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CPColin posted:In September 2017 was the aforementioned stint at my county's Probation department. They were using C# and no automated tests. Well, actually, they did have test cases defined, but they were using them as a way to script maintenance tasks, as Visual Studio would put a handy Execute button next to them. the conceptual misunderstanding of "using unit tests as a task runner" goes so far off the end of the  scale it wraps around to almost being charming. it's something you only get from career 9-5 programmers who never had an ounce of curiosity about best practices
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Dec 14, 2025 19:57
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i kinda love that. we're not using this whole system that exists, but there's this other thing we need to do, what if we just used that system for it? it's redneck software engineering
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Dec 14, 2025 20:02
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a bright eyed new grad shows up and adds a CI pipeline which runs tests every time a PR is opened. prod is demolished by a pile of side effects
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Dec 14, 2025 20:02
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could have just got them into the Vim IDE plugin ecosystem and preserved their dignity a bit
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Dec 14, 2025 21:32
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Subjunctive posted:could have just got them into the Vim IDE plugin ecosystem and preserved their dignity a bit My team lead back then, who is again my team lead now, immediately installed a Vim keybindings plugin for Eclipse. Whereas I'm normal and simply set IntelliJ IDEA's keybindings to act like Eclipse's, instead of learning new ones.
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Dec 14, 2025 22:11
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there are excellent vim emulation plugins for all other editors, while the emacs equivalents tend to be incomplete and poorly maintained if at all. I’m sure this says something profound about the editor wars, but I’m not sure what. (vim won because its bindings are more popular? emacs won because emacs users don’t need ides? vim won because its fans are better at writing plugins? emacs won because its users retain more neuroplasticity and are able to teach themselves new shortcut keys? everyone loses because we’re still touching computers? who can say.)
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Dec 14, 2025 23:18
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CPColin posted:They were using C# and no automated tests. Well, actually, they did have test cases defined, but they were using them as a way to script maintenance tasks, as Visual Studio would put a handy Execute button next to them. lol what the gently caress
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Dec 14, 2025 23:42
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Soricidus posted:there are excellent vim emulation plugins for all other editors, while the emacs equivalents tend to be incomplete and poorly maintained if at all. I’m sure this says something profound about the editor wars, but I’m not sure what. none of this poo poo matters except to those it does, deeply, painfully
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Dec 15, 2025 03:48
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every vim emulation mode i've tried have always been lacking something that made it a deal breaker. but this was years ago so maybe they've improved?
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Dec 15, 2025 04:52
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on one hand i want to get into emacs. on the other hand i do not have the neuroplasticity to remember all those loving keybinds, let alone if i set up some of my own
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Dec 15, 2025 05:14
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don't believe the people who say vim/emacs is going to make you some kind of hyper efficient superprogrammer. that's a smokescreen. the real reason to use those editors is if you just happen to have the right brainworms where an obtuse tui/keybind scheme is immensely gratifying to you normal people will use an ide, with a mouse for a lot of the functionality and shortcut bindings for just the things they do most often, and the difference in a day's "efficiency" will be measurable in seconds
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Dec 15, 2025 07:32
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also those seconds are more than offset by a lifetime of twiddling plugins and configs
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Dec 15, 2025 07:33
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and explaining to people how to exit your artisanal text editor
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Dec 15, 2025 10:02
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Chalks posted:and explaining to people how to exit your artisanal text editor unplug the power cord
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Dec 15, 2025 10:17
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Why would people be leaving their editors?
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Dec 15, 2025 11:49
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Antigravitas posted:Why would people be leaving their editors? never need to exit if you just dont open it in the first place
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Dec 15, 2025 16:21
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well-read undead posted:don't believe the people who say vim/emacs is going to make you some kind of hyper efficient superprogrammer. that's a smokescreen. the real reason to use those editors is if you just happen to have the right brainworms where an obtuse tui/keybind scheme is immensely gratifying to you no but you see you can go down 7 lines at a time if you type 7j, if you know that the line you want to be on is (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7) lines below your current line
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Dec 15, 2025 19:44
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well-read undead posted:don't believe the people who say vim/emacs is going to make you some kind of hyper efficient superprogrammer. that's a smokescreen. the real reason to use those editors is if you just happen to have the right brainworms where an obtuse tui/keybind scheme is immensely gratifying to you 
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Dec 15, 2025 20:00
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Wheany posted:no but you see you can go down 7 lines at a time if you type 7j, if you know that the line you want to be on is (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7) lines below your current line just toggle relative line numbering so everyone asks what the gently caress is going on anytime they look at your screen
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Dec 15, 2025 21:02
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emacs is awesome. i think of it less as a text editor and more as a terminal workflow scripting tool. it’s nice to have my email inbox in emacs, for example, where i have key bindings to raise a GitHub issue on the email, or parse the PR number and clone a new local copy on that branch with all touched files open, or copy the subject and metadata to my running org-mode buffer with a one week deadline TODO, or parse this specific table from a vendor that emails me weekly pricing and forward it to a slack group with some transforms added, etc. i could technically migrate more and more of this to actual automations (and sometimes i do), but it’s a nice middle ground between manually doing a bunch of stuff and running a full fledged production process. i prefer vim key bindings, but evil mode is good enough to suffer through given the other benefits of working in emacs.
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Dec 16, 2025 11:45
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I like vim. Also I use a three-layer GNU Screen setup with separate hotkey binds for each layer which makes it efficient for me to jump between 10 or so different tasks across approximately 25 machines. It's a lot easier to explain if you've seen the movie Inception.
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Dec 16, 2025 12:33
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hbag posted:on one hand i want to get into emacs. on the other hand i do not have the neuroplasticity to remember all those loving keybinds, let alone if i set up some of my own It's worth it for Org Mode alone. You can get up and going fast by grabbing an off the shelf config like Doom and then doing little tweaks to it if desired which is what I'm using right now. Also you can just M-x fuzzy search any command just like sublime text so picking up keybinds can be a gradual process.
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Dec 16, 2025 13:03
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ehh, people keep touting emacs features like org-mode (and magit, say) and I’ve never really managed to get anything out of those. it’s great as a file browser though, and for scripted text editing. having the whole editor just be a big repl with a text display area is pretty convenient. shame the scripting language is a rather antiquated lisp dialect, but it could be a lot worse.
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Dec 16, 2025 13:20
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i don't want to spend more time than is absolutely necessary janitoring my editor
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Dec 16, 2025 23:25
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redleader posted:i don't want to spend more time than is absolutely necessary janitoring my editor The big thing w/ emacs freaks is that its literally not an "editor". While I understand the desire to have a single app you could run in a term and swap around between tasks was a thing it did well at one time, never really had an issue using vTTYs even before "vim" was a thing.
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Dec 16, 2025 23:35
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eight megs and constantly swapping xD
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Dec 16, 2025 23:37
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Ava posted:emacs is awesome. i think of it less as a text editor and more as a terminal workflow scripting tool. I think of it more as a red flag
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Dec 16, 2025 23:47
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it's more than an editor. it's a way of life, a philosophy
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Dec 16, 2025 23:48
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i think emacs and vi are silly choices in 2025 but back when emacs was written it was super good
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Dec 16, 2025 23:51
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rotor posted:i think emacs and vi are silly choices in 2025 but back when emacs was written it was super good I feel "silly choices" is pretty subjective. For full blown IDEs, I'd tend to agree; not to suggest neither COULD do it, but I find less value in setting myself up to sit at a terminal for hours on end writing code. On device/instance/whatever editing, they both have their place but lol if you're installing loving emacs on edge devices.
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Dec 16, 2025 23:59
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drunk mutt posted:I feel "silly choices" is pretty subjective. For full blown IDEs, I'd tend to agree; not to suggest neither COULD do it, but I find less value in setting myself up to sit at a terminal for hours on end writing code. silly choices for a programmers editor i guess is what i mean. vi is great for when youre rshelled in somewhere and gotta edit a file real quick
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Dec 17, 2025 00:08
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yes vi would be a dumb choice now. youd use vim or nwovim
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Dec 17, 2025 00:31
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drunk mutt posted:but lol if you're installing loving emacs on edge devices. yes, that would be extremely stupid, when you can install emacs on your desktop and use tramp to connect to everything else
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Dec 17, 2025 00:34
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necrotic posted:yes vi would be a dumb choice now. youd use vim or nwovim 
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Dec 17, 2025 00:35
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Soricidus posted:yes, that would be extremely stupid, when you can install emacs on your desktop and use tramp to connect to everything else God, tramp is so good. Even works with your local LSP setup.
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Dec 17, 2025 01:02
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began using rider on my main pc for the project and for whatever reason rider seems to think there is no project file when there very clearly is. it is asking me to "edit build configuration" and when i tell it its a .NET project it asks for me for the project. i go to select the .csproj project file. it is not in the dropdown. "no projects to run". gently caress off
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Dec 17, 2025 01:28
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christ finally
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Dec 17, 2025 01:34
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hbag posted:christ finally -- The Three Magi on Christmas Day
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Dec 17, 2025 01:40
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there is a curses wrapper for C# that i want to use but the readme file's formatting is all hosed up. i would submit a PR to fix it but also it hasnt been updated in 10 years so somehow i doubt it would get merged
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Dec 17, 2025 01:51
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hbag posted:there is a curses wrapper for C# that i want to use but the readme file's formatting is all hosed up. i would submit a PR to fix it but also it hasnt been updated in 10 years so somehow i doubt it would get merged
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Dec 17, 2025 01:59
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