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Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!


The_Doctor posted:

Does the pole still work?

... in fairness I have never asked. I haven't been there in a few years, though, so someone more local might be better able to answer than myself.

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Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004



The_Doctor posted:

Does the pole still work?

This place is great! When can we move in? You gotta try this pole!

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Alan_Shore posted:

You gotta try this pole!

Name of Ray’s sex tape.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



The_Doctor posted:

Name of Ray’s sex tape.

Cabin In The Woods.

Squashing Machine
Jul 5, 2005
ASK ME WHY NOT HITTING ON THE STARBUCKS BARISTA MAKES YOU A JOYLESS PRIG



One of my favorite differences between GB1 and GB2016 is the treatment of the Ghostbusters' dismissal from their university positions. In the original, the dean is kind of a uptight prick like Walter Peck, but he's completely right to kick their goldbricking, student-pursuing asses out of the school, and calls Venkman out on being a professional con artist. It works comedically because it's obvious they're just loving around and not really qualified to be there, and feeds into their status as a bunch of goofballs. The irony operates on the fact that, in any sane universe, Dean Yeager and Walter Peck would be completely correct and justified in their actions, they just happen to be unlucky enough to live in one where ghosts exist.

In GB2016, Kristen Wiig's character is coded as being a competent academic, so when she meets with Dean Middle Finger over the Youtube video, it's treated as some sort of grand injustice. Why can't this kooky character see how competent and right she is? It completely inverts the structure: everyone surrounding the Ghostbusters is some kind of moron or buffoon, which puts our main four in a positive light but saps the irony out of the film and puts them essentially in the role of the straight man. In GB2016, the universe unjustly punishes the Ghostbusters until they win. In GB1, the universe unjustly punishes everyone else, and that's why it's funny.

Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004



Not only that, but when Venkman is chewed out by the Dean, it's the only time he doesn't have a come back. Just a deadpan "I see."

echoplex
Mar 5, 2008

Stainless Style


sean10mm posted:

It's basically watching an A grade comedy cast wrestle with a C grade script. It's not terrible, but there are long stretches where it seems like the writers forgot to even try to be funny, and the actors are just trying to power through dialogue that's just sort of there. Nothing is scary even on the level of the librarian ghost scene, nothing is really threatening and nothing seems to matter very much. By the end of the movie the heroes have saved the day, but the characters themselves don't seem that happy about it. I wanted to like it but really struggled to maintain interest.

At least that's my hot take.

This is the most reasonably accurate thing I've read on it.

Tonally, the humour was all over the place (a bit like GB2). The "Jaws Mayor" joke stitched me up, but that and the "xxx sr has been dead for 50 years" joke gag feel pulled from a Zucker movie rather than the movie you're actually watching.

Alan_Shore posted:

Not only that, but when Venkman is chewed out by the Dean, it's the only time he doesn't have a come back. Just a deadpan "I see."

Dean Yeager's turn around and smile move is one of the finest bits of physical comedy in cinema.

Squashing Machine
Jul 5, 2005
ASK ME WHY NOT HITTING ON THE STARBUCKS BARISTA MAKES YOU A JOYLESS PRIG



echoplex posted:

Dean Yeager's turn around and smile move is one of the finest bits of physical comedy in cinema.

It completely demonstrates the difference between the movies. It's small, subtle, and 100 times funnier than some Mad TV clown doing the inflate your middle finger like a balloon gag.

Alan_Shore posted:

Not only that, but when Venkman is chewed out by the Dean, it's the only time he doesn't have a come back. Just a deadpan "I see."

Yeah, it's great. He just completely cops to it. No indignation about how misunderstood and competent he is. Just recognition that his con's run its course.

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

Only dead doggos
follow the stream.



Squashing Machine posted:

In GB2016, the universe unjustly punishes the Ghostbusters until they win. In GB1, the universe unjustly punishes everyone else, and that's why it's funny.

This is a good observation, but I think the GB2016 approach could have been decent if the ending felt like a big win. Beating up your heroes until they triumph over adversity is a classic crowd-pleaser, but the audience really needs to feel like finally winning was a big deal emotionally for the characters.

In GB1 it basically ends with big cheering crowds and I LOVE THIS TOWN while GB2016 ends with them just sitting around a table in a bar with faces on going, "That was pretty good, right?"

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

Only dead doggos
follow the stream.



GB2016's moment of... triumph?

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Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

The stakes just aren't there, a ton of effort went into selling the audience on Gozer as a serious world-ending threat, and the remake has none of that.

Like, what is there in GB '16 for an 8 year old to be scared of? It's just goofy on goofy on goofy with nothing to mix it up.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


echoplex posted:

Dean Yeager's turn around and smile move is one of the finest bits of physical comedy in cinema.

It's really great. GB1 is full of tiny wonderful moments you can miss in 50 viewings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_vHbFQRT3Y

Also, I just found this extended/deleted cut of the scene that I can't recall having ever seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtslDRp4bT8

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003


Yams Fan

Aaaand, now I want to watch Ghostbusters again. Is there more than one Blu-ray, and if so, which one is the best one?

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


The 4K Blu-ray apparently has a really good transfer.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Iron Crowned posted:

Aaaand, now I want to watch Ghostbusters again. Is there more than one Blu-ray, and if so, which one is the best one?

https://www.amazon.com/Ghostbusters...busters+blu+ray

This set is the newest transfer based on a 4k master so it's probably as perfect as the film will ever look. It's cheap now because a UHD version came out recently but the reviews seem to indicate that it's barely an upgrade on the current blu ray just because of how excellent that transfer was.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017



Kinda makes me wonder if the core issue with GB2016 (one of them anyway) is that it's so focused on being A Comedy Movie, they have have comedy plot, comedy stakes, the plot is an excuse for comedy to happen, while as mentioned the original movie doesn't give a poo poo about genre. A big issue with modern filmmaking I think is that it's obsessed with sticking to what's expected of its genre (an already vague, artificial and often unhelpful term) giving movies no room to stretch or explore.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



GB2016 is also a comedy movie that doesn’t really have very many constructed jokes. It’s so improv heavy that there isn’t much in the way of a focused punchline, but rather an unending assault of almost-punchlines. It’s the practice of “one of these has to work, right?” And it doesn’t.

Like my single favorite gag in the original Ghostbusters is when they power on the proton packs in the elevator for the first time. You have the set-up of Ray’s “thermonuclear reactor strapped to our backs” dialogue, and the pay-off is dual layered; Egon and Peter crowding to the back corner, and Ray remaining blissfully ignorant of them doing so. It’s awesome because it’s a character focused bit: Egon is a mad scientist and Peter is a cynic. They actually believe it might blow up. Meanwhile, Ray is the naive believer.

Good comedy is character work expressed through jokes.

Bad comedy is a series of jokes trying to give the impression of an actual character.

Squashing Machine
Jul 5, 2005
ASK ME WHY NOT HITTING ON THE STARBUCKS BARISTA MAKES YOU A JOYLESS PRIG



Ghost Leviathan posted:

Kinda makes me wonder if the core issue with GB2016 (one of them anyway) is that it's so focused on being A Comedy Movie, they have have comedy plot, comedy stakes, the plot is an excuse for comedy to happen, while as mentioned the original movie doesn't give a poo poo about genre. A big issue with modern filmmaking I think is that it's obsessed with sticking to what's expected of its genre (an already vague, artificial and often unhelpful term) giving movies no room to stretch or explore.

I'd say this is a big part of it, or at least Feig misunderstanding where comedy comes from in a movie. The supporting cast in the original is pretty straight-laced, the closest thing to a wacky character is Louis, and he's largely kind of your standard 80's dweeboid. Venkman's ostensible romantic rival is the nasal-spray-using violinist who's coded as being a stuck-up wet blanket type. There's very few people making "joke jokes" outside of Venkman. The lines you remember from Egon are him being socially oblivious and somewhat disconnected from reality. Contrast this with GB2016, where it's like every person in New York just took the intro course at the UCB. Our main four are just constantly making references and quips, and the writing's afraid to make anything even harmlessly at their own expense. All the supporting characters outside of the Game of Thrones guy are just constantly riffing. It's constant noise, and leaves you without that central lens character to attach to.

Fart City posted:

GB2016 is also a comedy movie that doesn’t really have very many constructed jokes. It’s so improv heavy that there isn’t much in the way of a focused punchline, but rather an unending assault of almost-punchlines. It’s the practice of “one of these has to work, right?” And it doesn’t.

Like my single favorite gag in the original Ghostbusters is when they power on the proton packs in the elevator for the first time. You have the set-up of Ray’s “thermonuclear reactor strapped to our backs” dialogue, and the pay-off is dual layered; Egon and Peter crowding to the back corner, and Ray remaining blissfully ignorant of them doing so. It’s awesome because it’s a character focused bit: Egon is a mad scientist and Peter is a cynic. They actually believe it might blow up. Meanwhile, Ray is the naive believer.

Good comedy is character work expressed through jokes.

Bad comedy is a series of jokes trying to give the impression of an actual character.

Put about as well as you can, 100%

Squashing Machine fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Aug 7, 2018

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Squashing Machine posted:

I'd say this is a big part of it, or at least Feig misunderstanding where comedy comes from in a movie. The supporting cast in the original is pretty straight-laced, the closest thing to a wacky character is Louis, and he's largely kind of your standard 80's dweeboid. Venkman's ostensible romantic rival is the nasal-spray-using violinist who's coded as being a stuck-up wet blanket type. There's very few people making "joke jokes" outside of Venkman. The lines you remember from Egon are him being socially oblivious and somewhat disconnected from reality. Contrast this with GB2016, where it's like every person in New York just took the intro course at the UCB. Our main four are just constantly making references and quips, and the writing's afraid to make anything even harmlessly at their own expense. All the supporting characters outside of the Game of Thrones guy are just constantly riffing. It's constant noise, and leaves you without that central lens character to attach to.

Even Louis though, his dialogue is not funny in the way that Feig's comedy is funny, even when it works. It's a deeper kind of funny that depends heavily on Moranis' performance and it's rooted in character, not any traditional set-up/punchline structure.

Think about the genius of this scene and how it's just completely the opposite of the kind of comedy that GB'16 was going for:

Woman at Party : [coming up to Louis during party] Do you have any Excedrin or extra-strength Tylenol?

Louis : [opening cabinet] Gee, I think all I got is acetylsalicylic acid, generic. See, I can get six hundred tablets of that for the same price as three hundred of a name brand. That makes good financial sense, good advice...

[takes platter back into living room]

Louis : Hey, this is real smoked salmon from Nova Scotia, Canada, $24.95 a pound! It only cost me $14.12 after tax, though.

[walks up to a hapless guest, speaking confidentially]

Louis : I'm givin' this whole thing as a promotional expense, that's why I invited clients instead of friends. You havin' a good time, Mark?

[heads across the room, greeting other guests]

Louis : How you doing? Why don't you have some of the brie, it's at room temperature!

[to the Tall Woman]

Louis : You think it's too warm in here for the brie?

Tall Woman at Party : [standing] Louis, I'm going home.

Louis : Aw, don't leave yet. Well, listen, maybe if we start dancing other people will join in!

Tall Woman at Party : [pauses] Okay!

[Louis and the Tall Woman begin disco dancing. Suddenly the doorbell rings]

Louis : Oh, don't move, I just gotta get the door.

[opens door, greeting guests]

Louis : Ted! Annette! I'm glad you could come, how you doin', give me your coats. Everybody, this is Ted and Annette Fleming! Ted has a small carpet cleaning business in receivership; Annette's drawing a salary from a deferred bonus from two years ago! They got fifteen thousand left on the house at eight percent.

Squashing Machine
Jul 5, 2005
ASK ME WHY NOT HITTING ON THE STARBUCKS BARISTA MAKES YOU A JOYLESS PRIG



Basebf555 posted:

Even Louis though, his dialogue is not funny in the way that Feig's comedy is funny, even when it works. It's a deeper kind of funny that depends heavily on Moranis' performance and it's rooted in character, not any traditional set-up/punchline structure.

Think about the genius of this scene and how it's just completely the opposite of the kind of comedy that GB'16 was going for:

Right, there's that difference that Louis isn't aware that what he's saying is supposed to be funny. Everything he says drips with sincerity. He's clueless, but not stupid, if that distinction makes sense. GB2016 is chock-full of stupid people.

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

Because if I tell you, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and shit like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.


Fan of Britches

Fart City posted:

Like my single favorite gag in the original Ghostbusters is when they power on the proton packs in the elevator for the first time. You have the set-up of Ray’s “thermonuclear reactor strapped to our backs” dialogue, and the pay-off is dual layered; Egon and Peter crowding to the back corner, and Ray remaining blissfully ignorant of them doing so. It’s awesome because it’s a character focused bit: Egon is a mad scientist and Peter is a cynic. They actually believe it might blow up. Meanwhile, Ray is the naive believer.

Good comedy is character work expressed through jokes.

The rest of the scene immediately after that is also jam packed with characterization. When they step out of the elevator Ray and Egon are swinging their proton wands around like they're a SWAT team but Peter just ambles out without even turning his pack on, etc etc..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJVgfDnjkko

Note that they also included the step-away-from-the-unlicenced-nuclear-accelerator gag in the equivalent scene in GB2016:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoSzqHlvN6s#t=83s

... but just in case you missed it, they do they stepping-back-from-the-untested-equipment gag again later on, and one of the characters even announces they're doing it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lw7GJh31nM

Squashing Machine
Jul 5, 2005
ASK ME WHY NOT HITTING ON THE STARBUCKS BARISTA MAKES YOU A JOYLESS PRIG



It also contrasts with the "what the hell are you doing?" lady and the three's sort of embarrassed apology. That's funny. You almost killed someone because you're a bunch of overgrown kids and your response is completely inadequate. In GB2016, she would've been screaming and running around and the proton beam would've chased her around the corridor, and the entire time Wiig and McCarthy would be shouting TURN IT OFF!!! WHO TAUGHT YOU HOW TO SHOOT, ALEXANDER HAMILTON????

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003


Yams Fan

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Note that they also included the step-away-from-the-unlicenced-nuclear-accelerator gag in the equivalent scene in GB2016:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoSzqHlvN6s#t=83s

... but just in case you missed it, they do they stepping-back-from-the-untested-equipment gag again later on, and one of the characters even announces they're doing it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lw7GJh31nM

I don't like this

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



God drat, I just remembered the incredibly unfunny wonton soup running gag.

GB2016 is like a junkyard full of roaming stray jokes.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

The awkward stretches of improv that don't really work also end up making the movie feel a lot longer than it is. I checked the clock thinking "are we in the home stretch here yet?" and the movie wasn't even half over.

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

Because if I tell you, you'll tell your friends, your friends are callin' me on the horn all the time, I gotta show up at shopping centers for openings and sign autographs and shit like that and it makes my life a *hell*. Okay? A living hell.


Fan of Britches

Squashing Machine posted:

It also contrasts with the "what the hell are you doing?" lady and the three's sort of embarrassed apology. That's funny. You almost killed someone because you're a bunch of overgrown kids and your response is completely inadequate. In GB2016, she would've been screaming and running around and the proton beam would've chased her around the corridor, and the entire time Wiig and McCarthy would be shouting TURN IT OFF!!! WHO TAUGHT YOU HOW TO SHOOT, ALEXANDER HAMILTON????

Also compare Peter's sarcastic "Successful test!" quip and Ray's oblivious "I guess so" response to the reactions in GB'16.

It's really weird picking individual gags from GB'84 and seeing whether they repeat them in GB'16 and how often. They had another untested-equipment-let's-hope-it-doesn't-kill-us scene earlier in the film and they reeeeally laboured the "Oops, hope you don't die" aspect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl4bRwYs1tI
They also repeat the "He slimed me!" gag which they'd already done earlier in the film.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



To me, you can tell all you need to about each film by comparing and contrasting the openings of both. GB2016 is this long drawn out scene of bad improv and pratfalls while the movie trips over itself at the starting line to yell SEE?!!? IT’S A COMEDY. GET IT?

GB’84 at least has the confidence to let itself be spooky and atmospheric, things that the reboot not only lacks, but seems utterly uninterested in attempting - despite it being a necessary core component of the franchise’s DNA.

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

Crook County

Squashing Machine posted:

It also contrasts with the "what the hell are you doing?" lady and the three's sort of embarrassed apology. That's funny. You almost killed someone because you're a bunch of overgrown kids and your response is completely inadequate. In GB2016, she would've been screaming and running around and the proton beam would've chased her around the corridor, and the entire time Wiig and McCarthy would be shouting TURN IT OFF!!! WHO TAUGHT YOU HOW TO SHOOT, ALEXANDER HAMILTON????

The original Ghostbusters almost kill that maid in the hotel and apologize profusely. Kristen Wiig straight up murders Bill Murray's character and it's played for laughs.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



The tone of GB2016 honestly makes more sense if you view it as a live action reboot of The Real Ghostbusters, rather than the 1984 film. If carries about the same stakes and consequences as a Saturday morning cartoon, while eschewing nearly any real horror elements.

But the again TRGB had The Bogeyman, which was a lot more impactful than anything in GB2016, so it even fails at that.

Squashing Machine
Jul 5, 2005
ASK ME WHY NOT HITTING ON THE STARBUCKS BARISTA MAKES YOU A JOYLESS PRIG



ruddiger posted:

The original Ghostbusters almost kill that maid in the hotel and apologize profusely. Kristen Wiig straight up murders Bill Murray's character and it's played for laughs.

It's funny, I'd describe the original as a darker film, tone-wise, but no one dies. The worst thing that can happen is you get turned into a dog or have 500 gallons of marshmallow fluff dropped on your head. Though that fluff must've been pretty hot, maybe Peck died. Anyway, yeah, the new Ghostbusters kill one guy and watch another die without any real reaction on their part, they're pretty much sociopaths.

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003


Yams Fan

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Also compare Peter's sarcastic "Successful test!" quip and Ray's oblivious "I guess so" response to the reactions in GB'16.

It's really weird picking individual gags from GB'84 and seeing whether they repeat them in GB'16 and how often. They had another untested-equipment-let's-hope-it-doesn't-kill-us scene earlier in the film and they reeeeally laboured the "Oops, hope you don't die" aspect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl4bRwYs1tI
They also repeat the "He slimed me!" gag which they'd already done earlier in the film.

Really the only thing that worked for me in that entire scene was the "do you know your iron level" line, even Wiig's response didn't work. Watching these clips, it's like there's a lot of little things that could work, but fall 100% flat because they're not playing it straight.

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003


Yams Fan

Fart City posted:

The tone of GB2016 honestly makes more sense if you view it as a live action reboot of The Real Ghostbusters, rather than the 1984 film. If carries about the same stakes and consequences as a Saturday morning cartoon, while eschewing nearly any real horror elements.

But the again TRGB had The Bogeyman, which was a lot more impactful than anything in GB2016, so it even fails at that.

poo poo, that episode where Slimer ran away and nearly got absorbed into a giant ghost gave me nightmares.

Squashing Machine
Jul 5, 2005
ASK ME WHY NOT HITTING ON THE STARBUCKS BARISTA MAKES YOU A JOYLESS PRIG



It sounds like they're reading the scene directions instead of their lines. They're just narrating everything that's already happening visually.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



The only good joke in GB2016 is Hemsworth’s saxophone headshots, and that’s because it had to be set up and staged.

OctoberCountry
Oct 9, 2012


Fart City posted:

The tone of GB2016 honestly makes more sense if you view it as a live action reboot of The Real Ghostbusters, rather than the 1984 film.

Yeah but closer to the later seasons when Dave Coulier was voicing Venkman

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

Only dead doggos
follow the stream.



Fart City posted:

The tone of GB2016 honestly makes more sense if you view it as a live action reboot of The Real Ghostbusters, rather than the 1984 film. If carries about the same stakes and consequences as a Saturday morning cartoon, while eschewing nearly any real horror elements.

But the again TRGB had The Bogeyman, which was a lot more impactful than anything in GB2016, so it even fails at that.

No GB2016 joke is as good as this IMO:

Peter: Anything that looks like Godzilla wearing an octopus hat shouldn't be hard to find.

Squashing Machine posted:

It sounds like they're reading the scene directions instead of their lines. They're just narrating everything that's already happening visually.

Sarcastically, I'm in charge.

Splint Chesthair
Dec 27, 2004



OctoberCountry posted:

Yeah but closer to the later seasons when Dave Coulier was voicing Venkman

Complaining about cartoons is Peak Goon, I know, but the jump from Lorenzo Music's deadpan to Coulier just doing 75% Carl from "Caddyshack" was jarring.

MrJacobs
Sep 15, 2008


Liberal Idiot posted:

Complaining about cartoons is Peak Goon, I know, but the jump from Lorenzo Music's deadpan to Coulier just doing 75% Carl from "Caddyshack" was jarring.

It wouldn't have been bad if it wasn't right when the overall writing went from decent/pretty good for an 80s kids show to terrible/par for most 80s kids shows.

Hockles
Dec 25, 2007

Resident of Camp Blood
Crystal Lake



Fart City posted:

The tone of GB2016 honestly makes more sense if you view it as a live action reboot of The Real Ghostbusters




Hmm, yep.

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Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

The first few seasons of The Real Ghostbusters did have some very spooky moments though. The Boogeyman and Samhain didn't seem so goofy to me when I was a kid.

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