Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«5 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Skex
Feb 22, 2012


Finally got to see this, the pain of being a parent means that unless it's kid friendly I'm not getting to see a movie in the theater otherwise I would have seen this at release. I've been a huge fan or Boots since I first discovered his music listening to Hard Knocks on Pacifica when I was living in the bay area. The Coup is my favorite political bad, Boots is a master story teller so I had high expectations going in that were not disappointed.

I had thought that satire was dead in the age of Trump but Boots proved me wrong. I suspect that a lot of people balk at the absurdity of where the final goes but honestly it was that absurdity and the refusal of the general public and in particular the media in the piece to the big reveal that perfectly captured how I've felt vis a vi politics for the last 2 decades. This constant feeling of "they are obviously and blatantly evil, how the gently caress doesn't everyone see this?" that has been cranked up to 11 in the Trump Age. The various comments in the news about how the idea that Work Free was turning their slaves into a literal genetically engineered slave workforce and the chattering classes talking about the stock market going up and the hot takes sounding way to much like what we see in the media regarding equally obviously evil if less obviously absurd things.

The one thing that didn't surprise me was how political it was, Boots is a straight up revolutionary brother and anyone who bothered to check out his past work should have known exactly what they are getting into (seriously if you haven't checked out his past work do so, I mean this is the guy who had to change an album cover on 9/11 because the original depicted an explosion in the WTC who's album titles include such beauts as "Pick up a bigger weapon" and "Steal this Album") Boots isn't an artist who does political stuff, he's a political activist who uses his art as a vehicle to communicate a message of solidarity and resistance and does it well spinning verses that are lyrical gold and political dynamite that directly contradict the prevailing narrative of the virtues of Capitalism with an intelligence and historical awareness that is far too rare in today's society.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002


Loved this film, there's some great little details, like Cash's poor friends and co-workers not having mobile phones, until they make money, or the billboard that is seen once untouched, then graffitied, then hanging as a piece of art in the bad guy CEO's apartment.

remigious
May 13, 2009

Destruction comes inevitably


Hell Gem

I watched this with no expectations at all and no idea what to expect, and I’m so glad I did. the horse people were revealed just when I started thinking “man, this evil dude really likes horses judging from all of the horse art and poo poo” so that was perfect

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008



Red Pyramid posted:

As for the ending, the last scene might actually be my favorite turn in the movie, and left me feeling weirdly inspired. Like other people have said, it's a lot more common to see safe liberal pablum sold as radical, and although Sorry to Bother You is inarguably bolder than that from the beginning, the place it seemed to be leaving off felt a little bit too cautious. And then we get the post-title card scene and a full on horse-person revolution. Boots isn't a social-democrat, he's a communist, and I think it's pretty clear at the end where he thinks things are heading.
Half of the people I saw this film with (earlier this evening) reckoned he took CEO dude's deal and the ending was a false flag. I think it's left in a way that gives room to that interpretation but also the idea that he's an authentic revolutionary.

I don't know quite what to think of this film. I mean, I loved it and think its powerful but I'm going to be thinking about it for a while.

wyoming
Jun 7, 2010

Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.


Half the people you saw this film with have brain worms.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

The truth is-


remigious posted:

I watched this with no expectations at all and no idea what to expect, and I’m so glad I did. the horse people were revealed just when I started thinking “man, this evil dude really likes horses judging from all of the horse art and poo poo” so that was perfect

My guess was that he had a horse as a child (the horse named Mr Bobo on the powder plate) and he never let go of the horse dying/had a horse obsession. So all his talk about how rational it is and he's completely sane is based off something quite irrational. Felt like Riley was saying something about how the wealthy drive the direction of the world based on weird neuroses/obsessions/fetishes/whatever.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!


Well yeah, people who set out specifically with the desire to get wealthy are inherently sociopathic. They seek money in a capitalist society because it gives them the power to shape the world in their own selfish image. It also turns otherwise good and moral people into sociopaths because you basically have to have money and own property to get by under capitalism. You either make money (and in turn earn even more money for those above you) or you die.

Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

Milkfred E. Moore posted:

My guess was that he had a horse as a child (the horse named Mr Bobo on the powder plate) and he never let go of the horse dying/had a horse obsession. So all his talk about how rational it is and he's completely sane is based off something quite irrational. Felt like Riley was saying something about how the wealthy drive the direction of the world based on weird neuroses/obsessions/fetishes/whatever.

I mean, "This is going to make us a lot of money. See? I'm not crazy." is a punchline in that scene.

Gejimayu
Mar 4, 2005
spaz

wyoming posted:

Half the people you saw this film with have brain worms.

My wife and I actually discussed the possibility of this afterward. Its certainly plausible that, while maybe unintentional, he was sort of tricked/led into fulfilling what Lift wanted. He certainly showed his naivety continually in the film, especially when taking off his black voice at the party. You can see the differences between him and Bleep with the way Bleep doesn't drop his code switching and sits with the white guests, and I think he almost tried to stop Cash at the moment, or motioned a bit during. Even his redacted name is awesome in that context.

All the comparisons between this and Get Out are ridiculous because the racial commentary in Get Out is so hamfisted and shallow, while this is such better satire on things like code switching and share cropping. Hell, capitalism in general. It was weirdly jarring when the "Have a Cola and Smile" line didnt just say the name of a soda brand, but I realized that would have gone against the message. Brilliant movie.

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008



I heard this had a twist, I figured it would center around how he was able to do the white voice, like it would turn out to be an alien parasite living inside of him or something.

got any sevens
Feb 9, 2013

Only the smallest QB can ascend.


The parasite is capitalism

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006



General Dog posted:

I heard this had a twist, I figured it would center around how he was able to do the white voice, like it would turn out to be an alien parasite living inside of him or something.

If you haven't, you should, because that twist is about as good as that.

Gejimayu
Mar 4, 2005
spaz

Yeah, I'd say theres about a 0% chance of anyone predicting the "twist" until the 5 minutes beforehand. It's bonkers, but the writer/director does such a good job leading up to it that I was totally along for the ride.

Also, Forest Whitaker plays the first equisapian. That's... A fact I dont know what to do with.

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008



Young Freud posted:

If you haven't, you should, because that twist is about as good as that.

Yeah I saw it a few weeks ago, and I certainly didn't see it coming. I was a bit disappointed that the "white voice" ended up being kind of an incidental plot point though.

Blast Fantasto
Sep 17, 2007

USAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!


There are basically two film sequences that impacted me more than anything this year

The party, decapitation and aftermath included in Hereditary

And the entire party sequence/ horse person aftermath included in Sorry to Bother You.

Impacted me in totally different ways - but what a great year for party sequences.

SciFiDownBeat
Jun 19, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 22 hours!


Blast Fantasto posted:

There are basically two film sequences that impacted me more than anything this year

The party, decapitation and aftermath included in Hereditary

And the entire party sequence/ horse person aftermath included in Sorry to Bother You.

Impacted me in totally different ways - but what a great year for party sequences.

a greedo

qwewq
Aug 16, 2017


Young Freud posted:

Mr. K. West

7 letters. Checks out.

My co-worker and I are betting on Mr. Simmons, what do you guys think?

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

This neckbearded nerd has incredibly stupid opinions on fantasy firearms.

"Remember, Mastershakeman is literally always wrong."






Arnie hammers interest in getting a giant horse cock absolutely had to be a commentary on how white people are fixated on the idea of black men having bigger dicks.


Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006



mastershakeman posted:



Arnie hammers interest in getting a giant horse cock absolutely had to be a commentary on how white people are fixated on the idea of black men having bigger dicks.




That's definitely how I read it, but you have to also take in how Steve Lift describes Cash's role as the equisapien "Martin Luther King Jr." instead of using another socio-religious leadership figure and that Lift thinks Cash can rap. There's so many layers to that dialogue.

Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

Reading this, I want to pay attention to Lift’s face during those party scenes. I’m considering the idea that Lift doesn’t actually think Cash can rap. Rather, he’s doing this zillionnaire tech bully thing where (a little bit) he’s trying to make the world conform to how he wants it to be, and where (a lotta bit) he’s trying to see if Cash will do as told and play a role, even if he gets humiliated.

Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008



Hand Knit posted:

Reading this, I want to pay attention to Lift’s face during those party scenes. I’m considering the idea that Lift doesn’t actually think Cash can rap. Rather, he’s doing this zillionnaire tech bully thing where (a little bit) he’s trying to make the world conform to how he wants it to be, and where (a lotta bit) he’s trying to see if Cash will do as told and play a role, even if he gets humiliated.

That was what I thought, that Lift and Blank were the only ones who weren't buying Cash's "ability" to rap.

Peacoffee
Feb 11, 2013

"After all, tomorrow is another motorcar!"


To the point where Lift seems annoyed Cassius is mocking them by doing it by the end, like upset that he wasn’t seriously trying but moreso fronting about stereotyping.

Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

Chairman Capone posted:

That was what I thought, that Lift and Blank were the only ones who weren't buying Cash's "ability" to rap.

_______ is probably so annoyed. Like he's so completely humiliated and subservient, yet Cash comes in and is immediately Lift's favourite.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.


Grimey Drawer

Peacoffee posted:

To the point where Lift seems annoyed Cassius is mocking them by doing it by the end, like upset that he wasn’t seriously trying but moreso fronting about stereotyping.

I interpreted it as Lift being intrigued and impressed. Cassius doesn't fulfill the challenge put forth--performing an excellent rap--but still manages persevere and win over the crowd with his charm and energy. Which is why he thinks Cassius is perfect for his plan.

Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

So, do y'all think that _______ buys into Lift's bullshit? I don't think he does — going by the looks we get of him at the party — but I want y'all's opinions.

I think there's a good reading where _______ is very much based around Arendt's rendering of Eichmann. By Arendt, Eichmann wasn't a Nazi true believer. Rather, he was a social climber looking for approval and progress, and someone who to the end of the war was most concerned about confirming social events with the higher-ups. This made Eichmann a kind of ideal Nazi apparatchik — unfazed by the insanity of Nazi ideology he was kept completely in line by self-regard and the possibility of enrichment/social progress. Looking at _______ through this lens seems profitable. To the one end it makes _______ a coherent character in his own right, fits with his 'political' place in the RegalView/WorryFree apparatus, and there's no way Boots hasn't read Eichmann in Jerusalem. Further to that, though, is that it really sets up _______ as Cash's fate if he doesn't smarten up. What Cash is trying to do — just get by and take care of the people he needs to take care of — is what Arendt's Eichmann did. It's what Sal confronts Cash over when the union first forms, and the two big motivations Cash gives us for continuing to go to work are to take care of his uncle and his own getting "fat."

This also fits well, I think, with the full force of the police state being marshalled to let people just keep their heads down and walk to work.

So yeah. There's that.

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


Hand Knit posted:

So, do y'all think that _______ buys into Lift's bullshit? I don't think he does — going by the looks we get of him at the party — but I want y'all's opinions.

I think there's a good reading where _______ is very much based around Arendt's rendering of Eichmann. By Arendt, Eichmann wasn't a Nazi true believer. Rather, he was a social climber looking for approval and progress, and someone who to the end of the war was most concerned about confirming social events with the higher-ups. This made Eichmann a kind of ideal Nazi apparatchik — unfazed by the insanity of Nazi ideology he was kept completely in line by self-regard and the possibility of enrichment/social progress. Looking at _______ through this lens seems profitable. To the one end it makes _______ a coherent character in his own right, fits with his 'political' place in the RegalView/WorryFree apparatus, and there's no way Boots hasn't read Eichmann in Jerusalem. Further to that, though, is that it really sets up _______ as Cash's fate if he doesn't smarten up. What Cash is trying to do — just get by and take care of the people he needs to take care of — is what Arendt's Eichmann did. It's what Sal confronts Cash over when the union first forms, and the two big motivations Cash gives us for continuing to go to work are to take care of his uncle and his own getting "fat."

This also fits well, I think, with the full force of the police state being marshalled to let people just keep their heads down and walk to work.

So yeah. There's that.

I can see that, don't know if it is Eichmann like or just someone who keeps their head down and collects a paycheck. This is something you see quite a lot, people doing monstrous things but because it is company policy no-one feels responsible. See Shell in Nigeria, there is no way corporate does not know what is going on but it keeps happening because no-one feels like they are personally responsible.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006



Hand Knit posted:

So, do y'all think that _______ buys into Lift's bullshit? I don't think he does — going by the looks we get of him at the party — but I want y'all's opinions.

I think there's a good reading where _______ is very much based around Arendt's rendering of Eichmann. By Arendt, Eichmann wasn't a Nazi true believer. Rather, he was a social climber looking for approval and progress, and someone who to the end of the war was most concerned about confirming social events with the higher-ups. This made Eichmann a kind of ideal Nazi apparatchik — unfazed by the insanity of Nazi ideology he was kept completely in line by self-regard and the possibility of enrichment/social progress. Looking at _______ through this lens seems profitable. To the one end it makes _______ a coherent character in his own right, fits with his 'political' place in the RegalView/WorryFree apparatus, and there's no way Boots hasn't read Eichmann in Jerusalem. Further to that, though, is that it really sets up _______ as Cash's fate if he doesn't smarten up. What Cash is trying to do — just get by and take care of the people he needs to take care of — is what Arendt's Eichmann did. It's what Sal confronts Cash over when the union first forms, and the two big motivations Cash gives us for continuing to go to work are to take care of his uncle and his own getting "fat."

This also fits well, I think, with the full force of the police state being marshalled to let people just keep their heads down and walk to work.

So yeah. There's that.

Langston also brings that up, fairly explicitly, when he describes the difference between what they do at RegalView and what the power callers can as not being "apples and oranges", but "apples and the Holocaust".

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«5 »