head-- kind of a leftist, collectivist Scrap Iron Man built out of urban salvage and jointly operated by a makeshift union of people. I think the idea of a villainous version of this is actually pretty compelling-- like a right-wing militia with its own cobbled-together suit of power armor, jerry-rigged by laid-off factory workers funneling their frustrations and resentment in the wrong direction.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

Edge & Christian posted:

On some level (though it's hard to maintain that sort of status quo) both the initial introductions of Amadeus Cho and Lunella Lafayette involved them being young genius people of color without much/any socioeconomic privilege. I think Amadeus had a solid middle/upper middle class upbringing but also had his parents killed and went on the run when he was in his teens, and Lunella/Moon Girl's initial arcs are literally about how she's stuck in a struggling public school. Of course years down the line they're both friends with billionaires and have unlimited funding for whatever gadgets they're building, which is kind of the struggle of open ended shared universe storytelling.

It was even baked into Riri Williams's origin for all of about three issues before she got invited to Harvard and inherited Tony Stark's patents or whatever.

Yeah, I was going to mention Lunella but I feel like after the initial arc the book isn't really especially interested in being about class, which is fine, it would be weird of me to expect it to. I did appreciate that her gadgets were all made up of random bric-a-brac and that her not having access to high-tech equipment was part of the visual charm of the book, in the same way that I always really liked old Spider-Man bits about him not having infinite resources. I know the "Parker Luck" thing has become kind of a dead horse but I loved this brief gag in the 80s where his costume got soaked in brine during a fight and he couldn't make the time to get it cleaned so he was just running aroun in a washed-out looking pastel costume for a few issues. It always sort of bugged me that Ms. Marvel was supposed to be similarly grounded in economic reality but then her school has all kinds of super science gadgets lying around.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

site posted:

Oh i totally misread what was going on then, i thought it was a bunch of already existing robots who tried a catfishing op and just decided to send everyone they had once literally every stark employee revealed themselves to be single

One way or another, I found myself wondering how the conversation would go when it came out that every Stark employee's new partner was homeless, unemployed, and had no friends or family, unless the robots also had fake homes, and fake jobes, and pretended to all know each other.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas
PAD's run was pretty harrowing but it had some light moments. Rick Jones' bachelor party was a cute little downtime issue.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

Rhyno posted:

Sometime during the PAD/Frank run of Hulk there was a scene where Samson goes off on Bruce for being unwilling to continue therapy and just lays into him hardcore. Bruce is staring in a mirror and sees the Maestro's face (this was just after FI) and smashes the mirror. He then breaks down crying in from of Leonard, begging him not to leave. It was very powerful when I read it back in like 1992 or so. Really hooked me in and made me a Hulk fan.

I really need to reread PAD's run, even if it got sort of saggy towards the end.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

I miss The Americans and Niko Henrichon's art is gorgeous, I'll give it a shot.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas
I know some people have a soft spot for Tom deFalco's run but as far as I'm concerned its excruciatingly boring and irritating.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas
Look, if he didn't have a lot of wisdom, how come he was called Pete Wisdom, huh? It all checks out to me.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

site posted:

It's a loving crime barely anyone reads monstress cuz takeda is easily one of the best artists working today and she's hardly talked about anywhere

I read the first trade-- it was very pretty but I found it so unrelentingly depressing and bleak that I never bothered to catch up, even though the story was intriguing enough on its own terms. This was sort of why I dropped Deadly Class shortly after the first trade too-- I remember getting and reading both of them on the same day through Image's $10 first volume thing and just being bummed out at the beach.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

Edge & Christian posted:

Full list so far:
Who Really Gave the Fantastic Four Their Powers
Who Brought Spider-Man Back After "Spider-Man No More"
Who Found Captain America On Ice Before the Avengers
Who Saved Jean Grey from Dark Phoenix



Edit:

Lobok posted:

The Stonecutters?
Agh, too slow

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas
Exiles didn't click with me either but Black Bolt was excellent and his first issue of Miles Morales was very promising. I don't read a lot of fantasy fiction so my bar might be set too high or too low but I thought his novel Throne of the Crescent Moon was really interesting too, with the same deft balance between world-building and character work that characterized his run on Black Bolt.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas
Yeah my only quibble with Miles Morales is that the art is a little plain and the teenagers all just look like gamey adults. After Sarah Pichelli I got accustomed to a levelof authentic-looking streetwear and more varied bodies so this felt like a big step backwards. But the writing was definitely on point.

Black Bolt however was absolutely too good for this world. I think it was Ahmed's best writing and it was loving gorgeous.

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas
I think that in 2018/2019, if Peter's supposed to be in his mid-late 20s or early 30s, an "everyman" arc shouldn't have to and shouldn't have to want to culminate in marriage and kids. That narrative, while tidy, I think increasingly doesn't speak to the goals and lives of people who are Peter's vague age, especially among people with the contingent elements that his life has-- freelancer (I think still?), weird hours, all-consuming hobby, dependent older relative, living in a very expensive city. I got married at 28, which would have felt extremely late in my parents' day, but among my friends and age-proximate colleagues was pretty early. It's just not as ubiquitous a marker of "growing up," ditto having kids-- among married people my age that I can think of, only three have kids, and those were the only three that ever had any intention of having kids.

I like Peter and MJ together but I'm fine with them not being married. I think on a narrative level it keeps his status quo more flexible and leaves more wiggle room for the flow of incoming writers, and as I said above I don't think that using it as a device to ground him or indicate his maturity is as viable as it perhaps used to be. For someone with his lifestyle and background, superhero or not, being a bachelor with a somewhat provisional financial situation is frankly the most realistic option.

Edit: Without spoiling much, I think the Spider-Verse movie handles this perfectly, albeit with a PP slightly older I felt than the de facto characterization in the comics: I can't imagine dating let alone being married to somebody with his life without going crazy. I don't think expecting a long-term romantic relationship that follows normative rules is fair or even possible in a setting where superheroes are routinely expected to do the things that superheroes do. In my mind Peter and MJ love each other a lot and trust each other more than anyone else in the world but recognize that keeping things somewhat loose is better for both of them.

How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Dec 17, 2018

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas
We'll always have Vandal Savage.

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How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas

site posted:

Actually speaking of spider-girls was whatever series mayday was originally in (spider-woman, spider-girl??) any good? Kinda curious as to whether i should go back and check that out

It has its fans but it really depends on how your tolerance for DeFalco is. Mine is zero but I see what it is that he offers to people who like his schtick.

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